Joel Embiid is shooting 50.5% from midrange, here's how it matches up historically

[90sgoat]

Midrange superstars

Joel Embiid - 23/24: 50.5% on 6.6 attempts
Dirk Nowitsky - 10/11: 52.9% on 9.1 attempts
Kevin Durant - 18/19: 55.1% on 5.9 attempts
Kawhi Leonard 16/17: 47.3% on 6.3 attempts
Michael Jordan 96/97: 48.9% on 14.7 attempts :eek::wtf:
Kobe Bryant 08/09: 42% on 9.3 attempts

Things are looking good for Joel Embiid with these midrange numbers.

If you look back on the stats, when someone shoots this high a midrange number, they're usually in contention to win a championship.

Also lol at MJ and his 14 midrange shots pr. game at 49%, that's patently absurd high numbers, like 5 more attempts than peak Dirk. And not even Prime MJ.

[StrongLurk]

Midrange superstars

Joel Embiid - 23/24: 50.5%
Dirk Nowitsky - 10/11: 52.9%
Kevin Durant - 18/19: 55.1%
Kawhi Leonard 16/17: 47.3%
Michael Jordan 96/97: 48.9% (on 14 FGA :eek::wtf:)

Things are looking good for Joel Embiid with these midrange numbers.

If you look back on the stats, when someone shoots this high a midrange number, they're usually in contention to win a championship.

Also lol at MJ and his 14 midrange shots pr. game at 49%, that's patently absurd high numbers, like 5 more attempts than peak Dirk. And not even Prime MJ.

96-98 is probably prime MJ for pure midrange shooting, but yeah definitely not his peak overall as a player.

Embiid's shooting has been insanely impressive considering he did not come into the league like that (same with Kawhi). With that being said, we need VOLUME along with percentages here.

[Im Still Ballin]

Embiid was a 38-39% midrange shooter over his first four seasons (16-17 to 19-20). He upped his game in 2020-21 and has been at 48% over the last four seasons including this one so far. Midrange being defined as two-point shots from 10+ feet.

[90sgoat]

96-98 is probably prime MJ for pure midrange shooting, but yeah definitely not his peak overall as a player.

Embiid's shooting has been insanely impressive considering he did not come into the league like that (same with Kawhi). With that being said, we need VOLUME along with percentages here.

I updated it.

MJ is just a beast.

Stats like these prove why MJ is a GOAT in his literal own class.

Imagine taking almost twice as many shots as Dirk and still hitting at 50%.

Also, KD on Warriors was definitely peaking in terms of efficiency all time in the NBA. He doesn't get the credit, but he was unstoppable. 55% from midrange is absurdly efficient.

[dankok8]

Prime MJ was north of 50% shooting from midrange on like 12+ attempts a game.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1467808

We have very limited samples but Bird almost surely shot around 50% from midrange too.

[90sgoat]

Interestingly MJ's efficiency drops A LOT in the playoffs. He is at 40% in both seasons, they don't have going back to 1996, but I bet its the same. Don't think it's exclusive to MJ though.

[elementally morale]

Embiid is 57% on 2 pointers. Both Jokic and Giannis are at 64%. Jokic in his last 15 games is at 71% on 78% TS. 15 games is not a bad sample. (It is btw the best 15 game stretch of all time with anyone averaging over 25ppg.)

That being said, Embiid is very good at shooting midrange jumpers. However, his 36 points are the direct result of him taking more shots and shot attems resulting in FTs than the others ahead of him in efficiency. More importantly we just have to wait and see how his performance changes in the playoffs. I hope he is better this year in the postseason than he has been in the past few years. Historically speaking he is elite but to me not in the best to ever do it discussion. At least not yet.

[BarberSchool]

I updated it.

MJ is just a beast.

Stats like these prove why MJ is a GOAT in his literal own class.

Imagine taking almost twice as many shots as Dirk and still hitting at 50%.

Also, KD on Warriors was definitely peaking in terms of efficiency all time in the NBA. He doesn't get the credit, but he was unstoppable. 55% from midrange is absurdly efficient.and they were almost all turnaround post up high difficulty fadeaways, probably almost 12-15% of em under 5 seconds on the shot clock lol

[Im Still Ballin]

and they were almost all turnaround post up high difficulty fadeaways, probably almost 12-15% of em under 5 seconds on the shot clock lol

Being able to hit those broken play/late shot-clock shots is KEY. It makes me wonder how the difference in efficiency of players might simply come down to one being willing to take those difficult shots versus another hot potato'ing the ball to someone else/a spot-up shooter.

[BarberSchool]

Being able to hit those broken play/late shot-clock shots is KEY. It makes me wonder how the difference in efficiency of players might simply come down to one being willing to take those difficult shots versus another hot potato'ing the ball to someone else/a spot-up shooter.

Mike also ALWAYS wanted to take the end of quarter shots from crazy distances…. And never once released one AFTER the buzzer, like we see so many fakers doing now. It’s one thing when they had to double clutch due to a defender, or when they released it just a few hundredths AFTER the red light came on … these MF now still have it on their fingertips at -negative0.3sec … nicca you ain’t fooling nobody !!

So while that doesn’t apply to these specific midrange samples … it does speak to his actual FG%, and especially 3fg% for his career, both being slightly higher if he didn’t insist on jacking up every single one of those end of quarter heaves.

[Phoenix]

Midrange superstars

Joel Embiid - 23/24: 50.5% on 6.6 attempts
Dirk Nowitsky - 10/11: 52.9% on 9.1 attempts
Kevin Durant - 18/19: 55.1% on 5.9 attempts
Kawhi Leonard 16/17: 47.3% on 6.3 attempts
Michael Jordan 96/97: 48.9% on 14.7 attempts :eek::wtf:
Kobe Bryant 08/09: 42% on 9.3 attempts

Things are looking good for Joel Embiid with these midrange numbers.

If you look back on the stats, when someone shoots this high a midrange number, they're usually in contention to win a championship.

Also lol at MJ and his 14 midrange shots pr. game at 49%, that's patently absurd high numbers, like 5 more attempts than peak Dirk. And not even Prime MJ.

2nd 3peat MJ had his mid-range and fadeaway on semi-automatic. But yeah, those numbers are crazy when you consider the mid-range area was way more packed in the 90's than today.

[90sgoat]

2nd 3peat MJ had his mid-range and fadeaway on semi-automatic. But yeah, those numbers are crazy when you consider the mid-range area was way more packed in the 90's than today.

Kawhi plays the closest to MJ today and he looks god damn automatic from midrange, but he is shooting less than half the volume and hitting 2-3% less. Kobe practically played exactly the same and shot 5% worse.

[GOBB]

Embiid > Jokic

[Airupthere]

How does Shai stack up? His mid range game is solid.

[tpols]

I updated it.

MJ is just a beast.

Stats like these prove why MJ is a GOAT in his literal own class.

Imagine taking almost twice as many shots as Dirk and still hitting at 50%.

Also, KD on Warriors was definitely peaking in terms of efficiency all time in the NBA. He doesn't get the credit, but he was unstoppable. 55% from midrange is absurdly efficient.

I'm surprised Warriors Durant even missed 45% of his shots. It felt like he never missed.

[tpols]

Mike also ALWAYS wanted to take the end of quarter shots from crazy distances…. And never once released one AFTER the buzzer, like we see so many fakers doing now. It’s one thing when they had to double clutch due to a defender, or when they released it just a few hundredths AFTER the red light came on … these MF now still have it on their fingertips at -negative0.3sec … nicca you ain’t fooling nobody !!

So while that doesn’t apply to these specific midrange samples … it does speak to his actual FG%, and especially 3fg% for his career, both being slightly higher if he didn’t insist on jacking up every single one of those end of quarter heaves.

Yea that shit is so wack. You never see stars take those heaves anymore because they're trying to protect their %'s.

[iamgine]

Dirk MVP season: 49.6%

Durant MVP season: 44.4%

Kobe MVP season: 38.8%

[Duffy Pratt]

Yea that shit is so wack. You never see stars take those heaves anymore because they're trying to protect their %'s.

Except Joker. He will do end of quarter heaves and shot clock expiring heaaves, without hesitation. Guy simply does not care about his stats at all.

[Duffy Pratt]

Embiid > Jokic

Joker is shooting 53.7% from midrange, but with only 3.1 attempts per game. And he’s having a subpar shooting year from 16 feet out, so far. Embiid may be a better shooter, and he might even be a better player, but it’s not at all clear.

[elementally morale]

Embiid may be a better shooter, and he might even be a better player, but it’s not at all clear.

It is clear that so far in their careers Embiid hasn't been the better player. He still has time though.

[warriorfan]

Mike also ALWAYS wanted to take the end of quarter shots from crazy distances…. And never once released one AFTER the buzzer, like we see so many fakers doing now. It’s one thing when they had to double clutch due to a defender, or when they released it just a few hundredths AFTER the red light came on … these MF now still have it on their fingertips at -negative0.3sec … nicca you ain’t fooling nobody !!

So while that doesn’t apply to these specific midrange samples … it does speak to his actual FG%, and especially 3fg% for his career, both being slightly higher if he didn’t insist on jacking up every single one of those end of quarter heaves.

That always gets me when they release it a little too late on purpose :lol

Embarrassing.

[tpols]

Except Joker. He will do end of quarter heaves and shot clock expiring heaaves, without hesitation. Guy simply does not care about his stats at all.

Which makes it all the more amazing he has the best high volume efficiency of all time. With no endorsements or WWE rigging. Straight GOAT.

His teammates say he doesn't even care much about basketball and he's much more passionate about horse racing.

And it makes sense. A lot of guys miss because they care too much. Jokic doesn't really care. He has no anxiety about missing. So the shots just generally go in.

[Airupthere]

Yea that shit is so wack. You never see stars take those heaves anymore because they're trying to protect their %'s.

This is Lebron and Wade back in the Heatles

“It’s like a competition me and D-Wade are having right now about who can shoot 50 percent, in each and every game,” James said, when asked a couple of days later. “I had no idea, because I don’t know what’s going on throughout the game as far as stats. I came in after the game, I saw 9-for-19 [against the Bobcats in late December] and I missed that last long three, I felt I could have gotten into the lane and got a layup. I’ve got to make up for it.” [...]

“We’re both so conscious of wanting to shoot 50 percent, that sometimes you wish you had that Kobe (Bryant) thought, where you just don’t care,” Wade said. “We talk about it all the time. It sucks at times, but it’s who we are.”

[Duffy Pratt]

It is clear that so far in their careers Embiid hasn't been the better player. He still has time though.

I agree. But I will grant that Embiid may be the better shooter from 16+. And I will also grant that Embiid has been a better rim protector. Both players have improved, year after year. I think the Denver organization has been much better than Philly, and this has helped Joker (although Joker is also a main reason for the organization being so good). I like Joker more, by a lot, but I would love to see these guys meet in a finals. (It’s also not entirely clear to me yet that Embiid is a playoff vanishing act. That’s what the “experts” were saying about Joker last year, and it was also Dirk’s reputation for years.)

[Duffy Pratt]

Which makes it all the more amazing he has the best high volume efficiency of all time. With no endorsements or WWE rigging. Straight GOAT.

His teammates say he doesn't even care much about basketball and he's much more passionate about horse racing.

And it makes sense. A lot of guys miss because they care too much. Jokic doesn't really care. He has no anxiety about missing. So the shots just generally go in.

I’d love to get a more complete take on what his not caring about basketball means. He clearly has worked a ton on his game from year to year. Each year, there has been improvement. He is also clearly extremely competitive. And his basketball IQ is off the charts. So what is his not caring here? — about individual records? about his legacy? about its relative importance to family and his homeland? Or is it that he wishes he had been 5’3” and skinny so he could have been a jockey?

[elementally morale]

I agree. But I will grant that Embiid may be the better shooter from 16+. And I will also grant that Embiid has been a better rim protector. Both players have improved, year after year. I think the Denver organization has been much better than Philly, and this has helped Joker (although Joker is also a main reason for the organization being so good). I like Joker more, by a lot, but I would love to see these guys meet in a finals. (It’s also not entirely clear to me yet that Embiid is a playoff vanishing act. That’s what the “experts” were saying about Joker last year, and it was also Dirk’s reputation for years.)

I started following these players closely 5-6 years ago. They interested me the most. For a while I thought they were even as Embiid was better on defense enough to offset Jokic' more well-rounded offense. Then in the last 2-3 years I was leaning towards Jokic as the offensive gap became greater and the defensive gap moved the opposite direction as Jokic became a much better team defender. This year I'd call it even again because Embiid is better than ever. But they don't play enough H2H games, unfortunately. So a Nuggets-76ers Finals has been my dream for years. Still is.

Jokic played better in the playoffs than in the regular seasons. He never disappeared. You can't win if your team is simply not good enough but his actual play never diminished in the postseason.

[GOBB]

Joker is shooting 53.7% from midrange, but with only 3.1 attempts per game. And he’s having a subpar shooting year from 16 feet out, so far. Embiid may be a better shooter, and he might even be a better player, but it’s not at all clear.

Oh it’s clear alright. Embiid is the most dominant big man we have witnessed since Shaq. Enjoy the bucket show. He's scoring like we haven’t seen from a big. Shout out to Jokic tho. Kewl passer

[Duffy Pratt]

I started following these players closely 5-6 years ago. They interested me the most. For a while I thought they were even as Embiid was better on defense enough to offset Jokic' more well-rounded offense. Then in the last 2-3 years I was leaning towards Jokic as the offensive gap became greater and the defensive gap moved the opposite direction as Jokic became a much better team defender. This year I'd call it even again because Embiid is better than ever. But they don't play enough H2H games, unfortunately. So a Nuggets-76ers Finals has been my dream for years. Still is.

Jokic played better in the playoffs than in the regular seasons. He never disappeared. You can't win if your team is simply not good enough but his actual play never diminished in the postseason.


Joker is now a much underrated defender. And I think Embiid is a bit overrated on D.

Embiid’s game relies pretty heavily on hunting the free throw line. That diminishes in the playoffs. Also, Embiid likes to feast on bad teams - thus, dropping 70 on the Spurs. Joker tends to refuse to shoot against those teams. And finally, Embiid has been known to duck games against tougher teams, while Joker is pretty much always available. All of these explain, at least in part, why Embiids numbers drop in the post-season. It would be nice to see him step it up this year, but I have my doubts. Also, now that you need an “injury” to load manage, it’s pretty clear that Embiid will always have a nagging “injury” to fall back on as an excuse.

[Duffy Pratt]

Oh it’s clear alright. Embiid is the most dominant big man we have witnessed since Shaq. Enjoy the bucket show. He's scoring like we haven’t seen from a big. Shout out to Jokic tho. Kewl passer

Yeah, right - This year Joker is shooting 59% from the field, Embiid is at 54%. Joker and Embiid are both 36% from 3, and Joker is 66% true shooting while Embiid is 65%. This is a down year for Joker. Last year, he was 63% from the field and 38% from 3 on 70% TS. Compared to 55, 33 and 66 for Embiid. So how is it clear that Embiid is a better shooter? As for the better player — Joker plays. Embiid sits out a quarter of the season. No one dominates the games they don’t play in. Again, I don’t think this is clear at all.

[Chick Stern]

Oh it’s clear alright. Embiid is the most dominant big man we have witnessed since Shaq. Enjoy the bucket show. He's scoring like we haven’t seen from a big. Shout out to Jokic tho. Kewl passer

Most dominant at crying

[Xiao Yao You]

Most dominant at crying

don't undersell his falling to the floor

[GOBB]

Yeah, right - This year Joker is shooting 59% from the field, Embiid is at 54%. Joker and Embiid are both 36% from 3, and Joker is 66% true shooting while Embiid is 65%. This is a down year for Joker. Last year, he was 63% from the field and 38% from 3 on 70% TS. Compared to 55, 33 and 66 for Embiid. So how is it clear that Embiid is a better shooter? As for the better player — Joker plays. Embiid sits out a quarter of the season. No one dominates the games they don’t play in. Again, I don’t think this is clear at all.

No im talking clear as who is the better big. Shooting Schmooting.

[Im Still Ballin]

Yea that shit is so wack. You never see stars take those heaves anymore because they're trying to protect their %'s.


That always gets me when they release it a little too late on purpose :lol

Embarrassing.


Which makes it all the more amazing he has the best high volume efficiency of all time. With no endorsements or WWE rigging. Straight GOAT.

His teammates say he doesn't even care much about basketball and he's much more passionate about horse racing.

And it makes sense. A lot of guys miss because they care too much. Jokic doesn't really care. He has no anxiety about missing. So the shots just generally go in.


This is Lebron and Wade back in the Heatles

“It’s like a competition me and D-Wade are having right now about who can shoot 50 percent, in each and every game,” James said, when asked a couple of days later. “I had no idea, because I don’t know what’s going on throughout the game as far as stats. I came in after the game, I saw 9-for-19 [against the Bobcats in late December] and I missed that last long three, I felt I could have gotten into the lane and got a layup. I’ve got to make up for it.” [...]

“We’re both so conscious of wanting to shoot 50 percent, that sometimes you wish you had that Kobe (Bryant) thought, where you just don’t care,” Wade said. “We talk about it all the time. It sucks at times, but it’s who we are.”

It's a shame we don't have shot-tracking data from Kobe's prime. In 2014-15, Kobe took 2.7 shots per game when the shot clock was between 0-4. In comparison, a prime LeBron took 2.8 shots per game. I imagine Kobe from 2001 to 2013 was clearing LeBron and probably anyone in the NBA with ease.

[Duffy Pratt]

No im talking clear as who is the better big. Shooting Schmooting.

Joker plays D on Embiid. Embiid doesn’t try to defend Joker, because he can’t. Joker is better in the post. He’s a better rebounder. He’s a slightly worse defender. He’s a much better passer, both in the post and at the elbow. He’s much more likely to back someone down, a la Shaq. If it’s just who is the better big, it’s pretty clearly Joker.

[GOBB]

Joker plays D on Embiid. Embiid doesn’t try to defend Joker, because he can’t. Joker is better in the post. He’s a better rebounder. He’s a slightly worse defender. He’s a much better passer, both in the post and at the elbow. He’s much more likely to back someone down, a la Shaq. If it’s just who is the better big, it’s pretty clearly Joker.

Slightly worse defender? That’s like me saying Embiid newfound passing ability makes him slightly a worse passer. Get out of here. Better rebounder based on what exactly? That’s a pick em if I ever saw one. Embiid imposes his will offensively where teams are actually concerned. You will never see a dominant big like this again. Not since Shaq. Enjoy it.

[iamgine]

We still need to see which version of Embiid show up in the playoff.

[GOBB]

We still need to see which version of Embiid show up in the playoff.

That’s fair.