Why doesn't Embiid guard Jokic?

[tpols]

I assumed that in this H2H clash these guys both defend each other, but watching the whole game recap the Sixers put Tobias Harris and Batum on Jokic and hid Embiid on Aaron Gordon the entire game.

But on the flip side Jokic was the primary defender on Embiid for the game.

Video proof below.


https://youtu.be/BLKMdd9JqZ8?si=EPEEEcarz6V4Ddl9

Why does Embiid duck that 1v1 matchup defensively?

[Kblaze8855]

Is there any Reason for him to do it other than appearances? The other guys did fine. If they were getting destroyed, it would be another issue. When he’s being contained, why put your best player on him? To wear out his legs and get him in foul trouble? No reason to do it other than pride, or caring about appearances. There’s no logical reason to do it while he’s being contained. If he were lighting them up, it would be another story. Embiid was eating. Makes sense to try every approach.

[Carbine]

Probably because Nurse is a very smart coach and Joel is much more impactful as the help defender

[tpols]

Is there any Reason for him to do it other than appearances? The other guys did fine. If they were getting destroyed, it would be another issue. When he’s being contained, why put your best player on him? To wear out his legs and get him in foul trouble? No reason to do it other than pride, or caring about appearances. There’s no logical reason to do it while he’s being contained. If he were lighting them up, it would be another story. Embiid was eating. Makes sense to try every approach.


Well I was reading the game thread and highwhey and others were saying how Jokic is a fat bitch who can't do anything against real 7 foot centers, and only bullies smaller players.

But then when I rewatched it, I saw that Embiid wasn't even guarding him and they purposely started Harris on him. Found that funny Embiid was ducking that fade.

This is where Aaron Gordon hurts Denver. If they had a 3nD guy like pj tucker or something they wouldn't be able to hide embiid from jokic. It only works because AG doesn't have to be guarded at all from distance allowing embiid to just park in the paint.

[Kblaze8855]

That’s fine. I just don’t know if I can advocate for outright stupidity. I’m all for demanding the superstar matchup out of pride, and wanting to prove a point. I fundamentally support it, and I would like to see more of it. But that doesn’t make it intelligent. Not when the other guy isn’t doing anything to force your hand.

[CurryOverLebron]

Embiid giving Jokic 40 plus once again

Hope y’all didn’t miss this beat down, it was must watch TV.

Embiid: 41pts 7rbs 10ast
Jokic: 25pts 19rbs 3ast

Now he is 6-2 vs Jokic

[tpols]

Just saw something else hilarious.

Jokic was +1 in this game. Embiid was at 0. While both of them were on the court Denver outscored Philly.

The Sixers basically won because Tobias Harris had 24 points on 80% shooting while also doing Embiids job of guarding Jokic. He was player of the game for that.

Meanwhile Murray shit the bed and was also outplayed heavily by Maxey.

Maxey and Harris had by far the highest +/- out of all players on either team @ +13 and +9.

[fourkicks44]

Just saw something else hilarious.

Jokic was +1 in this game. Embiid was at 0. While both of them were on the court Denver outscored Philly.

The Sixers basically won because Tobias Harris had 24 points on 80% shooting while also doing Embiids job of guarding Jokic. He was player of the game for that.

Meanwhile Murray shit the bed and was also outplayed heavily by Maxey.

Maxey and Harris had by far the highest +/- out of all players on either team @ +13 and +9.

Are you trying to draw the conclusion that Jokic's teammates let him down in this game and deserve blame for the loss?

While Embiid wasn't that dominant, his teammates like Harris and Maxey should get credit for carrying the team to the win?

[highwhey]

Are you trying to draw the conclusion that Jokic's teammates let him down in this game and deserve blame for the loss?

While Embiid wasn't that dominant, his teammates like Harris and Maxey should get credit for carrying the team to the win?

rmbr what i said yesterday and starface came in running with a 4 year old agenda about no one blaming jokic's teammates ever? :oldlol:

[tpols]

Are you trying to draw the conclusion that Jokic's teammates let him down in this game and deserve blame for the loss?

While Embiid wasn't that dominant, his teammates like Harris and Maxey should get credit for carrying the team to the win?

Thats... exactly what I'm saying.

Murray had a bad game and MPJ had the worst +/- of any player on either team. Meanwhile Maxey and Harris had the best +/- of any player on either team.

What's most embarrassing though is that Embiid, despite being the far superior defender, doesn't have the balls to guard Jokic, but Jokic despite being a far worse defender did and does have the balls to guard Embiid.

It's an interesting paradox.

[fourkicks44]

rmbr what i said yesterday and starface came in running with a 4 year old agenda about no one blaming jokic's teammates ever? :oldlol:

So predictable :oldlol:

[highwhey]

So predictable :oldlol:

jokic is really great and all, but he's in the small group of title winners that have plot armor. win=he carried ; lose=teammates failed him

one of the reason why i can't really like him as a player, aside from the fake humble act and the league turning a blind eye to his bully brothers sitting courtside yelling at other nba players to go fvck their mothers

[elementally morale]

Just saw something else hilarious.

Jokic was +1 in this game. Embiid was at 0. While both of them were on the court Denver outscored Philly.

The Sixers basically won because Tobias Harris had 24 points on 80% shooting while also doing Embiids job of guarding Jokic. He was player of the game for that.

Meanwhile Murray shit the bed and was also outplayed heavily by Maxey.

Maxey and Harris had by far the highest +/- out of all players on either team @ +13 and +9.

Here is my answer to this from the other related thread.

It wasn't a stalemate and no one embarrassed anyone. The score was even, 111-111 when both Jokic and Embiid returned. Up until that point, Harris kept the 76ers in the game when the two centers had their rest. However, when Embiid came back he went on to score the next 10 points. As for plus minus: it doesn't show there because Jokic actually wasn't in the game for the last minute when the Nuggets made a 5 point mini-run. The game was decided at that point. When Jokic sat down the 76ers were up by 8. No stalemate: Embiid played a better 4th quarter.

Anyway, no embarrassment. 25/19 is a good individual game. The team game went missing for the Nuggets. It wasn't Jokic playing bad it was one game plan having worked better than the other. Up until his last two hail Mary 3 pointers Jokic was 11/18 from the floor. Not terrible. Embiid wes better. (Actually, Jokic took those 18 shots only on paper it was more like 14. He had three occasions when he collected 6 or 7 rebounds and put up multiple shots per possession.)

I'd still have Jokic. The 76ers and Embiid played better yesterday. It happens. Good team, MVP-caliber player, good coach, home game. Good for them. BTW, it was a nice game. I wanted Denver to win but the other team deserved it more. That's it.

[warriorfan]

Probably because Nurse is a very smart coach and Joel is much more impactful as the help defender

This. Do you want embiid to get dragged out of the paint while he’s in a pissing match with jokic or do you want to zone him out and have embiid available for help rim protection.

[BarberSchool]

Probably because Nurse is a very smart coach and Joel is much more impactful as the help defenderTHIS AF

And to avoid foul trouble on the ~best scorer in the league (with relativley poor cardio)

[elementally morale]

Thats... exactly what I'm saying.

Murray had a bad game and MPJ had the worst +/- of any player on either team. Meanwhile Maxey and Harris had the best +/- of any player on either team.

What's most embarrassing though is that Embiid, despite being the far superior defender, doesn't have the balls to guard Jokic, but Jokic despite being a far worse defender did and does have the balls to guard Embiid.

It's an interesting paradox.


I'm not sure you understood the 76ers game plan. It was all about attacking the playmaking part of Jokic' game. They were okay with him scoring 25. The rebounds were the direct result of the game plan. It was zone and team defense. Embiid btw did defend Jokic on 4-5 plays. Two times he got scored on. Didn't matter. Aaron Gordon defended Embiid more of the time than did Jokic. Also: didn't matter. When a 7 footer is hitting everythng from outside you can't do much. If you double him and his teammates make the basket off of his passes you can't do anything. That's exactly what happened.

If you really want to find someone to blame it's Denver's coaching staff. During halftime they should've adjusted. The score was even at the half because they hit everything in the first 2 quarters. It didn't last. It was clearly visible the Nuggets were out of their element. Especially Jokic but their teamplay goes as he goes. And that exactly was the 76ers game plan. It worked. No adjustments. Loss on the road by 5 points. Not the end of the world.

[Duffy Pratt]

First team to get a big man in foul trouble loses. Moreover, Embiid has more value as a rim protector, so it makes sense to put him on Gordon. Lakers had to try the same thing with Davis last year, and it worked a little better.

When Joker did get Embiid on him, he did very well. Embiid wasn’t gonna be any more effective than the other guys, but he could take others out of the game, at least on drives.

Philly had a slightly better game plan, and Embiid was great from outside. They took away Jokers playmaking and the Nuggets didn’t adjust well. In Denver, the same game probably comes out the other way. I’d love to see these teams meet in the finals.

[HighFlyer23]

Embiid giving Jokic 40 plus once again

Hope y’all didn’t miss this beat down, it was must watch TV.

Embiid: 41pts 7rbs 10ast
Jokic: 25pts 19rbs 3ast

Now he is 6-2 vs Jokic

It's equivalent to some kid doing well against his big brother while just messing around


But then when it matters Embiid gets beaten like a $2 hooker and doesn't even make it to match up against jokic

[basketballcat]

Because Embiid the fraud is acutely aware of narratives. He knows that his media hitmen (e.g. Perkins) push the "defense" narrative and he is afraid of getting exposed. Same reason that he isn't going to show up in Denver, to protect that one game that he won.

Or foul trouble. Same reason Duncan & Shaq rarely guarded each other, even after DRob retired.

[tpols]

Because Embiid the fraud is acutely aware of narratives. He knows that his media hitmen (e.g. Perkins) push the "defense" narrative and he is afraid of getting exposed. Same reason that he isn't going to show up in Denver, to protect that one game that he won.

Or foul trouble. Same reason Duncan & Shaq rarely guarded each other, even after DRob retired.

Duncan and Shaq played different positions. Jokic and Embiid are by far the biggest guys on their teams and bona-fide centers. And they stuck a small forward on Yolk while Embiid hid on the weakest shooter and offensive player on the opposing team.

It's just funny to me that a great defender would duck and hide from that H2H matchup.

And you're right he probably won't play at Denver. He'll have an excuse to sit.

[Real Men Wear Green]

What you aren't getting is that the point is to win, not prove something between Embiid and Jokic.

[j3lademaster]

I wouldn't put my best player on the other team's best player either. Foul trouble, fatigue... just don't want it.

[tpols]

Honestly... I miss the old NBA where guys went at it. You know... when Shaq, Ewing, Robinson and Hakeem played H2H, they played H2H. Kareem, Wilt and Russell all played H2H.

They didn't hide like sissies behind a small forward teammate. It's just some weak ass shit tbh.

[fourkicks44]

Honestly... I miss the old NBA where guys went at it. You know... when Shaq, Ewing, Robinson and Hakeem played H2H, they played H2H. Kareem, Wilt and Russell all played H2H.

They didn't hide like sissies behind a small forward teammate. It's just some weak ass shit tbh.

So you admit that Tobias shut Jokic down and his defense on him won the game?

[tpols]

So you admit that Tobias shut Jokic down and his defense on him won the game?

Jokic put up 25/19 on 55% shooting. He wasn't shut down at all. But Jokic was the primary defender on Embiid. The tape doesn't lie. Right off the bat Jokic was put on Embiid as a defender.

But embiid conserved energy by ducking Jokic on the other side. His offense would've suffered if he had to chase Yolk around and defend him depleting his gas tank. So the extra scoring he provided doesn't mean anything. He literally hid like a bitch from the matchup.

[fourkicks44]

Jokic put up 25/19 on 55% shooting. He wasn't shut down at all. But Jokic was the primary defender on Embiid. The tape doesn't lie. Right off the bat Jokic was put on Embiid as a defender.

But embiid conserved energy by ducking Jokic on the other side. His offense would've suffered if he had to chase Yolk around and defend him depleting his gas tank. So the extra scoring he provided doesn't mean anything. He literally hid like a bitch from the matchup.

Yeah but Tobias clearly won the matchup with Jokic, right?

He shut down his playmaking and assists, which are his biggest strength.

Tobias had more assits than Joker himself and was more efficient shooting the ball with a superior + -.

[tontoz]

If anyone wants a specific breakdown of this game check out the hoops tonight broadcast, starting at the 24 minute mark

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4rYXz6DH8SsWi761XIiyah?si=WKJqzxk7TeWtzVdqwPBSBQ


Short version Beverly and Embiid threw off the Jokic/Murray two man game in the 4th quarter.

[Mask the Embiid]

What you aren't getting is that the point is to win, not prove something between Embiid and Jokic.

They watch sports like cavemen…they don’t want to see actual strategy. That’s boring too them. Anytime they watch a sport and a team/player uses strategy it’s boring. The patriots holding teams to 7 points is boring, Floyd mayweather neutralizing offensive fighters is boring, popavich taking away your best player is boring ect ect ect.

[tpols]

Yeah but Tobias clearly won the matchup with Jokic, right?

He shut down his playmaking and assists, which are his biggest strength.

Tobias had more assits than Joker himself and was more efficient shooting the ball with a superior + -.

He didn't shut down his assists as much as his shooters weren't making shots that game. Murray was outplayed heavily by both Harris and Maxey.

And yes I agree Tobias was the best player on the floor in that game.

[ShawkFactory]

He didn't shut down his assists as much as his shooters weren't making shots that game. Murray was outplayed heavily by both Harris and Maxey.

And yes I agree Tobias was the best player on the floor in that game.

You don't have to commit to the argument this hard. Could have stopped well before this.

[fourkicks44]

You don't have to commit to the argument this hard. Could have stopped well before this.

I disagree with 99% of what tpols has said in this thread, it is obvious bullshit.

But in all seriousness, his comment does have some merit.

From an efficiency standpoint Tobias was way above everyone else and he played his defensive role exactly how Nurse planned it.

He does deserve credit where due.

[ShawkFactory]

I disagree with 99% of what tpols has said in this thread, it is obvious bullshit.

But in all seriousness, his comment does have some merit.

From an efficiency standpoint Tobias was way above everyone else and he played his defensive role exactly how Nurse planned it.

He does deserve credit where due.

I mean sure. He had a great game and was certainly the deciding factor as a secondary or even tertiary guy on the team.

He was clearly not the best player on the floor.

It’s the classic mistake of someone assuming that the x-factor is the MVP.