Brian Windhorst: "if there's someone other than Tatum who has a shot at MVP is SGA"

[k0kakw0rld]

All because he's Canadian and not American, smh...

Two way player, one of Kobe's disciples, 31 ppg wiwithout a reliable 3pt shot.

He's my MVP SGA

[tontoz]

Las Vegas odds currently have him at +210, second only to Jokic.

[Axe]

Hopefully, sga leads the thunder to somewhere bet. the 4th-6th seed last year.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Nash has 2 MVPs. The idea that there is an anti Canadian bias is idiotic.

[ImKobe]

Tatum was 6th with ZERO first place votes in the latest ESPN MVP straw poll (10 days ago) while SGA was 2nd with 24 1st place votes (Giannis and Luka had 5 combined at #3 and #4). :lol .

Tatum's on a loaded ass team where he's not even the best Celtic on the floor in about half the games. You can't win an MVP doing that. SGA is arguably better on both ends of the court and he has better raw volume and also destroys JT in efficiency and his help isn't anywhere near as good and he's only 1.5 games out of the 1st seed.

The media does still love Jokic, but I think there's less & less people who want to give him 1st place votes this year, just because he's not on par with his previous seasons (worse team success + below his personal peak numbers) and because they want someone else to win. If the top 4 of the West standings end up the same as it is today I think this is SGA's MVP to lose.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Tatum's on a loaded ass team where he's not even the best Celtic on the floor in about half the games. You can't win an MVP doing that.
You can absolutely win MVP as the best player on the best team. Finishing this second part of the season strong Tatum can definitely be a factor in the MVP race.

[SATAN]

SGA deserves it more than Tatum.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Who the **** has Tatum as the MVP? Jokic is clearly MVP, followed by Luka and SGA.

Hilarious watching bums like Embiid and Tatum try to politic their way into MVP votes. Such a disgusting loser trait to have.

[FultzNationRISE]

Who the **** has Tatum as the MVP? Jokic is clearly MVP, followed by Luka and SGA.

Hilarious watching bums like Embiid and Tatum try to politic their way into MVP votes. Such a disgusting loser trait to have.

It is pretty cringe, Embiid at least has a legitimate claim to being the most valuable regular season player (before the injury obv). Altho I agree it looks very mentally weak to be publicly lobbying for it. I honestly don't have Tatum in the top 5. Tatum's case is purely about Boston's record, in other words giving Tatum credit somehow for Boston having the best roster.

[Axe]

SGA deserves it more than Tatum.
How 'bout Luka?

[FultzNationRISE]

How 'bout Luka?

41 tonight in a win against the Suns. 50% from 3, 7-7 FTs. 11 assists to go with it.

Dallas got healthier and better at the trade deadline. They could go on a run over the last couple months here.

Luka will have a definite claim to the award if they do.

[SATAN]

How 'bout Luka?

Would have averaged 19/7/6 in the 90s.

[ImKobe]

You can absolutely win MVP as the best player on the best team. Finishing this second part of the season strong Tatum can definitely be a factor in the MVP race.

You can, but in JT's case he's just not producing enough to be in the conversation atm. Celtics are a well-oiled machine and don't need him to be an MVP-level player to be the best team in the league, at least in the RS. In a way that's good for him as he's under less pressure and can save his legs for the POs.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You can, but in JT's case he's just not producing enough to be in the conversation atm. Celtics are a well-oiled machine and don't need him to be an MVP-level player to be the best team in the league, at least in the RS. In a way that's good for him as he's under less pressure and can save his legs for the POs.
The ESPN shows discuss him when the MVP topic comes up. He's not the favorite but by definition that is him being in the conversation.

[nayte]

Giannis should win it .

[90sgoat]

Mavs are on a 7 game winning streak.

If Luka makes it into the top 4 in the conference, then he deserves it.

[SATAN]

Giannis should win it .

Why?

[tontoz]

Mavs are on a 7 game winning streak.

If Luka makes it into the top 4 in the conference, then he deserves it.

Luka and Giannis are tied for 3rd in the Las Vegas odds.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Luka and Giannis are tied for 3rd in the Las Vegas odds.
It's about team more than individual numbers but Antetokuonmpo needs to do better at least as badly as Tatum. Given the preseason expectations they can't lose the East by 9 games and he still gets the award. Celtics have the most overall talent but I bet most mvp voters rate Lillaird over JB.

[ralph_i_el]

There is no argument for SGA over Luka.

OKC has been my favorite team all year, and SGA is one of my favorite players....but they have a great team around him right now. The Thunder are fabulously coached, and are maximizing their young talent right now. I'm not giving SGA a massive slice of the credit for their success. I've watched pretty much all their games this year, and they're getting positive contributions from almost every played minute. Every player who has played 200+ minutes for them has a positive +/- and the only drop off in impact among their major players is Cason Wallace, who is giving way more than expected and is playing out of position sometimes.

[tontoz]

There is no argument for SGA over Luka.

OKC has been my favorite team all year, and SGA is one of my favorite players....but they have a great team around him right now. The Thunder are fabulously coached, and are maximizing their young talent right now. I'm not giving SGA a massive slice of the credit for their success. I've watched pretty much all their games this year, and they're getting positive contributions from almost every played minute. Every player who has played 200+ minutes for them has a positive +/- and the only drop off in impact among their major players is Cason Wallace, who is giving way more than expected and is playing out of position sometimes.

Actually it is pretty easy to argue SGA over Luka. He is averaging 31 with a 65% TS. The only guy who has ever averaged over 30 with a 65% TS for a season is Steph. And Shai is a strong defender. Luka has been better on D this year but he is still probably below average.

OKC's other main guys are a rookie and a 2nd year player. Shai leads the league in win shares and win shares per 48.

He leads the team in +/- by a mile. Nobody is even close.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/okc-thunder-plus-minus-leaders

[ralph_i_el]

Actually it is pretty easy to argue SGA over Luka. He is averaging 31 with a 65% TS. The only guy who has ever averaged over 30 with a 65% TS for a season is Steph. And Shai is a strong defender. Luka has been better on D this year but he is still probably below average.

OKC's other main guys are a rookie and a 2nd year player. Shai leads the league in win shares and win shares per 48.

He leads the team in +/- by a mile. Nobody is even close.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/okc-thunder-plus-minus-leaders

The spacing and ball movement that SGA is working in is absolutely pristine. Like I said, I've watched almost all their games this year, because imo they play the best brand of ball right now. SGA has been amazing, but he hasn't had to do nearly as much as an individual as Luka does. SGA gets so many clean 1-on-1 looks with no help defense because the OKC shooting and movement paralyzes the defense.

I get that SGA has a crazy high on/off +/-, but his team is playing 0 +/- with him on the bench. I just pulled up Giannis, Luka, and Booker just to check...all 3 play for teams that were getting beat by a decent-to-significant margin when they sit. OKC plays teams evenly when SGA sits.

I give a lot of credit to Mark Daigneault.

[ralph_i_el]

OKC's other main guys are a rookie and a 2nd year player. Shai leads the league in win shares and win shares per 48.

He leads the team in +/- by a mile. Nobody is even close.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/okc-thunder-plus-minus-leaders


A "Rookie" generational talent defensive stretch-5, and a second year lefty big ballhandling wing that can defend and shoot. These are probably the two most difficult player archetypes to find in the entire league.

[tontoz]

A "Rookie" generational talent defensive stretch-5, and a second year lefty big ballhandling wing that can defend and shoot. These are probably the two most difficult player archetypes to find in the entire league.

I like both guys (so wizards drafting Johnny Davis over JWill :facepalm) but there is only one All-Star on the roster. Those two will probably be All-Stars in the future but aren't now.

Shai is the best player on the team by far. They have Josh Giddey starting who sucks. They seriously lack size and are actually starting JWill at the 4 even though he is a 2. They are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league (currently 28th).

[ralph_i_el]

I like both guys (so wizards drafting Johnny Davis over JWill :facepalm) but there is only one All-Star on the roster. Those two will probably be All-Stars in the future but aren't now.

Shai is the best player on the team by far. They have Josh Giddey starting who sucks. They seriously lack size and are actually starting JWill at the 4 even though he is a 2. They are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league (currently 28th).

All star games don't move me. I'd want Chet over KAT right now anyways.

I disagree that Giddey sucks. He's the next Boris Diaw :D

OKC doesn't give other teams weak points to attack on defense, or weak offensive players to slough off of. Even Giddey, who can't shoot, still keeps the pressure on the defense and the ball moving.

SGA gets so many situations where the floor is spread 5 out, all defenders are glued to their men, and he can just torture a guy over and over inside the arc. A lot goes into creating those looks.

[ralph_i_el]

I was thinking about how bad OKC is on the boards. They don't really go for orebounds, that's part of the gameplan. I think part of their weakness has been prioritizing length over strength in drafting.

[Xiao Yao You]

All star games don't move me. I'd want Chet over KAT right now anyways.

I disagree that Giddey sucks. He's the next Boris Diaw :D

OKC doesn't give other teams weak points to attack on defense, or weak offensive players to slough off of. Even Giddey, who can't shoot, still keeps the pressure on the defense and the ball moving.

SGA gets so many situations where the floor is spread 5 out, all defenders are glued to their men, and he can just torture a guy over and over inside the arc. A lot goes into creating those looks.

I imagine most in the NBA would take Chet over Towns ignoring their salaries.

[tontoz]

All star games don't move me. I'd want Chet over KAT right now anyways.

I disagree that Giddey sucks. He's the next Boris Diaw :D

OKC doesn't give other teams weak points to attack on defense, or weak offensive players to slough off of. Even Giddey, who can't shoot, still keeps the pressure on the defense and the ball moving.

SGA gets so many situations where the floor is spread 5 out, all defenders are glued to their men, and he can just torture a guy over and over inside the arc. A lot goes into creating those looks.

SGA was 1st team All-NBA last season without Chet and with a rookie Jalen who wasn't nearly as good. Las Vegas projected that team to win 26 games and they won 40 because SGA is that dude. Let's not pretend like he needs those two to excel.

BTW i was living in Atlanta when Diaw was there and he was awful. Painful to watch.

[Xiao Yao You]

SGA was 1st team All-NBA last season without Chet and with a rookie Jalen who wasn't nearly as good. Las Vegas projected that team to win 26 games and they won 40 because SGA is that dude. Let's not pretend like he needs those two to excel.

BTW i was living in Atlanta when Diaw was there and he was awful. Painful to watch.

liked the corpse of Diaw when he was here. Even his corpse was the 2nd best 4 Rudy ever had next to him in Utah other than the last legs of Joe Johnson the same year

[tontoz]

I was thinking about how bad OKC is on the boards. They don't really go for orebounds, that's part of the gameplan. I think part of their weakness has been prioritizing length over strength in drafting.

OKC is 29th in defensive rebounding percentage. That and their youth is why i don't consider them a threat to win a title.

[Xiao Yao You]

OKC is 29th in defensive rebounding percentage. That and their youth is why i don't consider them a threat to win a title.

their youth would be the main reason for me. Make some noise this year

[ralph_i_el]

SGA was 1st team All-NBA last season without Chet and with a rookie Jalen who wasn't nearly as good. Las Vegas projected that team to win 26 games and they won 40 because SGA is that dude. Let's not pretend like he needs those two to excel.

BTW i was living in Atlanta when Diaw was there and he was awful. Painful to watch.

Unmotivated Diaw was not very good. Motivated Diaw gave you a s eaky extra dimension. 2014 Diaw will forever be a legend to me.

Also, just a thought. On/off wouldn't capture Luka's impact because Kyrie is the lead ballhandler when he sits.

[ralph_i_el]

their youth would be the main reason for me. Make some noise this year

Yeah they definitely aren't my favorite to win. But they don't play like a young team (besides getting pushed around on the boards). They make really smart adjustments and play with savvy.

[tontoz]

Unmotivated Diaw was not very good. Motivated Diaw gave you a s eaky extra dimension. 2014 Diaw will forever be a legend to me.

Also, just a thought. On/off wouldn't capture Luka's impact because Kyrie is the lead ballhandler when he sits.


Kyrie missed 22 games.

On/off with a big sample size consistently captures an elite players impact.

[ralph_i_el]

Also, OKC leads the league in steals. If you steal the ball, there's no rebound to be had.

[ralph_i_el]

Kyrie missed 22 games.

On/off with a big sample size consistently captures and elite players impact.

Isaiah Joe and K. Will had higher on/off than sga last year:confusedshrug:

[tontoz]

Isaiah Joe and K. Will had higher on/off than sga last year:confusedshrug:

Comparing a starter to bench players isn't an apples to apples comparison. SGA isnt going to be in the game during garbage time.

SGA started the game next to Giddey who was awful, 2nd to last on the team.

[ralph_i_el]

Comparing a starter to bench players isn't an apples to apples comparison. SGA isnt going to be in the game during garbage time.

SGA started the game next to Giddey who was awful, 2nd to last on the team.

Giddey was handling the ball a lot when SGA sat. Giddey being bad makes SGA's on/off look better, and Giddey's look even worse (because it's relative).

[tontoz]

Giddey was handling the ball a lot when SGA sat. Giddey being bad makes SGA's on/off look better, and Giddey's look even worse (because it's relative).

Lol that makes no sense. They both started every half together so obviously they were playing a lot of minutes together. Same story with rookie JWill, he started and also had a lousy +/-.


SGA played 35 minutes per game last season. That doesn't leave many minutes for giddey/JWill to play without him.

The huge disparity between the numbers for SGA compared to Giddey just shows what a huge impact SGA had.

[90sgoat]

SGA had a good argument until Luka got his center and then promptly went on a 7-0 run.

I don't think anyone really thought Luka was not a winning player, but when he gets even very average big men like Gafford and PJ Washington and then goes on an almost 10 game winning streak, yeah, that says it all.

People don't recognise just how bad the Mavs frontcourt has been for years. Dwight Powell would struggle to get minutes on any other playoff team.

[fsvr54]

SGA had a good argument until Luka got his center and then promptly went on a 7-0 run.

I don't think anyone really thought Luka was not a winning player, but when he gets even very average big men like Gafford and PJ Washington and then goes on an almost 10 game winning streak, yeah, that says it all.

People don't recognise just how bad the Mavs frontcourt has been for years. Dwight Powell would struggle to get minutes on any other playoff team.

Well, with your point Gafford should be MVP, not Luka.

[SATAN]

Well, with your point Gafford should be MVP, not Luka.

This.

[kawhileonard2]

All because he's Canadian and not American, smh...

Two way player, one of Kobe's disciples, 31 ppg wiwithout a reliable 3pt shot.

He's my MVP SGA

Kawhi is frontrunner.