The Suns have to start thinking really hard

[elementally morale]

I'm watching the Suns-Clippers game. (The game is pretty good btw.) Phoenix plays well in the sense that all their stars came to play. Still, they are losing comfortably.

I'm not sure what they can do that they are actually able to do. Durant is hitting. Both Booker and Beal have okay games. Not their best games but not bad at all. And they don't seem to be a contender. They 'should' defend better but are they capable? I know it's been just a few games with their big 3 in the lineup together. On offense they look absolutely fine. But I don't know how they will win games that matter.

[elementally morale]

Everyone knows what they need to fix. They know what they need to fix. But how.

[Axe]

Lmao scoreless for how many minutes. Wtf is going on to them. :facepalm

[elementally morale]

They cannot stop anybody and they don't have the personnel to really improve. This team is poorly constructed. They look nice on offense and even nicer on paper. Don't seem to be a contender though and I'm not sure if they can ever work on it.

Their 3 best players have 65 points on better than 50% shooting. So they are not having a bad game. Still losing by 20. It's a tough predicament to be in.

[fourkicks44]

Leaving the big 3 together, their only moves are to trade Nurkic and Allen. Flip one for picks and then attach those picks to the other player to get players of value.

Allen is good for them, so unfortunately, they are probably f"cked.

[Chick Stern]

Booker has declined. The Kardashian curse is real.

[warriorfan]

told everyone getting beal was suicidal

[HylianNightmare]

Lack of Bol Bol

[Kblaze8855]

told everyone getting beal was suicidal

Booker or KD has been missing in just under half their games and Beal over half and they’re still tied for the last playoff spot and ahead of the Lakers and Warriors and can be way under the cap in two years. You don’t seem to know what “suicide” means.

[Wardell Curry]

How about we just acknowledge that well rounded teams are almost always required to win and that it's not just the star player(s)? No? Yeah, I didn't think we'd get there. Just felt like saying it out loud.

[tontoz]

Realistically the time for thinking is over. In poker terms they are "pot committed". At this point all they can really do is let things play out and see what happens for the next year or two.

[Axe]

Booker or KD has been missing in just under half their games and Beal over half and they’re still tied for the last playoff spot and ahead of the Lakers and Warriors and can be way under the cap in two years. You don’t seem to know what “suicide” means.
:oldlol:

Crackhead knows no context.

[elementally morale]

How about we just acknowledge that well rounded teams are almost always required to win and that it's not just the star player(s)? No? Yeah, I didn't think we'd get there. Just felt like saying it out loud.

For the record, I was among those that thought the Suns team will not work. The thread was made because I think this is about the time they kind of know it themselves.

[elementally morale]

Realistically the time for thinking is over. In poker terms they are "pot committed". At this point all they can really do is let things play out and see what happens for the next year or two.

I've learned a new phrase. :cheers:

What do you think will happen in the next two years?

[tontoz]

I've learned a new phrase. :cheers:

What do you think will happen in the next two years?


Not sure. It is sink or swim time for this group. They really don't have much flexibility at this point.

I didn't like the Beal trade for them when it happened. I thought they would have been better off trying to get role players to fit around KD/Booker. I certainly haven't seen anything so far that would change my opinion.

[Wally450]

You can't buy a superteam and expect it to go swimmingly.

[ImKobe]

These guys haven't played together much at all. It's either Beal's been out, and/or Booker, and/or KD.. They'll figure it out.

19 - 18 despite all the injuries isn't really that bad yet because Lakers and Warriors have been struggling as well. Suns I'm sure will make a run if they can finally get healthy.

[ShawkFactory]

These guys haven't played together much at all. It's either Beal's been out, and/or Booker, and/or KD.. They'll figure it out.

19 - 18 despite all the injuries isn't really that bad yet because Lakers and Warriors have been struggling as well. Suns I'm sure will make a run if they can finally get healthy.

Will they though? Obviously they're too talented to be bad or miss the playoffs or anything like that. But I'm not really sure what all 3 of them playing together looks like, and I don't mean that in a good way. Booker and Beal are very similar players and both need shots to get cooking. None of them are particularly good defenders. They don't really have size.

I honestly don't know that adding Beal makes them any better at all. At least with Bridges and Ayton you had guys who knew their role and accepted it, even if they were slightly too talented to only be putting up the numbers they did.

Someone is going to have to take a cut and idk who will be super happy doing it.

[Axe]

You guys forgot to bring up frank vogel. He can't seem to handle this team well.

[ImKobe]

Will they though? Obviously they're too talented to be bad or miss the playoffs or anything like that. But I'm not really sure what all 3 of them playing together looks like, and I don't mean that in a good way. Booker and Beal are very similar players and both need shots to get cooking. None of them are particularly good defenders. They don't really have size.

I honestly don't know that adding Beal makes them any better at all. At least with Bridges and Ayton you had guys who knew their role and accepted it, even if they were slightly too talented to only be putting up the numbers they did.

Someone is going to have to take a cut and idk who will be super happy doing it.

Idk, if I were to guess they want to get Beal involved early and have him carry more of a load in 1st halves so KD and Book can do their thing down the stretch. There's no reason this team should be any worse than last year's come Playoff time if they're not injured.

Tbh I was surprised to see that they're 18th on D at the moment. If they can get their offense going a mediocre defense would be good enough to win in the Playoffs.

[Manny98]

There defense is mediocre at best and they're missing a true floor general that can elevate the offense

This team is poorly constructed

[wagexslave]

They need to get Booker back to his natural position at SG. He's a good substitute point guard on occasion, but he's not Devin Booker when he's forced to play PG most of the time every game.

It doesn't help that the coaching has been atrocious, they run the most vanilla ass basic plays that involve everyone standing around while the shot clock drains away until a pick finally comes. They run that play over and over every game, and every single time the other team's defense is ready for it and defense it well because their coach scouted the play and it's so easy to predict.

Also it's amazing how we can't seem to figure out player rotations still. I know +/- isn't everything, but holy shit we're getting held back by underperforming scrubs coming onto the court and contributing nothing. Our starting 5 actually has a damn good +/- when healthy. But some of these supporting cast dudes like Yuta and KBD have regressed greatly from their shooting splits liast year on other teams.

Shit KBD dropped a -24 the other night, in a game where he only played 14 minutes and we lost by 6 points. Nobody else on the team even had worse than a -8. How tf does that even happen? More importantly how tf did this dude manage to shoot 51%FG/39%3PT last season then comes here and drops all the way to 39%FG/28%3PT? Like damn. Same with Yuta's sorry ass. Dudes went from being reliable on other teams to not even having enough confidence to knock down a wide open 3 for us smh...

[Patrick Chewing]

Julius Randle, Quentin Grimes, and 3 firsts for Booker

[highwhey]

Julius Randle, Quentin Grimes, and 3 firsts for Booker

have you been 2nd hand smoking warriorfan's crack?

[meat]

have you been 2nd hand smoking warriorfan's crack?

Shush. They're actually talking basketball. Not you boy's weird hate/love/jizz thing you have going

[90sgoat]

Trade Durant to Celtics for Porzingis and Derrick White.

[highwhey]

They need to get Booker back to his natural position at SG. He's a good substitute point guard on occasion, but he's not Devin Booker when he's forced to play PG most of the time every game.

It doesn't help that the coaching has been atrocious, they run the most vanilla ass basic plays that involve everyone standing around while the shot clock drains away until a pick finally comes. They run that play over and over every game, and every single time the other team's defense is ready for it and defense it well because their coach scouted the play and it's so easy to predict.

Also it's amazing how we can't seem to figure out player rotations still. I know +/- isn't everything, but holy shit we're getting held back by underperforming scrubs coming onto the court and contributing nothing. Our starting 5 actually has a damn good +/- when healthy. But some of these supporting cast dudes like Yuta and KBD have regressed greatly from their shooting splits liast year on other teams.

Shit KBD dropped a -24 the other night, in a game where he only played 14 minutes and we lost by 6 points. Nobody else on the team even had worse than a -8. How tf does that even happen? More importantly how tf did this dude manage to shoot 51%FG/39%3PT last season then comes here and drops all the way to 39%FG/28%3PT? Like damn. Same with Yuta's sorry ass. Dudes went from being reliable on other teams to not even having enough confidence to knock down a wide open 3 for us smh...

this reads like an r/suns post. you guys need to get a grip of reality, can keep pointing the finger at kbd or another role player, but the truth is this team has poor chemistry and it needs a point guard to stop the 4th quarter meltdowns that keep happening. booker also needs to step up and stop being a lil bitch.

like tontoz said, this team is committed to the pot, they made that decision when trading KD for our depth and future. now we have 3 'stars' that are traffic cones on defense and don't know how to create for others consistently. they're just 3 really good ISO scorers that need a point guard to run a competent offense and nurkic is garbage on defense but you guys like to turn a blind eye to that bc OMGz he can shoot 3s!

[elementally morale]

this reads like an r/suns post. you guys need to get a grip of reality, can keep pointing the finger at kbd or another role player, but the truth is this team has poor chemistry and it needs a point guard to stop the 4th quarter meltdowns that keep happening.

Yesterday the game slowly started ti slip away in the 2nd quarter. By the 4th it was basically over. What's surprising to me the fact the the Suns didn't play bad at all through the first 3 quarters. The offense was fine. The big three shot well. Not out of this world good but fairly good. They should be beating most teams on most nights with the way they played on offense last night, and by mid 3rd Q they were comfortably losing by 20. Even more interesting is it seemed they didn't even try to do something differently while it happened. Kept doing the same and it hurt them more and more.

[highwhey]

Yesterday the game slowly started ti slip away in the 2nd quarter. By the 4th it was basically over. What's surprising to me the fact the the Suns didn't play bad at all through the first 3 quarters. The offense was fine. The big three shot well. Not out of this world good but fairly good. They should be beating most teams on most nights with the way they played on offense last night, and by mid 3rd Q they were comfortably losing by 20. Even more interesting is it seemed they didn't even try to do something differently while it happened. Kept doing the same and it hurt them more and more.

yeah, let me guess...the offense became stagnant? they couldn't hit shots? they tried forcing kd or booker to score and it went miserably bad? their offense looked nothing like the previous 3 quarters? i present to you the 23-24 Suns! why have a point guard when you can have 3 shooting guards that can try their mighty best to play point guard but ultimately fail to set up and create for others bc they aren't point guards? let me make another educated guess, their defense was sh1t? frank vogel staring into empty space while the suns see the 4th quarter happen bc there was nothing they could do to salvage it?

[highwhey]

if i hadn't just blown 10k dollars last week, i'd buy a billboard in phoenix and explain what a point guard is.

[elementally morale]

yeah, let me guess...the offense became stagnant? they couldn't hit shots? they tried forcing kd or booker to score and it went miserably bad? their offense looked nothing like the previous 3 quarters? i present to you the 23-24 Suns! why have a point guard when you can have 3 shooting guards that can try their mighty best to play point guard but ultimately fail to set up and create for others bc they aren't point guards? let me make another educated guess, their defense was sh1t? frank vogel staring into empty space while the suns see the 4th quarter happen bc there was nothing they could do to salvage it?

I mean... they were playing fine. Did make shots. Seemed to be doing pretty well until you looked at the scoreboard. It was interesting exactly because of this. I didn't have any idea as to what they could've done differently.

[highwhey]

I mean... they were playing fine. Did make shots. Seemed to be doing pretty well until you looked at the scoreboard. It was interesting exactly because of this. I didn't have any idea as to what they could've done differently.

oh, so it was one of the rare nights where they played good offense? so it was their defense that couldn't keep up. yeah, that tends to happen when all 15 players can't play good defense. grayson can hustle but even he's not a great defender, he's all hustle.

[elementally morale]

oh, so it was one of the rare nights where they played good offense? so it was their defense that couldn't keep up. yeah, that tends to happen when all 15 players can't play good defense. grayson can hustle but even he's not a great defender, he's all hustle.

You shouldn't be angry with me, I'm not the GM, the coach, etc. I was actually praising the players. They did well. They were who they are. Didn't play bad. So... what needs to change? Because you as a fan have higher expectations than a 1st round exit. I have no idea what needs to change.

[highwhey]

You shouldn't be angry with me, I'm not the GM, the coach, etc. I was actually praising the players. They did well. They were who they are. Didn't play bad. So... what needs to change? Because you as a fan have higher expectations than a 1st round exit. I have no idea what needs to change.

not mad at you, i'm just being sarcastic.

it's too late to do anything that will change their early playoffs exit. they don't have the resources to get even a decent PG. sure as hell not going to get good defenders that can score.

season might as well be over for them. i'm just going to pretend that i don't care about the success and i just want to have fun.

[tontoz]

You shouldn't be angry with me, I'm not the GM, the coach, etc. I was actually praising the players. They did well. They were who they are. Didn't play bad. So... what needs to change? Because you as a fan have higher expectations than a 1st round exit. I have no idea what needs to change.



If we go back to the end of the playoffs, they clearly needed to trade CP3. There was no way he would never make it healthy through a long playoff run. And it looked t like Ayton had to be traded too. Seems like the situation had become toxic.

So they did the right thing trading those guys. I just didn't like the Beal trade because he doesn't address their needs at all, isn't that good and is horribly overpaid. He hasn't made the All Star game since '21 and his contract is over $50 million per year. Just awful.

Of course the wizards, in their infinite wisdom, replaced his bad contract with another one. Thankfully it's smaller but GD Poole has really sucked.

[elementally morale]

Of course the wizards, in their infinite wisdom, replaced his bad contract with another one. Thankfully it's smaller but GD Poole has really sucked.

If Kuzma was coached the way he should've been he could be the 2nd best player on a very good team. The player he turned out to be is 3rd best player on a good team. Yet, he clearly is the best player on the Wizards. You can't expect too much from that team as it is. As for Poole, he got horribly overpaid but if he got USD 1 for the whole year he wouldn't play any better because he is not capable of doing that. His contract is bad but as there is a floor in the CBA the Wizards lose his money either way. Now... if you have a better player and win more games... it looks better but the team still goes nowhere. Chance or rebuilding decrease. In that sense, playing Poole a lot makes sense. He is paid, let him play, let him suck, forget it. What is the GM would've brought in some capable veterans for the vet min or sg? A slightly better product with no better future. My main problem with Poole is he is hard to watch. Jordan Clarkson hard.

[90sgoat]

There are actually very few good floor general point guards left in the game.

Guys like Connelly, CP3, TJ McConnell, those who think about the team, not just those who can pass too like Luka and Halliburton.

Not a lot of pass first point guards. Where's Rondo? Where's Stockton? Marc Jackson?

[Xiao Yao You]

There are actually very few good floor general point guards left in the game.

Guys like Connelly, CP3, TJ McConnell, those who think about the team, not just those who can pass too like Luka and Halliburton.

Not a lot of pass first point guards. Where's Rondo? Where's Stockton? Marc Jackson?

Kris Dunn is from the old school. Neto was too. Not much of a place for those guys anymore unfortunately

[Jasper]

I'm watching the Suns-Clippers game. (The game is pretty good btw.) Phoenix plays well in the sense that all their stars came to play. Still, they are losing comfortably.

I'm not sure what they can do that they are actually able to do. Durant is hitting. Both Booker and Beal have okay games. Not their best games but not bad at all. And they don't seem to be a contender. They 'should' defend better but are they capable? I know it's been just a few games with their big 3 in the lineup together. On offense they look absolutely fine. But I don't know how they will win games that matter.

Their missing piece is Coach Griffen from the Bucks.
Bucks willing to give him up for Booker.

[tontoz]

If Kuzma was coached the way he should've been he could be the 2nd best player on a very good team. The player he turned out to be is 3rd best player on a good team. Yet, he clearly is the best player on the Wizards. You can't expect too much from that team as it is. As for Poole, he got horribly overpaid but if he got USD 1 for the whole year he wouldn't play any better because he is not capable of doing that. His contract is bad but as there is a floor in the CBA the Wizards lose his money either way. Now... if you have a better player and win more games... it looks better but the team still goes nowhere. Chance or rebuilding decrease. In that sense, playing Poole a lot makes sense. He is paid, let him play, let him suck, forget it. What is the GM would've brought in some capable veterans for the vet min or sg? A slightly better product with no better future. My main problem with Poole is he is hard to watch. Jordan Clarkson hard.


I like Kuzma but he is getting hard to watch lately. He has the ultimate green light now and is getting carried away with it. He always had a tendency to try to do too much but now he frequently looks like a chucker.

[elementally morale]

I like Kuzma but he is getting hard to watch lately. He has the ultimate green light now and is getting carried away with it. He always had a tendency to try to do too much but now he frequently looks like a chucker.

I like Kuzma a lot. In his rookie year I thought he would be an all-star soon. Him playing on the Lakers didn't do him any good. By his 2nd year he became a lot more stagnant, standing around. By his 3rd and 4th years he was worse than as a rookie. A very talented guy and I'm sad to see him not having become better. And it is too late now.

[tontoz]

I like Kuzma a lot. In his rookie year I thought he would be an all-star soon. Him playing on the Lakers didn't do him any good. By his 2nd year he became a lot more stagnant, standing around. By his 3rd and 4th years he was worse than as a rookie. A very talented guy and I'm sad to see him not having become better. And it is too late now.


He actually has become better. He has a lot of variety too his game, but he just tries to do too much which hurts his efficiency.

He is definitely better suited to being a 3rd or 4th option. With a lower usage there will be fewer of his wtf attempts.

[beasted]

Kuzma is a losing type player despite his talents and paper stats. Reminds me of Julius Randle in all the worst ways.