I agree with STAT on this (start, bench, cut Duncan/KG/Dirk)

[highwhey]

actually makes a good point for how the game is played today.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPbRg7qgK7c

[Im Still Ballin]

It comes down to who the rest of the players on the team are.

And I still think Duncan would be a better offensive player than KG, even in today's league. Kevin stretches the floor more but Tim dominates in the paint with rim and foul pressure. And defensively, rim protectors are still as valuable as ever and getting huge max contracts. Not to mention TD could switch out and defend the perimeter to a solid level when he was in his younger playing days.

The modern style of rim-running, dribble handoff actions, and cutting off off-screens is ideal for his offense. His post-up game would thrive against the mismatches caused by all the switching and cross-matches in transition. And when it comes down to the clutch where I don't need a 3 and a 50% shot with fouls drawn from the post is elite? I'm taking Timmy.

[RRR3]

It comes down to who the rest of the players on the team are.

And I still think Duncan would be a better offensive player than KG, even in today's league. Kevin stretches the floor more but Tim dominates in the paint with rim and foul pressure. And defensively, rim protectors are still as valuable as ever and getting huge max contracts. Not to mention TD could switch out and defend the perimeter to a solid level when he was in his younger playing days.

The modern style of rim-running, dribble handoff actions, and cutting off off-screens is ideal for his offense. His post-up game would thrive against all the mismatches caused by all the switching and cross-matches in transition. And when it comes down to the clutch where I don't need a 3 and a 50% shot with fouls drawn from the post is elite? I'm taking Timmy.
Duncan wasn't Shaq, his scoring is overrated. KG would 100% be a better offensive player in today's NBA.

[1987_Lakers]

No way I'm benching or cutting Duncan out of the 3.

KG might have had the defensive versatility, but he is the worst offensive player of the 3, his efficiency usually took a dip in the postseason because he didn't really have a post game. Duncan could bully you in the post, play a true big man game while providing high end rim protection on the other end.

Dirk vs KG really comes down to what type of team I have. If I already have a couple of all-star level players who could put the ball in the hoop on a consistent basis, give me KG. If I have a team with good defenders, but nobody is really a #1 scoring option give me Dirk.

I don't think the Celtics would be as good in 2008 if you swap KG with Dirk just like I don't think the Mavs win a title in 2011 if you swap Dirk with KG.

[1987_Lakers]

Duncan wasn't Shaq, his scoring is overrated. KG would 100% be a better offensive player in today's NBA.

He wasn't Shaq or peak Hakeem as a scorer, but his scoring was more dependable than KG's come playoff time.

[beasted]

Duncan wasn't Shaq, his scoring is overrated. KG would 100% be a better offensive player in today's NBA.

Are you suggesting KG's offense was better than Duncan? Or that KG's offense wasn't significantly worse enough to offset his defensive versatility?

[Im Still Ballin]

Stiff, old man Timmy Duncan showed us a little of what he could do in a protomodern offense. Over 51 playoff games from 2013-2015, he averaged 17.3 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.1 apg, 0.7 spg, and 1.4 bpg in 34.1 minutes per game and shooting 51% FG when removing heaves. 55.1% TS compared to a 2013-2015 league average of 53.67% TS. That's a 1.027 TS+. Would be like doing 60% TS today.

That's an incredibly large sample of playoff games against extremely tough opposition. The West was a murder's row during that period of time. OKC, LAC, Memphis, GSW, Portland, etc. Not to mention Miami in the Finals.

[Im Still Ballin]

Young Tim had seasons of 111 TS+ (2001-02), 110 TS+ (1998-99), and 109 TS+ (2002-03). Adjusted for today's league average (58.3% TS), that comes out to 64.7% TS, 64.1% TS, and 63.5% TS.

You put that guy in today's league and he'll hit those efficiency numbers while also giving you 25 ppg and prime Rudy Gobert-level rim protection.

[RRR3]

He wasn't Shaq or peak Hakeem as a scorer, but his scoring was more dependable than KG's come playoff time.
It was, but that was in a much different era. KG would shoot a lot of 3s now, it would give him more impact. Also could handle the ball and run the offense in a way Duncan couldn't. KG was built for today's league as a center. Duncan is more of a relic, although he'd still be great.

[RRR3]

Young Tim had seasons of 111 TS+ (2001-02), 110 TS+ (1998-99), and 109 TS+ (2002-03). Adjusted for today's league average (58.3% TS), that comes out to 64.7% TS, 64.1% TS, and 63.5% TS.

You put that guy in today's league and he'll hit those efficiency numbers while also giving you 25 ppg and prime Rudy Gobert-level rim protection.
You got to stop just giving guys who don't take 3s this boost for TS in different eras. Unless Duncan was being used like Gobert on offense, idk how great his efficiency would be. The only bigs who actually create for themselves and get to that level of efficiency are Jokic, Giannis and Embiid and Giannis and Embiid get an absurd amount of FTs to get there.

[Im Still Ballin]

You got to stop just giving guys who don't take 3s this boost for TS in different eras. Unless Duncan was being used like Gobert on offense, idk how great his efficiency would be. The only bigs who actually create for themselves and get to that level of efficiency are Jokic, Giannis and Embiid and Giannis and Embiid get an absurd amount of FTs to get there.

Anthony Davis been up around those numbers for the last two seasons. Consider that injuries interrupted last season greatly. He was doing like 29 ppg on 65% TS for large stretches before and sometime after the injuries. And that's with some pretty trash offensive spacing.

We can adjust Tim's 2pt% numbers instead of TS% if that makes you happy.

2001-02: 110 2PT+
2002-03: 112 2PT+
1998-99: 109 2PT+

2023-24 2PT% league average: 54.6%

2001-02 adjusted: 60.06% 2PT
2002-03 adjusted: 61.15% 2PT
1998-99 adjusted: 59.5% 2PT

His 2001-02 numbers go way up. From 25.5 ppg to 28.96 ppg. And his efficiency goes up to 65.7% TS.

I can do the numbers for the others but they'll look more drastic than the TS+ adjustments. Your mistake is thinking the increase in TS%/ORtg is only due to the increase in three-point shooting. It's not. It's never been easier for big men to get easy buckets inside, at the rim.

Prime Tim was big, mobile, and skilled; he would thrive as a pick-and-roll, face-up guy attacking the basket. He wouldn't post up as much but he'd face more mismatches there and would thrive in the clutch.