KD is confused on why he isn’t in the GOAT conversation

[warriorfan]

https://t.co/pHyvTDJMqA


“Because I went to the Warriors?” Durant said in an exclusive interview with The Republic last week. “Why shouldn’t I be in that? That’s the question you should ask. Why not? What haven’t I done?”

[SouBeachTalents]

Just from his era, he’ll prob barely be top 5 once Giannis & Jokic’s careers are done :lol

[Axe]

Don't ever forget how he's helped your team instantly win two rings in a row.

[BarberSchool]

I’ll say it again:

When KD went to the warriors, he tarnished/ruined many legacies:

Tarnished:

Steph
Klay
Kerr

Ruined:
His own
Westbrick

[SATAN]

I want to like KD. He's a good player but the stupid comments are too much. It's almost like a poster here just saying stuff for a reaction...but instead it's KD actually being serious and not realizing how ridiculous he sounds.

[bdonovan]

I watched almost every game of the Warriors when KD was on the team (and before, after). He was absolutely a net negative on the team- and the record shows we had a better record when he was injured both in the regular season and postseason. His primary deficiencies were TEAM offense and TEAM defense- I noted this game by game for years on these boards. Only casuals who never watched these games would disagree. There is a reason, and it's not "moar help", he will NEVER win anything on any other team he goes to.

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Phoenix]

The fact that he seems to be creeping into alot of top 15 lists despite having never won without a championship level team before and after he was there, actually speaks to how highly he's viewed. You could have slotted alot of guys worse than him on that 17 and 18 Warriors squad and they still win. I mean, technically they did.... we all can agree 2022 Wiggins is light years below KD yeah? And to top off Steph/Klay/Dray were worse in 2022 than from 2015-2019.

[StrongLurk]

He can be in the conversation for GOAT scorer (although MJ still has that on lock in my opinion).

I actually consider KD better than most people do, at least when it comes to his talent, skill, and on court production. Just doing an in-depth side-by-side comparison between him and Larry Bird during their prime, they are essentially equal players. BUT saying this instantly makes a lot of people disagree because Larry is simply viewed with more respect as a leader and competitor (this happens sometimes when comparing Kobe and Lebron too).

So KD basically has the skill/talent of a top 10-15 player of all time, but his "legacy" is far below that.

The dude has 4 scoring titles, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP, and 10 all-nba teams. He's a monster. Yes his move to the Warriors was weak as hell, but he was literally on his way to 3-peating with 3FMVPs before the achilles injury. If he didn't get unlucky, then after 3 FMVPs in a row...people would start viewing him as "the best player on the best team of all time", instead of "not the bus driver".

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's one of the most talented players of all time and has a great career. But he should be aware enough to realize that no one with one mvp award is going to be in the greatest ever conversation.

[Phoenix]

He can be in the conversation for GOAT scorer (although MJ still has that on lock in my opinion).

I actually consider KD better than most people do, at least when it comes to his talent, skill, and on court production. Just doing an in-depth side-by-side comparison between him and Larry Bird during their prime, they are essentially equal players. BUT saying this instantly makes a lot of people disagree because Larry is simply viewed with more respect as a leader and competitor (this happens sometimes when comparing Kobe and Lebron too).

So KD basically has the skill/talent of a top 10-15 player of all time, but his "legacy" is far below that.

The dude has 4 scoring titles, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP, and 10 all-nba teams. He's a monster. Yes his move to the Warriors was weak as hell, but he was literally on his way to 3-peating with 3FMVPs before the achilles injury. If he didn't get unlucky, then after 3 FMVPs in a row...people would start viewing him as "the best player on the best team of all time", instead of "not the bus driver".

I think this is pretty much it. Talent, ability and skills were never in question but I think things like leadership both on-court and in the locker-room have a 'rising tide lifts all boats' effect, and that's the most glaring hole in KD to me. Kawhi has the same thing, it's a 'I just wanna hoop' mindset without the responsibility to lead and I think those are greater points of separation from the guys we tend to put in the GOAT argument.

Frankly, Jokic's title last year IMO carries more legacy weight than both of KDs. Add in 2 MVPs, finals MVP, 5 All-NBA, and I don't think there is much separation there other than Jokic needs more years to accumulate more 'legacy' bullet points like all-NBA teams.

[LeGoat4Life]

If he stayed with the warriors and won 6-7 rings he would have been in the conversation

But he got his feelings hurt and left

[hold this L]

He can be in the conversation for GOAT scorer (although MJ still has that on lock in my opinion).

I actually consider KD better than most people do, at least when it comes to his talent, skill, and on court production. Just doing an in-depth side-by-side comparison between him and Larry Bird during their prime, they are essentially equal players. BUT saying this instantly makes a lot of people disagree because Larry is simply viewed with more respect as a leader and competitor (this happens sometimes when comparing Kobe and Lebron too).

So KD basically has the skill/talent of a top 10-15 player of all time, but his "legacy" is far below that.

The dude has 4 scoring titles, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP, and 10 all-nba teams. He's a monster. Yes his move to the Warriors was weak as hell, but he was literally on his way to 3-peating with 3FMVPs before the achilles injury. If he didn't get unlucky, then after 3 FMVPs in a row...people would start viewing him as "the best player on the best team of all time", instead of "not the bus driver".

But he's not better than Bird. Reality is that a job regardless of what it is has other aspects to it outside of just doing it. Same as if you work an office job and can do the job exceptionally well and to the level of someone else, but they're viewed better because they can lead teams better, they can communicate much better and work better with different types of personalities. KD is the type of guy that can do his job exceptionally well and offer absolutely nothing else to the table. That's why he's "only" a top 20 all time great.

[SaltyMeatballs]

When you have only 1 MVP and both of your championships came from being on a team that would still be title favorites without you then you don't belong in the GOAT conversation. KD can be in the conversation for GOAT scorer and he's a top 15 player ever but that's it.

[StrongLurk]

But he's not better than Bird. Reality is that a job regardless of what it is has other aspects to it outside of just doing it. Same as if you work an office job and can do the job exceptionally well and to the level of someone else, but they're viewed better because they can lead teams better, they can communicate much better and work better with different types of personalities. KD is the type of guy that can do his job exceptionally well and offer absolutely nothing else to the table. That's why he's "only" a top 20 all time great.

What makes Bird a clearly better player than KD from a basketball perspective? Are intangibles that only thing? Sure, Bird is a better passer and rebounder, but KD has a large advantage with scoring.

[ErhnamDjinn]

I’ll say it again:

When KD went to the warriors, he tarnished/ruined many legacies:

Tarnished:

Steph
Klay
Kerr

Ruined:
His own
Westbrick

Nah they earned it back when they won without him.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I put KD as 2 or 3 all time.

Led the greatest team ever. It's too big of an accomplishment to overlook. Plus has arguably the most portable game ever. Can fit with anybody.

Same reason Bird is top 3.

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Bird


If you're not a versatile forward, you cant be GOAT. These guys set the GOAT standard.

[tpols]

The fact that he seems to be creeping into alot of top 15 lists despite having never won without a championship level team before and after he was there, actually speaks to how highly he's viewed. You could have slotted alot of guys worse than him on that 17 and 18 Warriors squad and they still win. I mean, technically they did.... we all can agree 2022 Wiggins is light years below KD yeah? And to top off Steph/Klay/Dray were worse in 2022 than from 2015-2019.

That's a bogus argument because Kobe played with Shaq and vice versa, Magic played with Kareem and vice versa, Lebron formed super teams and beat KD when his main guy was Westbrook (who Lebron would have never won with), etc.

Durant won on stacked teams just like most all time greats did...

It would be one thing if Durant put up like 19 ppg... guy was averaging 35ppg to multiple FMVPs. He was completely dominant in the Warriors wins.

[bison]

It's unfortunate that we never got to see a superb talent like KD lead his own team to a championship. He instead chose to ride the coattails of Steph, Kyrie and now Booker (all alpha males). What a waste.

[StrongLurk]

That's a bogus argument because Kobe played with Shaq and vice versa, Magic played with Kareem and vice versa, Lebron formed super teams and beat KD when his main guy was Westbrook (who Lebron would have never won with), etc.

Durant won on stacked teams just like most all time greats did...

It would be one thing if Durant put up like 19 ppg... guy was averaging 35ppg to multiple FMVPs. He was completely dominant in the Warriors wins.

I've said the same thing...like yeah, those Warriors were the MOST stacked team ever formed in the 3-point era AND they perfectly fit KD's strengths. But even with that, how many people would perform like Durant did in those two finals? Not many obviously. It's not just the FMVP award, his numbers were 100% bonkers. Is peak Larry Bird putting up the same numbers Durant did if he was on those Warriors team? I really don't think so.

[Phoenix]

That's a bogus argument because Kobe played with Shaq and vice versa, Magic played with Kareem and vice versa, Lebron formed super teams and beat KD when his main guy was Westbrook (who Lebron would have never won with), etc.

Durant won on stacked teams just like most all time greats did...

It would be one thing if Durant put up like 19 ppg... guy was averaging 35ppg to multiple FMVPs. He was completely dominant in the Warriors wins.

Nothing bogus about it. Nobody is arguing his greatness and he absolutely balled out in the finals. The conversation is whether he warrants inclusion in the GOAT argument and his titles in 2017 and 2018 wouldn't make him a GOAT candidate even if the team wasn't the Warriors. If that's the case, then someone like Hakeem deserves mention in that conversation and yet nobody makes that claim.

[Axe]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/giphy-downsized-large.gif
Seething over the fact that he won a finals mvp first over your... oops, never mind. :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

I've said the same thing...like yeah, those Warriors were the MOST stacked team ever formed in the 3-point era AND they perfectly fit KD's strengths. But even with that, how many people would perform like Durant did in those two finals? Not many obviously. It's not just the FMVP award, his numbers were 100% bonkers. Is peak Larry Bird putting up the same numbers Durant did if he was on those Warriors team? I really don't think so.

Here's a hypothetical: If you put, say, Paul George on that 2017 Warriors team do you think they win? Because there seems to be this idea that Durant was the only player capable of putting that team over the top when we know that's not the case, even if you only look at 2022 and ignore 2015. Durant basically made the Warriors unfair competitively, not that he presented the only chance for them to win. I think we know this...yeah? Because I don't know with this board...

[tontoz]

Seething over the fact that he won a finals mvp first over your... oops, never mind. :oldlol:

Seething, the fallback word for low IQ posters.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/(edited)_Screenshot_20220701-162940.png

[Axe]

^^Boiling. Four-minute differential. :roll:

[highwhey]

Seething, the fallback word for low IQ posters.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/(edited)_Screenshot_20220701-162940.png

KD is a better player than Curry. Sorry to break it to you.

[tontoz]

^^Boiling. Four-minute differential. :roll:


Oh the irony :roll:

[tontoz]

KD is a better player than Curry. Sorry to break it to you.


According to who, butthurt Curry victims? The only reason Durant has a ring is because he joined Curry's 73 win team.

How many playoff series has Durant won since he left Curry? :lol

[Axe]

KD is a better player than Curry. Sorry to break it to you.
Hey, don't joke uncle like that. He must be having a tough day already seeing the warriors in shambles nowadays. :ohwell:

[highwhey]

According to who, butthurt Curry victims? The only reason Durant has a ring is because he joined Curry's 73 win team.

How many playoff series has Durant won since he left Curry? :lol

stephanie wouldn't have a ring without dray or klay. that's facts, or you know...if luck wasn't on their side with timely injuries.

[ImKobe]

GOAT convo with 2 rings? lol

[tontoz]

stephanie wouldn't have a ring without dray or klay. that's facts, or you know...if luck wasn't on their side with timely injuries.



Those two owe their careers to Curry. How many All-NBA teams have those two made? Maybe 3 combined, no first teams. Those two are replaceable. Curry is the reason they were a dynasty.

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

[highwhey]

Those two owe their careers to Curry. How many All-NBA teams have those two made? Maybe 3 combined, no first teams. Those two are replaceable. Curry is the reason they were a dynasty.

is that why he's so very successful without them?

[tontoz]

is that why he's so very successful without them?


They have a winning record without both guys. The year they won the title they had one of the best records in the league before Klay even played his first game.

In fact they were 29-9 before Klay played his first game.

[Phoenix]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

I was going to make that point earlier, but couldn't be bothered because this is all old hat at this point( mind you, most conversation on this board is). Steph's play had a 'rising tide' effect on the team that's best exemplified( and backed by numbers) when he was off the play.

[PeroAntic]

If he stayed with the warriors and won 6-7 rings he would have been in the conversation

But he got his feelings hurt and left

Person who wrote the least got it most right.

[warriorfan]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

This will always be the most potent KD rat poison

[Kblaze8855]

From a Basketball playing perspective I can see why he would wonder. People just don’t like evaluating it that way because it’s so subjective you never get real answers. And debate culture demand firm rankings.

On the same floor he’s looked like the equal of plenty of guys in that conversation.

[warriorfan]

From a Basketball playing perspective I can see why he would wonder. People just don’t like evaluating it that way because it’s so subjective you never get real answers. And debate culture demand firm rankings.

On the same floor he’s looked like the equal of plenty of guys in that conversation.

not really

he has an aesthetically pleasing game but he doesn’t have positive intangibles that show up in his overall on court impact

if you are trying to say KD is as good as basketball as the top 5 players of all time…then we are just going to have to disagree

[Kblaze8855]

That’s how all the arguments against him go really. It’s hard to really talk about basketball specifics because there’s nothing in his game to really hate on. You can point to specific bad performance here and there like with everybody but if we’re throwing basketball skills, athletic traits, and so on in a bucket and weighing everybody’s bucket? His bucket is pretty close to being as heavy as anybody who ever played. His criticism is in abstract things you can’t put your finger on like “The vibes are off….” and shit like that.

Hes not gonna just get mopped by whoever anyones top 5 is. Not at playing basketball.

[warriorfan]

That’s how all the arguments against him go really. It’s hard to really talk about basketball specifics because there’s nothing in his game to really hate on. You can point to specific bad performance here and there like with everybody but if we’re throwing basketball skills, athletic traits, and so on in a bucket and weighing everybody’s bucket? His bucket is pretty close to being as heavy as anybody who ever played. His criticism is in abstract things you can’t put your finger on like “The vibes are off….” and shit like that.

Hes not gonna just get mopped by whoever anyones top 5 is. Not at playing basketball.

Inconsistent defense.

Not great playmaking.

Shitty sulking attitude that gets triggered very easily

No real leadership qualities.



He’s an amazing watch and alway has becsuse he’s 7 foot and can score from anywhere on the floor. That alone doesn’t get you in the convos with the top dogs. Not saying he’s bad. He’s just a tier or two below those guys.


Hes not gonna just get mopped by whoever anyones top 5 is. Not at playing basketball.

No one said he’s gonna get mopped.

Kevin Durant is just not as good at basketball as the top 5ish players of all time

[Phoenix]

That’s how all the arguments against him go really. It’s hard to really talk about basketball specifics because there’s nothing in his game to really hate on. You can point to specific bad performance here and there like with everybody but if we’re throwing basketball skills, athletic traits, and so on in a bucket and weighing everybody’s bucket? His bucket is pretty close to being as heavy as anybody who ever played. His criticism is in abstract things you can’t put your finger on like “The vibes are off….” and shit like that.

Hes not gonna just get mopped by whoever anyones top 5 is. Not at playing basketball.

You could probably say the same thing about someone like 2003 Tmac. Like just putting the 'GOATs' on the floor and throw Tmac in there? He's not going to look measurably worse than anyone else. And he couldn't even get into the top 75( I think he should have made the cut in 2022). Most of these guys abilities in a vacuum are closer than whatever circumstances led to the way their careers panned out. Which makes the whole 'GOAT' thing an increasingly futile argument.

[Kblaze8855]

Inconsistent defense.

Not great playmaking.

Shitty sulking attitude that gets triggered very easily

No real leadership qualities.



He’s an amazing watch and alway has becsuse he’s 7 foot and can score from anywhere on the floor. That alone doesn’t get you in the convos with the top dogs. Not saying he’s bad. He’s just a tier or two below those guys.



No one said he’s gonna get mopped.

Kevin Durant is just not as good at basketball as the top 5ish players of all time


two of those four are exactly the kinds of “The vibes are off “criticisms I’m talking about and the other two are just the kind of thing that keeps anybody from being perfect. You could list inconsistent shooting next to several of the people high on the list. Inconsistent defense as well. quite a few aren’t great passers or at least not spectacular. Those aren’t reasons you aren’t in the conversation. Those are things people use against other people in the conversation to put their favorite player higher.

I’ve seen a few people try to do a deep dive, taking apart his game and doing something like that you can make anybody look bad which is why it’s only effective when you aren’t doing it for everybody at the same time.

You can nitpick anybody to death. But once again, if you throw all these people on the same floor, Kevin Durant is probably going to look as good as anybody who ever played. Sometimes he will get out played. Sometimes he will outplay others. He won’t look like he doesn’t belong. He’s in that company. I think most of the people you would put in that company would say he is in it with them speaking candidly.

not in career accolades but as a player? Yeah probably.

you can probably say the same for prime Dwyane Wade as well.

[warriorfan]

two of those four are exactly the kinds of “The vibes are off “criticisms I’m talking about and the other two are just the kind of thing that keeps anybody from being perfect. You could list inconsistent shooting next to several of the people high on the list. Inconsistent defense as well. quite a few aren’t great passers or at least not spectacular. Those aren’t reasons you aren’t in the conversation. Those are things people use against other people in the conversation to put their favorite player higher.

I’ve seen a few people try to do a deep dive, taking apart his game and doing something like that you can make anybody look bad which is why it’s only effective when you aren’t doing it for everybody at the same time.

You can nitpick anybody to death. But once again, if you throw all these people on the same floor, Kevin Durant is probably going to look as good as anybody who ever played. Sometimes he will get out played. Sometimes he will outplay others. He won’t look like he doesn’t belong. He’s in that company. I think most of the people you would put in that company would say he is in it with them speaking candidly.

not in career accolades but as a player? Yeah probably.

you can probably say the same for prime Dwyane Wade as well.

according to this definition, the top 20 player list should be dismantled completely and all of them grouped into one “top 20 tier” because they all theoretically could hang pretty well with each other if they played .

[Kblaze8855]

I just don’t see much value in playing the game of narratives. And that’s pretty much what we have to do to separate players once you get high enough as basketball guys. Basketball wise there really isn’t some big difference. The big difference is largely based on how circumstances have you viewed.

There are players who achieve high-ranking, because of how good they are. There are players who get it from how great their careers are. A select few were both really good and really great. But not everybody who is elite on one list should be as high on the other. That just comes down to how you want to frame the question and that is how you rig the answer to what you desire. But there really isn’t an answer. Only within the confines of the argument the person the question wants to have.


The goat debate isn’t seriously about basketball. It’s an argument over how to frame the question.

[warriorfan]

I just don’t see much value in playing the game of narratives. And that’s pretty much what we have to do to separate players once you get high enough as basketball guys. Basketball wise there really isn’t some big difference. The big difference is largely based on how circumstances have you viewed.

There are players who achieve high-ranking, because of how good they are. There are players who get it from how great their careers are. A select few were both really good and really great. But not everybody who is elite on one list should be as high on the other. That just comes down to how you want to frame the question and that is how you rig the answer to what you desire. But there really isn’t an answer. Only within the confines of the argument the person the question wants to have.


The goat debate isn’t seriously about basketball. It’s an argument over how to frame the question.

well you framed it pretty interestingly back there even though I get what you are saying

but under how 99% of people frame it, KD isn’t anywhere near the GOAT conversation

[highwhey]

it's LeBron and MJ for the GOAT discussion. i will say this, KD is a lot closer to that discussion than Stephanie will ever be :oldlol:

[Axe]

it's LeBron and MJ for the GOAT discussion. i will say this, KD is a lot closer to that discussion than Stephanie will ever be :oldlol:
Not even sure if chef gerbil is as good as any of those three in a 1v1 exhibition. I mean he's small and lacks athleticism, despite being 'skilled' at what he usually does.

[tontoz]

Since KD left Curry has a ring, a FMVP and was a MVP finalist.

What has KD done since he left? Win in the first round :bowdown:

[hold this L]

stephanie wouldn't have a ring without dray or klay. that's facts, or you know...if luck wasn't on their side with timely injuries.
Such a low IQ post. Yes, Steph Curry would not win a ring if he didn't have good players around him. Any other brilliant insights? Steph seems to be the only one idiots mention having a good team pointed out as a negative out of Bill.

EDIT: I forgot he's playing for the Suns. Ok, I understand why you type like a retard now.

[Kblaze8855]

well you framed it pretty interestingly back there even though I get what you are saying

but under how 99% of people frame it, KD isn’t anywhere near the GOAT conversation


I don’t much care about that. And I don’t think you do either unless it’s that big majority saying you are right. Once it’s the public disagreeing with you then we talk about casual fans and who is underrated because most people don’t know ball. And that isn’t a personal thing with you that’s pretty much everybody. Everybody wants to talk public opinion until it’s time to point out how Stupid the public is because they don’t see it the way we do.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/bAwjgOVcmvwAAAAC/ryan-gosling-laughing.gif

[warriorfan]

I don’t much care about that. And I don’t think you do either unless it’s that big majority saying you are right. Once it’s the public disagreeing with you then we talk about casual fans and who is underrated because most people don’t know ball. And that isn’t a personal thing with you that’s pretty much everybody. Everybody wants to talk public opinion until it’s time to point out how Stupid the public is because they don’t see it the way we do.

I don’t really either. But i’m saying there’s some sort of compromise.

I get what you are saying i’m just saying it takes a mighty big stretch to group KD with the very top of all time, and if you do….you are gonna have to usher a good 20-40ish other dudes into that group.


There’s no criteria that ushers in only KD to the discussion and not a whole slew of others with him besides “his game looks really nice though”

[Axe]

Since KD left Curry has a ring, a FMVP and was a MVP finalist.
With or without the core, uncle?

[tontoz]

With or without the core, uncle?


He was an MVP finalist in the season Klay didn't play.



Whose teammates are more accomplished, Klay/Dray or Kyrie/Harden/ Booker?

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t really either. But i’m saying there’s some sort of compromise.

I get what you are saying i’m just saying it takes a mighty big stretch to group KD with the very top of all time, and if you do….you are gonna have to usher a good 20-40ish other dudes into that group.


There’s no criteria that ushers in only KD to the discussion and not a whole slew of others with him besides “his game looks really nice though”


It isn’t his game “looking nice”. That’s just a dismissive way to downplay the fact he’s ****ing incredible. A lot of peoples games look really nice without them being as nice as Kevin Durant is. All of this is just a way to talk around acknowledging that he is a ****ing ridiculous basketball player.

He also happens to be on a short list of people who are both league and finals MVPs. There might be 20. If you want to make the criteria mvps who won multiple finals mvps guys start falling off it quick and a good number who were on the first one simply weren’t KD level anyway. Unseld has both but he isn’t KD. There are a few who chip away at that initial 20ish that way.

Not that it’s my criteria but people do shit like that.

Im just talking to you about playing ball. I can see where he as a basketball player would consider himself up there. Because he probably is. Of the guys not traditionally in those talks…KD, Steph, and Wade probably have the best case to get into the basketball only discussion. At least if we disregard the old guys who force a whole different kinda argument.

[warriorfan]

It isn’t his game “looking nice”. That’s just a dismissive way to downplay the fact he’s ****ing incredible. A lot of peoples games look really nice without them being as nice as Kevin Durant is. All of this is just a way to talk around acknowledging that he is a ****ing ridiculous basketball player.

He also happens to be on a short list of people who are both league and finals MVPs. There might be 20. If you want to make the criteria mvps who won multiple finals mvps guys start falling off it quick and a good number who were on the first one simply weren’t KD level anyway. Unseld has both but he isn’t KD. There are a few who chip away at that initial 20ish that way.

Not that it’s my criteria but people do shit like that.

Im just talking to you about playing ball. I can see where he as a basketball player would consider himself up there. Because he probably is. Of the guys not traditionally in those talks…KD, Steph, and Wade probably have the best case to get into the basketball only discussion. At least if we disregard the old guys who force a whole different kinda argument.

You just overrate KD. It’s pretty simple.

There’s no metric besides eye test that ranks him with the best

So his game looks nice, but he doesn’t have the results to back it up compared to the GOATs

[Im Still Ballin]

Waiting for iamgine to bring up sample size.

[Charlie Sheen]

Answer is not that complicated for me

KD is not even in the discussion for his own era because his career overlaps with a player that does everything except shooting... and mayyyyyyybe scoring... markedly better than him.

This is not a Magic and Bird situation.

[FilmyCogTurner]

He has never led a team to a championship. Simple.

[Kblaze8855]

You just overrate KD. It’s pretty simple.

There’s no metric besides eye test that ranks him with the best

So his game looks nice, but he doesn’t have the results to back it up compared to the GOATs

Vince Carter‘s game looked nice. Ray Allen‘s game looked nice. Kevin Durant goes out there and consistently plays basketball pretty close to as well as anybody has ever played it. He isn’t “looking nice” his way to 29 a game on 53/47/88. And I’d attribute it to the era except 10 years ago he did 32 a game on 50/39/88. He’s seven feet tall with an all time elite touch, guard handles, a 7’5” wingspan that makes him a nightmare to shoot over and he can move the ball and understands the game.

He isn’t a “Just looks good”. Hes one of the nicest to e we dribble a ball whatever else he might be that annoys you.

he’s one of the players so good all you can do is list reasons why he isn’t perfect and most of those reasons are abstract things being leaned on by people who have some personal agenda they need to push.

whatever issues you might have with his personality he’s a basketball junkie. He pretty much smokes weed and plays basketball. You don’t get to his level of polish without it. He’s been able to play everybody in the league in his career as an equal. Perhaps not moment to moment, but that’s everybody. At any given moment Bernard King might bust Larry Birds ass, but he still who he is. People can play with Kevin Durant, but I’m not certain anybody to ever play makes him look like it’s an invalid comparison on the same floor.

The arguments against him don’t strike me as substantial basketball arguments. A lot of touchy-feely things, but not much substance.

[SATAN]

Answer is not that complicated for me

KD is not even in the discussion for his own era because his career overlaps with a player that does everything except shooting... and mayyyyyyybe scoring... markedly better than him.

This is not a Magic and Bird situation.

More similar to Kobe and MJ, except twice as pathetic imo. KD is not a real leader and doesn't have the same kind of impact. He has tried to copy and outdo LeBron in so many ways yet became somewhat a laughing stock in the process. He's not running an offense or even thinking on that level. It's not even close. I don't care how nice his jump shot is, he just isn't on that top 5 level. At all.

[warriorfan]

Vince Carter‘s game looked nice. Ray Allen‘s game looked nice. Kevin Durant goes out there and consistently plays basketball pretty close to as well as anybody has ever played it. He isn’t “looking nice” his way to 29 a game on 53/47/88. And I’d attribute it to the era except 10 years ago he did 32 a game on 50/39/88. He’s seven feet tall with an all time elite touch, guard handles, a 7’5” wingspan that makes him a nightmare to shoot over and he can move the ball and understands the game.

He isn’t a “Just looks good”. Hes one of the nicest to e we dribble a ball whatever else he might be that annoys you.

he’s one of the players so good all you can do is list reasons why he isn’t perfect and most of those reasons are abstract things being leaned on by people who have some personal agenda they need to push.

whatever issues you might have with his personality he’s a basketball junkie. He pretty much smokes weed and plays basketball. You don’t get to his level of polish without it. He’s been able to play everybody in the league in his career as an equal. Perhaps not moment to moment, but that’s everybody. At any given moment Bernard King might bust Larry Birds ass, but he still who he is. People can play with Kevin Durant, but I’m not certain anybody to ever play makes him look like it’s an invalid comparison on the same floor.

The arguments against him don’t strike me as substantial basketball arguments. A lot of touchy-feely things, but not much substance.

Good stats and nice looking game but he’s never really elevated his teammates as much as you would think based off of it. I don’t know what’s so hard to grasp about that.

This is the longest convo ever that keeps circling back to “KD is a 15-20 player of all time rather than a 1-5”

[PeroAntic]

KD was the best player of the greatest team ever that dismantled a top 3 goat's superteam. Twice, with some insane clutch shots from him. I dont consider those two rings a joke. If he stayed he could have double that with fmvps and that puts him in the goat contention based on 99 percent of the public. Funny that is he wasnt such a sensitive weirdo so obsessed with his legacy and stayed with the Warriors, he probably would have had a much better argument now. Hes top 15 easily right now all things considered, maybe even top 10.

[SATAN]

KD was the best player of the greatest team ever that dismantled a top 3 goat's superteam. Twice, with some insane clutch shots from him. I dont consider those two rings a joke. If he stayed he could have double that with fmvps and that puts him in the goat contention based on 99 percent of the public. Funny that is he wasnt such a sensitive weirdo so obsessed with his legacy and stayed with the Warriors, he probably would have had a much better argument now. Hes top 15 easily right now all things considered, maybe even top 10.

Go on...List them...

[Xiao Yao You]

KD was the best player of the greatest team ever that dismantled a top 3 goat's superteam. Twice, with some insane clutch shots from him. I dont consider those two rings a joke. If he stayed he could have double that with fmvps and that puts him in the goat contention based on 99 percent of the public. Funny that is he wasnt such a sensitive weirdo so obsessed with his legacy and stayed with the Warriors, he probably would have had a much better argument now. Hes top 15 easily right now all things considered, maybe even top 10.

he's obviously obsessed with his legacy. He thought he needed to leave the Warriors and carry a team to a title because of the narrative of him joining the best team

[warriorfan]

KD was the best player of the greatest team ever that dismantled a top 3 goat's superteam. Twice, with some insane clutch shots from him. I dont consider those two rings a joke. If he stayed he could have double that with fmvps and that puts him in the goat contention based on 99 percent of the public. Funny that is he wasnt such a sensitive weirdo so obsessed with his legacy and stayed with the Warriors, he probably would have had a much better argument now. Hes top 15 easily right now all things considered, maybe even top 10.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

[Kblaze8855]

It’s just Internet argument talking points. Nothing really about basketball. He’s been on four teams. The first went to the finals. He joined an obviously already championship level team and was equal to or outplaying everybody while on it winning two titles. How many games did he play with the stars in New Jersey? Was it even 30? I’m not sure it was. How many has he played with the people on the suns?

I’m not talking about some narrative, driven Internet talk. I’m talking basketball. And all you hear Negative about him is fluff. It’s pixie dust bullshit because there aren’t substantial basketball arguments. Or perhaps they are but nobody chooses to make them.

I don’t deny the existence of the intangible things like having “it”. But when that is the consistent weapon used against you, because talking basketball doesn’t get the desired results?

we out here talking about fire in the belly and magical shit ducking actual basketball analysis. The mother****er is about as nice as it gets. The very very few people who are as nice as he he is on offense? The ones who kick his ass on defense have the best basketball argument. There are a few. But not many. And even some of the people recognized as really good defenders like Kobe…

We have seen these people play on the same floor. They virtually always look like the same level of player. One or the other might have a better game, but these aren’t different tiers of players. They are on way different levels in narrative and abstract career greatness…but on the same floor it looks like two equals going at each other.

If you don’t understand how somebody can go out onto a court and play just as well as another guy 50 times and not come away feeling like he has to bow because of the career the other person had You just don’t understand athletics.

so, in the end like it always its an argument over the nature of the question. And when you start there, the answers obviously won’t be consistent.

[warriorfan]

It’s just Internet argument talking points. Nothing really about basketball. He’s been on four teams. The first went to the finals. He joined an obviously already championship level team and was equal to or outplaying everybody while on it winning two titles. How many games did he play with the stars in New Jersey? Was it even 30? I’m not sure it was. How many has he played with the people on the suns?

I’m not talking about some narrative, driven Internet talk. I’m talking basketball. And all you hear Negative about him is fluff. It’s pixie dust bullshit because there aren’t substantial basketball arguments. Or perhaps they are but nobody chooses to make them.

I don’t deny the existence of the intangible things like having “it”. But when that is the consistent weapon used against you, because talking basketball doesn’t get the desired results?

we out here talking about fire in the belly and magical shit ducking actual basketball analysis. The mother****er is about as nice as it gets. The very very few people who are as nice as he he is on offense? The ones who kick his ass on defense have the best basketball argument. There are a few. But not many. And even some of the people recognized as really good defenders like Kobe…

We have seen these people play on the same floor. They virtually always look like the same level of player. One or the other might have a better game, but these aren’t different tiers of players. They are on way different levels in narrative and abstract career greatness…but on the same floor it looks like two equals going at each other.

If you don’t understand how somebody can go out onto a court and play just as well as another guy 50 times and not come away feeling like he has to bow because of the career the other person had You just don’t understand athletics.

so, in the end like it always its an argument over the nature of the question. And when you start there, the answers obviously won’t be consistent.

From everything I’ve seen durant may be the most talented player of all time, I would hear that argument. boiling it down over-simplistically, he doenst have the it factor. he’s not comparable with the 1-5

it’s hard to play the whole mental gymnastics what if scenarios with him too. OKC was an amazing situation, he left for a better one, ****ed that one up, went on to make more amazing situations where nothing formed… This isn’t some dude who had a bad beat and played with shit teams/franchises his whole career

he made his bed, now he has to lie in it. and it’s down the hall to the left from the big boys

[tontoz]

But when that is the consistent weapon used against you, because talking basketball doesn’t get the desired results?


I see this argument from time to time regarding Isiah Thomas. His actual production was lacking so a certain poster always has to resort to leadership, intangibles whatever to to distract from his lack of production relative to other top pgs.

[Lebron23]

Just what i said about Kobe you cannot be in the goat conversation with only 1 mvp and 2 finals mvp

[Kblaze8855]

From everything I’ve seen durant may be the most talented player of all time, I would hear that argument. boiling it down over-simplistically, he doenst have the it factor. he’s not comparable with the 1-5

it’s hard to play the whole mental gymnastics what if scenarios with him too. OKC was an amazing situation, he left for a better one, ****ed that one up, went on to make more amazing situations where nothing formed… This isn’t some dude who had a bad beat and played with shit teams/franchises his whole career

he made his bed, now he has to lie in it. and it’s down the hall to the left from the big boys


unless him and the big boys have to play a game of basketball at which point, he’s going to look as good as most of them are. I don’t know what else there is to say about it.

[Kblaze8855]

I see this argument from time to time regarding Isiah Thomas. His actual production was lacking so a certain poster always has to resort to leadership, intangibles whatever to to distract from his lack of production relative to other top pgs.

actually, Isiah is another pure basketball argument guy. Just happens to have the intangibles argument as well. What he lacks is overwhelming counting stats but if that’s what we are using we would have to rebuild the whole thing from the ground up. The traditional basketball+accomplishments+intangibles argument works fine for Isiah and he’s always been ranked accordingly.

A few people like you who have very specific statistical standards of what greatness is will always have a different take. You wanna heavily lean on any of the big 4(Basketball, accomplishments, intangibles, and stats) you have different ranking depending on which you favor. I’d say Isiah is highly ranked in 3. KD also 3 but a different 3. Kobe is 3 having lost the stats standing fast with what the game has become. Do Bird and Magic have elite stats the way we look at it now? Does Jordan after the first 3 peat?

Really I don’t know who is gonna keep elite status numbers wise long term.

Might end up like baseball where 30 home runs used to make you god but now you might be ignored. We will have to see.

[warriorfan]

unless him and the big boys have to play a game of basketball at which point, he’s going to look as good as most of them are. I don’t know what else there is to say about it.

Until they clown him with some trash talk about his hardest path rings and he storms off the court in tears

[Im Still Ballin]

Mo Williams should be in the GOAT convo because he scored 52 points once. At his best, he wouldn't look out of place among the greats. Same goes for Tony Delk and Corey Brewer.

[Im Still Ballin]

Flame emoji.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s5fR7o9SSs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkSC-Ximwbk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC1srGqOrK4

[PeroAntic]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

Is this regular season?

[SouBeachTalents]

Is this regular season?
No, they played 40 playoff games with just KD and no Steph.

[3ba11]

if we AREN'T going by mvp's, stats or rings as the best player, then Durant can be in the goat conversation.

if we ARE going by those things, then Jordan is clearly the GOAT and it's a fake debate to begin with.

but since it appears that no one goes by MVP's, stats or rings, then KD is definitely in the GOAT conversation.. There's no argument for anyone over him if we aren't going by stats, rings and MVP's

the case for KD occurs if we go by team ceiling and dominating a great player in the Finals - he had the highest team ceiling and he dominated Lebron twice in the Finals - this would make him goat based on the criteria of team ceiling and dominating a great player on the championship level.

[FKAri]

if we AREN'T going by mvp's, stats or rings as the best player, then Durant can be in the goat conversation.

if we ARE going by those things, then Jordan is clearly the GOAT and it's a fake debate to begin with.

but since it appears that no one goes by MVP's, stats or rings, then KD is definitely in the GOAT conversation.. There's no argument for anyone over him if we aren't going by stats, rings and MVP's

the case for KD occurs if we go by team ceiling and dominating a great player in the Finals - he had the highest team ceiling and he dominated Lebron twice in the Finals - this would make him goat based on the criteria of team ceiling and dominating a great player on the championship level.
He didn't really dominate another great. That's a knock against him. However he did raise the ceiling of an already all-time great team. Harder to do than many would admit. It's a testament to his plug and play ability and off the ball play. Credit to Steph and the Warriors for accommodating and integrating him in as well. But he's one of the easiest to fit in pieces of his caliber in NBA history.

[3ba11]

He didn't really dominate another great. That's a knock against him. However he did raise the ceiling of an already all-time great team. Harder to do than many would admit. It's a testament to his plug and play ability and off the ball play. Credit to Steph and the Warriors for accommodating and integrating him in as well. But he's one of the easiest to fit in pieces of his caliber in NBA history.


plug-and-play is everything - it determines winning

And that's why Durant is better than Lebron - his expert jumpshooting skill fits with everyone and allows the highest strategic capacity/coaching, while Lebron doesn't allow the best coaching/strategy or chemistry because he has a more simpleton, ball-dominator (luka-ball) skillset..

We can think about it this way - the jumpshooting ability of KD or Kobe allowed them to MEET EXPECTATION with the Warriors or Lakers, while Lebron's weaker brand of ball would probably butcher the 3-peat with Shaq or fail to have the goat team like Durant did in the Bay area... This is based on him butchering the 3-peat with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love, or AD

Ultimately, Lebron's game is inferior because it yields lower team ceilings, bad championship records and really bad blowout losses or sweeps.. Similar to Shaq's many sweeps, the one-dimensional nature of Lebron's game (ball-domination and weak shooting) causes massive blowouts against superior brands of ball.

Btw, even if you don't think KD dominated Lebron twice, he certainly outplayed him and won FMVP over him - that's a goat achievement to outplay high-ranking player like that.. Only MJ has done that (outplayed a top 5 all-time guy, aka 91' Finals.. or actually bird too over magic/kareem in 84' and vice versa in other years)

[FKAri]

plug-and-play is everything - it determines winning

And that's why Durant is better than Lebron - his expert jumpshooting skill fits with everyone and allows the highest strategic capacity/coaching, while Lebron doesn't allow the best coaching/strategy or chemistry because he has a more simpleton, ball-dominator (luka-ball) skillset..

We can think about it this way - the jumpshooting ability of KD or Kobe allowed them to MEET EXPECTATION with the Warriors or Lakers, while Lebron's weaker brand of ball would probably butcher the 3-peat with Shaq or fail to have the goat team like Durant did in the Bay area...

Ultimately, Lebron's game is inferior because it yields lower team ceilings, bad championship records and really bad blowout losses or sweeps.. Similar to Shaq's many sweeps, the one-dimensional nature of Lebron's game (ball-domination and weak shooting) causes massive blowouts against superior brands of ball.

If KD and Bron swap places I think Bron could do a better job of replicating KD's success than vice versa. KD doesn't do nearly as much as Bron in that 1st Cavs stint. Whereas Bron could more closely replicate KD's output on those Thunder or even Warriors teams. He'd fit in quite well actually on the Warriors. He'd be like a super Draymond. This is why I consider Bron > KD.

I don't think KD is better but KD can be a better fit for your team than Bron depending on the pieces. But this is a very different argument than GOAT imo. I'd pick KG or Ray Allen over a lot of players all time for who I want on my team but it doesn't mean they're better than those other guys.


Btw, even if you don't think KD dominated Lebron twice, he certainly outplayed him and won FMVP over him - that's a goat achievement to outplay high-ranking player like that..

It's not the same because the defense isn't keyed in on him.

[3ba11]

If KD and Bron swap places I think Bron could do a better job of replicating KD's success than vice versa. KD doesn't do nearly as much as Bron in that 1st Cavs stint. Whereas Bron could more closely replicate KD's output on those Thunder or even Warriors teams. He'd fit in quite well actually on the Warriors. He'd be like a super Draymond. This is why I consider Bron > KD.

I don't think KD is better but KD can be a better fit for your team than Bron depending on the pieces. But this is a very different argument than GOAT imo. I'd pick KG or Ray Allen over a lot of players all time for who I want on my team but it doesn't mean they're better than those other guys.



It's not the same because the defense isn't keyed in on him.


that's a fine point to say that KD wouldn't do as well with those early Cleveland teams............

except it's wrong, for 2 reasons:



1) Lebron didn't win with those early Cleveland teams because he literally went lottery, lottery, 2nd Round loss, sweep loss, 2nd Round loss (locked up), historic upset loss in ECF, 2nd Round upset loss
Since when is that a good record that Durant can't match or exceed?.. :wtf:




2) The 2009 Magic were one of the 5 biggest underdogs to ever win a playoff series (+700) because the heavily-favored Cavs played an inferior brand of ball, which wouldn't happen with Durant's jumpshooting and ball movement.. Durant's 38 ppg wouldn't be horrible brand of ball-dominance like Lebron's, and Durant wouldn't turn into a 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time (last 5 within 5) like Lebron did - no team can win if the primary ballhandler turns into a 12 TO player in clutch-time and gets dominated by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT.. So Durant would have a vastly superior brand of ball that would realize the Cavs' massive favorite status instead of underachieving the expectation like Lebron's inferior brand of ball did... Mo would also play better in the playoffs alongside Durant because there would be no "solving" the Cavs simple brand of ball-dominance like the Magic easily did vs Lebron

[tpols]

If KD and Bron swap places I think Bron could do a better job of replicating KD's success than vice versa. KD doesn't do nearly as much as Bron in that 1st Cavs stint. Whereas Bron could more closely replicate KD's output on those Thunder or even Warriors teams. He'd fit in quite well actually on the Warriors. He'd be like a super Draymond. This is why I consider Bron > KD.

I don't think KD is better but KD can be a better fit for your team than Bron depending on the pieces. But this is a very different argument than GOAT imo. I'd pick KG or Ray Allen over a lot of players all time for who I want on my team but it doesn't mean they're better than those other guys.



It's not the same because the defense isn't keyed in on him.


This is an absolutely retarded take.

Even the staunchest of Lebron fans would admit that LeBron and Westbrook would be an absolutely awful fit and win nothing together.

We literally saw that experiment play out and the Lakers looked 10x better once they unloaded Westbrook.

This pretty much has to be a troll post looking to invoke an incidienary response.

[ArbitraryWater]

Mo Williams should be in the GOAT convo because he scored 52 points once. At his best, he wouldn't look out of place among the greats. Same goes for Tony Delk and Corey Brewer.


lmao I see what youre doing here #kblaze

[ArbitraryWater]

This is an absolutely retarded take.

Even the staunchest of Lebron fans would admit that LeBron and Westbrook would be an absolutely awful fit and win nothing together.

We literally saw that experiment play out and the Lakers looked 10x better once they unloaded Westbrook.

This pretty much has to be a troll post looking to invoke an incidienary response.

They wouldnt be ideal but youre not being specific enough

Put Bron on the 2011-2014 OKC teams, whos beating them? The 2014 Spurs probably, but theres at least 2 rings in there.


Bron plays at GOAT level in the playoffs, he puts them over in ways KD cant.

[Axe]

No, they played 40 playoff games with just KD and no Steph.
:oldlol:

[tontoz]

actually, Isiah is another pure basketball argument guy. Just happens to have the intangibles argument as well. What he lacks is overwhelming counting stats but if that’s what we are using we would have to rebuild the whole thing from the ground up. The traditional basketball+accomplishments+intangibles argument works fine for Isiah and he’s always been ranked accordingly.

A few people like you who have very specific statistical standards of what greatness is will always have a different take. You wanna heavily lean on any of the big 4(Basketball, accomplishments, intangibles, and stats) you have different ranking depending on which you favor. I’d say Isiah is highly ranked in 3. KD also 3 but a different 3. Kobe is 3 having lost the stats standing fast with what the game has become. Do Bird and Magic have elite stats the way we look at it now? Does Jordan after the first 3 peat?

Really I don’t know who is gonna keep elite status numbers wise long term.

Might end up like baseball where 30 home runs used to make you god but now you might be ignored. We will have to see.


Lacks overwhelming counting stats? :oldlol:

What counting stats does he have that would even be good, relative to other ATG pgs?

Career wise.....anything?

Per game 19/9 with weak shooting relative to his peers. Yawn. Not a noteworthy defender either. His assists per game were relatively high but not special. KJ put up almost identical numbers with better efficiency.

His last All-NBA team was at age 25 and he was out of the league at 32.

[tontoz]

For the record KD played 48 playoff games total with GS. During that same 3 year span Steph played in 54 playoff games.

[AlternativeAcc.]

if we AREN'T going by mvp's, stats or rings as the best player, then Durant can be in the goat conversation.

if we ARE going by those things, then Jordan is clearly the GOAT and it's a fake debate to begin with.

but since it appears that no one goes by MVP's, stats or rings, then KD is definitely in the GOAT conversation.. There's no argument for anyone over him if we aren't going by stats, rings and MVP's

the case for KD occurs if we go by team ceiling and dominating a great player in the Finals - he had the highest team ceiling and he dominated Lebron twice in the Finals - this would make him goat based on the criteria of team ceiling and dominating a great player on the championship level.
This...

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Bird

Most versatile and pluggable players in history...

Lebron has won with 3 different teams

Durant and Bird just fit anywhere and maximize team ceiling.

Good post

[warriorfan]

K Blazes updated top 10 list (in no particular order)

Michael Jordan , LeBron James, Shaq, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Stephen Curry, Kevin Garnett, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Nikola Jokic, Bill Walton, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard, Julius Erving, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Moses Malone, Anthony Davis, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, James Harden, George Mikan, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Tracy McGrady, Dwight Howard, Joel Embiid, Bob Pettit, Scottie Pippen, Luka Doncic, Rick Barry.

[tontoz]

LOL

I am generally not that interested in these all time lists but it is pretty easy to make a case for KD somewhere 11-20 which is obviously elite.

[warriorfan]

LOL

I am generally not that interested in these all time lists but it is pretty easy to make a case for KD somewhere 11-20 which is obviously elite.

Yeah, that’s the thing, it’s not like it’s some huge dis on KD and everyone is fading him super hard.

The fact he’s in a conversation to be in a conversation with the GOAT shows he’s being greatly honored.

[PeroAntic]

No, they played 40 playoff games with just KD and no Steph.

How stupid do you have to be to not realize that its a rhetorical question and literally making a point.

[warriorfan]

How stupid do you have to be to not realize that its a rhetorical question and literally making a point.

I don’t know about you but I watched 80 to 90% of the games when KD was on the Warriors.

I could go on in very lengthy detail but a picture is worth a thousand words.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/(edited)_Screenshot_20220701-162940.png

[Axe]

Kd warriors were truly stacked af. Nothing more, nothing less. If you hesitate to believe that, then you might as well look at the 2019 wcf in which the dubs swept the blazers without kd's help at all. And then gerbil stans suddenly try to bring up his injury as to why they lost in the finals against the raptors. :roll:

Can't have it both ways. :confusedshrug:

[PeroAntic]

I don’t know about you but I watched 80 to 90% of the games when KD was on the Warriors.

I could go on in very lengthy detail but a picture is worth a thousand words.


No its not, its misleading. Im pretty sure if I look for it, I can find the opposite situation.

Everyone made each other better at GSW, and Durant's ability to fit in perfectly was already noted by others here. I don't deny Curry's gravity or greatness as a player, but in the end when it mattered the most he deferred to Durant. He knew who was the best player on that team as did everyone else there.

There is no contest to the fact that Durant was the best player on the best team ever, who destroyed a legitimate goat candidate in Lebron (and his own superteam) TWICE, and contributed the most to those rings in the finals (and playoffs). That has more weight than people seem to think and it offsets his issues like collusion/joining rivals etc. Add to that his unmatched natural talent and he has to be around top ten ever. The phrase "born to play basketball" can be applied to many players but Durant is pretty much the perfect basketball player.

btw its not just the style as some say otherwise Carmelo would be in the goat conversation as well. KD is smart and efficient and does everything at an elite level.

[warriorfan]

No its not, its misleading. Im pretty sure if I look for it, I can find the opposite situation.

Everyone made each other better at GSW, and Durant's ability to fit in perfectly was already noted by others here. I don't deny Curry's gravity or greatness as a player, but in the end when it mattered the most he deferred to Durant. He knew who was the best player on that team as did everyone else there.

There is no contest to the fact that Durant was the best player on the best team ever, who destroyed a legitimate goat candidate in Lebron (and his own superteam) TWICE, and contributed the most to those rings in the finals (and playoffs). That has more weight than people seem to think and it offsets his issues like collusion/joining rivals etc. Add to that his unmatched natural talent and he has to be around top ten ever. The phrase "born to play basketball" can be applied to many players but Durant is pretty much the perfect basketball player.

btw its not just the style as some say otherwise Carmelo would be in the goat conversation as well. KD is smart and efficient and does everything at an elite level.

You are missing the point. That picture above wasn’t a one off. It was a microcosm of what happened when he was on Golden State.

Steph made the game easier for KD and the rest of the team

You can’t say the same to the extent about KD the other way around.

His 2017 season was amazing. After that he stopped playing defense most of the time and there was periods where he would hijack the offense.

Your narrative of deferring to KD are a joke too. Go rewatch the finals. They threw everything at Curry not KD. I guess Curry was deferring when feeding KD wide open layups as they keep trying to trap him over and over? lol.

You are viewing this through a lense of it was LeBron vs KD and KD overpowered him. This isn’t boxing. It’s a team game with lots of nuance to it and you are glossing over all of it.

[3ba11]

Curry's 2022 title puts him over KD imo.. How did he win with Wiggins? He doesn't get anywhere NEAR enough credit for this

The toughest titles are won with a non-franchise player at sidekick like Jason Terry, Klay, Wiggins, baby Siakam, Middleton, Pau or Parker - these titles required the first option to carry the scoring load on championship level (defeat max defensive attention), while titles won with franchise guys at sidekick like Kareem, Wade, AD or Kyrie don't require the 1st option to defeat max defensive attention (no need to carry scoring load in Finals) - Durant won this kind of title where he had a franchise guy at sidekick and therefore didn't need to carry scoring load, while Curry won 2 titles with NON-franchise guys at sidekick that required Curry to carry scoring load... Curry simply did more and this includes having a 70 win team dynasty and goat offense with just Klay as the only other scorer.

[Baller234]

GTFO he is not even close to being in the goat convo. At no point was he unanimously considered the best player in basketball. Not if you're being serious. Lebron was always in his way and at no point was he ever better than Lebron. The Warriors were the best team but Lebron was always the best player. And even if we concede that Warriors were the best team of the decade, he had zero hand in building the team's championship culture. They were an elite championship level team before he got there and even won again in his absence.

KD was an elite bucket getter but never a true alpha or leader on the floor. He proved that by running away to GS.

People say oh he's a very pluggable player, lol of course he is... every team can use a bucket getter, but real goats don't get "plugged in". They are the outlet. You plug other players into THEM.

Great player, not a goat... sorry.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'd say on offense he's up there with anyone.

Overall? If you wanna argue KD, you'd have to put a number of other names in the "GOAT discussion" then. I'd take peak Wade over Durant. Steph and probably Kobe as well.

Ignore accolades, certain stats, team achievements and all-around context, sure. You can throw his name out there.

[Xiao Yao You]

NBA Central: “You gotta do what Steph did to get into that conversation.” (https://*********.com/social/) – Draymond Green on Kevin Durant wanting to be in the G.O.A.T convo (Via @TheVolumeSports ) pic.twitter.com/6J1H3HlTQn

[warriorfan]

NBA Central: “You gotta do what Steph did to get into that conversation.” (https://*********.com/social/) – Draymond Green on Kevin Durant wanting to be in the G.O.A.T convo (Via @TheVolumeSports ) pic.twitter.com/6J1H3HlTQn

:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

NBA Central: “You gotta do what Steph did to get into that conversation.” (https://*********.com/social/) – Draymond Green on Kevin Durant wanting to be in the G.O.A.T convo (Via @TheVolumeSports ) pic.twitter.com/6J1H3HlTQn

About the only thing Draymond's done right this year. :lol

[highwhey]

NBA Central: “You gotta do what Steph did to get into that conversation.” (https://*********.com/social/) – Draymond Green on Kevin Durant wanting to be in the G.O.A.T convo (Via @TheVolumeSports ) pic.twitter.com/6J1H3HlTQn

what he do? welcome a top 3 talent to his 72 win team? barely defeat an injury riddled cavs? lebron still gave him the business.

[rmt]

He's the GOAT at letting his ego get in the way of winning (more rings).

[PeroAntic]

You are missing the point. That picture above wasn’t a one off. It was a microcosm of what happened when he was on Golden State.

Steph made the game easier for KD and the rest of the team

You can’t say the same to the extent about KD the other way around.

His 2017 season was amazing. After that he stopped playing defense most of the time and there was periods where he would hijack the offense.

Your narrative of deferring to KD are a joke too. Go rewatch the finals. They threw everything at Curry not KD. I guess Curry was deferring when feeding KD wide open layups as they keep trying to trap him over and over? lol.

You are viewing this through a lense of it was LeBron vs KD and KD overpowered him. This isn’t boxing. It’s a team game with lots of nuance to it and you are glossing over all of it.

Its a team game but Durant and Lebron were the best players on those teams. What Cleveland threw or didnt throw at Curry is irrelevant, it didnt work and we can only speculate what would happen if they trap Durant instead. That didnt happen, Durant scored those wide open layups (hey why didnt Javale Mcgee win the mvp if all he needed to do is score open layups?) and Warriors won. How much one player made it easier for the other and how much vice versa is impossible to estimate at these margins of quality. But it was a two way street. In the end it was Durant who took the ball up the court and nailed those two daggers in the crucial games of 2017 and 2018, not Curry. Deal however you want with it.

[rmt]

Its a team game but Durant and Lebron were the best players on those teams. What Cleveland threw or didnt throw at Curry is irrelevant, it didnt work and we can only speculate what would happen if they trap Durant instead. That didnt happen, Durant scored those wide open layups (hey why didnt Javale Mcgee win the mvp if all he needed to do is score open layups?) and Warriors won. How much one player made it easier for the other and how much vice versa is impossible to estimate at these margins of quality. But it was a two way street. In the end it was Durant who took the ball up the court and nailed those two daggers in the crucial games of 2017 and 2018, not Curry. Deal however you want with it.

The defense is usually centered around the better player similar to Shaq/Kobe and Duncan/Manu (in 05) - allowing the other player to roam more freely. In the scenario of Steph/KD where KD is more of an iso player and Steph the one with more range and better/more willing passing, I would choose to trap Steph and take my chances with KD hitting or missing.

[BarberSchool]

I’ll say it again:

When KD went to the warriors, he tarnished/ruined many legacies:

Tarnished:

Steph
Klay
Kerr

Ruined:
His own
Westbrick

Allow me to be more brutal:

Any player who wants to be considered in the GOAT convo, has to have a broad appeal, an intriguing personality, and a marketable image. Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kareem, LeBron … all these players have incredibly interesting personalities and mesmerizing talent. And marketable personalities and images, give or take.

Durant has the talent ….

But It’s hard to market a player as the face of the league, when they physically look like a malnourished masai tribesman, with a 3rd world haircut and 3rd world facial hair. Kevin Durant literally looks like his name is Lumbutu Mplonda Chuwizi. And he looks like he never took a vitamin in his life lol

[rmt]

Allow me to be more brutal:

Any player who wants to be considered in the GOAT convo, has to have a broad appeal, an intriguing personality, and a marketable image. Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kareem, LeBron … all these players have incredibly interesting personalities and mesmerizing talent. And marketable personalities and images, give or take.

Durant has the talent ….

But It’s hard to market a player as the face of the league, when they physically look like a malnourished masai tribesman, with a 3rd world haircut and 3rd world facial hair. Kevin Durant literally looks like his name is Lumbutu Mplonda Chuwizi. And he looks like he never took a vitamin in his life lol

Hahahahaha - lol.

[BarberSchool]

https://bossip.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/28/2017/06/kdfeat.jpg

This is as close to the GOAT as Durant will ever get….

[BarberSchool]

https://blacksportsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/IMG_0710.jpg

Cmon son, you’re worth over a quarter of a billion dollars.

[warriorfan]

https://i.postimg.cc/28f1F0ks/IMG-2297.jpg

got a weird ass shaped head too. momma hit him too many times with a broomstick or something

[BarberSchool]

https://youtu.be/jvEFMu_kEKs?feature=shared

[BarberSchool]

https://i.postimg.cc/28f1F0ks/IMG-2297.jpg

got a weird ass shaped head too. momma hit him too many times with a broomstick or something
Kevin’s momma looks like if Bernie Mac (R.I.P. one of the best!) had an obese sister with a learning disability…. So in her defense … she couldn’t pass on good looks no matter what. she did a magnificent job with what she could tho ! Her son is a top 20 player of all time. Maybe top 15.

[warriorfan]

Kevin’s momma looks like if Bernie Mac (R.I.P. one of the best!) had an obese sister with a learning disability…. So in her defense … she couldn’t pass on good looks no matter what. she did a magnificent job with what she could tho ! Her son is a top 20 player of all time. Maybe top 15.

:lol

no joke, that’s one ugly bitch

[John8204]

People don't like putting Wilt in the GOAT discussion....and that guy led the league in assists, rebounds, and points. Made the divisional and conference finals for over half his career.

40 years from now will anyone really care about Durant