Rasheed QUESTIONS Michael Jordan's defense!

[SATAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4wN6G91GoE

[Baller234]

Lmao, okay.

Sorry, not gonna let this hot take get any more steam. All due respect to Sheed but he is probably high. Dude sounds like a total f'n idiot.

Jordan was an absolute pest on defense. Led the league in steals multiple times. Always gave 100% on the defensive end, always stayed with his man, always making a play on the ball. There are times he just would totally lock guys up and make them look silly and inadequate.

Awful, AWFUL take from Rasheed.

0 points.

[SATAN]

Sorry if you are replying to me but I have you blocked and it's gonna stay that way, alt. :pimp:

[1987_Lakers]

It's funny you bring up Rasheed, I recently saw a vid of him from that same podcast I believe of him saying Maurice Lucas was a better player than Bill Walton during their '77 title run, dude is obviously clueless.

[SATAN]

He said MJ isn't the GOAT :eek:

[BarberSchool]

Sheed has said a lot of very honest, unfiltered things in his life.

But this is the only one which LOST him ALOT of CREDIBILITY. With EVERYBODY.

Whatever he says in the future will always be brought into doubt now,
Just cause he said this insanely stupid sh!t

[BarberSchool]

Lmao, okay.

Sorry, not gonna let this hot take get any more steam. All due respect to Sheed but he is probably high. Dude sounds like a total f'n idiot.

Jordan was an absolute pest on defense. Led the league in steals multiple times. Always gave 100% on the defensive end, always stayed with his man, always making a play on the ball. There are times he just would totally lock guys up and make them look silly and inadequate.

Awful, AWFUL take from Rasheed.

0 points.

Negative eleventy gorillion points.
Son went from a filterless stoned 5%er.
To a clown flat earther drinking hydrogen peroxide in just one swift comment.

[kawhileonard2]

Needs money.

[iamgine]

There has been a lot of analysis on Jordan's defense. He's not all time level defender but definitely all-defense worthy for his position.

[Kblaze8855]

It's funny you bring up Rasheed, I recently saw a vid of him from that same podcast I believe of him saying Maurice Lucas was a better player than Bill Walton during their '77 title run, dude is obviously clueless.


I have heard that from a couple people. One of them being Bill Walton himself who is just that way. Lucas was so influential in his life he named his son after him. That’s where Luke gets his name. If you asked Bill, he would tell you, Lucas was the heart of the team and was the reason he was able to do what he did. He took the most physical matchups and drew the attention and protected everybody. And on top of it, he actually led that team in scoring in the playoffs. He wasn’t better than Walton but if it happened the same way today, he would fill the role of the great teammate the haters would say was really the key.

I do wonder if he’s one reason Bill had his only stretch of health those couple years. He couldn’t stay healthy till Lucas got there. He was on the team 2-3 years…Lucas arrived and they won the title immediately and he was finally healthy. Bill said some things along the lines of he took the physical pressure off him so he could play the total game but that’s Bill. He praises everyone who ever walked by. He called Lucas the greatest Blazer of all time, even before he passed away though.

Part of what made Bill such a great player. He absolutely didn’t give a shit about his personal perception. Just wanted to win. Luckily Lucas was the same. At least at that time.

[ImKobe]

Sheed has said a lot of very honest, unfiltered things in his life.

But this is the only one which LOST him ALOT of CREDIBILITY. With EVERYBODY.

Whatever he says in the future will always be brought into doubt now,
Just cause he said this insanely stupid sh!t

Idk if he lost a lot of credibility, he's just yapping. He didn't really make a strong argument against Jordan because he didn't even evaluate his D outside of saying that MJ gambled for steals, and he could have meant that Jordan wasn't impacting the D on a level that a big man could, which I'd agree with as well, but Jordan for a SG was as good of a defender as it gets. His only real argument was that Jordan got the DPOY and all those defensive team selections because of his popularity. Bulls went from a mediocre D to top 3 in '88, and Jordan led his team in both steals and blocks by a significant margin.

Does sound like he's just hating. At least he has KAJ as the GOAT which I can respect.

[ArbitraryWater]

Very interesting...

[Phoenix]

Gilbert Arenas had a response to this with a bit more insight:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3C-60P1i8o&ab_channel=Gil%27sArena

Timestamp 1:42:03

[paksat]

That guy sucking Jordans D didn't help sheed

Who was that Muslim that got barred again from the league? If you watch the game he went off on the bulls, Jordan in the video told Scottie to switch and take him because he was getting slapped.

I thought that was cowardly. Sheeds not wrong, he's a great help defender but he's not quick enough on his feet to be a great man defender. Tmac had a ball with Jordan when he came back, even if it was old Jordan tmac was embarrassing him to the point he didn't belong in the league

[Da_Realist]

That guy sucking Jordans D didn't help sheed

Who was that Muslim that got barred again from the league? If you watch the game he went off on the bulls, Jordan in the video told Scottie to switch and take him because he was getting slapped.

I thought that was cowardly. Sheeds not wrong, he's a great help defender but he's not quick enough on his feet to be a great man defender. Tmac had a ball with Jordan when he came back, even if it was old Jordan tmac was embarrassing him to the point he didn't belong in the league

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. You're speaking of the game in 1996 where MJ almost single-handedly brought the Bulls back from like a 30 point deficit on the road?? Give me a playoff series where MJ was getting burned.

[Axe]

Why didn't he win 1v1 against this guy? :ohwell:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0bzs4vuC905iV8x65yUERWsRUZ6BU6 jNxbg&usqp=CAU

[Full Court]

Michael Jordan won DPOY.

Lebron never could.

OP is a shook loser.


:lebroncry:

[paksat]

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. You're speaking of the game in 1996 where MJ almost single-handedly brought the Bulls back from like a 30 point deficit on the road?? Give me a playoff series where MJ was getting burned.

bruh that man was like 155 lbs and the first thing you got to say is give you a playoff series where he got burned?

but okay - Clyde Drexler averaged 24.8 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists in 6 games in the 1992 NBA Finals.

[Da_Realist]

bruh that man was like 155 lbs and the first thing you got to say is give you a playoff series where he got burned?

but okay - Clyde Drexler averaged 24.8 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists in 6 games in the 1992 NBA Finals.

Ok if that works for you. What did Clyde do in all the previous playoff series that season?

Rebounds and assists have nothing to do with burning someone. So let's stick to scoring and shooting. Holding a top 5 shooting guard to 25 points on 41% shooting is not bad. It is certainly not "getting burned".

MJ averaged 27 on 42% against Seattle im 1996. Did he burn them?

[Da_Realist]

Gotta admit. Never heard about Clyde burning anyone in the 92 Finals even though I watched it live. Not then and not in the 30+ years since. Until the internet told me so. Anyone can throw stats around. Someone can posts stats to show Bill Russell wasn't that impactful defensively.

So what big moments did Clyde have offensively that series that would show he was too much for MJ? Anything when it mattered like in the swing games or the elimination game?

[paksat]

Ok if that works for you. What did Clyde do in all the previous playoff series that season?

Rebounds and assists have nothing to do with burning someone. So let's stick to scoring and shooting. Holding a top 5 shooting guard to 25 points on 41% shooting is not bad. It is certainly not "getting burned".

MJ averaged 27 on 42% against Seattle im 1996. Did he burn them?

He had less rebounds and more assists and averaged 1 one less point for those playoffs.

Well you asked and I gave it to you, clyde averaged 20 ppg for his career and he increased it by 5 points in not just the playoffs but the nba finals.

Idk what you're really asking for here that would sway you anyway if that doesn't. The 90s didn't have kobe bryant, tmac, vince carter, ray allen and so many other guards that can absolutely light it up. Clyde has zero issues with jordan https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/clyde-drexler-stats-vs-michael-jordan

rebounds and assists are how you win games too, discounting that just makes your argument look worse. Maybe box the guy out more? That's part of winning a basketball game too. Mitch richmond hit all of his averages when guarded by jordan.

There's not a lot of guards that can light you up in the 90s as it was a big mans game. You didn't have kobe, tmac, AI, vince carter etc.

[paksat]

Gotta admit. Never heard about Clyde burning anyone in the 92 Finals even though I watched it live. Not then and not in the 30+ years since. Until the internet told me so. Anyone can throw stats around. Someone can posts stats to show Bill Russell wasn't that impactful defensively.

So what big moments did Clyde have offensively that series that would show he was too much for MJ? Anything when it mattered like in the swing games or the elimination game?

quit acting like mj shut clyde down lol, he didn't even slow him down AT ALL. Acting like it was all mj for why he shot lower % when you got scottie pippen also switching off on him as well as providing help defense...

who you expect to just light jordan up in the 90s anyway? stockton? Payton? He should have SHUT PEOPLE DOWN

[Da_Realist]

quit acting like mj shut clyde down lol, he didn't even slow him down AT ALL. Acting like it was all mj for why he shot lower % when you got scottie pippen also switching off on him as well as providing help defense...

who you expect to just light jordan up in the 90s anyway? stockton? Payton? He should have SHUT PEOPLE DOWN

That's a lot of yelling without answering any questions

[90sgoat]

If I have to give Sheed some credit, it's if he is going by second 3-peat and Wizard Jordan and yeah, that wasn't the DPOY MJ.

Older MJ definitely played a lot of thuggish Stockton-like defense, slapping, pushing and so on. He wasn't running or hustling like in his youth.

I still think that counts to MJ's benefit. Lebron hasn't played defense since 2015 and we all remember Kobe in his last season.

[1987_Lakers]

If I have to give Sheed some credit, it's if he is going by second 3-peat and Wizard Jordan and yeah, that wasn't the DPOY MJ.

Older MJ definitely played a lot of thuggish Stockton-like defense, slapping, pushing and so on. He wasn't running or hustling like in his youth.

I still think that counts to MJ's benefit. Lebron hasn't played defense since 2015 and we all remember Kobe in his last season.

This simply isn't true. He led every player in blocks & steals during the '16 Finals, played solid defense throughout the 2020 championship run, & defended Jokic better than AD did in last year's WCF. The only problem is that LeBron wasn't given un-deserved All-defensive teams like you saw other superstars like Kobe did.

[tpols]

Rasheed Wallace is like the ultimate "conspiracy theorist guy". That's why I rock with him. :oldlol: He tells the truth.

In regards to this particular issue though there's holes in his story. All Defense teams are position based. There has to be guards on the team. Jordan didn't provide defense like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson at all but he did provide great defense at the guard position. Which is why he got selected to those teams. Nothing wrong with that.

[tpols]

This simply isn't true. He led every player in blocks & steals during the '16 Finals, played solid defense throughout the 2020 championship run, & defended Jokic better than AD did in last year's WCF. The only problem is that LeBron wasn't given un-deserved All-defensive teams like you saw other superstars like Kobe did.

Lebron has been put on the weakest offensive player since as early as 2009 when he ducked Hedo and was put on Courtney Lee. That's why he gets the counting stats... his man defense is trash and his coaches use his athleticism for help defense.

Jordan OTOH guarded Magic, Clyde, Reggie, Payton etc. whoever the best perimeter player was he guarded him and took the challenge.

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron has been put on the weakest offensive player since as early as 2009 when he ducked Hedo and was put on Courtney Lee. That's why he gets the counting stats... his man defense is trash and his coaches use his athleticism for help defense.

Jordan OTOH guarded Magic, Clyde, Reggie, Payton etc. whoever the best perimeter player was he guarded him and took the challenge.

LeBron was the man on Tony Parker for a good chunk of time during the 2013 Finals, and he shut him down.

Bulls had MJ mostly on 50 year old Chris Mullin while Harper defended Reggie for the majority of the '98 ECF.

Another post from you of just talking out of your ass.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/1998/05/20/the-reggie-rules-2/

Miller’s problems were far from Indiana’s only concerns. But his inability to function normally became an issue in the Pacers’ dressing room.

“It’s an embarrassment when Reggie Miller gets abused the way he does and does not get the calls, does not get to the line,” Mark Jackson said.

“They’re grabbing him. They’re shoving him. They’re hitting him.”

Miller’s production was within 2.3 points of his playoff average, but the impact was missing on a night when the Pacers gave themselves a chance to win. If Miller felt the officiating was a factor in his poor shooting night, he was keeping that opinion to himself.

“I’m not going to cry about how someone is playing defense,” Miller said.

For a second consecutive game, 6-foot 6-inch guard Ron Harper of the Bulls did much of the work that limited Miller.

[tpols]

And the lie detector test determined... that was a lie. Game footage right here.


https://youtu.be/JOLD8XXh78A?si=jGcm5M13WY0y5SSV

Mario Chalmers was the primary defender for the series on Tony Parker. Lebron only guarded him on spot duty here and there. Parker was actually clutch in that series too. He hit a game winner swivel shot and would've had another if not for Ray Allen's shot.

And then in 2014 when Lebron finally did guard his position Kawhi had his "breakout" performance right on his head, lighting him up, and leading the Spurs to the biggest margin of victory in NBA Finals history.

Is what it is.

[warriorfan]

And the lie detector test determined... that was a lie. Game footage right here.


https://youtu.be/JOLD8XXh78A?si=jGcm5M13WY0y5SSV

Mario Chalmers was the primary defender for the series on Tony Parker. Lebron only guarded him on spot duty here and there. Parker was actually clutch in that series too. He hit a game winner swivel shot and would've had another if not for Ray Allen's shot.

And then in 2014 when Lebron finally did guard his position Kawhi had his "breakout" performance right on his head, lighting him up, and leading the Spurs to the biggest margin of victory in NBA Finals history.

Is what it is.

:lol

[1987_Lakers]

I mispoke, not only did he shut down Parker. Dude was also giving Duncan fits.

https://streamable.com/6lqa63

[1987_Lakers]

And the lie detector test determined... that was a lie. Game footage right here.


https://youtu.be/JOLD8XXh78A?si=jGcm5M13WY0y5SSV

Mario Chalmers was the primary defender for the series on Tony Parker. Lebron only guarded him on spot duty here and there. Parker was actually clutch in that series too. He hit a game winner swivel shot and would've had another if not for Ray Allen's shot.

And then in 2014 when Lebron finally did guard his position Kawhi had his "breakout" performance right on his head, lighting him up, and leading the Spurs to the biggest margin of victory in NBA Finals history.

Is what it is.

LeBron defended Parker for the entire 2nd half in game 7 and Parker had 0 Points, 1 Assists, & 2 Turnovers. I remember watching that series, dude was shook whenever LeBron defended him in 2013.

[paksat]

That's a lot of yelling without answering any questions

I'm not gonna answer scripted silly questions like show me where Clyde was too much for Jordan........

Clyde hit his averages, Mitch hit his averages ... That's not great defense, that's average defense.

[Da_Realist]

I'm not gonna answer scripted silly questions like show me where Clyde was too much for Jordan........

Clyde hit his averages, Mitch hit his averages ... That's not great defense, that's average defense.

If 25 on 41% is burning someone then no one is a good defender. Not Gary Payton, not Kobe, not Bill Russell, not Sidney Moncrief, not Michael Cooper, not Dennis Johnson, not anyone. You don't stop great players from scoring, you make them as inefficient as possible. And you stop them from making meaningful impact. If this was a real burning, you would be able to point out these impactful plays easily over 6 games, not just post stats with no context.

[paksat]

If 25 on 41% is burning someone then no one is a good defender. Not Gary Payton, not Kobe, not Bill Russell, not Sidney Moncrief, not Michael Cooper, not Dennis Johnson, not anyone. You don't stop great players from scoring, you make them as inefficient as possible. And you stop them from making meaningful impact. If this was a real burning, you would be able to point out these impactful plays easily over 6 games, not just post stats with no context.

Look your initial statement made you win the argument regardless, show me someone that BURNED mj...

If you wanna think Jordan is on a level similar to Tony Allen by all means have at it. Drexler didn't have his most efficient series but he also got what he usually did.

In their normal games h usually shot around 50 percent through out their careers. Yes, I expect more.

If you watch the 92 Olympics he's constantly reaching for steals and getting burnt by the primary ball handler he's guarding.

I mean we can take this to his time on the wizards if you want? He made all star teams so he certainly could still play. No one had issues scoring on him, Kobe put what? 41 on his team at the HALF?

[Da_Realist]

Look your initial statement made you win the argument regardless, show me someone that BURNED mj...

If you wanna think Jordan is on a level similar to Tony Allen by all means have at it. Drexler didn't have his most efficient series but he also got what he usually did.

In their normal games h usually shot around 50 percent through out their careers. Yes, I expect more.

If you watch the 92 Olympics he's constantly reaching for steals and getting burnt by the primary ball handler he's guarding.

I mean we can take this to his time on the wizards if you want? He made all star teams so he certainly could still play. No one had issues scoring on him, Kobe put what? 41 on his team at the HALF?

If MJ is not that great of a defender then he would have gotten burned when it counted the most, not in some one-off regular season game. Anyone can get hot in a regular season game. There is no defender in history that hasn't been burned in some regular season game. The playoffs is where we see whether someone is a great defender or not. When you have game plans and your defense can adjust game to game.

So I asked you to show me where MJ got burned in the playoffs. You curiously pointed out the 1992 Finals. That Finals is up on the NBA app in its entirety. If MJ got burned then I don't remember seeing it. Did Clyde put up some good stats? Yes he did. So? The goal is not necessarily to hold your opponent to under 10 points. The goal is to win. Did Clyde's contribution make a meaningful impact? I don't remember that. I remember the Trailblazers came back from behind to win game 2 after Clyde had fouled out. I remember Clyde made a great steal at the end of game 4 to seal the victory. But that is defensive. Aside from some nice jump shots and dunks, I don't remember much about Clyde this series because he didn't have the impact that would make us remember. No last second shots to win the game. No scoring outburst of 40 points or more when his team needed buckets. In fact, 41% is struggling for a guy like Clyde. So I thought it was curious that you pointed this series out to expose MJ's defense.

[FKAri]

I thought this was going to be about how because of his offensive load he didn't have enough in the tank for D and therefore he shouldn't have been on those all-D teams. I get that. But he's just saying he wasn't that great at D. That's flat out bs. He probably wasn't the best on ball defender but was elite and he was an even better help defender.