Doc Rivers 1-4 start with Bucks

[beasted]

Opponents:

Jan 29 @ DEN, MIL (32-15) lost to DEN, 107-113
Jan 31 @ POR, MIL (32-16) lost to POR, 116-119
Feb 3 @ DAL, MIL (33-16) beat DAL, 129-117
Feb 4 @ UTA, MIL (33-17) lost to UTA, 108-123
Feb 6 @ PHO, MIL (33-18) lost to PHO, 106-114

Product of a road trip? Or what? This isn't being talked about enough. They said Griffin was unqualified to be a coach.

Wha happun?

[FultzNationRISE]

Clippers started similarly after the Harden trade and eventually went on a tear. Whether Doc works out for them or not I have no idea, but I'm not surprised youre drawing conclusions on a five game sample size after he just got there. Seems like a you thing.

[bison]

#FireDocRivers

[beasted]

Clippers started similarly after the Harden trade and eventually went on a tear. Whether Doc works out for them or not I have no idea, but I'm not surprised youre drawing conclusions on a five game sample size after he just got there. Seems like a you thing.

For a guy who was completely unqualified, and the team won 'despite' him, Griffin never went 1-4 over any span of the season. Prunty went 2-1.

Does that mean that Rivers is also unqualified? Just by this 5-game start, it automatically puts Rivers in jeopardy of having a worse regular season record than Griffin. He would need to win 81% of the remaining games (25 out of 31) just to match the winning percentage of Griffin (see: unlikely).

[FultzNationRISE]

For a guy who was completely unqualified, and the team won 'despite' him, Griffin never went 1-4 over any span of the season.

Does that mean that Rivers is also unqualified? Just by this 5-game start, it automatically puts Rivers in jeopardy of having a worse regular season record than Griffin. He would need to win 81% of the remaining games (25 out of 31) just to match the winning percentage of Griffin (see: unlikely).

I have no idea what point you are making.

The Houston Rockets once won 27 games in a row and lost in the first round of the playoffs. Every year theres a team like the Bobcats or Wizards that starts out 8-3 or 11-4 and people start talking about them being for real, and then they of course finish in the lottery.

Anomalies are a thing. They happen in basketball. Do you really think these Bucks are a .200 team with Doc because of this first 5 game sample size?

If so, youre beyond daft. If not, what the hell is your point?

This is why jinx threads happen so often. As soon as the pendulum moves in one direction people wanna immediately spout and gloat and preen as if it is the end result, with no patience or perspective about the fact it's eventually gonna come back toward a law of averages.

If you wanna do a victory lap because you think 5 regular season games validates some point you think youve made... well, go ahead I guess. Do whatever you want. I dont care.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Doc likely won't win a title there but in the few games he's coached Lillaird has either shot badly or not played 4 out of 5 nights. Rivers chose to accept this job so its not a case of him being set up but the two huge mistakes (firing Budenholzer and leaving Holiday loose for the Celtics) were made before he had anything to do with the team. Their organization deserves some criticism and I suspect they hired Doc because with all of the friends he has in the media they won't get looked at as harshly for their bad moves.

[beasted]

I have no idea what point you are making.

The Houston Rockets once won 27 games in a row and lost in the first round of the playoffs. Every year theres a team like the Bobcats or Wizards that starts out 8-3 or 11-4 and people start talking about them being for real, and then they of course finish in the lottery.

Anomalies are a thing. They happen in basketball. Do you really think these Bucks are a .200 team with Doc because of this first 5 game sample size?

If so, youre beyond daft. If not, what the hell is your point?

This is why jinx threads happen so often. As soon as the pendulum moves in one direction people wanna immediately spout and gloat and preen as if it is the end result, with no patience or perspective about the fact it's eventually gonna come back toward a law of averages.

If you wanna do a victory lap because you think 5 regular season games validates some point you think youve made... well, go ahead I guess. Do whatever you want. I dont care.
My point is quite elementary and somehow beyond your comprehension.

It's that coaches aren't perfect. The patience you grant someone is completely dependent on how much you like them and/or are invested in them. They just weren't invested in Griffin because Giannis was no longer invested in him.

Because Griffin didn't have them humming doesn't mean he isn't qualified to be a coach, just as losing 4 out of 5 (amid some brutal losses EX: giving up 40 in the 4th to Utah while scoring 13) doesn't suddenly make Rivers unqualified.

[beasted]

Doc likely won't win a title there but in the few games he's coached Lillaird has either shot badly or not played 4 out of 5 nights. Rivers chose to accept this job so its not a case of him being set up but the two huge mistakes (firing Budenholzer and leaving Holiday loose for the Celtics) were made before he had anything to do with the team. Their organization deserves some criticism and I suspect they hired Doc because with all of the friends he has in the media they won't get looked at as harshly for their bad moves.

Lillard missed one game in this stretch just as an FYI, Brook 1 also.

[Real Men Wear Green]

For a guy who was completely unqualified, and the team won 'despite' him, Griffin never went 1-4 over any span of the season. Prunty went 2-1.

Does that mean that Rivers is also unqualified? Just by this 5-game start, it automatically puts Rivers in jeopardy of having a worse regular season record than Griffin. He would need to win 81% of the remaining games (25 out of 31) just to match the winning percentage of Griffin (see: unlikely).

As a rookie coach Griffin should not have been put in charge of a team trying to win a championship. They then made themselves look even worse by firing him well-before he had been given what most people would think of as a fair chance. Of course we hear about stuff that was Goin ng on to justify the firing and it may all be true but if you fire a guy in second place after 40 games you're going to get so me egg on your face.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Lillard missed one game in this stretch just as an FYI, Brook 1 also.

And when the sample is five games that's a significant amount of missed games.

[Real Men Wear Green]

My point is quite elementary and somehow beyond your comprehension.

It's that coaches aren't perfect. The patience you grant someone is completely dependent on how much you like them and/or are invested in them. They just weren't invested in Griffin because Giannis was no longer invested in him.

Because Griffin didn't have them humming doesn't mean he isn't qualified to be a coach, just as losing 4 out of 5 (amid some brutal losses EX: giving up 40 in the 4th to Utah while scoring 13) doesn't suddenly make Rivers unqualified.

This is all true but I don't think Griffin was fired over the team record. He hear about the incident that lead to Scott's sitting, that he lost the locker room and the drop off in defense. I mainly blame that last thing on replacing Holiday with Lillaird but the front office isn't going to blame itself when it screws up.

[Duffy Pratt]

And when the sample is five games that's a significant amount of missed games.

When the sample itself is insignificant, any part of it is also insignificant.

[beasted]

As a rookie coach Griffin should not have been put in charge of a team trying to win a championship. They then made themselves look even worse by firing him well-before he had been given what most people would think of as a fair chance. Of course we hear about stuff that was Goin ng on to justify the firing and it may all be true but if you fire a guy in second place after 40 games you're going to get so me egg on your face.

I agree. I don't think he was a great coach, but I think he was qualified. His first hire should have been a team with lower expectations and pressure to perform immediately.

I do think the GM+POBO are doing any and everything to save themself and shirk the blame. But I look at some moves like 5 2nd rounders for Crowder and it reeks of desperation.

[FultzNationRISE]

My point is quite elementary and somehow beyond your comprehension.

It's that coaches aren't perfect. The patience you grant someone is completely dependent on how much you like them and/or are invested in them. They just weren't invested in Griffin because Giannis was no longer invested in him.

Because Griffin didn't have them humming doesn't mean he isn't qualified to be a coach, just as losing 4 out of 5 (amid some brutal losses EX: giving up 40 in the 4th to Utah while scoring 13) doesn't suddenly make Rivers unqualified.


Ok. So youre saying they should base decisions on short term results. If they win some games, keep the coach. If not, ditch him.

In other words, youre kinda like the average investor who judges a company on whether the stock is up or down lately. Which is exactly what most people do. That's the common approach.

If you listen to guys like Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffet, they'll tell you flat out, over and over again they dont hesitate to make a major shakeup even if the stock is up, or to sit tight and trust the process if the stock is down. They dont care what a stock did in the last six months. They understand what to look for and what matters long term, so they rely on their judgement for decision making, rather than the superficial indicators of short term results.

But I'm guessing you probably dont listen to them too often. And clearly you cant fathom why a basketball team would make a change even if the recent results appear outwardly sufficient.

Thats ok. We're just two different kinds of people when it comes to how we see things. It's all good.

[rawimpact]

Doc is a bad coach altogether.

His claim to fame was due to three vets forming a superteam and even then he arguably underachieved.

[beasted]

Ok. So youre saying they should base decisions on short term results. If they win some games, keep the coach. If not, ditch him.

In other words, youre kinda like the average investor who judges a company on whether the stock is up or down lately. Which is exactly what most people do. That's the common approach.

If you listen to guys like Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffet, they'll tell you flat out, over and over again they dont hesitate to make a major shakeup even if the stock is up, or to sit tight and trust the process if the stock is down. They dont care what a stock did in the last six months. They understand what to look for and what matters long term, so they rely on their judgement for decision making, rather than the superficial indicators of short term results.

But I'm guessing you probably dont listen to them too often. And clearly you cant fathom why a basketball team would make a change even if the recent results appear outwardly sufficient.

Thats ok. We're just two different kinds of people when it comes to how we see things. It's all good.

You're equating terrible analogies. Company strategy and stock price has absolutely ZERO to do with stock price.

For example, let's say that I created a 3rd party auto repair shop like Tire Kingdom called "Dodge Decoders." I somehow came up with some innovative partnership that allowed me exclusive rights to an apprenticeship program for all universities and technical schools in the USA. I also innovated the most thorough and successful training program that allowed new techs to have access to all the secret repair tricks and AI cameras that ensure techs didn't make any mistakes, that also made me 50% more efficient at repairing Dodge vehicles. This allowed me to have labor 75% less than all the competition and rake in absurd profits. My stock prices would fly through the roof. But since I've only been able to master Dodge repairs and have not diversified, it's a ticking time bomb regardless of the stock price. My exclusive contract will eventually end, and Dodge may go out of business, or my competition may develop their own AI.

Alternatively, the opposite stock trend of starting slow and rising fast, I could buy up all middle Florida land where nobody wants to live, lose money for the next 20 years developing the infrastructure of cellular towers, fiber, plumbing, etc. to these areas and then make billions as the sea level continues to rise and everyone runs inland because of the flooding coasts.

These are again just very elementary analogies to show your ideas are totally off base.

Aside from everything I've said, you literally started this post off saying "if they win some games keep the coach" that's literally the opposite of what they did. What are you even talking about?

My brain hurts. I'm gonna go.

[FultzNationRISE]

You're equating terrible analogies. Company strategy and stock price has absolutely ZERO to do with stock price.

For example, let's say that I created a 3rd party auto repair shop like Tire Kingdom called "Dodge Decoders." I somehow came up with some innovative partnership that allowed me exclusive rights to an apprenticeship program for all universities and technical schools in the USA. I also innovated the most thorough and successful training program that allowed new techs to have access to all the secret repair tricks and AI cameras that ensure techs didn't make any mistakes, that also made me 50% more efficient at repairing Dodge vehicles. This allowed me to have labor 75% less than all the competition and rake in absurd profits. My stock prices would fly through the roof. But since I've only been able to master Dodge repairs and have not diversified, it's a ticking time bomb regardless of the stock price. My exclusive contract will eventually end, and Dodge may go out of business, or my competition may develop their own AI.

Alternatively, the opposite stock trend of starting slow and rising fast, I could buy up all middle Florida land where nobody wants to live, lose money for the next 20 years developing the infrastructure of cellular towers, fiber, plumbing, etc. to these areas and then make billions as the sea level continues to rise and everyone runs inland because of the flooding coasts.

These are again just very elementary analogies to show your ideas are totally off base.

Aside from everything I've said, you literally started this post off saying "if they win some games keep the coach" that's literally the opposite of what they did. What are you even talking about?

My brain hurts. I'm gonna go.


I didnt read thru the rest of that gibberish but as far as the bolded, I was describing YOUR approach as "win some games, keep the coach." That's what makes sense to you. Without examining the underlying causal factors, just purely letting the results from 1/3 of a regular season inform your decision making.

That is the conventional approach, and youre right, it's the opposite of what Milwaukee did. You obviously think they took the wrong approach, while I feel their logic is sensible. We just disagree. I'm not sure how or where I lost you in terms of that being my point.

Anyway it's ok boss. Whatever makes sense to you. Feel how you feel.

[90sgoat]

The issue is Lillar, not Doc.

Lillard is pretty damn clutch on offense, better than Luka at step backs, but he's also worse on defense than Luka, which is really saying something.

[FultzNationRISE]

The issue is Lillar, not Doc.

Lillard is pretty damn clutch on offense, better than Luka at step backs, but he's also worse on defense than Luka, which is really saying something.


None of it matters right now anyway, they got him specifically to hit big shots in the playoffs. That's the thing they were lacking. Jrue's fg% had a habit of dipping in the playoffs, Grayson wasnt shooting in Milwaukee like he has been in Phoenix this year, Connaughton is fine but he's obviously not Dame. They wanted to add some offensive firepower at guard for the post season, and in theory that's what theyve done.

There's really no point in judging anything theyve done until the playoffs. If theyre successful then nobody will care about any of this stuff going on now.

[coin24]

Should have stuck with griffin, doc is a downgrade from any coach in the league:lol

[90sgoat]

None of it matters right now anyway, they got him specifically to hit big shots in the playoffs. That's the thing they were lacking. Jrue's fg% had a habit of dipping in the playoffs, Grayson wasnt shooting in Milwaukee like he has been in Phoenix this year, Connaughton is fine but he's obviously not Dame. They wanted to add some offensive firepower at guard for the post season, and in theory that's what theyve done.

There's really no point in judging anything theyve done until the playoffs. If theyre successful then nobody will care about any of this stuff going on now.

We'll see if it works out.

Maybe I see things differently that chemistry and culture still matter. That you need to build the culture that will get you through during the regular season.

What Bucks did is more the Miami Heat of 2011 thing.

[FultzNationRISE]

We'll see if it works out.

Maybe I see things differently that chemistry and culture still matter. That you need to build the culture that will get you through during the regular season.

What Bucks did is more the Miami Heat of 2011 thing.


Im not saying there arent issues right now that could remain problems in the playoffs. I agree Dame has not seemed really “engaged” in the season so far. And if that doesnt change by the playoffs they could be in trouble.

But until the playoffs happen, you cant really prove whether the gamble worked out or not. Thats the time they got him for. So theres no sense dubbing the move a failure until we see how it goes when it counts.

[Jasper]

Doc likely won't win a title there but in the few games he's coached Lillaird has either shot badly or not played 4 out of 5 nights. Rivers chose to accept this job so its not a case of him being set up but the two huge mistakes (firing Budenholzer and leaving Holiday loose for the Celtics) were made before he had anything to do with the team. Their organization deserves some criticism and I suspect they hired Doc because with all of the friends he has in the media they won't get looked at as harshly for their bad moves.

the hammer will come down , and Dame will have to pass up 10 ppg for defense.... that or he goes to the scrap yard as a has been/