Jordan & Lebron won in their 7th season. Shaq, Jokic, Giannis 8th.

[iamgine]

Without an all time great already in your team, it seems around 7 seasons are the amount of time needed to start winning. Curry who won in his 6th season. There are exceptions like Hakeem who won in his 10th season.


This is Tatum's 7th season and Embiid's 8th season. SGA and Brunson are in their 6th season.

[Full Court]

Jordan, Jokic, Curry, and Giannis didn't have to jump teams to win. Those rings are worth far more than Shaq's or Lebron's.

[1987_Lakers]

Jordan, Jokic, Curry, and Giannis didn't have to jump teams to win. Those rings are worth far more than Shaq's or Lebron's.

How about Wilt's rings? He jumped teams to get rings, yet you have him top 3 all time.

[SATAN]

How about Wilt's rings? He jumped teams to get rings, yet you have him top 3 all time.

What a ****ing dumbass :roll:

[Axe]

How about Wilt's rings? He jumped teams to get rings, yet you have him top 3 all time.
:oldlol:

[dankok8]

Lebron won in 2012 which was his 9th season. The OP seems factually incorrect.

But yes most players in history peak around 28 years of age. Given or take 1-2 years.

[Overdrive]

How about Wilt's rings? He jumped teams to get rings, yet you have him top 3 all time.

He will now tell you about the records. In the fastest paced league yet, while he discredits everything done today for pace, spacing and lack of defense.

[Lebron23]

Lebron won in 2012 which was his 9th season. The OP seems factually incorrect.

But yes most players in history peak around 28 years of age. Given or take 1-2 years. lebron was 28 when he won his first finals mvp.

[Full Court]

How about Wilt's rings? He jumped teams to get rings, yet you have him top 3 all time.

Quality of rings isn't the sole criterion in how you rank someone. I feel like I've explained this to you multiple times. Serious question: have you ever taken an IQ test?

[Airupthere]

Lebron won in 2012 which was his 9th season. The OP seems factually incorrect.

But yes most players in history peak around 28 years of age. Given or take 1-2 years.

In this case, brantards can selectively say his teen years dont count. But they do count for longevity stats.

[Full Court]

lebron was 28 when he won his first finals mvp.

LeShrivel was 37 when he led a super team to the lottery.

[3ba11]

Jokic, Giannis and Jordan built lottery rosters into champion and would've won in Year 1 if they got to team-up with the top 1st options and opposing franchise players in their conference.

Anyone could win if they got to dilute the competition and consolidate the conference's talent on 1 team.. Imagine Joker teaming up with Curry and KAT - he would obviously win in Year 1 with multiple all-star teammates instead of building a lottery roster into champion with only 1 other star

[Kblaze8855]

Jordan, Jokic, Curry, and Giannis didn't have to jump teams to win. Those rings are worth far more than Shaq's or Lebron's.

How does Shaq leaving a better team(the Magic won 60 games with him missing half the season) make it easier to win? It doesn’t matter what color your jersey is. Winning is about how well your team can play basketball. The Lakers did not play basketball better than his magic did for years.

[SouBeachTalents]

How does Shaq leaving a better team(the Magic won 60 games with him missing half the season) make it easier to win? It doesn’t matter what color your jersey is. Winning is about how well your team can play basketball. The Lakers did not play basketball better than his magic did for years.
Having KD join your 73 win team is also much less competitive than simply switching teams.

[3ba11]

Having KD join your 73 win team is also much less competitive than simply switching teams.


Teaming up is literally to "win right away" rather than build a champion over 7 years like Jokic, Giannis, Curry, and MJ did.

Isn't building a lottery roster into champion over 7 years harder than forming a Year 1 favorite via "decision"?

Forming a Year 1 league favorite is by definition the quickest and easiest path (Lebron), while taking 7 years to develop lottery roster into champion is the harder way obviously.. (11' Heat and 15' Cavs were preseason favorites, aka Year 1 favorite...and 20' Lakers)

Any top 20 all-time candidate will have an organic juggernaut and league favorite by Year 7 just like 2023 Jokic, 2010 Lebron, 2021 Giannis or 1991 Jordan.. The difference is that Lebron gave up after Year 7 and teamed up with opponents, so he never completed the organic learning curve of chemistry and brand of ball - he never really learned how to WIN (organic) and opted for a talent-based approach (team-hopping to win right away)..

Of cours, the problem was that Lebron gave up too soon because there was a 1-star organic chip on the table in 2011 that Dirk grabbed - the 11' Cavs would've had the chemistry and defense to beat those Mavs.

[FKAri]

Isn't building a lottery roster into champion over 7 years harder than forming a Year 1 favorite via "decision"?
No.

[3ba11]

No.


It's weird because 7th-year Lebron had an organic juggernaut and league favorite just like Jokic, Giannis, Curry and MJ..

But he gave up and they didn't - they finished climbing the organic learning curve of chemistry and brand of ball, while he didn't and teamed up with opponents instead.. So he didn't really learn how to win (organic), and therefore always needs more help/talent.. but carry on

Building an organic champion requires adjusting your game and playing with lower time of possession like the aforementioned players (Curry, Jokic, MJ, Giannis)

[1987_Lakers]

It's weird because 7th-year Lebron had an organic juggernaut and league favorite just like Jokic, Giannis, Curry and MJ..

But he gave up and they didn't - they finished climbing the organic learning curve of chemistry and brand of ball, while he didn't and teamed up with opponents instead.. So he didn't really learn how to win (organic), and therefore always needs more help/talent.. but carry on

They didn't trade for Amare because they thought JJ Hickson was gonna be the next big thing. LeBron made the right choice.

[3ba11]

They didn't trade for Amare because they thought JJ Hickson was gonna be the next big thing. LeBron made the right choice.


Antawn Jamison was chosen over Amare

[1987_Lakers]

Antawn Jamison was chosen over Amare - he was averaging 22/9, which became 15/8 alongside Lebron-ball but this still bumped all-star Mo down to 3rd option - I remember it well.. So they had plenty of offense and a reputed defense.. They were comparable to the first three-peat Bulls, who never had a 3rd scorer and ranked below those Cavs defensively.

That should tell you all you need to know about the Cavs organization at the time.

[3ba11]

That should tell you all you need to know about the Cavs organization at the time.


They were comparable to the first three-peat Bulls, who never had a 3rd scorer and ranked below those Cavs defensively... Regardless, guys like Curry, Jokic, Giannis and MJ won with organic casts and non-franchise players like Klay, Murray, Middleton and Pippen, so Lebron should've been able to win with Mo and Jamison plus a veteran-laden cast just like they did.. He shouldn't need franchise players like Wade, AD, Kyrie, Love or Bosh

[1987_Lakers]

he was averaging 22/9, which became 15/8 alongside Lebron-ball but this still bumped all-star Mo down to 3rd option - I remember it well.. So they had plenty of offense and a reputed defense.. They were comparable to the first three-peat Bulls, who never had a 3rd scorer and ranked below those Cavs defensively... Regardless, guys like Curry, Jokic, Giannis and MJ won with guys like Klay, Murray, Middleton and Pippen, so Lebron should've been able to win with Mo and Jamison plus a veteran-laden cast.. He should need franchise players like Wade, AD, Kyrie, Love or Bosh

Did you just delete your previous post and copy and pasted it onto this post? :oldlol:

Meanwhile, Krause was getting MJ the GOAT coach and Pippen.

[3ba11]

Did you just delete your previous post and copy and pasted it onto this post? :oldlol:

Meanwhile, Krause was getting MJ the GOAT coach and Pippen.


Phil was a 1st-time nobody coach in 1991, so MJ won with a 1st-time nobody coach - Phil had to win 72 to get COY with MJ

History shows that MJ was the goat candidate in 1990, while Phil was a 1st-time nobody coach, so MJ made Phil, not the other way around.

And it's entirely suboptimal for a wing star to be tasked with a no-dribble offense and a 1st time nobody coach...

Remember that Lebron's 1st playoff teams were Year 3 teams (2006) with a great coach (mike brown), while Jordan's first playoff teams were Year 1 with no coach in 1985.. it's night and day.. when MJ had 3 healthy years to develop his team (88'), he won 50 and made 2nd round just like 06' Lebron (who had all-star teammates and better roster, aika 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition)

[FKAri]

It's weird because 7th-year Lebron had an organic juggernaut and league favorite just like Jokic, Giannis, Curry and MJ..

But he gave up and they didn't - they finished climbing the organic learning curve of chemistry and brand of ball, while he didn't and teamed up with opponents instead.. So he didn't really learn how to win (organic), and therefore always needs more help/talent.. but carry on

Not everyone's into that organic beta bullshit bro. Bron's Alpha for going to the greatest non-shooting, shooting guard of all-time and snatching the ball out of his hands and telling him to stand in the ****ing corner and wait for the pass.

Look. I get it. You want to watch a bunch of guys share the basketball, have some fun, have a heart to heart after the game about what lessons they've learned and the friends they made along the way, all while their feminist coach tells em it's OK to succ a dicc every now and then. I on the other hand just want to watch an Arnold movie where he's got a machine gun for a dicc. We're all different and that's OK. If anything we need more people like you on this planet. We have a goddamn population crisis.

[3ba11]

Not everyone's into that organic beta bullshit bro. Bron's Alpha for going to the greatest non-shooting, shooting guard of all-time and snatching the ball out of his hands and telling him to stand in the ****ing corner and wait for the pass.

Look. I get it. You want to watch a bunch of guys share the basketball, have some fun, have a heart to heart after the game about what lessons they've learned and the friends they made along the way, all while their feminist coach tells em it's OK to succ a dicc every now and then. I on the other hand just want to watch an Arnold movie where he's got a machine gun for a dicc. We're all different and that's OK. If anything we need more people like you on this planet. We have a goddamn population crisis.


So Arnold's style of play is to use his teammates as bailout options - a "passer" that passes to inferior beings with the game on the line?

lol.. that's arnie.. not Arnold

Arnold teams up with his best rivals and opponents?

lol cut the crap

[3ba11]

iamgine was trolling with this thread because he knows that Curry, Jokic, Giannis and MJ took 7 years to build lottery rosters into champion, which is obviously harder than forming a Year 1 favorite (the easiest path possible) like the 2011 Heat, 2015 Cavs, or 2020 Lakers (all preseason favorites).. And the path was even easier because the Year 1 favorite was formed by diluting the competition (teaming up with opponents).

[FKAri]

So Arnold's style of play is to use his teammates as bailout options - a "passer" that passes to inferior beings with the game on the line?

lol.. that's arnie.. not Arnold

Arnold teams up with his best rivals and opponents?

lol cut the crap

The teammates are just comic relief while Bron is busy impregnating the defense. And what you call teaming up I call subjugating the opposition. He doesn't fight them. He goes to their house, takes their ball, their women and their glory.

[3ba11]

The teammates are just comic relief while Bron is busy impregnating the defense. And what you call teaming up I call subjugating the opposition. He doesn't fight them. He goes to their house, defrauds their ball, their women and their glory.


fixed

MJ is the real Arnold that wins titles while leading the league in usage or scoring (unprecedented), and clutch - a real superman with that was never truly defeated.

whereas your guy has losses... really, really bad ones on his record.. he isn't invincible with bad losses and weaknesses to his game

[FKAri]

fixed

MJ is the real Arnold that wins titles while leading the league in usage or scoring (unprecedented), and clutch - a real superman with that was never truly defeated.

whereas your guy has losses... really, really bad ones on his record.. he isn't invincible with bad losses and weaknesses to his game

MJ wrote a letter to the principal to not only snitch but further request if the rules can be changed for him. Hoe ass snitch. We already know what Zeke and Magic have said but his own teammate, Horace Grant publicly called him a snitch! That's your hero? Nonsense.

LeGod is just so GOAT that efficiency is irrelevant. This allows him to focus more on style points and fan service while still achieving dominance. The phallically challenged Michael Jordan on the other hand-who allegedly lost a bet in '88 where he had to shave his head every time he took dicc-needed all the focus, determination and efficiency he could muster to collect cheap wins in the pathetic 90s.

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-19-2023/JlbRm0.gif



MJ wrote a letter to the principal to not only snitch but further request if the rules can be changed for him. Hoe ass snitch. We already know what Zeke and Magic have said but his own teammate, Horace Grant publicly called him a snitch! That's your hero? Nonsense.

LeGod is just so GOAT that efficiency is irrelevant. This allows him to focus more on style points and fan service while still achieving dominance. The phallically challenged Michael Jordan on the other hand-who allegedly lost a bet in '88 where he had to shave his head every time he took dicc-needed all the focus, determination and efficiency he could muster to collect cheap wins in the pathetic 90s.


Lebron can't palm the ball, so his additional height actually has smaller bone structure, whereas Jordan had "big man hands" like Webber, Bird, Dr. J or Kawhi

And Lebron is a driver, which has great efficiency but driving is a ball-dominant approach where the highest scorer on the team isn't an assist target, thereby lowering the assist capacity of the team.

So Lebron is like a dumb Goliath that gets demolished by a wily spiderman or batman, or he's like a captain of the Titanic that hones in on 1 thing as the ship heads towards an ice wall..

[FKAri]

I have a better comparison:
Lebron is like a Monster Truck on rocket boosters punching through snow dunes as it ascends the peaks of The Himalayas at 500miles an hour at an 89 degree angle.

Meanwhile, MJ is carefully climbing the mountain with a full harness while being berated by a Sherpa to hurry the phucc up and grow a pair.

[Charlie Sheen]

How does Shaq leaving a better team(the Magic won 60 games with him missing half the season) make it easier to win? It doesn’t matter what color your jersey is. Winning is about how well your team can play basketball. The Lakers did not play basketball better than his magic did for years.

Your timeline is off. By the time Fox got there in Shaqs second Laker season, that roster was at least good as anything he had in Orlando and they played just as well.

He played with Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson all 4 of his Magic years... Penny for 3 of the 4 seasons. Continuity counts for a lot but they would have had to retool because 3d was on his way out of the league. I do not see how any of it makes up the difference to get him past Utah or Chicago either of those seasons.

[3ba11]

I have a better comparison:
Lebron is like a Monster Truck on rocket boosters punching through snow dunes as it ascends the peaks of The Himalayas at 500miles an hour at an 89 degree angle.

Meanwhile, MJ is carefully climbing the mountain with a full harness while being berated by a Sherpa to hurry the phucc up and grow a pair.


you can't be a monster with baby hands and no one is scared of someone they can just team up with and carry

mj came back and 3-peated again with a completely different cast and a sidekick that had the worst efficiency anyone ever had in the playoffs

so lebron has no pair for teaming up with opponents - anyone can do that - and then he still mostly had record loss and sweep - a complete fraud that i'm amazed people don't see thru because in plain view he teamed up and then mostly lost

[FKAri]

you can't be a monster with baby hands and no one is scared of someone they can just team up with and carry

You can't be a monster with a shrimp dicc and a feminine frame Like Mary Jane. Get real. And I wouldn't call it teaming up when LeKhan is coming into YOUR house to take the ball, the team and the riches. When Bron knocks at your door in the dead of night with his zip open you have no choice but to concede. MJ would be rushing to the phone to dial up Stern for some help. But there's no one to turn to when LeDon is the one who's knocks. He's the guy who Stern called when he needed help.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

If Lebron came in the league in 2003 and didn't win until 2012, that means he won his first at the end of his 9th season.
Mike came in 1984 and won in 1991. That would make it his 7th season.

[kawhileonard2]

LeShrivel was 37 when he led a super team to the lottery.

This

[3ba11]

when LeKhan is coming into YOUR house to take the ball, the team and the riches.





Nuggets, Warriors, Spurs, Magic and Mavs all made PRIME lebron their b**** and Lebron has a lottery record against all of them

so there's never been a bigger ragdoll than Lebron with more bad losses on his resume than any top 10 candidate, aka sweeps, upset losses or record losses in his damn prime

[1987_Lakers]

Quality of rings isn't the sole criterion in how you rank someone. I feel like I've explained this to you multiple times. Serious question: have you ever taken an IQ test?

Yes, you value FMVP the most, remind me who has more between Wilt & LeBron?

[SouBeachTalents]

Yes, you value FMVP the most, remind me who has more between Wilt & LeBron?
But LeBron is a bigger choker than Wilt.

[Axe]

Already in his 10th season more or less and this guy still hasn't won a ring yet. :ohwell:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4yCdK5LZ2XWe1pZvizTmWO_U3fylMB p5Xkw&usqp=CAU