So... the Clippers... It's time we start talking about them

[Im Still Ballin]

They're good. Really good. Just a deep, well-constructed team that's pieces fit together. Roles are clearly defined. You've got the playmakers (Harden, Westbrook), the play-finishing bigs (Plumlee, Zubac, Theis), and the dynamic scorers and shooters (George, Kawhi, Powell, Mann, etc.)

They're legit contenders. And many apologies will potentially be made if they stay healthy. Which is a big if. I love to hate on the 2010s stars as much as the next person. Their antics irritate and annoy. But you have to give props when they're due.

[Mask the Embiid]

Loston down 35 points @ home :applause:.I’m stunned they didn’t quit at half again.

This is who you really are when you tear back all the make-up and media fluffing


https://i.postimg.cc/1XdNfrzX/IMG-1510.jpg


Rememba dat…..

[Gotterdammerung]

Right now they're up 35 over the Celtics.
:kobe:

[FultzNationRISE]

They're good. Really good. Just a deep, well-constructed team that's pieces fit together. Roles are clearly defined. You've got the playmakers (Harden, Westbrook), the play-finishing bigs (Plumlee, Zubac, Theis), and the dynamic scorers and shooters (George, Kawhi, Powell, Mann, etc.)

They're legit contenders. And many apologies will potentially be made if they stay healthy. Which is a big if. I love to hate on the 2010s stars as much as the next person. Their antics irritate and annoy. But you have to give props when they're due.


Anything is possible but Im never betting on WB and Harden when it matters.

[Gotterdammerung]

Loston down 35 points @ home :applause:.I’m stunned they didn’t quit at half again.

This is who you really are when you tear back all the make-up and media fluffing


https://i.postimg.cc/1XdNfrzX/IMG-1510.jpg


Rememba dat…..

The all time no-second-gear team
:durantunimpressed:

[Axe]

Three of the four veterans in there have already made the finals before. They are talented (especially kawhi) but lue wouldn't do good shit with this team if not for them. I mean it was clearly evidenced the first few games with the cavs in the 18/19 season. Wouldn't root against this team if not for him.

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't see how anyone can take the Clippers seriously. Kawhi hasn't made it through the 2nd round healthy in 4 years, while PG has hardly been any better in that regard. And how many times do we need to watch Harden completely implode in the playoffs?

After a dreadful start they have been playing very well, and they absolutely have the talent to contend for a title, but I'm not buying into them until I see Kawhi last 2 rounds in the playoffs and/or Harden consistently contribute for a playoff run.

If they manage to put it together and make a deep playoff run, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong, but to me they are fools gold until proven otherwise.

[ArbitraryWater]

Theyre damn good.


Nothing like the joke Suns really.

[Im Still Ballin]

You f-in around, Bison? My thread bro.

[BarberSchool]

PG & Kawhi experiment has another very narrow window to get a chip, after everyone already gave up on em.

But you know in a playoff series the odds of one of these things happening still is fairly likely:

1. Kawhi season ending injury

2. PG injury

3. Westbrick gets talked filthy sh!t too on purpose, to make him think he has to show up the shit talker and make it a one on one 6min stretch…in which he goes to the bucket way too hard out of control, turns it over twice, misses a low IQ floater, and draws a foul & goes 1for2 from the line.

4. Harden just straight up goes super cold and can’t get his baited fouls called.

[Proctor]

Clippers will win it all IF and only if Kawhi somehow defies the odds and remains healthy. Extra likely if Lue has a set of balls and benches Harden when he ****ing sucks which is much of the time.

[ImKobe]

Best team in the league when healthy. They're a better version of the 2021 Nets. They got 3 stars + a ton of shooting and depth around them and solid bigs who can slow down AD & Jokic. There's no real weakness to their roster.

[Phoenix]

Playing to their potential would make them one of the 3-4 most likely teams to chip. The problem is that relies on the health of Kawhi and PG13 to secure strong seeding and make it through a playoff run, and they haven't earned the benefit of doubt that THIS is the year the stars align.

[FKAri]

Best team in the league when healthy. They're a better version of the 2021 Nets. They got 3 stars + a ton of shooting and depth around them and solid bigs who can slow down AD & Jokic. There's no real weakness to their roster.

It's hard to compare the Clippers, Nuggets and Celtics because all 3 have been coasting the regular season. Celtics barely play their full lineup. Clippers love resting. And the Nuggets are prioritizing getting everyone on the same page on offense and defense vs force feeding a couple guys to win ball games.

[paksat]

just watched the highlights, lol did celts get shat on or what

paul george turning into steph with that 3 point shot this season, but we'll see how it goes come playoff times for PLAYOFF p

[Real Men Wear Green]

They were great yesterday but I still don't believe in Harden and wouldn't want to rely on Leonard and George health for a full playoff run.

[ArbitraryWater]

They were great yesterday but I still don't believe in Harden and wouldn't want to rely on Leonard and George health for a full playoff run.


You dont believe in Harden / George to take turns as 2nd and THIRD option?

[basketballcat]

Why are people acting like the Clippers stars are like Grant Hill? Grant Hill had structural issues with his ankle. He was "injury prone". Kawhi & PG just had bad luck. That's not "injury prone". They are as likely to get injured this season as anyone.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You dont believe in Harden / George to take turns as 2nd and THIRD option?
I don't believe in Harden as a consistent playoff performer and I'm not sure Leonard and George have ever been healthy for a postseason run together. I don't think that's hard to understand. Leonard is elite when he's healthy but we always are him getting hurt so that's not a normal asterisk.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why are people acting like the Clippers stars are like Grant Hill? Grant Hill had structural issues with his ankle. He was "injury prone". Kawhi & PG just had bad luck. That's not "injury prone". They are as likely to get injured this season as anyone.
Yeah bro, it's crazy to act like Kawhi is injury prone.

[Xiao Yao You]

Why are people acting like the Clippers stars are like Grant Hill? Grant Hill had structural issues with his ankle. He was "injury prone". Kawhi & PG just had bad luck. That's not "injury prone". They are as likely to get injured this season as anyone.

:roll:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why are people acting like the Clippers stars are like Grant Hill? Grant Hill had structural issues with his ankle. He was "injury prone". Kawhi & PG just had bad luck. That's not "injury prone". They are as likely to get injured this season as anyone.

Of the 4 possible postseason runs, how many have they been healthy for the full run together? Leonard hasn't played 70 games since 2017. He is a five time allstar. If he had normal health that would be something like 9.

[tpols]

They should load manage kawhi and PG extra hard to rest for the playoffs. Harden and Westbrook can carry in the regular season.

[fsvr54]

Of the 4 possible postseason runs, how many have they been healthy for the full run together? Leonard hasn't played 70 games since 2017. He is a five time allstar. If he had normal health that would be something like 9.

Joe Ingles banging your knee is bad luck

[basketballcat]

They should load manage kawhi and PG extra hard to rest for the playoffs. Harden and Westbrook can carry in the regular season.

Nah. Enough of that load management. Tried that many times. Didn't work. Building team chemistry is more important.

[Xiao Yao You]

Joe Ingles banging your knee is bad luck

Ingles kept playing.

[NBAGOAT]

people dont get harden doesnt need to contribute like in previous years, he's the 3rd option. He just needs to setup kawhi and george consistently. Powell can put up 20 in a playoff game too, zubac has been a monster because of harden. 15/8 would be a fine statline for him in the playoffs. he was 2/11 yesterday but passed well enough. He just cant have games where he does absolutely nothing and he's had them in the past but the clippers are not expecting him to score 30 in the playoffs more than a couple times.

The scoring is on kawhi/george. Ofc kawhi has to be healthy to win and that's a question but even with george's inconsistency I'm fine with him as a no2 in the playoffs. Who's going be more consistent on offense besides like booker or kyrie and those teams dont have the depth or defense the clippers do.

[basketballcat]

people dont get harden doesnt need to contribute like in previous years, he's the 3rd option. He just needs to setup kawhi and george consistently. Powell can put up 20 in a playoff game too, zubac has been a monster because of harden. 15/8 would be a fine statline for him in the playoffs. he was 2/11 yesterday but passed well enough. He just cant have games where he does absolutely nothing and he's had them in the past but the clippers are not expecting him to score 30 in the playoffs more than a couple times.

The scoring is on kawhi/george. Ofc kawhi has to be healthy to win and that's a question but even with george's inconsistency I'm fine with him as a no2 in the playoffs. Who's going be more consistent on offense besides like booker or kyrie and those teams dont have the depth or defense the clippers do.

Clippers have a lot of offensive fire-power and depth. They have 2 bench players, Westbrook and Powell, who are good enough to be starter in most other teams.

Their main weakness is bigs. It has improved significantly from a couple of years ago. Is Zubac, Plumlee, & Theis enough in a series against Jokic? Giannis? Porzingis? We'll see.

I would love for the Clippers to make one more move before the trade deadline. A solid front court upgrade would be fantastic.

[NBAGOAT]

Clippers have a lot of offensive fire-power and depth. They have 2 bench players, Westbrook and Powell, who are good enough to be starter in most other teams.

Their main weakness is bigs. It has improved significantly from a couple of years ago. Is Zubac, Plumlee, & Theis enough in a series against Jokic? Giannis? Porzingis? We'll see.

I would love for the Clippers to make one more move before the trade deadline. A solid front court upgrade would be fantastic.

zubac definitely looks good enough as a starter, the clips front office dont think they need to upgrade at center. If there's a trade more likely will be a defensive guard who's better offensively than mann or a better wing than pj tucker. Keep in mind your options are limited when you're already paying 3 max guys and have no picks and zubac is one of the best contracts in the league at 10mil. Plumlee/Theis is more than enough for backup C you cant be too picky at that position. No one is enough for jokic and giannis will be kawhi's job most likely. Porzingis is hard for any center to deal with but maybe clippers go small vs boston

[Xiao Yao You]

zubac definitely looks good enough as a starter, the clips front office dont think they need to upgrade at center. If there's a trade more likely will be a defensive guard who's better offensively than mann or a better wing than pj tucker. Keep in mind your options are limited when you're already paying 3 max guys and have no picks and zubac is one of the best contracts in the league at 10mil. Plumlee/Theis is more than enough for backup C you cant be too picky at that position. No one is enough for jokic and giannis will be kawhi's job most likely. Porzingis is hard for any center to deal with but maybe clippers go small vs boston

rumors I've seen says they want another big. Not satisfied with Plumlee and Theis apparently

[Full Court]

Best team in the league when healthy. They're a better version of the 2021 Nets. They got 3 stars + a ton of shooting and depth around them and solid bigs who can slow down AD & Jokic. There's no real weakness to their roster.

Funny how Westbrook is flourishing when he's not being scapegoated for LeDeadWeoight's underachievement.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Clippers have a lot of offensive fire-power and depth. They have 2 bench players, Westbrook and Powell, who are good enough to be starter in most other teams.

What likely playoff team would start Westbrook?

[basketballcat]

What likely playoff team would start Westbrook?

Westbrook is at 4.7 apg on 23 min. Scaling that to his minutes last year, at 30.2 min, that's 6.2 apg. Take into consideration that he plays some minutes with Harden, so it's more like 7apg. That would be similar to his numbers last year.

7 apg is good enough to be #12 in the NBA.

As for your question, Westbrook as the main PG could be as good as Mike Conley of the #2 seed in the West.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Westbrook is at 4.7 apg on 23 min. Scaling that to his minutes last year, at 30.2 min, that's 6.2 apg. Take into consideration that he plays some minutes with Harden, so it's more like 7apg. That would be similar to his numbers last year.

7 apg is good enough to be #12 in the NBA.

As for your question, Westbrook as the main PG could be as good as Mike Conley of the #2 seed in the West.

Conley is a solid defender that his 43% of hits threes. Minnie keeps the ball in the hands of Anthony Edwards to create offense. If they started Westbrook their opponents would have a very obvious option for someone to leave open while they double-teamed the superstar. They would then be starting two players without range and it would make spacing bad. Minnie would not start him.

There's nothing special about the ability in theory to average 6 assists. Any NBA point guard could do it with enough minutes and the ball in his hands. In fact if the Clippers wanted to feature Westbrook he likely gets even more than 6. He isn't a starter any longer because he's lost part of the explosiveness that had made him so dangerous and when you take that away he's an average guard with a bad jumper. He still has a place in the league but it's not as a starter. Recall that he already lost the starting job with the Lakers. Neither team in LA views him as a starter and the rest of the league generally shares that opinion.

[SATAN]

Westbrook is at 4.7 apg on 23 min. Scaling that to his minutes last year, at 30.2 min, that's 6.2 apg. Take into consideration that he plays some minutes with Harden, so it's more like 7apg. That would be similar to his numbers last year.

7 apg is good enough to be #12 in the NBA.

As for your question, Westbrook as the main PG could be as good as Mike Conley of the #2 seed in the West.

What the **** kind of logic is this? :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Funny how Westbrook is flourishing when he's not being scapegoated for LeDeadWeoight's underachievement.

He just needed to have shooters and unselfish players around him. As great as AD and Bran are, they're both ballstoppers and don't space the floor that much. Clippers are just a much better fit for him.

Clippers have the best 3PT% in the league. Lakers have struggled to shoot the 3 before Russ and are still bad at it, although their % is at the league average, they're dead last in 3PA.

[Xiao Yao You]

As for your question, Westbrook as the main PG could be as good as Mike Conley of the #2 seed in the West.

:roll:

Guess you never saw Rubio and Favors spotting up in the corners while Gobert rolled to the rim?

[basketballcat]

Conley is a solid defender that his 43% of hits threes. Minnie keeps the ball in the hands of Anthony Edwards to create offense. If they started Westbrook their opponents would have a very obvious option for someone to leave open while they double-teamed the superstar. They would then be starting two players without range and it would make spacing bad. Minnie would not start him.

There's nothing special about the ability in theory to average 6 assists. Any NBA point guard could do it with enough minutes and the ball in his hands. In fact if the Clippers wanted to feature Westbrook he likely gets even more than 6. He isn't a starter any longer because he's lost part of the explosiveness that had made him so dangerous and when you take that away he's an average guard with a bad jumper. He still has a place in the league but it's not as a starter. Recall that he already lost the starting job with the Lakers. Neither team in LA views him as a starter and the rest of the league generally shares that opinion.

Your "solid defender" averages less steals per game on more minutes, compared to Westbrook. Conley's FG% is inferior to Westbrook's as well. Sure, Westbrook isn't a great 3point shooter. So was Kidd on the Nets. He was still extremely effective. Oh and btw, are we just going to pretend rebounds don't exist? Westbrook as the main PG brings to the table as much as most starting PGs. Finally, only 11 players average 7+ apg. It's not a trivial stat line. Take away two bigs and LeBron, that's only 8. Where are the other 22+ starting PGs?

[basketballcat]

What the **** kind of logic is this? :oldlol:

The kind that goes over your head.

[basketballcat]

:roll:

Guess you never saw Rubio and Favors spotting up in the corners while Gobert rolled to the rim?

Guess you think that's unique?

[Im Still Ballin]

Harden, George, and Kawhi fit so well together. All three are great shooters; Harden's a natural playmaker; George and Kawhi prefer to play off-ball, attacking off the catch.

[basketballcat]

Literally the last game between Clippers and Wolves

Conley: 6pts, 5 assists, 2 for 6 on 3s, 1 steal
Westbrook: 12pts, 13 assists, 2 for 2 on 3s, 2 steals

You're telling me Westbrook is a tier below the average starting PG? Lol.

[Xiao Yao You]

Your "solid defender" averages less steals per game on more minutes, compared to Westbrook. Conley's FG% is inferior to Westbrook's as well. Sure, Westbrook isn't a great 3point shooter. So was Kidd on the Nets. He was still extremely effective. Oh and btw, are we just going to pretend rebounds don't exist? Westbrook as the main PG brings to the table as much as most starting PGs. Finally, only 11 players average 7+ apg. It's not a trivial stat line. Take away two bigs and LeBron, that's only 8. Where are the other 22+ starting PGs?

steals don't tell you anything about how well someone defends. It tells you they go for steals. Conley starts at one of the most important defensive positions in the league today for the best defensive team. He takes 8 shots a game 5 of them are 3's. He shoots 44% from 3 for a true shooting % of 62%. Westbrook's is 52% close to his career number. Kidd's career TS% was 51%. With the Nets between 43% and 53%. Effective no. Conley plays with 3 starting bigs and another off the bench. He doesn't need to rebound

[Xiao Yao You]

Guess you think that's unique?

no it was stupid

[Xiao Yao You]

Literally the last game between Clippers and Wolves

Conley: 6pts, 5 assists, 2 for 6 on 3s, 1 steal
Westbrook: 12pts, 13 assists, 2 for 2 on 3s, 2 steals

You're telling me Westbrook is a tier below the average starting PG? Lol.

Westbrook makes lots of sense off the bench. He makes none starting on a team that wants to win

[Real Men Wear Green]

Your "solid defender" averages less steals per game on more minutes, compared to Westbrook. Conley's FG% is inferior to Westbrook's as well. Sure, Westbrook isn't a great 3point shooter. So was Kidd on the Nets. He was still extremely effective. Oh and btw, are we just going to pretend rebounds don't exist? Westbrook as the main PG brings to the table as much as most starting PGs. Finally, only 11 players average 7+ apg. It's not a trivial stat line. Take away two bigs and LeBron, that's only 8. Where are the other 22+ starting PGs?

Steals don't measure a guy's ability to stay in front of his man. It's a nice play to make but not a true measure of a defender at all. Conley is taking threes so his overall fg% isn't the right way to evaluate his shooting for that team. He's a floor spacer. Westbrook is not. Lastly your point about Kidd is irrelevant. If anyone on the Clippers is to be compared to Kidd it's Harden because he's creating offense and running the team. Westbrook no longer has that role because his athleticism is declined and no one would want to make him a cornerstone of their offense at this stage of his career.

[basketballcat]

Steals don't measure a guy's ability to stay in front of his man. It's a nice play to make but not a true measure of a defender at all. Conley is taking threes so his overall fg% isn't the right way to evaluate his shooting for that team. He's a floor spacer. Westbrook is not. Lastly your point about Kidd is irrelevant. If anyone on the Clippers is to be compared to Kidd it's Harden because he's creating offense and running the team. Westbrook no longer has that role because his athleticism is declined and no one would want to make him a cornerstone of their offense at this stage of his career.

Except Westbrook's box defensive +/- is better than Conley's.

It's simple.
Did I say Westbrook is better than Conley? No.
My point is that Conley is not MUCH better than Westbrook.
Not every single playoff bound starting PG is MUCH better than Westbrook..

My original statement was: Westbrook as the main PG can be as good as most starting PGs. There is a lot of evidence that I presented here that supports that. But if you want to go with narratives and eye tests, have at it.

I'll let you have the last word, if you feel the itch. Ciao.

[basketballcat]

steals don't tell you anything about how well someone defends. It tells you they go for steals. Conley starts at one of the most important defensive positions in the league today for the best defensive team. He takes 8 shots a game 5 of them are 3's. He shoots 44% from 3 for a true shooting % of 62%. Westbrook's is 52% close to his career number. Kidd's career TS% was 51%. With the Nets between 43% and 53%. Effective no. Conley plays with 3 starting bigs and another off the bench. He doesn't need to rebound

What does defensive box +/- tell you?

[basketballcat]

Westbrook makes lots of sense off the bench. He makes none starting on a team that wants to win

By team that wants to win, do you mean the 9th seed Lakers?

[Jasper]

2nd round exit- harden (choke city with PG)

[Real Men Wear Green]

Except Westbrook's box defensive +/- is better than Conley's.

It's simple.
Did I say Westbrook is better than Conley? No.
My point is that Conley is not MUCH better than Westbrook.
Not every single playoff bound starting PG is MUCH better than Westbrook..

My original statement was: Westbrook as the main PG can be as good as most starting PGs. There is a lot of evidence that I presented here that supports that. But if you want to go with narratives and eye tests, have at it.

I'll let you have the last word, if you feel the itch. Ciao.

Ok then, last word: if Westbrook isn't better and it isn't a better fit (roleplayer that can't shoot) why would he start?

[Xiao Yao You]

By team that wants to win, do you mean the 9th seed Lakers?

I mean any team

[basketballcat]

I mean any team
What I meant was that Westbrook got flak for his Lakers stint. That team wasn't good to begin with. Erratic, certainly.

Westbrook on the season right before the Lakers led the league in assists.

[Xiao Yao You]

What I meant was that Westbrook got flak for his Lakers stint. That team wasn't good to begin with. Erratic, certainly.

Westbrook on the season right before the Lakers led the league in assists.

He was coming off the bench in LA too. He's not a starter

[Charlie Sheen]

rumors I've seen says they want another big. Not satisfied with Plumlee and Theis apparently

I think it would be more of an insurance move. They would be in a tight spot if one of those 2 went down without any clarity on when Zu is returning.