Did MJ face more long shooting guards back then compared to today (gifs inside)

[3ba11]

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6'7"Reggie Lewis



https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2024/wEb0v-.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-03-2024/c1y_7M.gif



6'7" Dale Ellis (one of the greatest 3-point bombers ever with He-Man physique in the 80's):



https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2024/ecPcKO.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2024/8dBCwI.gif



6'7" "Thunder" Dan Majerle (one of greatest shooters ever)



https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc2ZqaGFxdmJtczFrNHMyYWM4bDl2Z3Q zdTA1amx6dzV3aGN0NjFjcSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/30KRmRhU0f8Q0/giphy-downsized-large.gif


* Tons of other 6'7" shooting guards like Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Reggie Theus, Gervin, Willie Anderson, Malik Sealy, Michael Finley, Doug West and more


Pippen vs Reggie Lewis as #1 options in the playoffs

92' LEWIS..... 28/4/4.. 57.0 ts.. 23.8 PER.. 0.177 ws.. 4.1 dbpm.. 2.6 obpm.. 6.8 bpm.. 0.9 vorp
94' PIPPEN.... 23/8/5.. 52.1 ts.. 22.8 PER.. 0.149 ws.. 4.0 dbpm.. 1.6 obpm.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.7 vorp

[HoopsNY]

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6'7"Reggie Lewis



https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2024/wEb0v-.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-03-2024/c1y_7M.gif



6'7" Dale Ellis (one of the greatest 3-point bombers ever with He-Man physique in the 80's):



https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2024/ecPcKO.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2024/8dBCwI.gif



6'7" "Thunder" Dan Majerle (one of greatest shooters ever)



https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc2ZqaGFxdmJtczFrNHMyYWM4bDl2Z3Q zdTA1amx6dzV3aGN0NjFjcSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/30KRmRhU0f8Q0/giphy-downsized-large.gif


* Tons of other 6'7" shooting guards like Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Reggie Theus, Gervin, Willie Anderson, Malik Sealy, Michael Finley, Doug West and more


Pippen vs Reggie Lewis as #1 options in the playoffs

92' LEWIS..... 28/4/4.. 57.0 ts.. 23.8 PER.. 0.177 ws.. 4.1 dbpm.. 2.6 obpm.. 6.8 bpm.. 0.9 vorp
94' PIPPEN.... 23/8/5.. 52.1 ts.. 22.8 PER.. 0.149 ws.. 4.0 dbpm.. 1.6 obpm.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.7 vorp

Did you really mention Malik Sealy? LOL.

I recall his passing. Sad day for T-Wolves fans and the NBA.

[FKAri]

No. At 6'6'' he was already a big guard for his era. He had little resistance on the perimeter. A lot less than he would have today. But the real resistance he was facing and overcoming were the big guys in the paint. And the fouls he was eating, the defenders were getting their money's worth.

[3ba11]

No. At 6'6'' he was already a big guard for his era. He had little resistance on the perimeter. A lot less than he would have today. But the real resistance he was facing and overcoming were the big guys in the paint. And the fouls he was eating, the defenders were getting their money's worth.


I meant to change the title to "Did MJ face more 6'7" shooting guards in his era than he would face today?"

Who are the 6'7" shooting guards that MJ would face today?

I don't see any, whereas I just named a bunch from the 80's in the OP.
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Harden, Bane, RJ Barrett, Bogdonovic, Beal, Booker, Ant Edwards - these guys are 6'4" to 6'6" and today's game has more small guy shooters listed as SG's like Kyrie Irving, Maxey, Eric Gordon, and more short specialist shooters than previous eras had

Again, I meant to change the title to 6'7" shooting guards and all the examples in the OP are 6'7" SG's.. fyi league-average height is less today than the 80's and 90's btw by nearly a full inch.. plus spacing and hands-off equals 50

[warriorfan]

Now adays spacing is so valued teams will choose a smaller undersized SG with better shooting over a super athletic 6’7” SG in most occasions

[Xiao Yao You]

Now adays spacing is so valued teams will choose a smaller undersized SG with better shooting over a super athletic 6’7” SG in most occasions

Maybe. 6'7 guys that can guard multiple positions are highly valued. Might be playing the 3 or 4 instead of the 2

[warriorfan]

Maybe. 6'7 guys that can guard multiple positions are highly valued. Might be playing the 3 or 4 instead of the 2

Yes.

You are starting to see a lot of that now it seems. Guys that would usually be playing 4 are playing 5, guys usually playing 3 are playing 4, so on and so forth

[FKAri]

I meant to change the title to "Did MJ face more 6'7" shooting guards in his era than he would face today?"

Who are the 6'7" shooting guards that MJ would face today?

I don't see any, whereas I just named a bunch from the 80's in the OP.
'
Harden, Bane, RJ Barrett, Bogdonovic, Beal, Booker, Ant Edwards - these guys are 6'4" to 6'6" and today's game has more small guy shooters listed as SG's like Kyrie Irving, Maxey, Eric Gordon, and more short specialist shooters than previous eras had

Again, I meant to change the title to 6'7" shooting guards and all the examples in the OP are 6'7" SG's.. fyi league-average height is less today than the 80's and 90's btw by nearly a full inch.. plus spacing and hands-off equals 50
You named Dale Ellis like he's some kind of defensive force lmao. And anyone you're going to name who is tall is going to be built like a toothpick so most definitely not big. The big guys were in the paint. Not on the outside.

[3ba11]

You named Dale Ellis like he's some kind of defensive force lmao. And anyone you're going to name who is tall is going to be built like a toothpick so most definitely not big. The big guys were in the paint. Not on the outside.


if you watch Dale Ellis, you'll see that guys bounce off him when he's in the paint or going to the hole - he was extremely strong and MJ couldn't bully him or easily shoot over him, whereas MJ would bully and see over today's shrimps that aren't even allowed to touch or impede him.

[FKAri]

if you watch Dale Ellis, you'll see that guys bounce off him when he's in the paint or going to the hole - he was extremely strong and MJ couldn't bully him or easily shoot over him, whereas MJ would bully and see over today's shrimps that aren't even allowed to touch or impede him.

Bounce off him because those other guys weighed even less than him.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-03-2024/c1y_7M.gif
Speaking of guys being allowed to touch or impede. Look at this physical defense by Ehlo. This is what happens when the big is out of position in any era. Hand check doesn't do jack squat. Although, Ehlo being the defensive savant that he was didn't even employ it. Instead he let a man blow by him at the 12 foot mark. Hey btw wasn't that MJ's primary defender in a playoff series?

[3ba11]

Bounce off him because those other guys weighed even less than him.


Speaking of guys being allowed to touch or impede. Look at this physical defense by Ehlo. This is what happens when the big is out of position in any era. Hand check doesn't do jack squat. Although, Ehlo being the defensive savant that he was didn't even employ it. Instead he let a man blow by him at the 12 foot mark. Hey btw wasn't that MJ's primary defender in a playoff series?


The key is that Lewis acted immediately upon the catch due to the superior instinct developed from growing up in no-spacing basketball - the tighter space and closer defenders doesn't allow guys to stand and hold the ball or start dribbling and play around with it.

Otoh, today's spaced-out, beginner format allows everyone to take their time and take all day deciding what to do because the help defenders are spaced out and so far away.

The quicker instinct and greater mid-range touch developed from the no-spacing eras is seen in international play, where our current players struggle to adjust to the lesser spacing and higher physicality - they lack the mid-range touch and quicker instinct required because Adam Silver instituted a beginner format in the NBA

[Xiao Yao You]

Bounce off him because those other guys weighed even less than him.


Speaking of guys being allowed to touch or impede. Look at this physical defense by Ehlo. This is what happens when the big is out of position in any era. Hand check doesn't do jack squat. Although, Ehlo being the defensive savant that he was didn't even employ it. Instead he let a man blow by him at the 12 foot mark. Hey btw wasn't that MJ's primary defender in a playoff series?

They traded Ron Harper because of Ehlo

[FKAri]

The key is that Lewis acted immediately upon the catch due to the superior instinct developed from growing up in no-spacing basketball - the tighter space and closer defenders doesn't allow guys to stand and hold the ball or start dribbling and play around with it.

Otoh, today's spaced-out, beginner format allows everyone to take their time and take all day deciding what to do because the help defenders are spaced out and so far away.

The quicker instinct and greater mid-range touch developed from the no-spacing eras is seen in international play, where our current players struggle to adjust to the lesser spacing and higher physicality - they lack the mid-range touch and quicker instinct required because Adam Silver instituted a beginner format in the NBA

You're right. When your team can't play offense it's harder to play offense. When your team has 3 guys who can't shoot, drive or isolate vs NCAA level talent, it's harder for the other 2 guys. Now while these 3 guys may be horrific scorers they set better picks, moved without the ball better, understood plays better and did the other little things better than the modern baller.

[90sgoat]

There are hardly any shooting guards left today. Most 6'6'' players today are hybrid wings.

[Hey Yo]

Doug West was listed as 6'6".... more lies by OP as usual.

[tpols]

You named Dale Ellis like he's some kind of defensive force lmao. And anyone you're going to name who is tall is going to be built like a toothpick so most definitely not big. The big guys were in the paint. Not on the outside.

Thunder Dan doesn't look like a toothpick at all. He looks like a borderline body builder. Longer jay cutler.

[LAL]

I like you 3ball but this aspect his where Kobe was more impressive. Without a shadow of doubt.

[warriorfan]

Bounce off him because those other guys weighed even less than him.


Speaking of guys being allowed to touch or impede. Look at this physical defense by Ehlo. This is what happens when the big is out of position in any era. Hand check doesn't do jack squat. Although, Ehlo being the defensive savant that he was didn't even employ it. Instead he let a man blow by him at the 12 foot mark. Hey btw wasn't that MJ's primary defender in a playoff series?

Dale Ellis was a bad dude

And can you please stop with this hand checking doesn’t effect anything shit? I know you saw gilbert arenas spout it when he was on a manic episode hunting for clicks….but it’s an all around embarrassing take

[Xiao Yao You]

Dale Ellis was a bad dude

And can you please stop with this hand checking doesn’t effect anything shit? I know you saw gilbert arenas spout it when he was on a manic episode hunting for clicks….but it’s an all around embarrassing take

never thought much of Ellis myself

[warriorfan]

never thought much of Ellis myself

I wouldn’t call Ellis a toothpick. Dude was very well built for an athletic 2/3

[FKAri]

Dale Ellis was a bad dude

As a defender? **** no.


And can you please stop with this hand checking doesn’t effect anything shit? I know you saw gilbert arenas spout it when he was on a manic episode hunting for clicks….but it’s an all around embarrassing take
Worthless if the guard has quickness, size and handles. If you're good enough you don't need all 3:

Here's a 21 year old, rookie AI at 5-11 165:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwN5-BHAan0

Not a hand on him because there's no time to do it when a guy can cover this kind of space and get you off balance. You could see the turn of the tide with Penny and Grant Hill. David Stern was like "I found the formula" and tweaked the league to encourage this brand of ball but it was coming in regardless.

[Xiao Yao You]

I wouldn’t call Ellis a toothpick. Dude was very well built for an athletic 2/3

still didn't think much of him

[Xiao Yao You]

As a defender? **** no.


Worthless if the guard has quickness, size and handles. If you're good enough you don't need all 3:

Here's a 21 year old, rookie AI at 5-11 165:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwN5-BHAan0

Not a hand on him because there's no time to do it when a guy can cover this kind of space and get you off balance. You could see the turn of the tide with Penny and Grant Hill. David Stern was like "I found the formula" and tweaked the league to encourage this brand of ball but it was coming in regardless.

why would you put a hand on him when he shot under 40%? please throw up another prayer against a triple team AI!

[3ba11]

I like you 3ball but this aspect his where Kobe was more impressive. Without a shadow of doubt.


I listed a bunch of 6'7" shooting guards from MJ's era, while today's era has none and Kobe's era had similar to MJ's era except Kobe was often guarded by SF's because his quickness advantage wasn't as severe as MJ's, or his jumpshot elevation

[warriorfan]

As a defender? **** no.


Worthless if the guard has quickness, size and handles. If you're good enough you don't need all 3:

Here's a 21 year old, rookie AI at 5-11 165:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwN5-BHAan0

Not a hand on him because there's no time to do it when a guy can cover this kind of space and get you off balance. You could see the turn of the tide with Penny and Grant Hill. David Stern was like "I found the formula" and tweaked the league to encourage this brand of ball but it was coming in regardless.

this is so cringe man. like i don’t even know what to say. have you ever played basketball a day in your life?

[FKAri]

this is so cringe man. like i don’t even know what to say. have you ever played basketball a day in your life?
I was actually pretty nice but I can understand you disagreeing with my take. It's a bit controversial. But I think that's only because people conflate it with other things. The ball handling rules have opened things up more than dropping the hand check has. But people just look at 2 things and see one had hand check and one didn't and make their mind up.

And no Arenas isn't the only one saying this. Grant Hill has said the same thing and he's another example of a guy this applies to. Guys his size were taught to not face up. It wasn't until he faced up that he realized with his speed, handles and size he could blow by dudes. It was a stylistic shift that was coming regardless. The rules then came in to encourage this more commercially appealing brand of ball.

[LAL]

I listed a bunch of 6'7" shooting guards from MJ's era, while today's era has none and Kobe's era had similar to MJ's era except Kobe was often guarded by SF's because his quickness advantage wasn't as severe as MJ's, or his jumpshot elevation

That's a lie. It was because he was eating the shorter guys for breakfast with ease 1on1 every single time (it's on tape if you don't believe me).

Same way Mike did 90% of the time because the sg position was weak and rules, besides guys like sprewel, lewis, smith, mason etc.. where he looked good instead of great.