Luka vs peak Lebron (Offense only)

[iamgine]

Both great scorers. Both great playmakers. Who's actually better at offense?

[Im Still Ballin]

Peak Miami LeBron because he had a complete game more or less.

- His shooting was great (76% FT, 37% 3PT, 42-43% mid-range)
- His spot-up shooting was good enough to rank 2nd in the league in PPP (2012-13)
- His post-up game was good enough to lead the league in PPP (2013-14)
- He had better shot selection
- He played off the ball more than at any point in his career
- He played the PF position and developed some of his big man potential (screening, rolling, rebounding, posting up, etc)

Although Doncic is craftier and more skilled, I'll need to see him develop a more well-rounded offensive game. That means developing an off-ball arsenal primarily.

[Im Still Ballin]

If I had to pick one single season as LeBron's best offensively, it'd be his last in Miami: 2013-14. Scoring was the most effortless it had ever been for him. And it translated into the playoffs. Not surprisingly, this is when Bosh started really getting used to hitting threes.

Miami was doing the positionless, five-out lineup a few years before GSW. People seem to forget that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HbFGpyUV8k&pp=ygUibGVicm9uIGphbWVzIHZzIGJyb29rbHluIG5ldHMgMjA xNA%3D%3D

[90sgoat]

Quite easily Luka in the half court, but Lebron at his best was an all time great in the open floor, which gave him a lot of easy points. Luka doesn't run at all.

[1987_Lakers]

What was LeBron's peak offensively? 2013 & 2014 when he developed a better jumper and a post game or 2018 when he was dropping 40 points every game in the playoffs?

[Charlie Sheen]

Both great scorers. Both great playmakers. Who's actually better at offense?

boring answer but it has to be the known quantity... lebron.

Luka is based on a projection he will end up there.

[Im Still Ballin]

Quite easily Luka in the half court, but Lebron at his best was an all time great in the open floor, which gave him a lot of easy points. Luka doesn't run at all.

That's a good point. Transition + better off-ball game gives peak LeBron the win here.

[FultzNationRISE]

Peak Miami LeBron because he had a complete game more or less.

- His shooting was great (76% FT, 37% 3PT, 42-43% mid-range)
- His spot-up shooting was good enough to rank 2nd in the league in PPP (2012-13)
- His post-up game was good enough to lead the league in PPP (2013-14)
- He had better shot selection
- He played off the ball more than at any point in his career
- He played the PF position and developed some of his big man potential (screening, rolling, rebounding, posting up, etc)

Although Doncic is craftier and more skilled, I'll need to see him develop a more well-rounded offensive game. That means developing an off-ball arsenal primarily.

This.

Lebron can create plays but also finishes plays others create at an elite level. Luka can really only create plays or finish his own plays. He's not a threat cutting to the rim.

Doncic has "more bag" when it comes to making moves but Lebron is just a greater offensive threat overall.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think people need to get over this idea Luka is ever gonna be an off ball player. He's too bulky, he's not gonna run around and shake people off back screens to get open threes, and he's not gonna finish above the rim on lobs and such. He's a penguin not an eagle. He's purely a point guard and his value is in making plays for others or creating for himself. Not playing off ball. He's never going to do that and he would not be an asset doing that.

He is able to shine in big moments, so with the right players around him he can absolutely win a championship. But people need to understand the physics of why certain players have certain games. You cant just choose to do things youre not physically adapted for.

[dankok8]

Numbers being so inflated these days is what leads to this comparison.

The answer is Lebron and I don't want to say easily but I wouldn't hesitate. Luka is more crafty but Lebron's rim pressure just overrides anything Luka can do in terms of raw impact. Being unstoppable going to the rim just creates so many open shots for teammates.

[90sgoat]

I think people need to get over this idea Luka is ever gonna be an off ball player. He's too bulky, he's not gonna run around and shake people off back screens to get open threes, and he's not gonna finish above the rim on lobs and such. He's a penguin not an eagle. He's purely a point guard and his value is in making plays for others or creating for himself. Not playing off ball. He's never going to do that and he would not be an asset doing that.

He is able to shine in big moments, so with the right players around him he can absolutely win a championship. But people need to understand the physics of why certain players have certain games. You cant just choose to do things youre not physically adapted for.

When I say off ball, I only mean that he shouldn't walk the ball up every possession. That's a complete waste of energy.

I'd also want him to create out of the post more, which is where his actual league beating skill is. There are many good PnR guards, there are none who can match him in the post. He was leading the league in points pr postup last year.

He should study Charles Barkley or Dirk. Just run to the baseline. Get the ball, two dribbles, fade or pass out of double.

He doesn't want to do that for the same reason as Lebron, it hurts more, harder fouls.

[Kblaze8855]

Thi The kind of comparison, the current brand of basketball makes impossible to me. Two things are clear. Luka is more traditionally polished and has a better touch and deeper “bag” than LeBron. He’s also about 40% as athletic. Both our paths to being unstoppable. If you put LeBron from 15 years ago out here, with the even faster pace, and even less traffic in the paint? You just give him the ball and tell him the score? I’m not sure he couldn’t score 38 points a game.

On the other hand, LeBron actually lasted all the way through to this era and doesn’t do that. He has maintained more of his athletic ability than people usually do but now it’s just good instead of overwhelming.

I don’t know how to decide this without being unfair to one of them.

[tpols]

Luka is craftier and has more skills and more balls taking big shots... but it's almost like comparing a bobcat to a Siberian Tiger athletically.

[RRR3]

Thi The kind of comparison, the current brand of basketball makes impossible to me. Two things are clear. Luka is more traditionally polished and has a better touch and deeper “bag” than LeBron. He’s also about 40% as athletic. Both our paths to being unstoppable. If you put LeBron from 15 years ago out here, with the even faster pace, and even less traffic in the paint? You just give him the ball and tell him the score? I’m not sure he couldn’t score 38 points a game.

On the other hand, LeBron actually lasted all the way through to this era and doesn’t do that. He has maintained more of his athletic ability than people usually do but now it’s just good instead of overwhelming.

I don’t know how to decide this without being unfair to one of them.
If LeBron was scoring 38 PPG at his current age he’d be the unquestioned GOAT. I don’t think he could do 38 just because no one really plays enough minutes to score that much anymore (most guys are capped at 36-37 and even now it’s hard to score more than a point a minute). I’m pretty confident in saying he’d do 34-35 though considering he was scoring almost 30 PPG recently despite being clearly worse to anyone’s eye test.

[SATAN]

How quickly they forget...Peak LeBron would be dominating the league.

Next.

[HoopsNY]

LeBron any day of the week. Peak LeBron would just eviscerate today's game. He put up 30/8/6 PPG on 52/36/76 splits just a couple of seasons ago at the age of 37.

Now imagine him at 27? Uff....

I'm guessing something like 36/11/10 on 55/37/78.

[StrongLurk]

Too hard to compare since Luka has ONLY played in the easiest offensive era ever.

[RRR3]

LeBron any day of the week. Peak LeBron would just eviscerate today's game. He put up 30/8/6 PPG on 52/36/76 splits just a couple of seasons ago at the age of 37.

Now imagine him at 27? Uff....

I'm guessing something like 36/11/10 on 55/37/78.
Yeah I think there’s a good chance LeBron is consensus GOAT if he is in his prime in today’s league. Shows how perception is influenced by the way the league is cuz he wouldn’t be any better than he was. On a similar note someone (maybe Wemby) is gonna make both LeBron and MJ look obsolete in the GOAT debate if Silver keeps defense banned. We haven’t seen that player yet but eventually we’ll get a guy like LeBron who can shoot consistently or a Jokic like player who’s elite at defense. Now imagine such a player with the way games are played today.

[Baller234]

Lebron and it's not close to me.

I am rarely "wowed" by what Luka does on the floor. He's very skilled but I'm still not convinced he's this transcendent, generational player. Plus he carries the ball like a mutherfukker.

Lebron was always good for 1 or 2 "wows" a game. Like "holy shit did I just see that" type stuff.

First time I ever saw Lebron play was on ESPN when they televised one of his high school games. I remember he made a behind the back bounce pass IN transition... THROUGH traffic... and it was executed flawlessly. First time he was ever on national television, at 18 year old, and he does something maybe a handful of guys throughout history were ever capable of.

I haven't had that feeling watching Luka yet.

[tpols]

LeBron any day of the week. Peak LeBron would just eviscerate today's game. He put up 30/8/6 PPG on 52/36/76 splits just a couple of seasons ago at the age of 37.

Now imagine him at 27? Uff....

I'm guessing something like 36/11/10 on 55/37/78.

People don't fully comprehend how athletic lebron was (even though he still is). Imagine being a 240 6'7 at 16 or 17 years old with guard skills, speed, and hops... Lebron is probably the GOAT High school basketball player.


https://youtu.be/PyM98JQCN9c?si=jaP015Qg0K599J7V

@1:20 to 2:00 lebron throws down a nonchalant tomahawk dunks where his head meets the rim and throws a behind the back pass effortlessly.

And all taped up looking like and being the size of an NFL linebacker. At 16 or 17.

[Cold soul]

LeBron is at worse 2 to 3 tiers above Luka if prime- peak LeBron was playing today he would be head shoulders above everyone else there wouldn’t even be a debate. Numbers being so inflated these days barely any defense played it’s a joke to watch.