Game 7 of the 2005 Nba finals between the Spurs and Pistons

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/live/3ig9xiu5VOU?si=0V6we1oR4HkmmdDD
I also enjoyed a low scoring game like the 2005 nba finals. Maybe players got better offensively in the 2020’s. 2005 had a low finals rating. But if you were a basketball fan you are going to enjoy this series.

[rmt]

What's unusual about this series is 2 home blowouts followed by 2 home blowout (on the other court), then one point overtime AWAY nailbiter, another AWAY win, 7th game. The past 2 winners - 2 great defensive teams - very closely matched. I'm glad that they eventually did away with the 2-3-2 format (thought it was unfair to the team with home court advantage).

Of course, I'm glad that Spurs won - what a big man, defensive battle (14 fouls on Ben, Rasheed and McDyess in that 7th game) and Manu breakout.

[FultzNationRISE]

Really funny you mention this series Louie, recently I watched the 4th quarter and overtime of game 5. I was going to make a thread on it here but didnt get to yet. I was honestly surprise how bad the offense look compared to today. Duncan and Ginobili turn it over a lot and missing free throws. Pistons mainly did iso shoots. The only player looking competent in that stretch was Robert Horry. He played for multiple NBA champions teams.

It was only one part of one game, it is true games sometimes get sloppy in the 4th quarter and overtime when players are tired. But the offensing looked primitive by today standards. Even for a team like the Spurs who were ahead of the standards in their own day. It was kinda just ugly basketball.

[warriorfan]

Really funny you mention this series Louie, recently I watched the 4th quarter and overtime of game 5. I was going to make a thread on it here but didnt get to yet. I was honestly surprise how bad the offense look compared to today. Duncan and Ginobili turn it over a lot and missing free throws. Pistons mainly did iso shoots. The only player looking competent in that stretch was Robert Horry. He played for multiple NBA champions teams.

It was only one part of one game, it is true games sometimes get sloppy in the 4th quarter and overtime when players are tired. But the offensing looked primitive by today standards. Even for a team like the Spurs who were ahead of the standards in their own day. It was kinda just ugly basketball.

That era is why the league changed the rules to try to open up more perimeter scoring. They thought they needed a more entertaining product and were trying to create another Jordan type figure to carry the league.

[ArbitraryWater]

What's unusual about this series is 2 home blowouts followed by 2 home blowout (on the other court), then one point overtime AWAY nailbiter, another AWAY win, 7th game. The past 2 winners - 2 great defensive teams - very closely matched. I'm glad that they eventually did away with the 2-3-2 format (thought it was unfair to the team with home court advantage).

Of course, I'm glad that Spurs won - what a big man, defensive battle (14 fouls on Ben, Rasheed and McDyess in that 7th game) and Manu breakout.

How so?

Teams almost never reeled off the 3 straight home games, cant even recall one time it happened outside of 2012.

In fact Id bet so far the winning % for home teams was higher in the 2-3-2 format than now.

[FKAri]

That era is why the league changed the rules to try to open up more perimeter scoring. They thought they needed a more entertaining product and were trying to create another Jordan type figure to carry the league.

The rules were already opened up by the 2005 final. Everything from no handcheck, 3 in the key, and the restricted area were already in play at this time. The reason they couldn't score was that defenses were better at implementing the newly added zone than offenses were at attacking it. Over time offenses made strides at attacking the zone at the NBA level. Also rosters were still being constructed with outdated thinking.

Interesting thing about the Spurs is they were the first team to make heavy use of the corner 3 in their offense(arguable because the Suns used it even more but came later on). A staple of all modern NBA offenses.

[1987_Lakers]

The rules were already opened up by the 2005 final. Everything from no handcheck, 3 in the key, and the restricted area were already in play at this time. The reason they couldn't score was that defenses were better at implementing the newly added zone than offenses were at attacking it. Over time offenses made strides at attacking the zone at the NBA level. Also rosters were still being constructed with outdated thinking.

Interesting thing about the Spurs is they were the first team to make heavy use of the corner 3 in their offense(arguable because the Suns used it even more but came later on). A staple of all modern NBA offenses.

Bingo. I posted a vid here a while back how offenses started to add/value more shooting/spacing to combat the advantages defenses had around this time. ISO offense was less effective with "illegal defense" being outlawed, but teams for the most part still ran lots of ISOs.

[warriorfan]

The rules were already opened up by the 2005 final. Everything from no handcheck, 3 in the key, and the restricted area were already in play at this time. The reason they couldn't score was that defenses were better at implementing the newly added zone than offenses were at attacking it. Over time offenses made strides at attacking the zone at the NBA level. Also rosters were still being constructed with outdated thinking.

Interesting thing about the Spurs is they were the first team to make heavy use of the corner 3 in their offense(arguable because the Suns used it even more but came later on). A staple of all modern NBA offenses.

Please do research on perimeter scoring outbreaks (Kobe and everyone else in the league) Starting in the 2005-2006 season. (very next season after these finals)


2006 is the most league inflated season since the 1960's.

Three 30+ ppg scorers, AND Arenas at 29.3. The last time 3+ players averaged 30+ points per game was 1981/1982.

3 30+ ppg scorers only happened 6 times in the entire history of the NBA. 1975, 1982, and 2006 are the only ones outside of the 1960's.

The most 24+ ppg players in one season ever (12). A total of 24 20+ ppg scorers.

22 players besides Kobe had a 40+ point game. Among them: Mike Bibby (4x), Jason Richardson (3x), Michael Redd (3x), Rashard Lewis (2x), Elton Brand, Pau Gasol, Richard Hamilton, Richard Jefferson, Shawn Marion, Mike Miller, Charlie Villanueva, Gerald Wallace.

Just about every perimeter star saw their career highs in PPG, FG%, or both.

Here are the 24 20+ ppg scorers:

Kobe Bryant: 35.4 ppg (career high, +7.6)
Allen Iverson: 33.0 ppg (career high, +2.7)
LeBron James: 31.4 ppg (career high, +4.2)
Gilbert Arenas: 29.3 ppg (career high, +3.8)
Dwyane Wade: 27.2 ppg (career 3rd best, +3.1)
Paul Pierce: 26.8 ppg (career high, +5.2)
Dirk Nowitzki: 26.6 ppg (career 2nd best, +0.5) *PF, perimeter tendencies
Carmelo Anthony: 26.5 ppg (career 5th best, +.5.7)
Michael Redd: 25.4 ppg (career 2nd best, +2.4)
Ray Allen: 25.1 ppg (career 2nd best, +1.2)
Elton Brand: 24.7 ppg (career high, +4.7)
Vince Carter: 24.2 ppg (career 3rd best, -0.3)
Jason Richardson: 23.2 ppg (career high, +1.5)
Chris Bosh: 22.5 ppg (career 3rd best, +5.7)
Shawn Marion: 21.8 ppg (career high, +2.4)
Kevin Garnett: 21.8 ppg (career 7th best, -0.4) *PF, perimeter tendencies
Mike Bibby: 21.1 ppg (career high, +1.5)
Antawn Jamison: 20.5 ppg (career 5th best, +0.9) *PF
Pau Gasol: 20.4 ppg (career 2nd best, +2.6) *PF, perimeter tendencies
Mike James: 20.3 ppg (career high, +8.5)
Chris Webber: 20.2 ppg (career 7th best, +0.7) *PF
Joe Johnson: 20.2 ppg (career 5th best, +3.1)
Richard Hamilton: 20.1 ppg (career high, +1.4)
Rashard Lewis: 20.1 ppg (career 3rd best, -0.4)

Every single perimeter all-star and perimeter 20 point scorer saw their production increase in 2006 (barring Vince Carter).

Billups is the only East perimeter all-star who didn't average 20+ ppg, but even he saw his production increase by +2.0, and had his career 2nd best. Nash and Parker ar the only West perimeter all-star who didn't average 20+ ppg, Nash saw his production increase by +3.3 having his career high, Parker saw his production increase by +2.3, having his career 3rd best.

No matter the stage of their career, irrelevant if they were pre-prime or post-prime, or in the midst of their peak. The seasons range from third season to 13th. Everybody here is between their 5th-10th season, w/ James/Wade/Anthony/Bosh in their 3rd, Garnett in his 11th, Webber in his 13th.

Only 5 players of the 24 didn't have top 3 career scoring years, of which 3 were either in their third season, or past their 10th.

[ArbitraryWater]

lmao, I made that post^

[ArbitraryWater]

That thread got 2 likes and basically no attention



Good to see warriorfan values my research and hunch

[warriorfan]

lmao, I made that post^

It’s a pretty common knowledge thing that there was a huge scoring explosion that year. It’s such an obvious thing I would have never gone through the time to compile it. But I guess there are people who don’t know so thank you for making it.

[1987_Lakers]

Please do research on perimeter scoring outbreaks (Kobe and everyone else in the league) Starting in the 2005-2006 season. (very next season after these finals)

The league average ppg from 2005 to 2006 was basically the same. lol

[ArbitraryWater]

It’s a pretty common knowledge thing that there was a huge scoring explosion that year. It’s such an obvious thing I would have never gone through the time to compile it. But I guess there are people who don’t know so thank you for making it.


True although the extent/depth of it is not quite known I think. People just know it was a big scoring year. When I realized how it added up on every single star, that was kinda shocking. Its rare something is that obvious, that revealing. I think if it was so accepted, Kobes 2006 would not be as celebrated, as heralded as it is.

[FKAri]

Please do research on perimeter scoring outbreaks (Kobe and everyone else in the league) Starting in the 2005-2006 season. (very next season after these finals)

I can't tell what part of my post you're refuting with this.

[warriorfan]

True although the extent/depth of it is not quite known I think. People just know it was a big scoring year. When I realized how it added up on every single star, that was kinda shocking. Its rare something is that obvious, that revealing. I think if it was so accepted, Kobes 2006 would not be as celebrated, as heralded as it is.

If people followed back then they would have. And yes you can definitely use this to throw shade on Kobe’s 06 season and also every perimeter player to ever play the game after. So that is the problem here if you want to really use this to stick it to Kobe it turns into a suicide mission because LeBron has played virtually his entire career in that post 06 era of officiating changes.

[warriorfan]

I can't tell what part of my post you're refuting with this.

You were saying officiating was the same during the game posted in the OP. And I told you that you are wrong. It didn’t really start opening up till the following season.

[1987_Lakers]

You were saying officiating was the same during the game posted in the OP. And I told you he you are wrong. It didn’t really start opening up till the following season.

League average PPG in 2005: 97.2 ppg
League average PPG in 2006: 97.0 ppg

Some groundbreaking offense the following year.

[ArbitraryWater]

If people followed back then they would have. And yes you can definitely use this to throw shade on Kobe’s 06 season and also every perimeter player to ever play the game after. So that is the problem here if you want to really use this to stick it to Kobe it turns into a suicide mission because LeBron has played virtually his entire career in that post 06 era of officiating changes.


Clearly there was some sort of adjustment process to the rule change which left the defense of 2006 in the biggest mess, as literally shown in those statistics and the particular outlier factor of the year.

[FKAri]

You were saying officiating was the same during the game posted in the OP. And I told you that you are wrong. It didn’t really start opening up till the following season.

But no explicit rule changes which is what I mentioned.

[warriorfan]

But no explicit rule changes which is what I mentioned.

The officials started calling it differently in the 05-06 season.

[rmt]

How so?

Teams almost never reeled off the 3 straight home games, cant even recall one time it happened outside of 2012.

In fact Id bet so far the winning % for home teams was higher in the 2-3-2 format than now.

Every team prefers to play at home than on the road. With the 2-3-2 format, the team with the better record (instead of the team with worse record) would be facing an elimination game TWICE (if each wins home games) - when pressure mounts the farther into the series you get. That seems to negate any advantage the team with better record has - pressure from elimination game vs home court advantage. IMO, the 2-2-1-1-1 is FAIRER (the team with better record is rewarded with playing the final game at home).

[rmt]

2006 Mavs series is when Pop first went "small ball" - 1 big and 4 perimeter up and down the court with less emphasis on defense.

[SouBeachTalents]

Every team prefers to play at home than on the road. With the 2-3-2 format, the team with the better record (instead of the team with worse record) would be facing an elimination game TWICE (if each wins home games) - when pressure mounts the farther into the series you get. That seems to negate any advantage the team with better record has - pressure from elimination game vs home court advantage. IMO, the 2-2-1-1-1 is FAIRER (the team with better record is rewarded with playing the final game at home).
I completely disagree, I feel like the 2-3-2 format favored the home team way too much. The road team had to win in 5 just to be able to clinch at home, and if they went down 3-2 they were forced to win b2b games on the road, which nobody was able to accomplish. In fact, on 4 separate occasions the road team couldn't even close out a 3-2 lead under that format.

[FKAri]

The officials started calling it differently in the 05-06 season.

I didn't disagree and you're right about that.



League average PPG in 2005: 97.2 ppg
League average PPG in 2006: 97.0 ppg

Some groundbreaking offense the following year.

The officiating changes primarily benefited stars who could actually get by their main defenders.

[bison]

Wow a vhs copy of the 2005 nba finals just arrived on Louie’s poverty stricken island.

Hey Louie wait til you see what Kobe does next season if you can get your vcr working you fat ugly short Filipino.

[bison]

https://www.youtube.com/live/3ig9xiu5VOU?si=0V6we1oR4HkmmdDD
I also enjoyed a low scoring game like the 2005 nba finals. Maybe players got better offensively in the 2020’s. 2005 had a low finals rating. But if you were a basketball fan you are going to enjoy this series.

You are so stupid the worst part is you don’t realize your own low IQ so you and your stupid countrymen continue to infest basketball talk like roaches and maggots. I really hate Filipinos like you. Dumb and stupid.

[ArbitraryWater]

Every team prefers to play at home than on the road. With the 2-3-2 format, the team with the better record (instead of the team with worse record) would be facing an elimination game TWICE (if each wins home games) - when pressure mounts the farther into the series you get. That seems to negate any advantage the team with better record has - pressure from elimination game vs home court advantage. IMO, the 2-2-1-1-1 is FAIRER (the team with better record is rewarded with playing the final game at home).


Again, winning 3 straight home games is a very tough task and quite unlikely.

If you feel it favored the away team so much, why did they almost never win 3 straight at home?

Unless you won 3 straight home games you were basically ****ed.