United Airlines to recruit less qualified pilots in the name of diversity & inclusion

[Baller234]

CEO says he wants 50% of their aviation classes to be "women or people of color".

https://twitter.com/realmichaelseif/status/1746712871248015467

https://media4.giphy.com/media/J2DYCDA15pTau86IGr/giphy.gif

It's become such a cliche at this point but we really are living in the Twilight Zone.

[rawimpact]

A company that openly admits they do not hire the most qualified individual because of essentially affirmative action is atleast transparent.

But because of that, I'll do my part in the interest of protecting myself and my family by no longer using their services.


Same reason I am picky about healthcare providers.

[JohnnySic]

https://i.gifer.com/BVKF.gif

[TeflonDonTrump]

https://i.gifer.com/BVKF.gif

Lol

[diamenz]

yeah i'm not buying into this. although i understand how one would be inclined to given today's social climate but the last thing UA wants is to be holding the bag for hundreds of their passengers dead. not exactly good for business. it's probably more along the lines of what this twitter user said:


Every large publically held company and most private companies have DEI goals. What this means is if you have two equally qualified candidates, and one is in a protected class, you make an offer to them first. No one is hiring unqualified people.

this is a good example of the right not properly picking their battles and instead just looking for something to bitch about. but show me evidence saying otherwise and i'd be more than open to admiting i'm wrong.

[highwhey]

yeah i'm not buying into this. although i understand how one would be inclined to given today's social climate but the last thing UA wants is to be holding the bag for hundreds of their passengers dead. not exactly good for business. it's probably more along the lines of what this twitter user said:



this is a good example of the right not properly picking their battles and instead just looking for something to bitch about. but show me evidence saying otherwise and i'd be more than open to admiting i'm wrong.

this is why i say you lean right. notice how you "call out" the right with courtesy, like your walking on eggshells bc you're afraid that fatrickchewing and the other mouthbreathers will turn against you.

if you were calling out the left, you'd post some meme and not bother with an explanation.

[Media Moderator]

https://i.gifer.com/BVKF.gif

This is the guy Biden put in charge of selecting our air traffic controllers. They want more people with disabilities running operations. I mean look at him :oldlol:

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/images/key_officials/bio_benison.jpg

[diamenz]

this is why i say you lean right. notice how you "call out" the right with courtesy, like your walking on eggshells bc you're afraid that fatrickchewing and the other mouthbreathers will turn against you.

if you were calling out the left, you'd post some meme and not bother with an explanation.

yeah i'll own that more or less. do lean right socially. i've made that clear a whole handful of times.

[highwhey]

yeah i'll own that more or less. do lean right socially. i've made that clear a whole handful of times.

:cheers:

[Baller234]

yeah i'm not buying into this. although i understand how one would be inclined to given today's social climate but the last thing UA wants is to be holding the bag for hundreds of their passengers dead. not exactly good for business. it's probably more along the lines of what this twitter user said:



this is a good example of the right not properly picking their battles and instead just looking for something to bitch about. but show me evidence saying otherwise and i'd be more than open to admiting i'm wrong.

I dunno, the CEO states pretty clearly that he's aiming for all recruiting classes to be at least 50% women and people of color. That means by default more qualified candidates and hopefuls are going to be denied.

[FultzNationRISE]

I dunno, the CEO states pretty clearly that he's aiming for all recruiting classes to be at least 50% women and people of color. That means by default more qualified candidates and hopefuls are going to be denied.

This is not necessarily true.

If 50 qualified white candidates apply, and you create a recruiting class with 100 spots, you could include all 50 qualified white people and still fill 50% of the class with other applicants.

In practice I dunno if it's financially feasible to include that many slots in their program or not, but in theory it is at least possible to do without denying anyone.

[Baller234]

This is not necessarily true.

If 50 qualified white candidates apply, and you create a recruiting class with 100 spots, you could include all 50 qualified white people and still fill 50% of the class with other applicants.

In practice I dunno if it's financially feasible to include that many slots in their program or not, but in theory it is at least possible to do without denying anyone.

If there are 100 spots, you fill those spots with the most qualified applicants period. If that results in 99 white applicants then so be it. If it results in 99 non-white applicants then so be it. There is literally no way you can have an even 50/50 split but also guarantee that you're hiring the best candidates. The moment you instill a race/gender quota... you are de-prioritizing merit.

Also let the record show that this is only perceived as a problem when a field is dominated by white males. You would never hear anyone complain that the U.S. math team is too asian, that an NBA basketball team is too black, or that the nursing field is too female.

The push for "diversity" only ever comes at the expense of white males.

[ArbitraryWater]

this is why i say you lean right. notice how you "call out" the right with courtesy, like your walking on eggshells bc you're afraid that fatrickchewing and the other mouthbreathers will turn against you.

if you were calling out the left, you'd post some meme and not bother with an explanation.

He sure leans right on this one, in fact hes leaning very right, while youre leaning extremely wrong / retarded

[highwhey]

He sure leans right on this one, in fact hes leaning very right, while youre leaning extremely wrong / retarded

i haven't even shared an opinion in this thread, but i have always said affirmative action is silly.

[Off the Court]

I am against this but I do have to ask, if they all achieved their license then aren't they all qualified?

How would one licensed pilot be more qualified than another?

Obviously none of these guys have a wreck on their record, even with collisions it is hard to rank car drivers in terms of who is a better driver.

[Overdrive]

If there are 100 spots, you fill those spots with the most qualified applicants period. If that results in 99 white applicants then so be it. If it results in 99 non-white applicants then so be it. There is literally no way you can have an even 50/50 split but also guarantee that you're hiring the best candidates. The moment you instill a race/gender quota... you are de-prioritizing merit.

Also let the record show that this is only perceived as a problem when a field is dominated by white males. You would never hear anyone complain that the U.S. math team is too asian, that an NBA basketball team is too black, or that the nursing field is too female.

The push for "diversity" only ever comes at the expense of white males.

For some jobs there are minimim critereas. If you believe they drop them to include blacks or whatever you can be sure they did drop them in the past to hire whites or do a friend a favour or whatever.

The reality of any business is that the business is either strict in its rules, affirmative action or not, or they are loose about them, then it wouldn't matter either anyway.

[rawimpact]

I am against this but I do have to ask, if they all achieved their license then aren't they all qualified?

How would one licensed pilot be more qualified than another?

Obviously none of these guys have a wreck on their record, even with collisions it is hard to rank car drivers in terms of who is a better driver.

Not much of a critical thinker are you? Flight hours, flight levels/stripes, flight school, employment history, aircraft-specific experience and so on...

[Off the Court]

Not much of a critical thinker are you? Flight hours, flight levels/stripes, flight school, employment history, aircraft-specific experience and so on...

Not much of a thinker at all are you? None of those things suggest another licensed pilot is less qualified. They all have to graduate with a pilots license which in turn "qualifies" them to fly certain planes.

My grandmother has driven a car more than you, is it a fact that she is more qualified driver than you are?

[Media Moderator]

My grandmother has driven a car more than you, is it a fact that she is more qualified driver than you are?

My crazy nephew just got his license at 16. Does that mean he's as qualified as you to drive a car.

I'm not sure how we've gotten to the point of hiring people based on the color of their skin. Why does the left always keep trying to tweak things so that when the problem is fixed, they circle it around closer to back when there was a problem?

[Overdrive]

My crazy nephew just got his license at 16. Does that mean he's as qualified as you to drive a car.

I'm not sure how we've gotten to the point of hiring people based on the color of their skin. Why does the left always keep trying to tweak things so that when the problem is fixed, they circle it around closer to back when there was a problem?

I'm sure the upper echelons of ultra capitalistic companies are leftists.

[Off the Court]

My crazy nephew just got his license at 16. Does that mean he's as qualified as you to drive a car.

I'm not sure how we've gotten to the point of hiring people based on the color of their skin. Why does the left always keep trying to tweak things so that when the problem is fixed, they circle it around closer to back when there was a problem?

Yes, if your nephew achieved his license we are literally equal in driving qualification.

Again, I do not agree with basing anything on skin color, that is wrong in my opinion. But if someone has obtained their pilots license and is qualified to fly, then they are qualified to fly.

[Baller234]

Yes, if your nephew achieved his license we are literally equal in driving qualification.

Again, I do not agree with basing anything on skin color, that is wrong in my opinion. But if someone has obtained their pilots license and is qualified to fly, then they are qualified to fly.

You mean like Brandon choosing Kamala Harris as his VP and nominating Kentaji Brown Jackson for the supreme court?

[bladefd]

Not much of a thinker at all are you? None of those things suggest another licensed pilot is less qualified. They all have to graduate with a pilots license which in turn "qualifies" them to fly certain planes.

My grandmother has driven a car more than you, is it a fact that she is more qualified driver than you are?

Yes, if you have your commercial pilot license, you are well-qualified to fly such planes. There are mandatory training hours required for you to fly that type of plane and have the full training to do it before they ever even approve your license. Sure, some pilots may be more experienced but they all are fully qualified.

My dad's friend is a private plane pilot. Before he got the license, he had to spend a mandatory amount of hours flying the sort of plane he was trying to get a license for. You have to pass exam that I believe includes written test and practical test where you have to prove yourself to the inspector flying the sort of plane you are applying for license. There is also a complicated renewal process, but I don't know the specifics. I think it's much different than renewing a car driver's license. Look it up to see what FAA requires.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Reagan fired air traffic controllers in '81 and the Republicans cheered.

[rmt]

I don't know about you but I would want a surgeon operating on me or a pilot flying the plane I'm on - to be the best possible surgeon/pilot - not just someone who graduated at the bottom of the class or the minimum hours flown. Sure they're all "qualified" but when you use race/gender as the determining factor, (IMO) that's just not right. There should be other MERITOCRATIC measures/ratings that can pick out better surgeons/pilots than SKIN COLOR or (should I even say) genitalia (with all the ambiguity about what a woman is).

[rmt]

And why isn't there equal interest in evening out the gender of teachers or nurses - I don't see such a push for male teachers/nurses. Ah yes, privilege.

And as Elon asks Cuban (regarding DEI), "When are we going to see a short, Asian female on the Mavs?"

[bladefd]

I don't know about you but I would want a surgeon operating on me or a pilot flying the plane I'm on - to be the best possible surgeon/pilot - not just someone who graduated at the bottom of the class or the minimum hours flown. Sure they're all "qualified" but when you use race/gender as the determining factor, (IMO) that's just not right. There should be other MERITOCRATIC measures/ratings that can pick out better surgeons/pilots than SKIN COLOR or (should I even say) genitalia (with all the ambiguity about what a woman is).

What about if you have 2 equally qualified pilots and the airline offers the job to a woman first instead of the man?

It's easy to say if you have a choice between minimum hours flown vs someone with 30yr experience. Of course, you would choose 30yr experience. However, that isn't the issue here.

Here's the actual argument unlike the nonsense tweet in the OP.


“Over the next decade, United will train 5,000 pilots who will be guaranteed a job with United, after they complete the requirements of the Aviate program – and our plan is for half of them to be women and people of color,” said United CEO Scott Kirby in the 2021 press release. “We’re excited that JPMorgan Chase has agreed to support our work to diversify our pilot ranks and create new opportunities for thousands of women and people of color who want to pursue a career in aviation.”

Cuban took to Twitter/X again to refute Musk’s claim saying, “This is a training school. Once they graduate, it’s a multi year process to have an OPPORTUNITY to pilot for United.”

“Since I’m a nice guy and want you to be fully informed, I’ll share with you the benefit of the 60 seconds I spent looking for how the program works. BTW, looks like multiple layers of merit based evaluations before they can fly for United…,” Cuban continued in a Tweet.

This is a training school. Once they graduate, it’s a multi year process to have an OPPORTUNITY to pilot for United.https://airlinegeeks.com/2024/01/14/billionaires-feud-over-airline-pilot-hiring/

It has nothing to do with hiring but rather recruiting for training school. Think about it for a second.

So they ALL begin with 0 flying hours. Nobody has more flying experience than anybody else. 500 applicants go through multi-year training from scratch with no pilot license and no knowledge of how to fly a commercial flight. At the end of training, they get their license and practical experience of flying a commercial flight.

They would all probably have just about equal experience and flight hours on graduation day. Exam scores/gpa might vary though. I don't think it means they would all get hired though.

[warriorfan]

blade should apply since he’s handicapped

[Overdrive]

and our plan is for half of them to be women and people of color

I know it's besides the topic, but these people are payed relatively good money to write press releases and it happens regularely that they use the wrong conjunctions/logical connectives.

Propositional logic is a field of maths and quite important when making statements. When someone says half of x has to be y AND z. It means both requiremwnts have to be fullfilled.

So among 100 pilots there would have to be 50 black women for example.

[SouBeachTalents]

You mean like Brandon choosing Kamala Harris as his VP and nominating Kentaji Brown Jackson for the supreme court?
First of all, his name is Joe, not Brandon. Second, fvck you, Kamala was chosen based on her experience and qualifications.

[rmt]

First of all, his name is Joe, not Brandon. Second, fvck you, Kamala was chosen based on her experience and qualifications.

If God forbid something happens to Biden, it would not give you a moment of doubt when Kamala becomes President of the United States? That thought is horrifying to me.

[rmt]

I know it's besides the topic, but these people are payed relatively good money to write press releases and it happens regularely that they use the wrong conjunctions/logical connectives.

Propositional logic is a field of maths and quite important when making statements. When someone says half of x has to be y AND z. It means both requiremwnts have to be fullfilled.

So among 100 pilots there would have to be 50 black women for example.

LOL - not to be a spelling monitor to match your grammarian ways - but paid, regularly, math, requirements, fulfilled (apologies if misspelling is deliberate on your part).

But, yes - "OR"

[tpols]

First of all, his name is Joe, not Brandon. Second, fvck you, Kamala was chosen based on her experience and qualifications.

If blowing the mayor of San Francisco is a qualification Kamala has a PHd.

[Overdrive]

LOL - not to be a spelling monitor to match your grammarian ways - but paid, regularly, math, requirements, fulfilled (apologies if misspelling is deliberate on your part).

But, yes - "OR"

Other than that guy I'm no english speaking native, am not paid(sic!) and didn't proofread my post while I was on the bowl.

Also I don't mind being corrected. The problem is in this day and age as a company you should be aware what you tell the public. People might pick up wrong messages.

[rmt]

What about if you have 2 equally qualified pilots and the airline offers the job to a woman first instead of the man?

It's easy to say if you have a choice between minimum hours flown vs someone with 30yr experience. Of course, you would choose 30yr experience. However, that isn't the issue here.

Here's the actual argument unlike the nonsense tweet in the OP.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2024/01/14/billionaires-feud-over-airline-pilot-hiring/

It has nothing to do with hiring but rather recruiting for training school. Think about it for a second.

So they ALL begin with 0 flying hours. Nobody has more flying experience than anybody else. 500 applicants go through multi-year training from scratch with no pilot license and no knowledge of how to fly a commercial flight. At the end of training, they get their license and practical experience of flying a commercial flight.

They would all probably have just about equal experience and flight hours on graduation day. Exam scores/gpa might vary though. I don't think it means they would all get hired though.

I have no problem with anyone of any gender or skin color being recruited or hired as long as they are EQUALLY qualified. I assume they have some criteria for recruiting into this flight school. So based on this criteria, if a hypothetical 251st ranked white male (just outside the allotment of 250 white/male) is declined in favor of a hypothetical 501st ranked black woman, (IMO) that is where the problem will be - based on quota for gender/skin color instead of recruiting criteria. It'll be an end around to the Harvard/Asian ruling - prioritizing race and "life experiences" (as told in essay) in lieu of exam scores, gpa, merit-based evaluations.

[Media Moderator]

Reagan fired air traffic controllers in '81 and the Republicans cheered.

It's what happens when you get arrogant and greedy. Regan had both the public support and courts behind him. He crushed them like an aluminum can

[rmt]

Other than that guy I'm no english speaking native, am not paid(sic!) and didn't proofread my post while I was on the bowl.

Also I don't mind being corrected. The problem is in this day and age as a company you should be aware what you tell the public. People might pick up wrong messages.

Not a native English speaker - it's FANTASTIC that you picked up on the "AND/OR" error then. I wish I could speak any second language :-(

[Overdrive]

Not a native English speaker - it's FANTASTIC that you picked up on the "AND/OR" error then. I wish I could speak any second language :-(

Well, boolean operators are the same in any language. It's just the spelling I get often pretty wrong, alot of errors also come from typing on my phone.

I wish I had time to train a 3rd language again. If you visit high school here you atleast learn two non native languages, but my italian and latin became no existent over time.

[rmt]

Well, boolean operators are the same in any language. It's just the spelling I get often pretty wrong, alot of errors also come from typing on my phone.

I wish I had time to train a 3rd language again. If you visit high school here you atleast learn two non native languages, but my italian and latin became no existent over time.

Spell check :-) Just curious - what is your native language?

I'm a big tennis fan, and it tickles me pick when Federer and Djokovic switch languages so seamlessly.

[Overdrive]

Spell check :-) Just curious - what is your native language?

I'm a big tennis fan, and it tickles me pick when Federer and Djokovic switch languages so seamlessly.

German. Swiss people like Federer are something else. They usually know atleast 4 languages by default and often italian aswell.

I turned off spellcheck, because it tends to correct similar words in both languages.

[FultzNationRISE]

Yes, if your nephew achieved his license we are literally equal in driving qualification.

Again, I do not agree with basing anything on skin color, that is wrong in my opinion. But if someone has obtained their pilots license and is qualified to fly, then they are qualified to fly.

Why do you have to be 25 years old to rent a car and pay lower insurance premiums than a 16 year old?

[FultzNationRISE]

My crazy nephew just got his license at 16. Does that mean he's as qualified as you to drive a car.

I'm not sure how we've gotten to the point of hiring people based on the color of their skin. Why does the left always keep trying to tweak things so that when the problem is fixed, they circle it around closer to back when there was a problem?

The answer is obvious, it is to absorb everyone into the economic sphere already owned by the current elites, rather than giving other groups impetus to start their own businesses, which the current elite would have no cut of the profits in.

[bladefd]

I have no problem with anyone of any gender or skin color being recruited or hired as long as they are EQUALLY qualified. I assume they have some criteria for recruiting into this flight school. So based on this criteria, if a hypothetical 251st ranked white male (just outside the allotment of 250 white/male) is declined in favor of a hypothetical 501st ranked black woman, (IMO) that is where the problem will be - based on quota for gender/skin color instead of recruiting criteria. It'll be an end around to the Harvard/Asian ruling - prioritizing race and "life experiences" (as told in essay) in lieu of exam scores, gpa, merit-based evaluations.

We don't know their training recruitment policies. And we don't even know if everyone who passes their training school would definitely get hired by United - it doesn't seem like a guaranteed job is waiting for them, but I don't know. It could also be all PR bs to make themselves look a certain way. There is a lot we don't know so what Elon musk tweeted & OP tweet is based on what they "hear" rather than any inside information or facts we are not privy to.

This is a fact: Over 96% of U.S.-based pilots are male, while 85% are White, according to career data site Zippia. So if a company says they want more diversity going forward from the training aspect, why are you quick to assume they will train incompetent fools?

[Baller234]

We don't know their training recruitment policies. And we don't even know if everyone who passes their training school would definitely get hired by United - it doesn't seem like a guaranteed job is waiting for them, but I don't know. It could also be all PR bs to make themselves look a certain way. There is a lot we don't know so what Elon musk tweeted & OP tweet is based on what they "hear" rather than any inside information or facts we are not privy to.

This is a fact: Over 96% of U.S.-based pilots are male, while 85% are White, according to career data site Zippia. So if a company says they want more diversity going forward from the training aspect, why are you quick to assume they will train incompetent fools?

Hey dipshit, the OP contains video featuring the United CEO's own words.

[rmt]

We don't know their training recruitment policies. And we don't even know if everyone who passes their training school would definitely get hired by United - it doesn't seem like a guaranteed job is waiting for them, but I don't know. It could also be all PR bs to make themselves look a certain way. There is a lot we don't know so what Elon musk tweeted & OP tweet is based on what they "hear" rather than any inside information or facts we are not privy to.

This is a fact: Over 96% of U.S.-based pilots are male, while 85% are White, according to career data site Zippia. So if a company says they want more diversity going forward from the training aspect, why are you quick to assume they will train incompetent fools?


Whether some will acknowledge it or not, certain careers are more suited to one gender than the other. Pilots travel a lot - away from family and children. Just as nursing is predominantly female oriented, so too is piloting more conducive to those who are not primary care-givers.


The failure rate is already high, and flight school looks to be prohibitively expensive:

What percentage of student pilots get their license? One statistic commonly quoted is based on a 2011 study by the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, which found only 20% of flight school students achieve their private pilot certification. The FAA official numbers, which compares the number of student pilot certificates issued against the number of private pilot certificates issued, puts the number of successful students at 44%.

https://www.kingskyfa.com/post/why-some-people-fail-pilot-training/#:~:text=The%20FAA%20official%20numbers%2C%20which ,of%20successful%20students%20at%2044%25.


Pilot Training Cost
How Much Money is Flight School?
Below is an outline of how much flight training costs through ATP's Airline Career Pilot Program. ATP quotes prices based on realistic flight time requirements, providing up-front, fixed-cost pricing for becoming a pilot.

Start from
Private Pilot Certificate Start from
Zero Experience
Aviation Tuition to Become a Commercial Pilot
Flight Training Cost $83,995 $104,995
Additional Expenses (Not Included in Program)
FAA Examiners' Fees & Knowledge Test Fees
(Paid Directly to Examiner & Third-Party Provider) $8,400 $9,200
Third Party Apps $200 (varies) $200 (varies)
iPad, Headset, Flight Bag & Other Pilot Gear $1,600 (varies) $1,600 (varies)

https://atpflightschool.com/become-a-pilot/flight-training/pilot-training-cost.html


5 Best Degrees for Becoming a Pilot:

1. Bachelor of Aviation
The most common type of higher education to pursue for aspiring pilots is a bachelorÂ’s degree in aviation. Some higher education institutions offer this degree as part of a Bachelor of Science (BS) program, and others offer aviation education as part of a Bachelor of Arts (BA) program. Both cover everything you need to know to be a pilot.

Many Bachelor of Aviation programs award you with full commercial pilot certification upon completion. The vast majority of commercial airliners require that their pilots have a full four-year degree prior to training, and these applicants are viewed more favorably.

2. Bachelor of Science in Aviation Technology - If you have experience as a military pilot or youÂ’ve already spent time in the air in another setting, a BS in aviation technology is a good path to getting your wings.

3. Bachelor of Science in Aerospace Engineering - still need hundreds of hours of flying experience
4. Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical Science - ditto
5. Bachelor of Science in Air Traffic Management - ditto

https://ctipft.com/5-best-degrees-for-becoming-a-pilot/#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20type%20of,of%20Arts %20(BA)%20program.

[rmt]

Hey dipshit, the OP contains video featuring the United CEO's own words.

LOL - awkward - where interviewer asks him about his own C-suite. 4/11 - maybe this CEO ought to concentrate on getting his own executives 50% women or people of color before going after the pilots.

[Media Moderator]

The answer is obvious, it is to absorb everyone into the economic sphere already owned by the current elites, rather than giving other groups impetus to start their own businesses, which the current elite would have no cut of the profits in.

Interesting, I must admit. Would be surreal if the global elites collectively think this way and toss this subject around when they get together. Like a some kind of Dan Brown or Tom Clancy novel come to life

[Media Moderator]

If blowing the mayor of San Francisco is a qualification Kamala has a PHd.

I don't think enough people realize how Kamala sucked and f**ked her way to the top. :oldlol:

It's a matter of record that her career took off after she started to sleep with powerful men who had a hand in furthering her career

[Norcaliblunt]

Why would you fly these days?

Give me one good example beyond your wack ass job?

Gas prices?

Why not rail?

Oh yeah

Y’all slaves.