Superteam or not.

[Kblaze8855]

Just help me understand what your standard is for that term. Let’s say it’s an off-season and some team has cleared its books and they signed all three of these players at once all at the top of their game. Would you call it a new super team or not? Average unknown coach and middle of the pack supporting cast.



Drexler
Draymond Green
Kyrie



Stockton
Peja
Rashard Lewis


Anthony Davis
Ron Artest
Deron Williams



Jimmy Butler
Dikembe Mutombo
Gilbert Arenas


Lebron
Reggie Miller
Lamar Odom



Embiid
AK47
Alan Houston


Ja Morant
Kevin Martin
Dwight Howard


Shaq
Sam Cassell
Jason Tatum


Dirk
Marc Gasol
Ray Allen

Kobe
Antione Walker
Trae Young


Steph
Kevin Love
Ben Wallace


Jokic
Dominique Wilkins
Devin Harris


Chris Paul
Shawn Kemp
Luol Deng



Which of those teams would you immediately think “New superteam in ____” about? Any of them?

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq with another top 10 player and an all-star would have to qualify as a superteam imo. I think I'd have to give Dirk/Allen/Gasol the superteam label as well. The rest of them frankly aren't really close to qualifying as one, unless you just assign any championship caliber team as a superteam.

That Kobe team though, I would love to see that play out :lol

[Kblaze8855]

Antione today as a stretch/point center like Draymond with much better handles and scoring touch with Kobe at the 2 and a point who demands attention would at least be interesting. They might score 120 a game. What they give up would be the issue.

[Kblaze8855]

Also With all the players in their primes? I think this is at Least five Hall of Fame trios. Three prime Hall of Famer can sign to a team at the same time and not get called a super team? I suppose there is an offensive element to it.

Defensive hall of famers almost don’t count.

[Kblaze8855]

I suppose one could argue being a superstar is a bigger part of that labeling than being a Hall of Famer though. All superstars if they stay healthy and play a while will be in the Hall of Fame. But not all Hall of Famers are ever superstars. Hall of Fame is a higher honor, but not necessarily the greater player compared to a superstar who didn’t have a long run.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dirk/Gasol/Allen would be

[NBAGOAT]

my definition is simple, you need a big 3 of a superstar, all-nba lvl guy, and an all star lvl guy or better. They're all relatively proven too. Going into next year shai,chet, jalen williams could be that lvl but we still cant call them a superteam until they show it for a whole year.

So AD one, shaq one if you use 04 cassell, dirk one, steph one. Not counting the kobe team one since i personally dont think walker was all star lvl same for deng on cp3's team. ben wallace is all star lvl however even though he's not a traditional star.

[Kblaze8855]

He wasn’t some elite player but he was definitely all star level. We just forget how much standards have changed with the way teams play now

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401172339280389.jpeg

[ILLsmak]

Dirk/Gasol/Allen would be


Yeah, I think it has to be three 'the guys.' Gasol is fringe the guy but he's close enough.

The rest have a really good glue guy but I don't think it works.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

When are we saying Gasol was a “The guy” type? I could be remembering it wrong, but I feel like Zach Randolph was the one called on to do the most when those Memphis teams were peaking. Though maybe I’m conflating them beating the Spurs with them peaking because I know it wasn’t their best record. They were an 8th seed.

I do feel like if we give Marc that status it’s hard to keep it from guys like Mutombo who were also the best players on some good pretenders with good records.

[Reggie43]

Cassell would look like a tier better playing next to two Mvp caliber guys and playing with the modern rules. Easy 20 and 10 for him.

[Axe]

Any team with lebron in it is automatically a superteam, at least according to a braindead buffoon.

[Jasper]

giannis

dame

Middleton

A super team ?

Or with Lopez a super team ?? :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

The superteam standard is Wade/James/Bosh. Tatum isn't quite equal to the player Wade was when they first joined up. He's better than the player Wade was when it ended but Wade decline meant that was not a superteam. An impressive postseason run could change my opinion.

[Full Court]

Just help me understand what your standard is for that term. Let’s say it’s an off-season and some team has cleared its books and they signed all three of these players at once all at the top of their game. Would you call it a new super team or not? Average unknown coach and middle of the pack supporting cast.



Drexler
Draymond Green
Kyrie



Stockton
Peja
Rashard Lewis


Anthony Davis
Ron Artest
Deron Williams



Jimmy Butler
Dikembe Mutombo
Gilbert Arenas


Lebron
Reggie Miller
Lamar Odom



Embiid
AK47
Alan Houston


Ja Morant
Kevin Martin
Dwight Howard


Shaq
Sam Cassell
Jason Tatum


Dirk
Marc Gasol
Ray Allen

Kobe
Antione Walker
Trae Young


Steph
Kevin Love
Ben Wallace


Jokic
Dominique Wilkins
Devin Harris


Chris Paul
Shawn Kemp
Luol Deng



Which of those teams would you immediately think “New superteam in ____” about? Any of them?

The thing about "superteams," is that it's relative to the competition at the time. You can't really say any team is a superteam without the context of the other teams' composition. For example, there are a bunch of teams this season that would have been super teams 10 or 15 years ago, but there are a so many teams stacked with stars that you can't really say that. Really, the only super team this season is the Clippers.

Right now, none of those you listed should be considered superteams.

[elementally morale]

Just help me understand what your standard is for that term. Let’s say it’s an off-season and some team has cleared its books and they signed all three of these players at once all at the top of their game. Would you call it a new super team or not? Average unknown coach and middle of the pack supporting cast.



Drexler
Draymond Green
Kyrie



Stockton
Peja
Rashard Lewis


Anthony Davis
Ron Artest
Deron Williams



Jimmy Butler
Dikembe Mutombo
Gilbert Arenas


Lebron
Reggie Miller
Lamar Odom



Embiid
AK47
Alan Houston


Ja Morant
Kevin Martin
Dwight Howard


Shaq
Sam Cassell
Jason Tatum


Dirk
Marc Gasol
Ray Allen

Kobe
Antione Walker
Trae Young


Steph
Kevin Love
Ben Wallace


Jokic
Dominique Wilkins
Devin Harris


Chris Paul
Shawn Kemp
Luol Deng



Which of those teams would you immediately think “New superteam in ____” about? Any of them?

The bolded ones have at least two players who compliment each other exceptionally well. Dirk, Gasol and Ray Allen is a killer team. Shaq and Tatum are very close to Shaq and Kobe. Jokic with Dominique is just ridiculous. Butler, Mutombo and Arenas is also very good. Defense is there and what Butler won't do on offense, Arenas will.

[Xiao Yao You]

I thought Devin Harris was awful when he was here. Put his head down and drove to the hoop. That was his whole game

[ILLsmak]

When are we saying Gasol was a “The guy” type? I could be remembering it wrong, but I feel like Zach Randolph was the one called on to do the most when those Memphis teams were peaking. Though maybe I’m conflating them beating the Spurs with them peaking because I know it wasn’t their best record. They were an 8th seed.

I do feel like if we give Marc that status it’s hard to keep it from guys like Mutombo who were also the best players on some good pretenders with good records.

LA lol. Didn't you know you meant Marc. Sorry.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like Artest would either be an incredible defensive 4 to compliment AD at the 5 or totally neutered by the decreases in physical play. If he could be as effective as he was for the Pacers an AD/Ron/Deron lineup would be better than I think we are assuming.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The current era would make Artest the defender worse like it makes all defenders worse but he would still be a great defender compared to his peers. Defensively there's nothing Draymond Green does that Artest could not do in theory. I am not sure that the modern emphasis on threes would be good for his offense but it was a shot he could make, some seasons noticeably better than others.

Artest likely finds a way to be a very good player in any era, though his suspensions would be massive and he was crazy enough that I'm not sure he would be able to control himself in time to have a long career.

[Wally450]

I've personally never looked at 3 superstars on the same team as a superteam. 08 Celtics, 2010-2014 Heat, 2021 Nets. Never really thought they were superteams.

The only team I've ever considered a superteam were those Warriors teams. Literally unstoppable without injuries.

[Kblaze8855]

****ed up about Ron is he was legitimately working on himself when he had his worst incident. Jermaine O’Neal was telling the story once about how nobody knew Ron actually had a therapist the team provided trying to keep him sane. He was taught various exercises to calm down and not let things get out of hand. One of them was to get away from the situation, and to lay down and do his breathing and counting exercises.

That’s what he was doing on the table in Detroit. He had a little scuffle with Ben, and he had the sense to walk away and follow the therapist instructions. He lay right down to do his breathing exercises and the fan threw a drink on him from the crowd. I’d love to be a fly on the wall for the next therapy session.

[sdot_thadon]

Those are some interesting combinations and a bunch would be part of really good squads, but I'd only say 2 squads and wouldn't be completely sure about one.

Butler/Gil/Mutombo

Allen/Dirk/Gasol

Imo the term superteam gets thrown around way too loosely and now you damn near have to call every good team a superteam because you're counting Allstars or names or whatnot. And maybe the problem is Superstar designation gets handed over too easlu as well. Every allstar is not a superstar, most of your faclvorite players....are not superstars. Of course its eye test realm where you cant exactly quantify it but you know a superstar when you see one. Butnas far as what constitutes a superteam? My thoughts are somewhere between having 3 superstars and having 2 superstars with another elite guy whos the best at what they do. Or just an overwhelming collection of talent around a couple of elite guys. One thing I've definitely observed in this era is perhaps Superteams arenr as surefire as we once thought they were. Especially by the standards current fans have for them, they have a pathetic success rate overall......

[Manny98]

None of those would be considered "superteams" today

[Jasper]

The superteam standard is Wade/James/Bosh. Tatum isn't quite equal to the player Wade was when they first joined up. He's better than the player Wade was when it ended but Wade decline meant that was not a superteam. An impressive postseason run could change my opinion.

Tatum is not Boston , Brown is ... Tatum takes shoots primarily when the game is in hand , and plays hero ball.
Only one game this year I saw his full potential and it was against Minny. (ONE FVCK'n Game)

[SouBeachTalents]

I’m surprised so many people feel a peak Shaq/Tatum/Cassell wouldn’t be a superteam. Shaq would be the best player in the league, Tatum would arguably be the best 2nd option, and Cassell imo was under appreciated. He goes to Milwaukee, Minny and even the Clippers and they all improve pretty significantly. You put even an average supporting cast around them and they’d be the title favorites imo.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Tatum is not Boston , Brown is ... Tatum takes shoots primarily when the game is in hand , and plays hero ball.
Only one game this year I saw his full potential and it was against Minny. (ONE FVCK'n Game)

I am not required to give multiple responses to the same stupid opinion. You think what you think.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I’m surprised so many people feel a peak Shaq/Tatum/Cassell wouldn’t be a superteam. Shaq would be the best player in the league, Tatum would arguably be the best 2nd option, and Cassell imo was under appreciated. He goes to Milwaukee, Minny and even the Clippers and they all improve pretty significantly. You put even an average supporting cast around them and they’d be the title favorites imo.

They would be a championship favorite but to me a "superteam" is beyond that. It's a squad that you just can't see losing. If that squad had average defenders at the other two spots they are forced to make Tatum their stopper on the best opposing scorer and Shaq and Cassell would not be good for switching. So it is unstoppable offensively most games but if Tatum and Cassell have an off shooting game they are beatable.

[Kblaze8855]

Would you consider the Showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics super teams in retrospect, considering you have a requirement that you can’t see them losing? Wouldn’t that mean there’s a maximum of one super team at a time?

[Xiao Yao You]

Would you consider the Showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics super teams in retrospect, considering you have a requirement that you can’t see them losing? Wouldn’t that mean there’s a maximum of one super team at a time?

Celtics yes. Lakers no

[Real Men Wear Green]

Would you consider the Showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics super teams in retrospect, considering you have a requirement that you can’t see them losing? Wouldn’t that mean there’s a maximum of one super team at a time?
I didn't think that far about the statement but that would be a logical implication. I should allow for there being more than one superteam but there can't be several, the label should be reserved for an elite contender that can't win less than 60 and has a real shot at 65+.

[Kblaze8855]

Celtics yes. Lakers no

4 all star starters(3 hall of fame) and 2 hall of famers off the bench with a DPOY on top of it. Kareem the oldest and he was still elite at the time.

Not enough?

[Kblaze8855]

I didn't think that far about the statement but that would be a logical implication. I should allow for there being more than one superteam but there can't be several, the label should be reserved for an elite contender that can't win less than 60 and has a real shot at 65+.

well, now I just have to be difficult and point out that the Durant and Curry Warriors didn’t win 60 games in two of three seasons.

[SouBeachTalents]

We’re not considering the Showtime Lakers a superteam now, Jesus Christ :oldlol:

And I definitely don’t agree with RMWG’s definition of what constitutes a superteam. While I expected them to win the series, I honestly wouldn’t have been that surprised if the Warriors had lost to Houston in 2018.

[Real Men Wear Green]

well, now I just have to be difficult and point out that the Durant and Curry Warriors didn’t win 60 games in two of three seasons.

They also didn't care about the regular season and had a lot of missed games. That was the most talented team I've ever seen and if their care guys were all playing 75+ games their win totals would be well over 60.

[tpols]

A true super team combines two MVP talents like Shaq Kobe Lakers, Lebron Wade Heat, or Durant Curry warriors so none of these are technically super teams.

Best one is Dirk / Marc Gasol / Ray Allen imo. A weaker Spain team than that almost took out Kobe / Wade / Lebron Olympic team.

[Kblaze8855]

Not that it makes him a better player, but I think Dominique Wilkins was closer to being an MVP than Dwyane Wade ever was. I know he was second to bird one season and I think the closest Wade got was third in 2009 behind LeBron and Kobe. I imagine Kareem and Magic were eating each others votes at the time but Nique did get to second place.


Jokic and Nique would be straight highlight reel shit and win a lot. Devin Harris though…

[tpols]

Almost every team here would win a lot but you did Kobe dirty bro. Gave him some weak ass help mayne.

[Kblaze8855]

Is Trae the only player in the league getting absolutely no credit due to today’s stat friendly environment? He’s a career 26 and 10 player and he’s been to a conference final. He’s a bad defender but Kobe would be thankful considering some of what he’s worked with.

That team wouldn’t be the worst of these.

[tpols]

It's not so much Trae, but more Walker. How does one team get prime Ray Allen and another gets Antoine Walker? :lol

[Kblaze8855]

As the 3rd guy vs the 2nd. Weird thing going on here since 20 years ago Celtic fans considered me Antoines biggest hater but he’s probably become underrated since then. Ray Allen is older than him but I’m not sure you could trade Ray for Antione in 98. That young Walker who was athletic and a bit of a point power forward? Hes who I wanted Chicago to trade Pippen for towards the end.

He became something of a joke But I maintain the guy coming out of college and his first few years? He could go.

Coming into his prime developing into a tough shot guy in the best defense era ever made him look worse than his skill set.

Hed cook most bigs now off the dribble. Too strong and too quick. A mismatch vs most. Not a good shooter but someone you do have to close out on. He was shooting 37% taking seven threes a game at one point and we were disgusted about the seven threes. And I include myself.

He was born a bit too early. The right coach to make him stay physical and be a playmaker….hes a perennial all star type in this league. He was too far gone before he really came back into prominence as Pierces sidekick.

Young Kentucky and first few years Antione could have become something.

[Xiao Yao You]

4 all star starters(3 hall of fame) and 2 hall of famers off the bench with a DPOY on top of it. Kareem the oldest and he was still elite at the time.

Not enough?

Magic and Kareem and some other guys before Magic became just a role player.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not that it makes him a better player, but I think Dominique Wilkins was closer to being an MVP than Dwyane Wade ever was. I know he was second to bird one season and I think the closest Wade got was third in 2009 behind LeBron and Kobe. I imagine Kareem and Magic were eating each others votes at the time but Nique did get to second place.


Jokic and Nique would be straight highlight reel shit and win a lot. Devin Harris though…

Wilkens was just an overhyped high scoring sf. No where near the player Wade was no matter what the MVP voters thought of highlite reels

[Kblaze8855]

Magic and Kareem and some other guys before Magic became just a role player.


Calling hall of famers and all stars “other guys” doesn’t make them a normal lineup to be added to two mvp caliber players.

[Kblaze8855]

Wilkens was just an overhyped high scoring sf. No where near the player Wade was no matter what the MVP voters thought of highlite reels

This look like a 57 win lineup behind Nique?


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401190251560355.jpeg




Because it was.

4 straight really good teams that probably should have been about 500 tends to get a little love. The highlights wouldn’t have been enough to get the love he got at his peak. He had his team performing. Add Jokic?

They might play “super” even if they aren’t.

[elementally morale]

Dirk, Gasol and Ray Allen is a killer team. Shaq and Tatum are very close to Shaq and Kobe. Jokic with Dominique is just ridiculous. Butler, Mutombo and Arenas is also very good. Defense is there and what Butler won't do on offense, Arenas will.

I feel very good about my selections. The Dirk team needs more defense and the Jokic team needs some outside shooting. Harris instead of Murray is bad but Nique and Jokic is otherworldly good. Peak Shaq and Tatum can obviously win it all. The Butler team is a dark horse.

[Xiao Yao You]

This look like a 57 win lineup behind Nique?


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2401190251560355.jpeg




Because it was.

4 straight really good teams that probably should have been about 500 tends to get a little love. The highlights wouldn’t have been enough to get the love he got at his peak. He had his team performing. Add Jokic?

They might play “super” even if they aren’t.

played D. Dominique wasn't the one defending. Scoring a lot of points inefficiently with a lot of hype he was though

[Xiao Yao You]

Calling hall of famers and all stars “other guys” doesn’t make them a normal lineup to be added to two mvp caliber players.

Worthy doesn't make a super team as far as I'm concerned sorry I realize I'm in the minority. Good player, overrated

[Kblaze8855]

He led the league in scoring shooting 47% and 82% from the line on a good team with Randy Wittman as his second option when he was second in mvp voting. I know you don’t like to acknowledge the players you don’t like do any good things, but it’s hard to argue he wasn’t a great player at the time. He was having 38ppg months on 49/45/82. He wasn’t out there dunking and getting credit for it while not putting in work and leading a good team.

[tpols]

I feel very good about my selections. The Dirk team needs more defense and the Jokic team needs some outside shooting. Harris instead of Murray is bad but Nique and Jokic is otherworldly good. Peak Shaq and Tatum can obviously win it all. The Butler team is a dark horse.

Marc Gasol was a DPOY and Ray was a very good man defender. Dirk for most of his career played with bum centers and the second he got a decent one in tyson chandler they went on a tear. And grizzly Marc was easily better than chandler. Adding a Bucks Ray Allen to the mix is just overkill.

Most of these teams have mediocre 3rd options but that team is loaded across all three.

Kobe was easily better than Tatum too. Shit Penny was probably better as well and Shaq got swept with him. Not to say Tatum isn't good but he's not on that MJ Kobe Wade level at all.

[Kblaze8855]

Worthy doesn't make a super team as far as I'm concerned sorry I realize I'm in the minority. Good player, overrated

putting aside how weird it is to not like both Nique and worthy when they represented such different things and worthy was out there unselfishly playing a role and playing defense shooting like 57 or 58%….

He was the 6th leading scorer on the team I mentioned. The 8th leading was Michael Cooper. That is a….lot.

[Xiao Yao You]

He led the league in scoring shooting 47% and 82% from the line on a good team with Randy Wittman as his second option when he was second in mvp voting. I know you don’t like to acknowledge the players you don’t like do any good things, but it’s hard to argue. He wasn’t a great player at the time. He was having 38ppg months on 49/45/82. He wasn’t out there dunking and getting credit for it while not putting in work and leading a good team.

He was another high scoring sf. There were better ones playing at the same time without the hype because they weren't hopping and dunking on ESPN highlites. The advanced stats now back up what I always thought of him. He had high usage and took a lot of shots. Not the kind of player that impresses me. Your type of guy not mine

[Xiao Yao You]

putting aside how weird it is to not like both Nique and worthy when they represented such different things and worthy was out there unselfishly playing a role and playing defense shooting like 57 or 58%….

He was the 6th leading scorer on the team I mentioned. The 8th leading was Michael Cooper. That is a….lot.

6th leading scorer in the HOF. Thanks Magic!

[Kblaze8855]

He was another high scoring sf. There were better ones playing at the same time without the hype because they weren't hopping and dunking on ESPN highlites. The advanced stats now back up what I always thought of him. He had high usage and took a lot of shots. Not the kind of player that impresses me. Your type of guy not mine


obviously, impressing you isn’t a prerequisite to being considered an all-time great considering how many people who don’t impress you are in the Hall of Fame. I don’t care about that. You don’t like a lot of legends. You shit talk talk polar opposites like Dominique Wilkins and Jason Kidd, and downplay people in the middle who play both sides of the ball, focus on winning not numbers, and are incredibly efficient like James worthy. There is no consistent set of traits that makes you not like a player. You just don’t like people. And that’s fine. You’re allowed to not like people. I don’t like Karl Malone. It happens.

Doesnt mean anyone makes the hall of fame without being objectively good.

[Kblaze8855]

6th leading scorer in the HOF. Thanks Magic!

you’re not seeing the connection between a team having its 5th and 6th leading scorer be in the hall and it’s 8th be a DPOY and them being a superteam when it’s added to two mvps an additional hall of fame starter and an all star who is none of the above?

Its an unbelievably stacked lineup.

[Xiao Yao You]

obviously, impressing you isn’t a prerequisite to being considered an all-time great considering how many people who don’t impress you are in the Hall of Fame. I don’t care about that. You don’t like a lot of legends. You shit talk talk polar opposites like Dominique Wilkins and Jason Kidd, and downplay people in the middle who play both sides of the ball, focus on winning not numbers, and are incredibly efficient like James worthy. There is no consistent set of traits that makes you not like a player. You just don’t like people. And that’s fine. You’re allowed to not like people. I don’t like Karl Malone. It happens.

Doesnt mean anyone makes the hall of fame without being objectively good.

the basketball HOF is weak. Good is certainly subjective. Great should be a prerequisite for the HOF. If Sloan was fired when he should have been and not had two of the all time greats playing every night for two decades he's probably not in Springfield. If Pippen doesn't play with MJ. If Worthy doesn't play with Magic. If Parker doesn't play with Duncan... I liked Vlade. Do I think he should be in the HOF? :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

you’re not seeing the connection between a team having its 5th and 6th leading scorer be in the hall and it’s 8th be a DPOY and them being a superteam when it’s added to two mvps an additional hall of fame starter and an all star who is none of the above?

Its an unbelievably stacked lineup.

They were deep like lots of teams of the time. Two all timers before Kareem became a limited role player. Super team? Haven't been many that I would call super teams

[Kblaze8855]

the basketball HOF is weak. Good is certainly subjective. Great should be a prerequisite for the HOF. If Sloan was fired when he should have been and not had two of the all time greats playing every night for two decades he's probably not in Springfield. If Pippen doesn't play with MJ. If Worthy doesn't play with Magic. If Parker doesn't play with Duncan... I liked Vlade. Do I think he should be in the HOF? :lol


there would be more credibility there if you weren’t on here talking about your favorite player being all NBA When he beats out the considerably declined competition at the center spot. You’re on here hating on 10 time all NBA guys. Defensive players of the year. Unbelievably efficient two-way players with a sack of rings. Brilliant defenders and passers who were on multiple teams for the greatest success they ever achieved.

You have no real standard for what makes anybody good other than you happening to like them. You have called players as wildly varied as Mark Eaton and Allen Iverson my type. I don’t really have a type. I just acknowledge there are certain things you can’t accomplish while not being good. Like being a top 20 scorer in NBA history. Things like being the MVP. All NBA first team multiple times. There are things bad players simply cannot accomplish. At best given the number of injuries and unusual circumstances someone who is merely good, can accomplish the least of these types of thing.

Nobody Has ever seen me not acknowledge the greatness of even the players I hate most. Didn’t like Malone. He’s obviously one of the greatest players of all time. Reggie Miller is definitely overrated in retrospect but you can’t score 25,000 points in the NBA, and not be a great player.

You struggle to acknowledge that some of the greatest players in history are even good at basketball. Suggest a bit of a disconnect with reality or letting emotion overrule your common sense.

In a world where even somebody like Mo Pete was good Dominique Wilkins is definitely something more than that.

[Xiao Yao You]

there would be more credibility there if you weren’t on here talking about your favorite player being all NBA When he beats out the considerably declined competition at the center spot. You’re on here hating on 10 time all NBA guys. Defensive players of the year. Unbelievably efficient two-way players with a sack of rings. Brilliant defenders and passers who were on multiple teams for the greatest successfully ever achieved.

You have no real standard for what makes anybody good other than you happening to like them. You have called players as wildly varied as Mark Eaton and Allen Iverson my type. I don’t really have a type. I just acknowledge there are certain things you can’t accomplish while not being good. Like being a top 20 scorer in NBA history. Things like being the MVP. All NBA first team multiple times. There are things bad players simply cannot accomplish. At best given the number of injuries and unusual circumstances someone who is merely good, can accomplish the least of these types of thing.

Nobody Has ever seen me not acknowledge the greatness of even the players I hate most. Didn’t like Malone. He’s obviously one of the greatest players of all time. Reggie Miller is definitely overrated in retrospect but you can’t score 25,000 points in the NBA, and not be a great player.

You struggle to acknowledge that some of the greatest players in history are even good at basketball. Suggest a bit of a disconnect with reality or letting emotion overrule your common sense.

In a world where even somebody like Mo Pete was good Dominique Wilkins is definitely something more than that.

your type is whomever you can argue with someone else about. My type is guys I like. Didn't like Wilkens or Eaton. There were players at the same time who did what he did at the same position better rather they weren't as hyped, or in a smaller market or not as exciting to the average viewer or whatever. The advanced stats back up what I thought of him as a kid. If you like guys with high usage that take a lot of shots he's your guy. I need more. I liked other guys on that team. I don't have to like the guy that I'm told to like by the media because he scores a lot of points and ESPN likes his highlites

[Kblaze8855]

They were deep like lots of teams of the time. Two all timers before Kareem became a limited role player. Super team? Haven't been many that I would call super teams

They won 5 titles despite no less than 2 playoffs being derailed by injuries to hall of famers. I don’t think “Like lots of teams” is a fair appraisal for the talent level. But the absolute bare minimum praise to not be summarily executed for crimes against the game have become your standard.

[Xiao Yao You]

They won 5 titles despite no less than 2 playoffs being derailed by injuries to hall of famers. I don’t think “Like lots of teams” is a fair appraisal for the talent level. But the absolute bare minimum praise to not be summarily executed for crimes against the game have become your standard.

Every team didn't have Magic or Bird. In fact only two teams had them. They made everyone look good except maybe Rambis.

[Kblaze8855]

your type is whomever you can argue with someone else about. My type is guys I like. Didn't like Wilkens or Eaton. There were players at the same time who did what he did at the same position better rather they weren't as hyped, or in a smaller market or not as exciting to the average viewer or whatever. The advanced stats back up what I thought of him as a kid. If you like guys with high usage that take a lot of shots he's your guy. I need more. I liked other guys on that team. I don't have to like the guy that I'm told to like by the media because he scores a lot of points and ESPN likes his highlites



nobody has to like anybody. But when it interferes with your ability to be objective and honest, then you’re going to have problems when you set out to talk about these people with others.

Let me ask you a really simple question.


Was Dominique good? The mere existence of other Hall of Fame players who were similar or better in your opinion isn’t an answer to that question. Was the man good?

Was Jason Kidd good?

Can you answer both those questions in the affirmative?

[tpols]

Every team didn't have Magic or Bird. In fact only two teams had them. They made everyone look good except maybe Rambis.

James Worthy was the #1 draft pick, star ahead of MJ in college, and had some epic playoffs runs.

:biggums:

Why would you have ĥate for that and act like Magic enhanced some scrub?

[Xiao Yao You]

nobody has to like anybody. But when it interferes with your ability to be objective and honest, then you’re going to have problems when you set out to talk about these people with others.

Let me ask you a really simple question.


Was Dominique good? The mere existence of other Hall of Fame players who were similar or better in your opinion isn’t an answer to that question. Was the man good?

Was Jason Kidd good?

Can you answer both those questions in the affirmative?

sure they were good. Were they as good as the hype or would I want them on my team? No ****in' way!

Eaton otoh was not good. Being big does not equate to being good. You go to youtube and tell me otherwise :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

James Worthy was the #1 draft pick, star ahead of MJ in college, and had some epic playoffs runs.

:biggums:

Why would you have ĥate for that and act like Magic enhanced some scrub?

He was a junior when MJ was a freshman. There was a pecking order in those days. Freshmen weren't expected to be your best player especially at a power. MJ of course hit the game winning shot to win the championship.

Didn't call him a scrub. One of the all time greats though? Never saw that when I watched him. Didn't think he was a whole lot better than Scott who isn't considered an all time great

[tpols]

He was a junior when MJ was a freshman. There was a pecking order in those days. Freshmen weren't expected to be your best player especially at a power. MJ of course hit the game winning shot to win the championship.

Didn't call him a scrub. One of the all time greats though? Never saw that when I watched him. Didn't think he was a whole lot better than Scott who isn't considered an all time great

He was extremely efficient and productive at the highest levels of competition... how did that not impress you? He wasn't like The Bum shooting 39%. He was shooting high 50s% against dynasty defenses and teams.

[Xiao Yao You]

He was extremely efficient and productive at the highest levels of competition... how did that not impress you? He wasn't like The Bum shooting 39%. He was shooting high 50s% against dynasty defenses and teams.

He was a nice role player. Should he have started the all star game every year and been considered one of the best players in the game because he was lucky enough to play with Magic? I didn't see it.

[ShawkFactory]

He was a nice role player. Should he have started the all star game every year and been considered one of the best players in the game because he was lucky enough to play with Magic? I didn't see it.

He could have been the best player on several teams. They wouldn't have won anything. But most teams who's best player aren't the top of the top don't.

His standing in the league was probably like a Jamal Murray type guy. Pretty special for the 3rd best player on a team but I don't think anyone considered him one of the best in the game.

Although I know you have a weirdly loose and vague definition of "one of the best" (Toody) so maybe he was then.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jordan Clarkson is good at basketball.

[Xiao Yao You]

He could have been the best player on several teams. They wouldn't have won anything. But most teams who's best player aren't the top of the top don't.

His standing in the league was probably like a Jamal Murray type guy. Pretty special for the 3rd best player on a team but I don't think anyone considered him one of the best in the game.

Although I know you have a weirdly loose and vague definition of "one of the best" (Toody) so maybe he was then.

As the # 1 pick you'd hope he would have been the best player somewhere. Was he better than Terry Cummings who was taken after him by the Clippers? Debatable. I'd probably take Cummings. Who knows what happens if he gets to play next to Magic instead of being on the worst franchise in sports at the time.

7 straight all-star games. Fans probably voted him to most of those if I recollect right. 50 and 75 greatest players ever teams. All NBA twice. Sounds like one of the best ever to me and unlike Gobert he never made a bad team good except maybe in high school? N. Carolina and the LA Lakers. The guy had a tough road! :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Jordan Clarkson is good at basketball.

obviously opinions vary there. I played and think I was pretty fair for a 6 footer that can't jump and I can't even imagine the mindset it would take to think that is the way to play any team sport let alone basketball but again that's just me.

[ShawkFactory]

7 straight all-star games. Fans probably voted him to most of those if I recollect right. 50 and 75 greatest players ever teams. All NBA twice. Sounds like one of the best ever to me and unlike Gobert he never made a bad team good except maybe in high school? N. Carolina and the LA Lakers. The guy had a tough road! :lol

When was he given the opportunity to? Being lucky enough to be on a great team isn't a knock.

Murray was probably not the best comp. Maybe more like a slightly poor mans Booker.

[tpols]

He could have been the best player on several teams. They wouldn't have won anything. But most teams who's best player aren't the top of the top don't.

His standing in the league was probably like a Jamal Murray type guy. Pretty special for the 3rd best player on a team but I don't think anyone considered him one of the best in the game.

Although I know you have a weirdly loose and vague definition of "one of the best" (Toody) so maybe he was then.

James Worthy was a far better player and talent than Jamal Murray. Yall are tripping.

[Xiao Yao You]

When was he given the opportunity to? Being lucky enough to be on a great team isn't a knock.

Murray was probably not the best comp. Maybe more like a slightly poor mans Booker.

it's not a knock but should he be elevated to one of the best ever because he played with one of the all time greats as a role player?

[Xiao Yao You]

James Worthy was a far better player and talent than Jamal Murray. Yall are tripping.

Murray the # 2 guy on a championship team. Worthy the #3 guy on championship teams

[tpols]

Murray the # 2 guy on a championship team. Worthy the #3 guy on championship teams

James Worthy led the entire NBA in points scored in the 1988 playoffs, won FMVP and the championship while Kareem averaged 13/4.

You truly are out of touch with reality making a statement like that.

[Xiao Yao You]

James Worthy led the entire NBA in points scored in the 1988 playoffs, won FMVP and the championship while Kareem averaged 13/4.

You truly are out of touch with reality making a statement like that.

Kareem was 5th in minutes played at age 40. Looking at the numbers it's hard to see how he deserved it over Magic. Scott even has an argument over the guy

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-finals-pistons-vs-lakers.html

shouldn't have even been there if it wasn't for a comedian and Mark Ivaroni anyway

[Kblaze8855]

As the # 1 pick you'd hope he would have been the best player somewhere. Was he better than Terry Cummings who was taken after him by the Clippers? Debatable. I'd probably take Cummings. Who knows what happens if he gets to play next to Magic instead of being on the worst franchise in sports at the time.

7 straight all-star games. Fans probably voted him to most of those if I recollect right. 50 and 75 greatest players ever teams. All NBA twice. Sounds like one of the best ever to me and unlike Gobert he never made a bad team good except maybe in high school? N. Carolina and the LA Lakers. The guy had a tough road! :lol


The big argument at the time was between he and Dominique, who the Lakers could have taken, but they chose worthy because he was willing to do exactly the things now being used against him. Not be the focal point. Play hard team ball. Be efficient and play D. Not rock the boat. Prioritize the team winning even if it means coming off the bench behind somebody he’s better than. Faced with the question Pat Riley explained that Dominique misses more shots in a season than James worthy takes. It was(narrowly) untrue at the time but it was generally understood that he was doing what was best for the team and not his personal statistics.

This kind of shit is exactly why so many young players come up with the mentality you hate. If more people wanted to be James worthy than Dominique Wilkins a lot of teams would function better. Comes in as the top pick and backs up Kurt Rambis. When he was approaching washed he went back to the bench so a kid could play over him.

Hes the kinda player you win with.

[tpols]

Who the **** cares how many minutes he played when he was averaging 13/4 and Worthy outscored the whole NBA on very good efficiency and won FMVP?

He was clearly the 2nd option at that point just like Murray but the difference is Murray could never outplay or win an award over Jokic.

You're on some wild shit here with your arguments.

[Xiao Yao You]

The big argument at the time was between he and Dominique, who the Lakers could have taken, but they chose worthy because he was willing to do exactly the things now being used against him. Not be the focal point. Play hard team ball. Be efficient and play D. Not rock the boat. Prioritize the team winning even if it means coming off the bench behind somebody he’s better than. Faced with the question Pat Riley explained that Dominique misses more shots in a season than James worthy takes. It was(narrowly) untrue at the time but it was generally understood that he was doing what was best for the team and not his personal statistics.

This kind of shit is exactly why so many young players come up with the mentality you hate. If more people wanted to be James worthy than Dominique Wilkins a lot of teams would function better. Comes in as the top pick and backs up Kurt Rambis. When he was approaching washed he went back to the bench so a kid could play over him.

Hes the kinda player you win with.

He played more than Rambis. I'd say a 20 point scorer Wilkes was blocking his way.

[Xiao Yao You]

Who the **** cares how many minutes he played when he was averaging 13/4 and Worthy outscored the whole NBA on very good efficiency and won FMVP?

He was clearly the 2nd option at that point just like Murray but the difference is Murray could never outplay or win an award over Jokic.

You're on some wild shit here with your arguments.

who cares that Magic still had a better series and somehow they voted for Worthy anyway

Murray put up 33 in the western conference finals as he did in the bubble against the Jazz so he could certainly win FMVP if Worthy did when he wasn't their best player

[ShawkFactory]

Murray the # 2 guy on a championship team. Worthy the #3 guy on championship teams

Well that’s certainly a silly argument. Assuming you’re saying that to mean Murray > Worthy.

[Xiao Yao You]

Well that’s certainly a silly argument. Assuming you’re saying that to mean Murray > Worthy.

I'm saying we're not all tripping because Murray hasn't been hyped as much as Worthy

[ShawkFactory]

I'm saying we're not all tripping because Murray hasn't been hyped as much as Worthy

If he continues to play like he did in the playoffs last year and the Nuggets win a couple more then he certainly will.

[NBAGOAT]

yea i think you can have a superteam even if a more dominant/talented team exists in the league. the cavs were considered by many here a superteam even after durant went to gs. OKC had a superteam on paper in westbrook/george/melo, they were called one in the preseason. If thibs wasnt an idiot and traded butler to hou for gordon and 4 1sts, people are calling houston a superteam.

Also if we're just looking at this year by my definition there isnt a superteam in the league. Clippers are closest but are kawhi and george superstar and all-nba lvl respectively? Most likely not.

[j3lademaster]

Depends on how much I hate them.