23 FT's to 2 FT's in the 4th Quarter

[Patrick Chewing]

Saw this game last night. The fix was in for the Lakers. This league is unwatchable. Darko was hot. Epic rant.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bDFNsCSwVA

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuJC1_a5xEQ

4:02 mark.

Nuff said.

[Patrick Chewing]

This was a flagrant foul: https://x.com/BrickMuse/status/1744980089736180089?s=20


:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

This was a flagrant foul: https://x.com/BrickMuse/status/1744980089736180089?s=20


:facepalm

By today's rules that is a flagrant. It's weak I know, but it is what it is.

[Patrick Chewing]

By today's rules that is a flagrant. It's weak I know, but it is what it is.

It's not even that it's a weak call, it's just a wrong call, period. They need to go back to the old rules. This is getting silly.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I remember a few years ago James and his fans were furious over a no-call James should have gotten vs the Cs that could have gotten them a win. This is proof that these things happen both for and against you. Ideally we would always just have good officiating but that's never been in the cards.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ve been wondering for a long time now what people think specifically is happening when they see lopsided free-throw totals. Do you think that while negotiating A 50+ billion dollar media deal the NBA is down to risk the scandal of ordering referees to throw a January game versus the Raptors? Or do you imagine that because a ref was caught gambling every time a team takes a bunch of free throws the ref owes money to the Kansas City mob? And learned nothing from that previous guys life being destroyed, and him being incarcerated, losing millions in fees and lost salary, and sparking changes in the ref contract that allows the league to peer into their personal lives and track their movements?

do you assume it’s a ref being a fan like that one ref was accused of being for the Celtics?

Id just like to know what you think the mechanism is and the reasoning to fix such a game. I don’t care that you think it’s fixed. I don’t need whatever evidence you think suggests that because I don’t care. You look hard enough every single game has some fan on both sides, saying it’s rigged. Even early in big blowouts. You search for “rigged” or “fixed” and your teams name you’ll find it literally 100% of the games everyone plays. In basketball and football at least. I saw a Washington fan going off about the national title game being rigged. I don’t care. Thats just sports.

So let’s skip that part ok? The part where you try to justify thinking it’s rigged. Think it. I don’t mind.

What I want to know who you think is responsible for it, and what they hoped to achieve in this situation that doesn’t get dwarfed in comparison to the risk being taken to achieve it.

[tpols]

23 FTs to 2 is wild. The league is trying to make sure LA makes the playoffs.

[tpols]

This was a flagrant foul: https://x.com/BrickMuse/status/1744980089736180089?s=20


:facepalm

Giannis does that euro step elbow swing on almost every drive and the refs give him the free throws. One time he knocked a dudes teeth out and there was no call. NBA reffing is a total joke.

[Patrick Chewing]

I’ve been wondering for a long time now what people think specifically is happening when they see lopsided free-throw totals. Do you think that while negotiating A 50+ billion dollar media deal the NBA is down to risk the scandal of ordering referees to throw a January game versus the Raptors? Or do you imagine that because a ref was caught gambling every time a team takes a bunch of free throws the ref owes money to the Kansas City mob? And learned nothing from that previous guys life being destroyed, and him being incarcerated, losing millions in fees and lost salary, and sparking changes in the ref contract that allows the league to peer into their personal lives and track their movements?

do you assume it’s a ref being a fan like that one ref was accused of being for the Celtics?

Id just like to know what you think the mechanism is and the reasoning to fix such a game. I don’t care that you think it’s fixed. I don’t need whatever evidence you think suggests that because I don’t care. You look hard enough every single game has some fan on both sides, saying it’s rigged. Even early in big blowouts. You search for “rigged” or “fixed” and your teams name you’ll find it literally 100% of the games everyone plays. In basketball and football at least. I saw a Washington fan going off about the national title game being rigged. I don’t care. Thats just sports.

So let’s skip that part ok? The part where you try to justify thinking it’s rigged. Think it. I don’t mind.

What I want to know who you think is responsible for it, and what they hoped to achieve in this situation that doesn’t get dwarfed in comparison to the risk being taken to achieve it.

lol wut?


It's just bad officiating that stems from new NBA rules and the alien, Adam Silver. They want offense, but they also don't understand that these players are a lot more physical than ever before. It's a faster-paced league, and if you stifle that with free throw attempts, it just makes the product boring. The last minute of that Lakers game was mired in delays due to free throws and replay visits by the refs.

Yawn.

[Duffy Pratt]

I’ve been wondering for a long time now what people think specifically is happening when they see lopsided free-throw totals. Do you think that while negotiating A 50+ billion dollar media deal the NBA is down to risk the scandal of ordering referees to throw a January game versus the Raptors? Or do you imagine that because a ref was caught gambling every time a team takes a bunch of free throws the ref owes money to the Kansas City mob? And learned nothing from that previous guys life being destroyed, and him being incarcerated, losing millions in fees and lost salary, and sparking changes in the ref contract that allows the league to peer into their personal lives and track their movements?

do you assume it’s a ref being a fan like that one ref was accused of being for the Celtics?

Id just like to know what you think the mechanism is and the reasoning to fix such a game. I don’t care that you think it’s fixed. I don’t need whatever evidence you think suggests that because I don’t care. You look hard enough every single game has some fan on both sides, saying it’s rigged. Even early in big blowouts. You search for “rigged” or “fixed” and your teams name you’ll find it literally 100% of the games everyone plays. In basketball and football at least. I saw a Washington fan going off about the national title game being rigged. I don’t care. Thats just sports.

So let’s skip that part ok? The part where you try to justify thinking it’s rigged. Think it. I don’t mind.

What I want to know who you think is responsible for it, and what they hoped to achieve in this situation that doesn’t get dwarfed in comparison to the risk being taken to achieve it.

Did you watch the game last night? I have no clear-cut explanation for the lopsided calling, but the idea that it was simply random is not plausible.

There were at least four phantom fouls given to LA. There were at least three no calls on drives by Toronto that had more contact than the Laker fouls. There was the flagrant which I have frequently seen as a no call. And there was the BS moving screen where Davis ran into the guy and flopped, taking away Barnes’ three. All in the last four minutes (and most of it before the 2 minute review would take a look at it).

It makes me suspect that the League is not going to let the Lakers fall out of the play-in, at a bare minimum. Is that too risky a thing for them to do? Maybe. Or maybe there’s another explanation for it. But I think in an extreme case like this, the burden should be the other way around. The evidence is way too strong that there was something fishy going on, and it’s not simply the fact of the numerical discrepancy.

[Kblaze8855]

lol wut?


It's just bad officiating that stems from new NBA rules and the alien, Adam Silver. They want offense, but they also don't understand that these players are a lot more physical than ever before. It's a faster-paced league, and if you stifle that with free throw attempts, it just makes the product boring. The last minute of that Lakers game was mired in delays due to free throws and replay visits by the refs.

Yawn.


if it’s just bad officiating, based on how the league wants it called, then it isn’t fixed. Unless you’re saying it’s fixed for the offense in general, which is a different thing.

[Patrick Chewing]

if it’s just bad officiating, based on how the league wants it called, then it isn’t fixed. Unless you’re saying it’s fixed for the offense in general, which is a different thing.

It's bad officiating that stems from bad rules. I think Darko was implying it was something more conspiratorial. 23-2 is just something you don't see on a regular basis.

[tpols]

Did you watch the game last night? I have no clear-cut explanation for the lopsided calling, but the idea that it was simply random is not plausible.

There were at least four phantom fouls given to LA. There were at least three no calls on drives by Toronto that had more contact than the Laker fouls. There was the flagrant which I have frequently seen as a no call. And there was the BS moving screen where Davis ran into the guy and flopped, taking away Barnes’ three. All in the last four minutes (and most of it before the 2 minute review would take a look at it).

It makes me suspect that the League is not going to let the Lakers fall out of the play-in, at a bare minimum. Is that too risky a thing for them to do? Maybe. Or maybe there’s another explanation for it. But I think in an extreme case like this, the burden should be the other way around. The evidence is way too strong that there was something fishy going on, and it’s not simply the fact of the numerical discrepancy.

It's not risky at all so long as we have fans like kblaze who will silence the rigging.

A team could shoot 100 FTs to 0 and he'd be saying anybody who thinks the outcome was guided to a particular more lucrative result is a conspiracy theorist or something and a lot of people would believe him because they're sheep.

That's why the league gets away with it and always has. It's just more ridiculous now because we have more cameras and reviews and footage to really see the BS going on.

[Mr. Jabbar]

he mad

[ShawkFactory]

This kind of thing has been happening since not just the dawn of basketball, but sports in general. People only complain because they don't like Lebron or the Lakers. But when it's happening to their guy/team I'm sure we wouldn't hear a peep from them.

Maddux, Pedro, and Clemens had a larger strikezone than the average. Jordan and his teams got the benefit of the doubt. So did the Patriots with Brady.

It happens. It's a natural subconscious response for refs and the league to favor their top people. Nobody likes getting bitched at, partuclarly by Jordan, Brady, Maddux, etc.

[Kblaze8855]

The issue is that if a team had 100 free throws to zero fans of the team that had 100 free throws would be saying they should have shot 106 because of some missed calls. If you want to laugh, go on Twitter and put a team name and the word rigged or fixed into the search and you will realize someone thinks virtually everything that ever happened was rigged. Laker fans pointing out games being taken from them by bad calls. Warrior fans saying the same game is rigged that other fans say is rigged against them to help the Warriors. Magic fans saying the league has always been anti Orlando as if they have not received all those first overall draft picks.

people are blind to how stupid this is because they only choose to see the rig in outcomes They don’t want. That’s where the credibility is lost. There are fans online tracking calls that supposedly prove the league is trying to keep the Timberwolves down. Do you think that person thinks any game is rigged for them to win? Of course not. But there is a version of him repping the kings who will talk about the fix being in when they play Minnesota.

When everything close has people saying it’s rigged on both sides someone by necessity is an idiot. And both sides would tell me I’m crazy for not seeing it.

Which is more likely? That every game fan say is rigged is rigged? Or that fans are ****ing stupid?

Be honest. Tell me which one of those things is more likely. We both know the answer. The only issue is if you’re going to lie to me about it.

[tpols]

If a raptor fan came in here right now and said the league tried rigging that game for Toronto to win wed have to assume he is stupid because it flies in the face of all evidence.

If a fan watches his team take double the amount of FTs and then says the league rigged it against his team, he's an idiot.

I'm a Kobe fan and can admit 2002 was rigged. Are any Laker fans gonna say the league was trying to guide the Kings to the Finals? Maybe a few but they'd be making a dumb argument. It doesn't mean the people making the correct argument with evidence are wrong.

[Kblaze8855]

At the Time? Yes. Laker fans were pointing out missed calls that went against them suggesting the league wanted them to lose. Could it have been a ploy where people pretend to believe something they don’t for the sake of an argument? Sure. But you people do so much of that. It’s impossible to tell.

”Oh but I thought you said….” Arguments were someone goes against everything they have previously been saying, because it now involves a different player are common place So you can never say with conviction what anybody really believes. But fact is they were Laker fans doing that.

And let me ask again since you chose not to answer.

Which is more likely? That every game that fans across sports say is rigged is rigged? Or that fans emotion makes them stupid and unable to cope with losing?

Which is more likely?

[ArbitraryWater]

I remember a few years ago James and his fans were furious over a no-call James should have gotten vs the Cs that could have gotten them a win. This is proof that these things happen both for and against you. Ideally we would always just have good officiating but that's never been in the cards.

few years ago lol

Did anything of that sort happen last night? So far your premise is not making any sense

[FKAri]

It's bad officiating that stems from bad rules. I think Darko was implying it was something more conspiratorial. 23-2 is just something you don't see on a regular basis.

But that's what you said too:

Saw this game last night. The fix was in for the Lakers.


Which goes back to kblaze's point. It's either fixed or it's bad officiating. Can't really be both.

[Duffy Pratt]

The issue is that if a team had 100 free throws to zero fans of the team that had 100 free throws would be saying they should have shot 106 because of some missed calls. If you want to laugh, go on Twitter and put a team name and the word rigged or fixed into the search and you will realize someone thinks virtually everything that ever happened was rigged. Laker fans pointing out games being taken from them by bad calls. Warrior fans saying the same game is rigged that other fans say is rigged against them to help the Warriors. Magic fans saying the league has always been anti Orlando as if they have not received all those first overall draft picks.

people are blind to how stupid this is because they only choose to see the rig in outcomes They don’t want. That’s where the credibility is lost. There are fans online tracking calls that supposedly prove the league is trying to keep the Timberwolves down. Do you think that person thinks any game is rigged for them to win? Of course not. But there is a version of him repping the kings who will talk about the fix being in when they play Minnesota.

When everything close has people saying it’s rigged on both sides someone by necessity is an idiot. And both sides would tell me I’m crazy for not seeing it.

Which is more likely? That every game fan say is rigged is rigged? Or that fans are ****ing stupid?

Be honest. Tell me which one of those things is more likely. We both know the answer. The only issue is if you’re going to lie to me about it.

I’m not a Raptors fan. Not particularly a fan of any team. I played ball in high school and am a fan of the game. I like to watch good basketball. Last night’s game looked rigged to me. The imbalance in the calls was just too regular and went on for too long.

It’s absurd to say that it couldn’t happen because it’s too risky when we know for a fact that it has happened before.

[tpols]

People say stupid shit all the time. That doesn't mean when somebody points out something that's correct it's invalid. People making the absurd argument that 2002 was rigged for the Kings with crap evidence to support it doesn't invalidate others who can show LA was clearly being given way better calls.

[Duffy Pratt]

At the Time? Yes. Laker fans were pointing out missed calls that went against them suggesting the league wanted them to lose. Could it have been a ploy where people pretend to believe something they don’t for the sake of an argument? Sure. But you people do so much of that. It’s impossible to tell.

”Oh but I thought you said….” Arguments were someone goes against everything they have previously been saying, because it now involves a different player are common place So you can never say with conviction what anybody really believes. But fact is they were Laker fans doing that.

And let me ask again since you chose not to answer.

Which is more likely? That every game that fans across sports say is rigged is rigged? Or that fans emotion makes them stupid and unable to cope with losing?

Which is more likely?

You are excluding a middle territory. Of course, not every claim that a game is rigged is true. But that doesn’t mean that every game is not rigged. It’s possible that some are, and we know that in the past some have been.

Put it another way: just because I am paranoid does not mean that people aren’t out to get me.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m not a Raptors fan. Not particularly a fan of any team. I played ball in high school and am a fan of the game. I like to watch good basketball. Last night’s game looked rigged to me. The imbalance in the calls was just too regular and went on for too long.

It’s absurd to say that it couldn’t happen because it’s too risky when we know for a fact that it has happened before.

I didn’t say it couldn’t happen I said pretty much every game is said to be rigged by someone. You follow any game live online someone says it’s rigged. The number rises with popular players involved but it’s every game. You know the nba rigged the Nets and Blazers recently? That something seemed “fishy” with pretty much every Nuggets/Pacer game?

Its pretty much EVERY game.

At what point do you tune it all out?

They all think their reasons are valid. They all think I’m stupid. They all think it’s perfectly clear and previous things prove they aren’t crazy.

It’s every nba game. It’s every nfl game. It’s soccer. It’s mma and boxing. Regardless of how rigged or non rigged any sport or situation is or appears to be.

Theyre all rigged and I’m crazy or gullible to say otherwise.

At that point…. What are we even doing?

[Kblaze8855]

You are excluding a middle territory. Of course, not every claim that a game is rigged is true. But that doesn’t mean that every game is not rigged. It’s possible that some are, and we know that in the past some have been.

Put it another way: just because I am paranoid does not mean that people aren’t out to get me.


I’m sure this guy would tell me the same thing…


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401110033420380.jpeg


Even though his team lost every game for two months. It’s the refs. Always. And people saying otherwise are just doing league bidding.

[dankok8]

It's not rigged in a sense where refs go like "Ok Lakers are winning tonight." but the league does give refs instructions on points of emphasis. For instance, "Our superstars don't get enough calls going to the rim." or "Our superstars get called for too many ticy-tac fouls." and that certainly can and does influence officiating. I wouldn't call it rigged as much as saying it's a business strategy. The Lakers and Lebron make the league a ton of money. My Raptors quite frankly don't. But it's always been around and isn't some conspiracy theory.

[Patrick Chewing]

Better question: Is there any doubt that someone like Lebron James gets preferential treatment?


Another question: I want you guys to look at that Immanuel Quickley shot again that was called a flagrant foul against him. Is what the NBA telling us is that the shooter has to alter their shot from a natural shooting motion? Kids all over the world right now are learning how to shoot the basketball, only to learn that in the highest of leagues, the most professional of leagues with the highest credentials, that this motion is actually an offensive foul?? :facepalm

[ImKobe]

I always see ppl complain about FT disparity but they rarely provide the evidence where it's actually rigged.

Lakers had 10 FTs in the last 33 seconds, 8 of which were due to intentional fouls.. people always make it out to be worse than it is.


This was a flagrant foul: https://x.com/BrickMuse/status/1744980089736180089?s=20


:facepalm

He elbowed him in the jaw bro.. There doesn't have to be intent for it to be a flagrant foul. That's pretty standard for today's NBA. I've seen much weaker calls.

Should the Raptors have gotten more FTs in this game? Probably, but it doesn't mean it was rigged or that there's some huge conspiracy by the league to help the Lakers out.

I've heard of these claims since the Kobe days and it just seems like some Laker hater bs.

[Akeem34TheDream]

There is zero doubt that star players get easier calls. They also get less travel calls called on them. Everybody knows that.

[ShawkFactory]

I always see ppl complain about FT disparity but they rarely provide the evidence where it's actually rigged.

Lakers had 10 FTs in the last 33 seconds, 8 of which were due to intentional fouls.. people always make it out to be worse than it is.



He elbowed him in the jaw bro.. There doesn't have to be intent for it to be a flagrant foul. That's pretty standard for today's NBA. I've seen much weaker calls.

Should the Raptors have gotten more FTs in this game? Probably, but it doesn't mean it was rigged or that there's some huge conspiracy by the league to help the Lakers out.

I've heard of these claims since the Kobe days and it just seems like some Laker hater bs.

That's a pretty weak call though. A flagrant 1 implies no intent to harm but still not a basketball move. Unfortunate that the elbow hit but Quickly was making a move. And it's particularly unusual to call a flagrant on an offensive player.

That's an offensive foul but nothing else to me. But they were perhaps flagging the result and not the action. Which happens.

[ImKobe]

The issue is that if a team had 100 free throws to zero fans of the team that had 100 free throws would be saying they should have shot 106 because of some missed calls. If you want to laugh, go on Twitter and put a team name and the word rigged or fixed into the search and you will realize someone thinks virtually everything that ever happened was rigged. Laker fans pointing out games being taken from them by bad calls. Warrior fans saying the same game is rigged that other fans say is rigged against them to help the Warriors. Magic fans saying the league has always been anti Orlando as if they have not received all those first overall draft picks.

people are blind to how stupid this is because they only choose to see the rig in outcomes They don’t want. That’s where the credibility is lost. There are fans online tracking calls that supposedly prove the league is trying to keep the Timberwolves down. Do you think that person thinks any game is rigged for them to win? Of course not. But there is a version of him repping the kings who will talk about the fix being in when they play Minnesota.

When everything close has people saying it’s rigged on both sides someone by necessity is an idiot. And both sides would tell me I’m crazy for not seeing it.

Which is more likely? That every game fan say is rigged is rigged? Or that fans are ****ing stupid?

Be honest. Tell me which one of those things is more likely. We both know the answer. The only issue is if you’re going to lie to me about it.

Facts. It doesn't matter what the result is. Gambling is so widespread that you will get a ton of people complaining about calls no matter what because there's always going to be losers. Lakers got hosed on so many last-second calls last season where it cost them a bunch of games early on.

[Patrick Chewing]

That's an offensive foul but nothing else to me. But they were perhaps flagging the result and not the action. Which happens.

I would go further and say that the rule needs to be changed and something like what happened with Quick not be viewed as an Offensive Foul any longer. Like it used to be back in the day. It's a basketball move. If he doesn't have the space to go up with the shot, then how is that his fault? He didn't extend his elbow or anything egregious like that. The funny thing is, if that was Cam's hand on Quick's elbow as opposed to his chin, it becomes a Defensive Foul instead. Explain that?? It's getting pretty stupid. If I go up for a shot in a normal shooting motion, but your face is in the way, it's an Offensive Foul on me? Absolutely insane.

[ShawkFactory]

I would go further and say that the rule needs to be changed and something like what happened with Quick not be viewed as an Offensive Foul any longer. Like it used to be back in the day. It's a basketball move. If he doesn't have the space to go up with the shot, then how is that his fault? He didn't extend his elbow or anything egregious like that. The funny thing is, if that was Cam's hand on Quick's elbow as opposed to his chin, it becomes a Defensive Foul instead. Explain that?? It's getting pretty stupid. If I go up for a shot in a normal shooting motion, but your face is in the way, it's an Offensive Foul on me? Absolutely insane.

Well because it would be impeding his ability to operate offensively by hitting his arm.

I think most of us agree with the "let them just play" idea but when something happens that throws off the guy on either end then something has to be called. They create a black and white position out of something that's gray but that's the way it's been for a while now.

You can get annoyed you got called because someone's face was in the way of your shooting motion, but they'll turn around and get annoyed that they got called because you knocked them backwards while they had their hands up in a legal defensive position.

Is what it is, but the defensive guys suffer more.

[beasted]

I’ve been wondering for a long time now what people think specifically is happening when they see lopsided free-throw totals. Do you think that while negotiating A 50+ billion dollar media deal the NBA is down to risk the scandal of ordering referees to throw a January game versus the Raptors? Or do you imagine that because a ref was caught gambling every time a team takes a bunch of free throws the ref owes money to the Kansas City mob? And learned nothing from that previous guys life being destroyed, and him being incarcerated, losing millions in fees and lost salary, and sparking changes in the ref contract that allows the league to peer into their personal lives and track their movements?

do you assume it’s a ref being a fan like that one ref was accused of being for the Celtics?

Id just like to know what you think the mechanism is and the reasoning to fix such a game. I don’t care that you think it’s fixed. I don’t need whatever evidence you think suggests that because I don’t care. You look hard enough every single game has some fan on both sides, saying it’s rigged. Even early in big blowouts. You search for “rigged” or “fixed” and your teams name you’ll find it literally 100% of the games everyone plays. In basketball and football at least. I saw a Washington fan going off about the national title game being rigged. I don’t care. Thats just sports.

So let’s skip that part ok? The part where you try to justify thinking it’s rigged. Think it. I don’t mind.

What I want to know who you think is responsible for it, and what they hoped to achieve in this situation that doesn’t get dwarfed in comparison to the risk being taken to achieve it.

NBA is not NBRA. I think you have to recognize that the referees are a union by themselves. A couple of referees can band together to sway the outcome due to a bet one of their family members or friends placed.

[SATAN]

There's no way OP watched the game. And just stating 23-2 without delving into how those fouls occurred is extremely intellectually lazy. I seen the retards on Reddit melting down about it before coming here lol. This has blown up because the Raptors coach acted like a baby and it's against the Lakers.

There were a couple of questionable calls but the way this has been exaggerated is crazy. Half the games this season have had some similar calls.

[beasted]

Remember this rant? Same ref, same Raptors team. Coincidence? :confusedshrug:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1LBdT4_FU

[Axe]

23 FTs to 2 is wild. The league is trying to make sure LA makes the playoffs.
They are desperately trying to because they want a hallway series in the playoffs so badly...

[Jasper]

Please Mod's watch Patsy and his posts on NBA forum ... he has already ruined two forums on ISH

[ILLsmak]

This was a flagrant foul: https://x.com/BrickMuse/status/1744980089736180089?s=20


:facepalm

and1 lol

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Well because it would be impeding his ability to operate offensively by hitting his arm.

I think most of us agree with the "let them just play" idea but when something happens that throws off the guy on either end then something has to be called. They create a black and white position out of something that's gray but that's the way it's been for a while now.

You can get annoyed you got called because someone's face was in the way of your shooting motion, but they'll turn around and get annoyed that they got called because you knocked them backwards while they had their hands up in a legal defensive position.

Is what it is, but the defensive guys suffer more.

It's a block, he has no right to that space. Good finish thru traffic.

-Smak

[jayfan]

1. Fantastic rant by Darko. :applause:



2. For those still wondering why Christian Wood keeps getting dropped by teams, Lebron just told you at the end of his interview.

.

[ILLsmak]

Which is more likely? That every game fan say is rigged is rigged? Or that fans are ****ing stupid?



What's the risk, again? Do a thought exercise. Lay out a case for the NBA being rigged. Assume the evidence is there. No one is flipping. The only info you have is outcomes, albeit OUTCOMES ON VIDEO. How would you go about proving the hypothesis? How often could it be a fluke? You can point to situations where it obviously seemed rigged, but you can say it's a fluke.

We know star players get more calls, right? Why? Why would they give them calls, given the risk? It could potentially ruin the nba. lol.

The real issue is that for the most part, people don't care, and there are certain teams that have a lot larger fanbases. The NBA does stand to make money from better match ups, true.

It could actually be a level of official incompetence, but in a different way than you suggest. Instead of having it be officials just make mistakes (repeatedly, one sidedly,) they could have been giving the Lakers calls and maybe some overzealous whistling led to them getting way more than they should have, and then it's like... we have to call that, we have to call that. As for the 2, I dunno. 2 FT in an NBA quarter is surprisingly low. They could have easily cleaned that up a little, at least in the last two minutes. But, since it was super close, maybe not. If they get more fts, they might win, ey?

I understand why people don't want to think the NBA is rigged, but it's entertainment. It's like wanting to think the guys aren't all on PEDs.

If it's just bad officials, why do these guys who have been bad for like 20-30 years still have jobs? haha.

I would go as far as to say it's ludicrous for someone to come out and say the NBA is in no way rigged; that it's all about fair competition, etc. The question, then, is to what extent. Is this an example? I can't say. But to scoff at the idea that the NBA is not completely fair, that every bad call is a not a 'mistake,' I just don't understand it.

It would be different if we didn't know officials showed favoritism to players. Why wouldn't extend beyond that?

So to answer your question, there isn't really any risk. People don't care enough, and there would be no way to actually prove it was fixed unless they got some guys on the inside to come out.

Do you not believe in stuff like Vegas/gambling and the mafia, either?

-Smak

[Full Court]

This kind of thing has been happening since not just the dawn of basketball, but sports in general. People only complain because they don't like Lebron or the Lakers. But when it's happening to their guy/team I'm sure we wouldn't hear a peep from them.

Maddux, Pedro, and Clemens had a larger strikezone than the average. Jordan and his teams got the benefit of the doubt. So did the Patriots with Brady.

It happens. It's a natural subconscious response for refs and the league to favor their top people. Nobody likes getting bitched at, partuclarly by Jordan, Brady, Maddux, etc.

This is true, and I don't think there's some grand conspiracy at play here, but 23-2 has to be one of the biggest 4th quarter free throw discrepancies ever.

This goes beyond just bad officiating or a missed call or two.

[bladefd]

Excluding intentional fouls by the Raptors in the last minute, the discrepancy is 15-2. The Raptors didn't do much to get to the ft line themselves and lakers were not aggressive defensively either.

There were probably a few touch fouls the lakers got that could have been no-calls.

[warriorfan]

I’m not saying last game was rigged but to some who say rigging never takes place or is impossible



Are the chances higher that an NBA game has never been rigged or influenced to further an agenda during the entire history of the game?

Or that it has happened at least once before

[ShawkFactory]

This is true, and I don't think there's some grand conspiracy at play here, but 23-2 has to be one of the biggest 4th quarter free throw discrepancies ever.

This goes beyond just bad officiating or a missed call or two.

Perhaps. But the "beyond" to me just means pure chance. During the Tmac/Yao era I once saw the Rockets, as a team, miss their first 14 FTs.

Weird shit happens. And that's not the say that the Lakers didn't get favorable calls. But the number is just a trivia answer.

[tpols]

If it's just bad officials, why do these guys who have been bad for like 20-30 years still have jobs? haha.

I would go as far as to say it's ludicrous for someone to come out and say the NBA is in no way rigged; that it's all about fair competition, etc. The question, then, is to what extent. Is this an example? I can't say. But to scoff at the idea that the NBA is not completely fair, that every bad call is a not a 'mistake,' I just don't understand it.

It would be different if we didn't know officials showed favoritism to players. Why wouldn't extend beyond that?

So to answer your question, there isn't really any risk. People don't care enough, and there would be no way to actually prove it was fixed unless they got some guys on the inside to come out.


Bingo on the whole post.

As far as the bolded goes it was proven in court and top level refs went to prison over it. Of course they're just the patsy's for their bosses and higher level players, but it's already been proven. They just acted like it was one rogue ref or whatever and not systemic corruption. And most people bought that story @Kblaze included.

The WWE and WWF are known to be literally 100% scripted as to who the winners are and at their peaks in the 90s and 80s and early 00s they had one of the biggest fanbases ever.

Something being rigged doesn't make the casual herd not watch even if it's proven. They just want high level entertainment.

[Patrick Chewing]

ATH crew talking about it. Izzy Gutierrez talking about the Flagrant 2 on Quickley for the inadvertent elbow to the face and how ridiculous of a call it is in the NBA rule book.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5prIxWfdc

[Kblaze8855]

From what you mention about the case I don’t think you even followed it. Since I like to know what I’m talking about I got the book. There is much more information in the book gaming the game though. It’s on audible if you care to be informed. It’s by an ex cop who looked into it and talked to his people.

Dude was actually so unreliable when claiming other refs would provide a certain outcome they started fading his picks because he was clearly full of shit and losing more than he won. The only games he could predict would cover were his own. For one stretch he was like 88 percent. The gambler guy kept meticulous notes. it’s actually a very detailed history of how it’s all done. If you care enough that is.

The investigator and other gamblers think Donaghy is the biggest lying piece of shit. Terrible gambler. He just like to talk big about what other refs were doing but his success predicting it proved he didn’t know what he was talking about at all.

his information was worse than a coin flip when it came to predicting other peoples outcomes. Guy has records tracking it all. It is pretty interesting but not as basketball related as you’d like. It’s pretty much about gambling and his bookies.

A lot of the shit you’re talking about with higher-level people is nowhere to be found. I imagine you’d say it’s because they want it that way, but ignoring the people who actually put work into research is what the casual conspiracy theorist is expected to do I guess.

you listen to 10 hours of reports with eyewitnesses who have records, and what he himself says, what it comes down to is, if his game covers the spread, he could get a fee and trying to get more fees….he would lie about knowing other refs were cheating and then be wrong so often they stopped letting him do that. He would just predict games would cover because he thought they would and then if they did, he would tell his people it was rigged to get the payoff. They figured it out pretty quick and cut him off.

he was basically basically rain making the mob. A guy tells you if you pay him, he can make it rain. If it rains he takes the credit and the payment. If it doesn’t, he chocks it up to bad luck and tells you to pay him more next time.

Hes lucky he didn’t get killed when they figured out he was lying about knowing what others were doing. They lost a lot of money, figuring that out.

[tpols]

Yes you fell for the propaganda hit piece. That doesn't surprise me. There's been countless examples of the league favoring certain outcomes that would lead to much more lucrative business but a book tailor made to absolve the overall industry at the expense of a patsy is definitely not gonna happen when there's many many many billions of dollars on the line.

You probably still believe Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, 9/11 wasn't orchestrated for justification of the invasion of the middle east and protection of the petro dollar, and that all elite financial entities in this world haven't constantly lied to you and the masses for their own personal benefit.

You're the worst type of sheep. Smart enough to articulate, but a total sellout on every level. You're Sam Jackson's character in Django. :roll:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZGYwODMxMDEtNTY5OS00MDJkLTk0YzQtMjgxZDcxNzBkYm YxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjUwNzk3NDc@._V1_.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

Bingo on the whole post.

As far as the bolded goes it was proven in court and top level refs went to prison over it. Of course they're just the patsy's for their bosses and higher level players, but it's already been proven. They just acted like it was one rogue ref or whatever and not systemic corruption. And most people bought that story @Kblaze included.

The WWE and WWF are known to be literally 100% scripted as to who the winners are and at their peaks in the 90s and 80s and early 00s they had one of the biggest fanbases ever.

Something being rigged doesn't make the casual herd not watch even if it's proven. They just want high level entertainment.

What does this have to do with anything? :lol

WWE is a television program. It's no different than any TV show aside from having actors performing live stunts.

You're reaching.

[tpols]

What does this have to do with anything? :lol

WWE is a television program. It's no different than any TV show aside from having actors performing live stunts.

You're reaching.

It has to do with everything.

The premise laid down was that the NBA would crumble if fans found out it was rigged in certain ways.

Yet the WWE and WWF were known to be rigged sporting events flat out and drew massive followings still.

Not hard to comprehend the analogy.

[SATAN]

You are so smart, man. Thank you for allowing us sheep to witness your almighty wisdom. :roll:

:facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

It has to do with everything.

The premise laid down was that the NBA would crumble if fans found out it was rigged in certain ways.

Yet the WWE and WWF were known to be rigged sporting events flat out and drew massive followings still.

Not hard to comprehend the analogy.

pro wrestling not exactly a sporting event

[ShawkFactory]

It has to do with everything.

The premise laid down was that the NBA would crumble if fans found out it was rigged in certain ways.

Yet the WWE and WWF were known to be rigged sporting events flat out and drew massive followings still.

Not hard to comprehend the analogy.

Well no...it's just a bad analogy :confusedshrug:

The only ground you have to stand on is that the WWE pertains to athletics. That's it. There is no actual competitive aspect of it, nor is it a "sport" that people play. It has always had a following because of the ridiculous storylines, personalities, and skills involved with the actors. It's closer to watching an HBO drama each week to find out what happens than it is an athletic competition. No one who has ever followed it closely, other than maybe little kids, has had any illusions about what it is.

You're trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

[tpols]

pro wrestling not exactly a sporting event

Pro wrestlers were some of the best athletes around. They took harder hits than football players which is why so many died young. The result was scripted, but the damage and athleticism wasn't. 250-400lb acrobats flying through the air and slamming each other around. Nobody cared that it was scripted. They just wanted a show. Which is all sports.

[tpols]

It's closer to watching an HBO drama each week to find out what happens than it is an athletic competition.


Thats the point dummy. That's NBA basketball too to a huge degree. Its an entertainment league. The league promotes their cash cows and always has. Even with my favorite players. That's why as it pertains to this thread they gave the Lakers a 23-2 FT edge against the nobody raptors.

The NBA has huge financial incentive to get the Lakers to the playoffs where they will draw ratings and money. And they won't make anything off the current raptors.

[ILLsmak]

Hes lucky he didn’t get killed

Skimmed, but this part is real. That book + how it went away is probably why he didn't haha.

Edit: not gonna call anyone a sheep tho, but it is my firm belief, and yea I do have conspiratorial beliefs, but I also feel humans are naturally conspirators, especially when control / money comes into play. It's just really hard to believe that it's fair. If it was fair, I would really like it.

I never really cared about it when I watched bball. There was the 'home cooking' stuff, and MJ got stupid calls, but I wasn't like AHHH it's RIGGED FOR DA MONEY, but now that I look back it's like wew.

-Smak

[ShawkFactory]

Thats the point dummy. That's basketball too to a huge degree. The league promotes their cash cows and always has. Even with my favorites players. That's why as it pertains to this thread they gave the Lakers a 23-2 FT edge against the nobody raptors.

The NBA has huge financial incentive to get the Lakers to the playoffs where they will draw ratings and money. And they won't make anything off the current raptors.

No, that's your point. I'm making a counterargument. Sometimes people do that.

Sports exist in the nature of athletic competition. Professional athletes are not actors, and fans watch because of this. Of course they want to be entertained but if everything was scripted then no one would watch. Even if it's my favorite team, if it the outcome was predetermined then I wouldn't care.

That's not to say that there isn't inherent bias in a way that games can be officiated. But as I've mentioned these biases are more subconscious and the reasoning behind it is varied. You're taking the extra leap in saying that they're officiated a certain way to determine an outcome. Which I don't agree with.

[ILLsmak]

Professional athletes are not actors, and fans watch because of this.

That would be the ideal. Nobody really 100% has accepted it's 100% rigged / scripted regardless or they wouldn't be able to enjoy it at all haha.

That's another thing, people want to act like it's just salty fans who think this, but if you really believed that it always was, you would be throwing away one of your greatest passions. So we are all actually in SOME level of denial. Most people when I say stuff they are like yea I know, but...

And it does seem like at times it was worse. I don't know if sports have always been this way, but once people realize a way to make money, they do it. It's all calculated out. Again: the risk spoken of is not really a risk. It's the same level of risk congress people have with insider trading. They only get got when they are sacrificed.

Why can't they just call every NBA game the same? There shouldn't be that much of a variance. It shouldn't be like playoff games, they let more go, they let more go toward the end of the game, etc. Each one of those 'truths' that we know allow for more anomalies to happen and for us to chalk them up to coincidence.

It's def worth repeating like dude said: if you believe it's never been rigged in any circumstance, I disagree. I would like to hear a list of names who believe the NBA has never influenced any outcomes.

-Smak

[ShawkFactory]

That would be the ideal. Nobody really 100% has accepted it's 100% rigged / scripted regardless or they wouldn't be able to enjoy it at all haha.

That's another thing, people want to act like it's just salty fans who think this, but if you really believed that it always was, you would be throwing away one of your greatest passions. So we are all actually in SOME level of denial. Most people when I say stuff they are like yea I know, but...

And it does seem like at times it was worse. I don't know if sports have always been this way, but once people realize a way to make money, they do it. It's all calculated out. Again: the risk spoken of is not really a risk. It's the same level of risk congress people have with insider trading. They only get got when they are sacrificed.

Why can't they just call every NBA game the same? There shouldn't be that much of a variance. It shouldn't be like playoff games, they let more go, they let more go toward the end of the game, etc. Each one of those 'truths' that we know allow for more anomalies to happen and for us to chalk them up to coincidence.

It's def worth repeating like dude said: if you believe it's never been rigged in any circumstance, I disagree. I would like to hear a list of names who believe the NBA has never influenced any outcomes.

-Smak

Well I think there's a line that can be drawn that some aren't able to do. It's either all or nothing with some people.

Do I believe that there has never been any sort of sway towards a player or team? Of course not. Although I do tend to err towards it being more on a case-by-case basis though. Meaning that the outcome of the game isn't necessarily the question, but on any particular play a ref is more likely to give benefit of the doubt to Lebron and the Lakers, or Kobe/Jordan/etc. And there are a lot of reasons for this. But I don't believe the reason is simply "make the Lakers win".

Believing that there is bias in these things is not the same as thinking that all of these outcomes are predetermined or that it's rigged. Like everything in life there is a middle ground and a lot of factors at play.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes you fell for the propaganda hit piece. That doesn't surprise me.



What doesn’t surprise me is your continued insistence on speaking with authority about subjects you don’t actually care enough about to look into. Always have a lot to say with no information. And actually take pride in your lack of information because the possibility the information that can only come from the people in question might be tainted.

You prefer no information at all because it’s easier to to maintain your beliefs with total ignorance than to risk being given bad information. You actually wrap yourself in ignorance out of fear of where knowledge might come from and talk yourself up like an authority.

You almost never know what you’re talking about because you’re so convinced you’re right you aren’t willing to accept new information. I’d rather find out I’m wrong than keep talking without any information. But we are very different people.

Keep talking about a scandal you refuse to get any information about that wasn’t covered in a two minute sports center clip you don’t even remember watching. What possible info could be gained by hearing what the culprit himself and the guys he worked with have to say?

The information pulled directly from your ass is what we should all go off of.

[tpols]

Professional athletes are not actors.


Wrong.

Which is exactly why I brought up the WWE and WWF. Those wrestlers certainly are professional world class athletes, and yet actors at the same time. The two titles aren't mutually exclusive. And the NBA is no different. With many billions of dollars on the line the league will support their revenue makers. Not a hard concept to follow. It's not a conspiracy theory... it's the cold hard facts of business.

You can plug your thumbs in your ears and sing to yourself but it doesn't change that reality. Money is money and business is business. The crowds want to be entertained and the people who orchestrated it all want to max that out. Most billionaire owners don't care about winning rings. It's a business to them. They want money and prestige over all else.

[ILLsmak]

Well I think there's a line that can be drawn that some aren't able to do. It's either all or nothing with some people.

Do I believe that there has never been any sort of sway towards a player or team? Of course not. Although I do tend to err towards it being more on a case-by-case basis though. Meaning that the outcome of the game isn't necessarily the question, but on any particular play a ref is more likely to give benefit of the doubt to Lebron and the Lakers, or Kobe/Jordan/etc. And there are a lot of reasons for this. But I don't believe the reason is simply "make the Lakers win".

Believing that there is bias in these things is not the same as thinking that all of these outcomes are predetermined or that it's rigged. Like everything in life there is a middle ground and a lot of factors at play.

I don't think it's like that every time, either, but I do think sometimes it's like 'hit the spread,' or so and so is having a good game, make them win, etc. Excitement is a factor, too. It doesn't need to happen every single time for it to be rigged, imo. I'm sure there are games that play out... there are a whole bunch of games... without any real influence, but as the games get more important, etc. It's kinda like Dwight Howard and his superman dunk or Blake jumping over the car. You can say that is ASG stuff so it doesn't matter, but it's the same idea... it's hype.

It's not like THE ILLUMINATI / NEFARIOUS DEVILWORSHIPPERS etc... it's just big biz. I think that's where people push back against rigging is they don't realize what 'we' are saying. It's just not fair competition. It could be, but it's not. People are so ****ing stupid and arrogant that they don't realize they could make as much or probably MORE money if they just let them play legit. It's human nature, though. Probably more money goes into their pockets, but the overall money I think would be better, and the product would be better if they just let dudes play every game and if some team full of nobodies won 3 rings in a row, who cares. It's good ball.

Again, tho, I don't know how much fans wanna see good ball, opposed to be like OWNED UUU, so there is partial fault with them as well. Still, I would love for them to make a league that wasn't rigged. College is rigged, too, d1 at least. Not sure how far down you have to go to get a normal basketball game, but the thought of these guys going at it full force (nohomo) with no ref bs is a wet dream to me.

-Smak

[SATAN]

Wrong.

Which is exactly why I brought up the WWE and WWF. Those wrestlers certainly are professional world class athletes, and yet actors at the same time. The two titles aren't mutually exclusive. And the NBA is no different. With many billions of dollars on the line the league will support their revenue makers. Not a hard concept to follow. It's not a conspiracy theory... it's the cold hard facts of business.

You can plug your thumbs in your ears and sing to yourself but it doesn't change that reality. Money is money and business is business. The crowds want to be entertained and the people who orchestrated it all want to max that out. Most billionaire owners don't care about winning rings. It's a business to them. They want money and prestige over all else.

:roll:

[ShawkFactory]

Wrong.

Which is exactly why I brought up the WWE and WWF. Those wrestlers certainly are professional world class athletes, and yet actors at the same time. The two titles aren't mutually exclusive. And the NBA is no different. With many billions of dollars on the line the league will support their revenue makers. Not a hard concept to follow. It's not a conspiracy theory... it's the cold hard facts of business.

You can plug your thumbs in your ears and sing to yourself but it doesn't change that reality. Money is money and business is business. The crowds want to be entertained and the people who orchestrated it all want to max that out. Most billionaire owners don't care about winning rings. It's a business to them. They want money and prestige over all else.

This is when you know someone is digging their heels in the sand :lol

I never said actor and athlete were mutually exclusive. You taking it there is weird.

I'll just circle the line of logic here since I know once you get started talking you tend to lose your grip on things:

1. Someone claimed that people wouldn't watch sports if it was completely scripted
2. You told them to look at the WWE
3. I said people don't watch the WWE for the same reasons as actual sports
4. You then proceeded to mention how athletic WWE stars are and continue to impress that they are comparable entities.

That sound about right?

[tpols]

I never said actor and athlete were mutually exclusive.


You quite literally said that word for word and multiple people quoted you on it lmao.

[ShawkFactory]

You quite literally said that word for word and multiple people quoted you on it lmao.

You're playing a semantics game. Which is how you know that the point isn't a strong one.

Professional athletes are not actors is what I said. I didn't say they can't be; WWE stars being a very specific exception. Unless you also want to call TV/movie stuntmen athletes too, which wouldn't help your point and would further the discussion into semantics and away from your actual point.