Game right now is 55-51 8 minutes left in the second.

[Kblaze8855]

2002 matchup of 49 and 50 win teams


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401170645340097.jpeg

[Kblaze8855]

We don’t need another this era or that era thing so I don’t care which you prefer right now. What I would like to know is when Given these two pieces of information, and no further context, how would you explain the difference to somebody who didn’t watch the NBA?

Let’s say they’re basketball fans on a local level from a small town in Europe, and never got into anything internationally.

They want to know what happened. Would you be able to give them a simple answer? And would that answer be nothing but three-pointers?

Would you tell them the players just got better?

I don’t care if that’s your answer, and I don’t plan to argue with you. I would just like to know what you would tell that person if they asked.

Sometimes the difference seems too drastic to just say “Rules” and “threes” but that’s about all you could say isn’t it?

I was just caught off guard by the score when I came in the house. You’d think I’d have adjusted internally by now but it something g always surprises me.

Again I don’t care if you like it more or you hate it. It just is what it is.

all I want to know is when Slava asks you “What happened?” what answer you give him.

[warriorfan]

Yet people cite kobe’s stats from that era and compare them straight up with modern guys :lol

[ILLsmak]

Analytics and rules.

There's no way that people can really think the players got that much better. haha.

Plus, you can see it in college where like old Big Ten games would be like 50-60 points and some of the other conferences would be scoring 70-80. They kinda fixed it now, but pace, how they call it, and really basketball is just different now.

I'd say son, come sit on my knee. Basketball... is just different now. Then I'd show him a clip of someone pump faking and taking another step.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

Yet people cite kobe’s stats from that era and compare them straight up with modern guys :lol


i’m not even going there. Harden is great. Kobe was great. I’m personally going to avoid that aspect.

But what do you say to Darko Slava-denkovic when he wants to know what the difference is?

[Carbine]

It's literally all about spacing and having 4 players minimum who can shoot the 3 at all times on the floor.

That's the difference. It's the most logical way to play considering the points it yields. If you try and play the way teams used to back in the day, with 2 sometimes 3 non shooting players on the floor good luck winning with that.

My question is what can be changed rule wise to make the defense able to win some more of these possessions?

The obvious answer would be to allow hand checking. I don't think the league cares though, they're printing money so why change it?

[iamgine]

We don’t need another this era or that era thing so I don’t care which you prefer right now. What I would like to know is when Given these two pieces of information, and no further context, how would you explain the difference to somebody who didn’t watch the NBA?

Let’s say they’re basketball fans on a local level from a small town in Europe, and never got into anything internationally.

They want to know what happened. Would you be able to give them a simple answer? And would that answer be nothing but three-pointers?

Would you tell them the players just got better?

I don’t care if that’s your answer, and I don’t plan to argue with you. I would just like to know what you would tell that person if they asked.

Sometimes the difference seems too drastic to just say “Rules” and “threes” but that’s about all you could say isn’t it?

I was just caught off guard by the score when I came in the house. You’d think I’d have adjusted internally by now but it something g always surprises me.

Again I don’t care if you like it more or you hate it. It just is what it is.

all I want to know is when Slava asks you “What happened?” what answer you give him.

Ehh I'd just say you picked an extreme example. 2002 games don't usually ended that low.

[Phoenix]

Sounds like an end of third score from a Pistons/Pacers game in 2003.

[ArbitraryWater]

78-78 at halftime LMAO

[ILLsmak]

The obvious answer would be to allow hand checking. I don't think the league cares though, they're printing money so why change it?

Are they?

I think hand checking and letting people be more physical around the rim. It's just too hard to stop someone 1 v 1 without being able to touch them.

It makes no sense to not be able to see space offense play against grind it out offense or more defense-focused. It would be way more interesting than the monotony. Is the league really successful now, tho? I didn't know.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

Ehh I'd just say you picked an extreme example. 2002 games don't usually ended that low.



of course they don’t. It’s extreme. But being in that vicinity wouldn’t be newsworthy. The Pistons did hold like five or six teams in a row below 70 points. I was actually trying to find a clip I already had years ago of the Nets and maybe the Pacers going into a fourth-quarter and one of them having I think 36 or 39 points.

A game ending 68 to 71 probably wouldn’t even get a mention. They would just show the final score and keep moving. Weird this about this particular game is both teams being that low.

[iamgine]

of course they don’t. It’s extreme.
Which is why that's what I'd say to Slava.

[bison]

If you were are a hardcore nba fan in 2002, and then fell into a coma and finally woke up today to catch this sixers nuggets game, then I’m sure this style of basketball is jarring. But for those of us who have been watching the game every night for the last 30 years, it shouldn’t feel like there’s been that big a change at all. You should have been immersed into it for a while now. I guess I don’t recognize the big difference even if the numbers make it clear because it’s like a frog in a pot of slowly boiling water effect. You just don’t notice it after a while.

[warriorfan]

Ehh I'd just say you picked an extreme example. 2002 games don't usually ended that low.

someone should check out how many games there were in 2002 where both teams didn’t score 100 points then see how many times it’s happened last season

[Kblaze8855]

Sounds like an end of third score from a Pistons/Pacers game in 2003.





https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401170721220365.jpeg

[Kblaze8855]

someone should check out how many games there were in 2002 where both teams didn’t score 100 points then see how many times it’s happened last season

Same year




"There are going to be games like this against a team like Denver -- they play hard and they junk the game up,'' Robinson said. "We just stayed in our game plan and I was able to get them off-balance a little in the fourth. Once that happened, it was all over.''
Denver led 29-28 at halftime, and the 57 combined points broke a 47-year-old record by one point. The Nuggets shot 37.5 percent for the half and turned the ball over eight times, while the Pistons hit 29 percent of their shots and had 11 turnovers.

[Kblaze8855]

Which is why that's what I'd say to Slava.

A few games earlier, the Raptors had 63 versus them. 80 is the lowest scored by either team in an NBA game last season. The games(team or opponent) from just the two teams in this graphic from just that season under 80? 28.

those really low games happened often enough I feel like you could give Slava an answer without saying it doesn’t happen every game.

that wasn’t even the elite Pistons D. They were sixth in opponent scoring that year.

[iamgine]

A few games earlier, the Raptors had 63 versus them. 80 is the lowest scored by either team in an NBA game last season. The games(team or opponent) from just the two teams in this graphic from just that season under 80? 28.

those really low games happened often enough I feel like you could give Slava an answer without saying it doesn’t happen every game.

that wasn’t even the elite Pistons D. They were sixth in opponent scoring that year.

Wait what happened to "I don’t plan to argue with you. I would just like to know what you would tell that person if they asked." :lol

[Kblaze8855]

I meant I wouldn’t argue with your answer. But Slava wants an answer.

[Wally450]

2002 matchup of 49 and 50 win teams


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401170645340097.jpeg

Paul Pierce and Jerry Stackhouse lead the game with a whopping ..... 19 points.

Ben Wallace 21 rebounds.

[iamgine]

I meant I wouldn’t argue with your answer. But Slava wants an answer.

I did answer him.

[SlimReaper]

3pointers, spacing, rules (no handchecking, even more relaxed traveling rules, 14 secs after off. rebounds).

Also, very few players seem to post up now (slows down the offense, makes it more predictable).

Carlisle (2nd best offense in history behind the '82 Nuggets) said this in 2019 (after he was asked why he doesn't make KP post up more):


“The post-up just isn’t a good play anymore. It just isn’t a good play. It’s not a good play for a 7-3 guy. It’s a low-value situation. Our numbers are very substantial that when he spaces beyond the 3-point line, you know, we’re a historically good offensive team. And when any of our guys go in there, our effectiveness is diminished exponentially. It’s counterintuitive, I understand that, but it’s a fact. I think there’s certain situations where it makes sense. If we can get him on a roll in the paint towards the rim, that’s a good situation. And that’s what we’ll try to do with all our guys.

We don’t post anybody up. We post Luka up every once in a while when he has a real small guy on him. But even those situations, the value of those situations has plummeted. We’ve got to realize that this game has changed. It’s changed. It’s just a fact....''

[Kblaze8855]

Kinda similar to what Mike Dantoni brother said when he was asked about not getting his bigs the ball for his college team:




"You see those top three teams. Golden State — do they work it [inside]? My brother in Houston, the biggest turnaround in the league — do they work it in? You can go get any computer and run what the best shots are and it will tell you the post-up is the worst shot in basketball. If you want to run down and try to get it [in the paint] to shoot over somebody, then you're beating analytics.

The best shot in basketball is that corner three. The next-best shot in basketball is any other three. Other than free throws, which we try to do, when you get to the foul line, you score 1.5 points every time you go to the foul line in the pros. It just trickles down. It's the same thing for college kids..."
When a reporter began to ask a question, D'Antoni cut him off, saying, "I haven't finished my damn analytics story yet." He continued:

"If you can get a layup and it's clean — it's not one that's highly contested — it's [worth] 1.8 points [per attempt]. It's 1.3 from that corner, 1.27. Do you know what a post-up is, with a guy standing over top of you? It's 0.78. So you run your team down there and we'll see how long you can stay with teams that can play the other way. You've seen it in the NBA. The last two championships have been Cleveland and Golden State. What do they do? You don't see anybody post up. They just spread that thing out and go."

D'Antoni said he changed his coaching philosophy years ago, saying he used to coach like a "dummy" by trying to force post-ups.

[Baller234]

I know OP said he didn't want to get bogged down in "this era versus that era"... but I just wanna say that I really appreciate lower scoring games where buckets aren't so easy to get.

I like the concept of teams having to work harder for a bucket. It means more. Every possession counts.

[dankok8]

A combination of four factors have all contributed to making it much easier to score points than in 2002.

- less physicality
- fewer paint protectors
- more spacing
- higher pace

[warriorfan]

I know OP said he didn't want to get bogged down in "this era versus that era"... but I just wanna say that I really appreciate lower scoring games where buckets aren't so easy to get.

I like the concept of teams having to work harder for a bucket. It means more. Every possession counts.

I’ve always for the most part enjoyed low scoring games. In football too. Every score ends up meaning more and the intensity level feels higher.