Mavs play a good game with Kyrie without Luka

[90sgoat]

Role players all having really good games :confusedshrug:

Of course this team wouldn't be able to beat any worthwhile teams in the playoffs with Luka, but it really is obvious that Luka dominating the ball so much is demotivating and suboptimal, as 3ball would put it.

Also, players don't hustle on defense when their leader doesn't even play defense.

Luka is not in the running for MVP despite the stats and unlike Embiid, who was in a similar situation, he likely won't get
anyone to lobby for him.

[ImKobe]

They beat the #1 Suns a few years ago when Luka wasn't this good of a shooter, plus I believe the current version of Kyrie is still better than what Brunson was then, and I like their role guys more.

Defense is an issue, but they did have a bunch of injuries and it's still early in the season so I'll wait to see what it looks like around ASB when teams really start trying. We've had good/great defensive teams around stars like Kyrie(Celtics)/Curry/Harden so I don't think that's the main issue.

[FultzNationRISE]

Role players all having really good games :confusedshrug:

Of course this team wouldn't be able to beat any worthwhile teams in the playoffs without Luka, but it really is obvious that Luka dominating the ball so much is demotivating and suboptimal, as 3ball would put it.

Also, players don't hustle on defense when their leader doesn't even play defense.

Luka is not in the running for MVP despite the stats and unlike Embiid, who was in a similar situation, he likely won't get
anyone to lobby for him.

I agree with this, altho I would also caution against using a 1 game sample size. Every team except Lebron’s wins games without their star here or there.

I think Luka did start the season playing more uptempo, but with injuries to Irving, Kleber, and other guys at various times he kinda reverted back to ball pounding. Im giving him the benefit of the doubt that it’s because he’s playing with fairly inexperienced guys (jayden hardy, derrick lively, derrick jones junior, I mean whoever even heard of these guys) and hes trying to keep them afloat.

But I think youre right the Mavs will be at their most dangerous when the ball moves earlier in the possession and they play up tempo. Not on every possession necessarily, but a good mix. When theyre healthy I think theyre more apt to do that.

[BarberSchool]

Fully healthy Mavs squad with two rim protectors (Lively and Maxi) with both Luka and Kyrie is gonna be a nightmare 7-game series for any western conference team besides Denver.

[90sgoat]

I agree with this, altho I would also caution against using a 1 game sample size. Every team except Lebron’s wins games without their star here or there.

I think Luka did start the season playing more uptempo, but with injuries to Irving, Kleber, and other guys at various times he kinda reverted back to ball pounding. Im giving him the benefit of the doubt that it’s because he’s playing with fairly inexperienced guys (jayden hardy, derrick lively, derrick jones junior, I mean whoever even heard of these guys) and hes trying to keep them afloat.

But I think youre right the Mavs will be at their most dangerous when the ball moves earlier in the possession and they play up tempo. Not on every possession necessarily, but a good mix. When theyre healthy I think theyre more apt to do that.

Luka needs to take a page from MJ and learn how second 3-peat MJ used to sit back in the first half, letting role players get going, then second half, takes over.

I remember often with Bulls, they'd deliberately set up plays for Luc Longley in the first quarter, simply because, well, feed the big man and he works on defense. Likewise with Kukoc who was often the main guy in games and then MJ just got his in the flow.

Ball dominance simply isn't as effective. Luka really needs to learn how to score off ball.

[ArbitraryWater]

OP thinks Mavs beating the Blazers at home without luka is some kind of sign

[FultzNationRISE]

Luka needs to take a page from MJ and learn how second 3-peat MJ used to sit back in the first half, letting role players get going, then second half, takes over.

I remember often with Bulls, they'd deliberately set up plays for Luc Longley in the first quarter, simply because, well, feed the big man and he works on defense. Likewise with Kukoc who was often the main guy in games and then MJ just got his in the flow.

Ball dominance simply isn't as effective. Luka really needs to learn how to score off ball.

I dont think it's a matter of learning, he's just not physically built to do it.

He cant shake defenders running around off backscreens like Reggie Miller or Klay Thompson. He's just too naturally heavy, even when he's in shape. And he's not finishing lobs over the defense like Jason Richardson. It's simply not within his physical skillset.

His only value is going to be on-ball, and theres obviously many times throughout the game he's a big advantage for them to have. But he also needs to make sure he pushes the ball ahead enough to keep guys moving and in rhythm rather than just standing watching him, even if his only off-ball participation in those cases is to trail the play and spot up for three like everyone else.

[90sgoat]

I dont think it's a matter of learning, he's just not physically built to do it.

He cant shake defenders running around off backscreens like Reggie Miller or Klay Thompson. He's just too naturally heavy, even when he's in shape. And he's not finishing lobs over the defense like Jason Richardson. It's simply not within his physical skillset.

His only value is going to be on-ball, and theres obviously many times throughout the game he's a big advantage for them to have. But he also needs to make sure he pushes the ball ahead enough to keep guys moving and in rhythm rather than just standing watching him, even if his only off-ball participation in those cases is to trail the play and spot up for three like everyone else.

He can save some energy by being a decoy and spot up corner shooter.

There's no reason he can't stand in the corner while Kyrie is cooking.

Then spend that energy on defense, which is really the actual issue.

[ImKobe]

He can save some energy by being a decoy and spot up corner shooter.

There's no reason he can't stand in the corner while Kyrie is cooking.

Then spend that energy on defense, which is really the actual issue.

Yeah like Luka's going to be a lockdown defender, just because he has a bit less to do offensively lol. Why isn't Kyrie elite on D then if Luka's carrying the offense? What about the rest of the guys?

Defense is a team effort.

[Phoenix]

Best way to get Luka off-ball is playing him more on the block. I believe last year he was #1 in post scoring, and he obviously has the complimenting passing skills to be effective. The only other Mavs player you'd trust to manage the ballhandling a good bit in relief of Luka is Kyrie but he's more scorer than facilitator.

Like Fultz said, he's not a Reggie Miller/Steph type who's gonna be running around all game off-screens. Those guys have/had legendary motors.

[90sgoat]

Great game now against Minny.

Kai is playing big.

Some playoff atmosphere here.

[90sgoat]

Kyrie is the best 4th quarter closer in the game.

[SATAN]

Nice turnover Toody :oldlol:

[Axe]

Another scheduled loss?

[Xiao Yao You]

Another scheduled loss?

I'd love to think you aren't that stupid but pretty sure you actually are

[SATAN]

any big can do it!

[90sgoat]

This is what the playoffs are going to look like.

A lot of hustle from Derrick Jones Jr., Grant, Green etc and Kyrie being the closer so that Luka don't gass out in the 4th.

This Mavs team can win against almost anyone, at home at least.

[Xiao Yao You]

This is what the playoffs are going to look like.

A lot of hustle from Derrick Jones Jr., Grant, Green etc and Kyrie being the closer so that Luka don't gass out in the 4th.

This Mavs team can win against almost anyone, at home at least.

currently not in the playoffs

[90sgoat]

currently not in the playoffs

Playoff intensity tonight.

[Axe]

I'd love to think you aren't that stupid but pretty sure you actually are
Stupid enough to inadvertently attract your attention? :confusedshrug: :roll:

[90sgoat]

Another impressive game from the Luka-less Mavs.

I wonder what he thinks seeing his teammates clearly enjoy playing with him on the bench.

[ArbitraryWater]

Another impressive game from the Luka-less Mavs.

I wonder what he thinks seeing his teammates clearly enjoy playing with him on the bench.

Youre trying to say they dont enjoy playing when he is on court? :rolleyes:

[90sgoat]

Youre trying to say they dont enjoy playing when he is on court? :rolleyes:

I think Mavs have been a poorly constructed team for 6 years and Luka is still too immature to play a winning brand of basketball.

[ImKobe]

I think Mavs have been a poorly constructed team for 6 years and Luka is still too immature to play a winning brand of basketball.

Gotta take injuries into account too. Luka was forced to do everything with guys being out to keep up in a lot of these games tbh. I do want to see more of this Kyrie while Luka's also out there but we haven't even had the chance to see these guys in the POs yet so they gotta be healthy enough to make it there first. We also saw signs of this last year when Kyrie got on the team & Luka was out, they had some great games w/o Doncic then as well.

Health is key here. I have no doubt that they'll get it right in the POs, Luka's smart enough to give Kyrie the ball more to save his own legs and for his team to do better. Both need to be on the court for that to happen tho. Can't blame Luka for running up the numbers & dominating the ball in the stretch prior when Kai and like half the team was out.

[tontoz]

So when Luka drops 40 and they win without Kyrie he is being selfish but when Kyrie drops 40 without Luka it means....what exactly?

[tpols]

Kyrie would've easily had a 50 point game if the Knicks weren't hard doubling him @ halfcourt the whole 2nd half.

But he beat them with his passing ~ 10 dimes and 44 points. Master class performance against a Thibs defense.

[tpols]

So when Luka drops 40 and they win without Kyrie he is being selfish but when Kyrie drops 40 without Luka it means....what exactly?

People expect more out of Luka because he's the better player. But kyrie doesn't pound the rock as much and teams actually hard double him. Idk why they don't double luka.

[tontoz]

People expect more out of Luka because he's the better player. But kyrie doesn't pound the rock as much and teams actually hard double him. Idk why they don't double luka.

:roll:

Luka is one of the league leaders in getting doubled.


All of the data in the tweet was comprised using nba.com.

Here are the 15 most double teamed players and their Team points per possession when they get double teamed, In order of highest percentage of possessions double teamed:

Giannis, 32.7%, 1.26 Team PPP

Embiid, 32%, 1.05 Team PPP

Luka, 31.1%, 1.21 Team PPP

Shai, 29.5%, 1.14 Team PPP

Booker, 28.4%, 1.25 Team PPP

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zm2ys8/nba_university_15_most_double_teamed_players_in/

[tpols]

:roll:

Luka is one of the league leaders in getting doubled.



https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zm2ys8/nba_university_15_most_double_teamed_players_in/

I wonder if it's always been like that. When I watched him in the playoffs he always seemed to be on an island with his defender.

Kyrie was getting hard doubled last night though. A lot of you guys said he couldn't pass but he had 10 dimes and the game winning assist as well.

[tontoz]

I wonder if it's always been like that. When I watched him in the playoffs he always seemed to be on an island with his defender.

Kyrie was getting hard doubled last night though. A lot of you guys said he couldn't pass but he had 10 dimes and the game winning assist as well.


Nobody in the league can guard Luka. He torched the Clippers in the playoffs 2 years in a row even though they have Kawhi and PG13.

I was listening to the Zach Lowe podcast not long ago and he said Luka was the most doubled player in the league. I don't know where to look to verify that but it's obvious watching the games.

[90sgoat]

Kyrie also hustles recently.

Fights for rebounds, jumps after loose balls.

Luka's lack of effort on defense seems to me to be highly demotivating and bad leadership.

[tpols]

Kyrie also hustles recently.

Fights for rebounds, jumps after loose balls.

Luka's lack of effort on defense seems to me to be highly demotivating and bad leadership.

True.

I remember him stripping Rudy the other day in crunchtime.

[ShawkFactory]

People expect more out of Luka because he's the better player. But kyrie doesn't pound the rock as much and teams actually hard double him. Idk why they don't double luka.

I think it's pretty similar to why teams didn't double Lebron. He has otherworldly anticipation and passing skills so sending a double more often than not will give the Mavs an advantage on offense with your defense now on its heels. Better off just trying to man up and dealing with the strong possibility of him giving you 40.

[90sgoat]

If Luka doesn't want to change, then he needs to surround himself with players like Kyle Korver, Ryan Anderson, Alex Caruso, Kevin Love etc (race incidental).

He can't have Kyrie, Green, Hardy and a bunch of younger players who want to make a career, because those guys are not ready to go stand in the corner.

Personally I think Luka bounces or asks out as soon as he can, then probably goes to Lakers and continues not winning as much as he should.

[tpols]

Oh and btw he owned Brunson H2H. Seemed personal. Obviously on a different tier of talent. They had OG on him with help and still got carved up.


https://youtu.be/R_LYXg5auQg?si=-ePZ1zSXPdhFFP7X

Sick pass @ 1:13 btw.

[Kblaze8855]

Yeah I saw Those highlights, and that pass maybe an hour ago, but hadn’t got around to posting it. Kyrie highlights belong over Classical Music like the old Looney Tunes.

[Manny98]

Kyrie playing the best ball of his career, you love to see it

Dominating on BOTH ends, he belongs in the all defensive team with the effort he's been putting on that :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

I think Mavs have been a poorly constructed team for 6 years and Luka is still too immature to play a winning brand of basketball.

Okay, what does that have to do with this comment:

"I wonder what he thinks seeing his teammates clearly enjoy playing with him on the bench."

his teammates dont not enjoy playing when he is on the court :lol

Youre better than that

[warriorfan]

maybe the most under appreciated player in the league

[Axe]

Oh and btw he owned Brunson H2H. Seemed personal. Obviously on a different tier of talent. They had OG on him with help and still got carved up.


https://youtu.be/R_LYXg5auQg?si=-ePZ1zSXPdhFFP7X

Sick pass @ 1:13 btw.
Too bad he doesn't play like this always.

[Xiao Yao You]

Kyrie playing the best ball of his career, you love to see it

Dominating on BOTH ends, he belongs in the all defensive team with the effort he's been putting on that :applause:

:roll:

[ShawkFactory]

maybe the most under appreciated player in the league

I think he's rated or appreciated right as he should be. He's pretty widely recognized as one of the most talented and skilled scorers/ball-handlers we've seen.

But he also can be streaky and doesn't bring the little things to the table on a consistent basis, and doesn't bring it mentally every night.

Overall that makes him...Kyrie? He's fairly unique and it's known.

[ILLsmak]

Oh and btw he owned Brunson H2H. Seemed personal. Obviously on a different tier of talent. They had OG on him with help and still got carved up.


https://youtu.be/R_LYXg5auQg?si=-ePZ1zSXPdhFFP7X

Sick pass @ 1:13 btw.

I dunno why people hate on Kyrie. I do think he quit on the Cs which was foul, and maybe he's quit on other people, but dude is something else. I wanna see him get another shot.

Def pouting and quitting on your team is wack tho.

-Smak

[ImKobe]

I dunno why people hate on Kyrie. I do think he quit on the Cs which was foul, and maybe he's quit on other people, but dude is something else. I wanna see him get another shot.

Def pouting and quitting on your team is wack tho.

-Smak

His teammates didn't want him there, and from what we've heard from him after it seems like he just didn't like to play in Boston. The whole team sucked in that series tbh. The young guys thought they deserved to have a bigger role because they made that ECF run without him, so the chemistry was fked regardless.

[imdaman99]

With Luka out, I was afraid kyrie was gonna blow up and shit on the knicks because he knew he would actually get to run the team and take as many shots as he wanted. Of course Hardaway ate as well. Kyrie is pro palestine so he's got my support :applause:

[NBAGOAT]

do mavs want 3rd guy in siakam is the question now.

[ImKobe]

do mavs want 3rd guy in siakam is the question now.

Probably not from what I read. The fit just doesn't make sense that much offensively anyway either, and they'd be stupid to give up any of the young talent for half a season of Pascal. I don't think they'd want to give him the max and be capped out with just the 3 guys.

[NBAGOAT]

Probably not from what I read. The fit just doesn't make sense that much offensively anyway either, and they'd be stupid to give up any of the young talent for half a season of Pascal. I don't think they'd want to give him the max and be capped out with just the 3 guys.

makes sense, dont need a 3rd high usage guy offensively. reverse is he can help their defense and would be useful when luka or kyrie sit. also dallas doesnt have to give up much young talent josh green at most imo

[Manny98]

Hung 42 in a win against the red hot pelicans

https://i.postimg.cc/yx8Sgydb/anigif-enhanced-7212-1404333418-36.gif