Who do you shoot on general principle?

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401090436380119.gif


^
If you don’t get that reference let me know so you can be dead to me going forward.

in the next few years, a number of players may be holding out for Supermax money. Which of them are most likely to generate such a reaction from you?



With as many people getting deemed and eligible as it looks like it’s going to happen? Bam is going to sneak onto an all NBA team now that it’s just front and back court. If he does he he’ll be eligible for something like $245 million this summer.

Donovan Mitchell stays healthy for two years and bets on himself? He will be eligible for $375 million extension around 2026.

Tatum is definitely about to get 310 million.

Siakam currently is only eligible for about 205 million but if he sneaks onto an all NBA team that goes up to 305 million.

brandon Ingram wants one but he has never been healthy enough and now now with the games played restriction he might never get it.

Lauri and Jalen Brunson would already be all NBA last year if this year’s rules applied, then which would make them eligible soon.

Taking out all these often injured stars is going to make a lot of teams have to make this decision.




Tatum aside, which of the guys shooting for a Supermax are you most likely to break and give it to?

I might actually say Bam, even if his number was as high as the other guys.

Siakam?

Gotta shoot him on general principle.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell

[elementally morale]

I'll give you a name, you shoot the MFer in the head and we share the money Vincent.

[tontoz]

Shooting is a bit harsh but I would have no problem letting a.guy walk if I didn't think he was worth a supermax.

If you have to think about whether or not they are worth it then that is a sign they probably aren't.

Jules was one of my favorite characters ever lol. That movie really launched Jackson and resurrected Travolta.

[Kblaze8855]

Shooting is a bit harsh but I would have no problem letting a.guy walk if I didn't think he was worth a supermax.

If you have to think about whether or not they are worth it then that is a sign they probably aren't.

i’m not sure how much sense it makes to let anybody walk these days. It’s been proven 100 times over every deal people call unmovable gets traded easily because there are so many giant contracts to use to match salary. Long as teams are desperate to make a splash building a flashy named super team overnight somebody capped out is going to take an All-Star off your hands and give you picks or young guys in the process.

But asking “Who would you pay and keep and who would you pay and trade” Wouldn’t let me use one of my trademark unrelated references which I’m sure you have all realized by now is the true reason for 90% of my topics.

Gotta add a little razzle dazzle.

[elementally morale]

Shooting is a bit harsh but I would have no problem letting a.guy walk if I didn't think he was worth a supermax.

If you have to think about whether or not they are worth it then that is a sign they probably aren't.

Is anybody worth 300+ million dollars for being an athlete? Or even 10 million a year? I know I know... if the market pays for it you are worth it... but it seems wrong.

[Kblaze8855]

Is anybody worth 300+ million dollars for being an athlete? Or even 10 million a year? I know I know... if the market pays for it you are worth it... but it seems wrong.

it’s a simple as giving it to the Millionaires in labor Or the billionaires in ownership. There is no third option. Not unless you think a business is going to reduce revenue because they think some other sector of society deserves it more and it will somehow filter to them if they don’t accept it.

It’s annoying to people with regular jobs to think of millionaires as labor, but it is what it is.

[elementally morale]

it’s a simple as giving it to the Millionaires in labor Or the billionaires in ownership. There is no third option.

I get it. Makes sense. Feels wrong. It doesn't make sense that it feels wrong. And I'm giving them this money when I pay for my League Pass. Which in itself feels like the right move and it's not even expensive. So I'm in a loop of craziness here. Anyway, do NOT give Siakam 300 million.

[tontoz]

Is anybody worth 300+ million dollars for being an athlete? Or even 10 million a year? I know I know... if the market pays for it you are worth it... but it seems wrong.



You can't think in terms of real world dollars you just have to think in relative terms. Relative to other players are they worth it?

I felt at the time and still feel that signing beal to that.contract was a bad move. They spent another year in irrelevance, got a handful of pick swaps and now are stuck with another awful contract, Jordan Poole. He is one of the worst players in the league making $30 million/ yr.:facepalm

[elementally morale]

You can't think in terms of real world dollars you just have to think in relative terms. Relative to other players are they worth it?

I felt at the time and still feel that signing beal to that.contract was a bad move. They spent another year in irrelevance, got a handful of pick swaps and now are stuck with another awful contract, Jordan Poole. He is one of the worst players in the league making $30 million/ yr.:facepalm

The Wiggins signing I didn't get. He doesn't seem to care enough for me as a team to go the extra mile for him. And he isn't that good. As for Beal, I wouldn't have wanted him on the Suns for free. Seems redundant. He could help a team but Phoenix is not that team.

[Kblaze8855]

You can't think in terms of real world dollars you just have to think in relative terms. Relative to other players are they worth it?

I felt at the time and still feel that signing beal to that.contract was a bad move. They spent another year in irrelevance, got a handful of pick swaps and now are stuck with another awful contract, Jordan Poole. He is one of the worst players in the league making $30 million/ yr.:facepalm


Your emotion clouding your judgment is the only reason you even think Jordan Poole’s contract matters. Without his contract they could dip as low as $48 million below the salary floor next season. Not cap. The floor. Meaning, they would have to pay the money owed him to the same players at the end of the season in a check. Jordan Poole disappears in a puff of smoke, and the wizards don’t save a penny. And if he makes the team worse and you’re trying to rebuild wouldn’t you want him there playing big minutes?

It is doing literally zero harm. Your objections are all based on feelings not true issues.

your team simply does not have enough salary for it to even matter with anybody on it gets paid. The salary floor next year is like 15 million higher than the payroll for the KD and curry Warriors. You’re on pace to be 100 million below the cap during his 3 years. If you decide to stay bare bones with just draft picks and what you have? The cap is eating his whole deal. The increases in revenue are absorbing his raises. Beating them out by a lot actually. Relative to the cap he’s going to be making a lot less in the next few years while you have to find contracts to merely reach the salary floor.

These bigass numbers are of absolutely no real world consequence.

[FultzNationRISE]

AD will be a free agent in 2025, I wouldnt pay that dude a Big Kahunaburger to be a franchise centerpiece or sidekick.

#LebronDeservesBETTER.

[tontoz]

Your emotion clouding your judgment is the only reason you even think Jordan Poole’s contract matters. Without his contract they could dip as low as $48 million below the salary floor next season. Not cap. The floor. Meaning, they would have to pay the money owed him to the same players at the end of the season in a check. Jordan Poole disappears in a puff of smoke, and the wizards don’t save a penny. And if he makes the team worse and you’re trying to rebuild wouldn’t you want him there playing big minutes?

It is doing literally zero harm. Your objections are all based on feelings not true issues.

your team simply does not have enough salary for it to even matter with anybody on it gets paid. The salary floor next year is like 15 million higher than the payroll for the KD and curry Warriors. You’re on pace to be 100 million below the cap during his 3 years. If you decide to stay bare bones with just draft picks and what you have? The cap is eating his whole deal. The increases in revenue are absorbing his raises. Beating them out by a lot actually. Relative to the cap he’s going to be making a lot less in the next few years while you have to find contracts to merely reach the salary floor.

These bigass numbers are of absolutely no real world consequence.


They could use that money to sign a young player that doesn't suck. Now they are stuck for 4 years paying $30 million to a garbage can. Paying big money to guys who suck makes no sense in a salary cap league.

Poole is literally one of the worst players in the league.

It is funny that you are trying to project what the cap will be in several years when in fact you have no clue. It is anyone's guess what the cap will look like after next season.

[Kblaze8855]

Go read the concept of cap smoothing and what was already agreed to to avoid another situation like 2016 when it all hit it once and the cap jumped by too much. They are increasing it, yearly by predetermined amount, and rolling the extra forward into future years. This is already been determined for the near future. The cap is factually going to go up. It’s actually been increasing by more than I was saying it would when we first started these conversations.

again, I am talking facts while you’re talking about feelings. The salary floor is a real thing. The built-in cap increases are real. The cap is factually going up by far more than his contract so his relative pay is going down and they need dozens of millions of more dollars just to reach their minimum payments going forward.

If I am wrong about anything, it’s under estimating the increases because of the extra portion being rolled forward on top of the agreed-upon 10%. Whatever the digital and tv rights deal is it will absolutely be bigger than the last one, which is why they built in the cap smoothing. To keep it from downright exploding, they have agreed to a gradual increase While rolling the extra down the line.

Even with poole and his relatively small contract that you think is gigantic because you have no perspective they have to find dozens of millions of extra dollars to pay somebody even on top of the draft picks coming.

The wizards are scorched earth you just can’t see it yet. And when you go scorched earth in a league that has a salary floor, you have to overpay somebody or you literally overpay everybody with a gigantic check for no additional services rendered. All the young players and draft picks are on predetermined rookie scale contracts.

You have to pay someone a lot to get to the floor. How good they are doesn’t matter money wise. The money gets paid for nothing. And if you’re tanking it matters even less.

Of what benefit is swapping Poole for a better 30 million dollar player?

Less lottery balls, the same bottom line payment, and what….good vibes?

Your approach makes sense in baseball who has no salary floor. Basketball has minimum payments due to the team. You can’t just have a 90 million team. You literally can’t.

And better players win more games to hurt the tank.

This is the wizards finally doing the full rebuild you wanted. Enjoy it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Since we're on the subject, this has to be the worst acting in any critically acclaimed/beloved movie right? If anyone can find me something worse, esp post 90's, I'd love to see it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knAqM2Gsfi4&ab_channel=ClipsandQuotes

What blows my mind is not only was this somehow the best take that they shot, but QT could've watched this and thought it was acceptable. It doesn't affect my viewing experience, as I love this movie, but I legitimately laugh my ass off every time I watch this scene due to how atrocious his acting is.

[tontoz]

There is no cap situation that makes it ok to pay 30 million per year for 4 years for this clown. The salary floor is no issue at all.

When has the salary floor been a problem for any team, ever? It is easy to sign guys to short term deals to reach the floor.

The wizards have very little talent yet somehow Poole still has the worst +/- on the team.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20240108-193011.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Certainly not Up to the standards of the rest of that cast, but unless he was gonna play Marvin who got shot, I’m not sure there was a less obtrusive role he could’ve given himself if he was intent on acting in a speaking role. He’s a movie history guy. He probably likes knowing film buffs in 100 years will be pointing out that he’s the director in that scene long after he’s dead.

[Kblaze8855]

There is no cap situation that makes it ok to pay 30 million per year for 4 years for this clown. The salary floor is no issue at all.

When has the salary floor been a problem for any team, ever? It is easy to sign guys to short term deals to reach the floor.




it has been a problem to many teams. You just didn’t realize it because some owner riding a giant chick at the end of the year doesn’t matter to you. The trust process 76 has had to make those payments. But the league change the rule. Used to be, you could wait and flip something for a highly paid player at the deadline to get yourself to the minimum before the end of the season. The players union got concessions on that in the new CBA.

Now…. you have to be over the floor before the season starts. There’s a cut off date where if you aren’t over it you owe a big ass check. You can’t wait and see how the season goes or flip a second rounder and some overpaid veteran after his team has paid most of his contract and you only have to pay for half of February then March and April. you have to hit the minimum before preseason ends I believe.

Totally changed the approach. Is one reason the Rockets didn’t mind drastically overpaying those deals this summer. They HAD to spend 65 million a season extra or it goes into the pool anyway for nothing. And the nba doesn’t want teams doing that.

The floor is what players got in exchange for the max contract.

The wizards are spending that money no matter what. Everyone worth a damn gets signed. You can try to find guys off the scrap heap to pay but if you wanna lose anyway….why?

[tontoz]

it has been a problem to many teams. You just didn’t realize it because some owner riding a giant chick at the end of the year doesn’t matter to you. The trust process 76 has had to make those payments. But the league change the rule. Used to be, you could wait and flip something for a highly paid player at the deadline to get yourself to the minimum before the end of the season. The players union got concessions on that in the new CBA.

Now…. you have to be over the floor before the season starts. There’s a cut off date where if you aren’t over it you owe a big ass check. You can’t wait and see how the season goes or flip a second rounder and some overpaid veteran after his team has paid most of his contract and you only have to pay for half of February then March and April. you have to hit the minimum before preseason ends I believe.

Totally changed the approach. Is one reason the Rockets didn’t mind drastically overpaying those deals this summer. They HAD to spend 65 million a season extra or it goes into the pool anyway for nothing. And the nba doesn’t want teams doing that.

The floor is what players got in exchange for the max contract.

The wizards are spending that money no matter what. Everyone worth a damn gets signed. You can try to find guys off the scrap heap to pay but if you wanna lose anyway….why?


Assuming we couldn't sign someone we actually wanted it would still make more sense to sign several guys to short term deals to reach the cap floor .

There will be several roster spots open next season. Making the floor will be easy. Dallas is getting good production from several vet min players. If we had to overpay some marginal players for a year to make the floor, so what? That isn't a problem at all

What is a big problem is having scub under contract for 4 years. It would be almost impossible to find a worse way to spend money than to give it to Poole.

[Kblaze8855]

Assuming we couldn't sign someone we actually wanted it would still make more sense to sign several guys to short term deals to reach the cap floor .

There will be several roster spots open next season. Making the floor will be easy. Dallas is getting good production from several vet min players. If we had to overpay some marginal players for a year to make the floor, so what? That isn't a problem at all

What is a big problem is having scub under contract for 4 years. It would be almost impossible to find a worse way to spend money than to give it to Poole.



let me ask you a very simple question.


Do you want the wizards to win more games?

Because signing good vets to short term ”Prove it” Contract is how you win more games.

I’m trying to figure out what you think the wizards gain by that. You have wanted them to tank for years.

Trading a Supermax contract for picks and a much much much smaller one that relative to the cap is getting even smaller and even as it stands is not enough to keep you above your league mandated salary, floor going forward….


why do you want that player to help you win more games?

[BarberSchool]

Houston giving Van vleet the money they did is AT LEAST a .32 in the leg.

Fred must have great room presence and a way with them. Cause they must have bought it hook line and sinker on how much he could influence the young roster with his “championship experience”

Guarantee the suits had to all be smaller than Fred in that room, or that part of the negotiation happened in a setting favorable to Fred.

[tontoz]

let me ask you a very simple question.


Do you want the wizards to win more games?

Because signing good vets to short term ”Prove it” Contract is how you win more games.

I’m trying to figure out what you think the wizards gain by that. You have wanted them to tank for years.

Trading a Supermax contract for picks and a much much much smaller one that relative to the cap is getting even smaller and even as it stands is not enough to keep you above your league mandated salary, floor going forward….


why do you want that player to help you win more games?


Good vets? Where in my post did I ever mention good vets?

There are vet min guys who are playing well in Dallas because they are playing with an MVP candidate. They wouldn't have that luxury with the wizards.

Derrick Jones is a good role player in Dallas. In DC he would be a nobody.

And we didn't trade a supermax contract for picks. We traded him for pick swaps. We didn't gain any picks.

Outright tanking isn't as beneficial as it used to be after the change in the lottery odds. And having extra cap space available is what allowed the Cavs to trade for the pick that later became Kyrie.

[Kblaze8855]

Good vets? Where in my post did I ever mention good vets?

There are vet min guys who are playing well in Dallas because they are playing with an MVP candidate. They wouldn't have that luxury with the wizards.

Derrick Jones is a good role player in Dallas. In DC he would be a nobody.

And we didn't trade a supermax contract for picks. We traded him for pick swaps. We didn't gain any picks.

Outright tanking isn't as beneficial as it used to be after the change in the lottery odds. And having extra cap space available is what allowed the Cavs to trade for the pick that later became Kyrie.


Let me put this even more simply. Of what benefit is it if anybody on the wizards this year does anything to make them win additional games?

if Jordan Poole makes the team worse and your future franchise players are not yet on the team why don’t you want him playing 44 minutes a night? What is the tangible harm done to the rebuild by Jordan Poole being on the floor making you get additional lottery balls?

We have already established. His salary means literally nothing when it won’t even get you to the salary floor for several years as his cap increases absorb his raises. So tell me what harm he does making a team worse when it wants high draft picks.

Tell me the tangible harm to anything but you having to know he’s there.

[tontoz]

Let me put this even more simply. Of what benefit is it if anybody on the wizards this year does anything to make them win additional games?

if Jordan Poole makes the team worse and your future franchise players are not yet on the team why don’t you want him playing 44 minutes a night? What is the tangible harm done to the rebuild by Jordan Poole being on the floor making you get additional lottery balls?

We have already established. His salary means literally nothing when it won’t even get you to the salary floor for several years as his cap increases absorb his raises. So tell me what harm he does making a team worse when it wants high draft picks.

Tell me the tangible harm to anything but you having to know he’s there.


This year it isn't a big deal.If he was an expiring deal it wouldn't bother much although he is hard to watch.

But going forward I would much rather have cap space. Ordinarily teams receive some compensation for taking on a bad player with an outsized contract. We didn't.

[Kblaze8855]

You have cap space anyway. Depending on what Jones does, since he is not restricted, you might not even reach the salary floor next season. Who exactly are you looking to sign with the 25 million or so in space you can already have? And what do you want them to do….while the team is looking to lose? Unless you draft Tim Duncan the tank continues next year.

Youre literally complaining about a guy who doesn’t make enough to get you to league minimum salary who makes you worse when you want to lose.

Are you just so hurt from years of being a wizard fan you complain when things are going the way they’re meant to go?

Whats happening right now is exactly what you’ve been asking for these last several years.

A true salary cutting tank. But for some reason, one guy’s salary matters to you, even when the total team salary is dropping fast. Faster than legal even.

[tontoz]

You have cap space anyway. Depending on what Jones does, since he is not restricted, you might not even reach the salary floor next season. Who exactly are you looking to sign with the 25 million or so in space you can already have? And what do you want them to do….while the team is looking to lose? Unless you draft Tim Duncan the tank continues next year.

Youre literally complaining about a guy who doesn’t make enough to get you to league minimum salary who makes you worse when you want to lose.

Are you just so hurt from years of being a wizard fan you complain when things are going the way they’re meant to go?


$25 million :roll:

You act like that is a big number. News flash, it isn't, especially when you have several roster spots to fill.

If there was a good young player that wanted to come here we wouldn't be able to get him for that. But we would if Poole was expiring.

[Kings2024Champs]

It's been a long time since I been on here. I really wanted to disagree with Xiao but I think it's Mitchell because his number is gonna be obscene and I don't even wanna look at it :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

It's been a long time since I been on here. I really wanted to disagree with Xiao but I think it's Mitchell because his number is gonna be obscene and I don't even wanna look at it :facepalm

as long as you don't mind one dimensional players he's your guy!

[Kblaze8855]

$25 million :roll:

You act like that is a big number. News flash, it isn't, especially when you have several roster spots to fill.

If there was a good young player that wanted to come here we wouldn't be able to get him for that. But we would if Poole was expiring.

So 25 million isn’t a big number but pool making 27 million to make your team worse which is what you want it to be is too big a number?

Between your selective acknowledgment of how little money we are talking about and you stressing the guy making your team worse when it wants to be worse I just feel like years of being a wizard fan has broken your mind.

Youre not signing anyone with 25 million. Or 35 for that matter. Nobody who is an impact player is that cheap in free agency and if you found a second or third tier one all he does is make you what you were with Beal. Bad but too good for high picks.

It’s like you can’t get your head around tanking even after wanting it all these years because your last gen standards are telling you 30 million is a lot of money even when you also know 25 million is nothing today.

You are not going to sign your messiah. Not with 25 million. Not with 36.

Youre the rockets in the west. You can pay someone 40 million to win you 12-15 more games than otherwise and get you a worse pick.

Or you can tank and use all your picks and pick swaps coming your way and rebuild for real.

You’re so used to being a treadmill team it’s like a part of you wants to fight for it.

Big picture wise Jordan Poole‘s contract is virtually nothing, and is entirely absorbed by increases in the cap. If he can get you 25 wins or less for the next three years at the cost of not being able to overpay somebody to come there and make you mediocre? It will be the best thing that ever happened to that team for 30 years. problem is he doesn’t make enough money so depending on how you want to maneuver it, you can still be two full max players under the cap while still having him. And who the **** is signing in DC who makes you contend? You think Giannis is walking through that door? You really aren’t grasping how insignificant he is. Not only is his contract not too large for a team in your situation you might be better off if he made more because you wouldn’t have to sign people to add salary that does nothing for you.

Poole hurts a win now team. Hes a perfect tank commander.

If you get the picks you should out of this you should build him a ****ing statue. Finally got the tank done while leaving your salary so low that if you did draft a Duncan, you would still have a Max contract slot or two in a couple years if you want it.

Youre in the position that everything long term is wide open. Youre draft pick contracts and cap filler. Aka…right where a tanking team should be. You don’t ruin in giving FVV 160 million just because. You keep Poole and lose…and wait for help on the draft.

[tontoz]

Are you actually stupid or do you just do good impressions?

$25 million split 3 or more ways isn't much. $30 million for a scrub is way too much. He is literally the highest paid player on the team and he sucks. That is not a good thing in any scenario.

[Full Court]

AD will be a free agent in 2025, I wouldnt pay that dude a Big Kahunaburger to be a franchise centerpiece or sidekick.

#LebronDeservesBETTER.

Just think though, Lebron would never have even made the playoffs as a Laker without AD.

[Kblaze8855]

If you’re trying to lose…….you know what? Never mind.

I hope he steps it up and wins you 39 games. If you genuinely can’t grasp that it would be a bad thing I hope you get it and enjoy all the 12th picks you can fit around him. Really get your moneys worth for a couple more years of mediocrity. Thats what’s important for that bum ass franchise right now. Good luck with that.

[tontoz]

If you’re trying to lose…….you know what? Never mind.

I hope he steps it up and wins you 39 games. If you genuinely can’t grasp that it would be a bad thing I hope you get it and enjoy all the 12th picks you can fit around him. Really get your moneys worth for a couple more years of mediocrity. Thats what’s important for that bum ass franchise right now. Good luck with that.


Trying to lose? You really think that matters? :roll:


The wizards have been trying to win for decades and what do they have to show for it? A team with Kuzma as the best player isn't going to suddenly rocket up the standings.

The wizards have been the masters of unintentional tanking for years

I count only 10 guys under contract for next season so if course they are under the cap. Duh

[tontoz]

BTW the wizards haven't won 39 games since 2018 even though they just started tanking this year.