Chet vs VW today - Spurs rare win (Chet still Rookie of the Year?)

[oldtimer28]

Great matchup Chet v VW today.

For the game, both played well but VW was dominant and got a rare win.

Chet 23, 7, 5 with 1 block
VW 28, 13, 7 with 5 blocks and 2 steals (plus looked dominant)


For the season, I still go with Chet for rookie of the year but I know many will flip to VW.

I prefer Chet for efficiency and impact on wins.

Before Chet - 40 and 42 (.488 %)
After - 41 - 18 (.695 %)

Before VW - 22 and 60 (.268 %)
After 12 - 48 (0.200%)


The only major change for each team was Chet and VW. OKC are much better. Spurs are worse on record.

However, obviously VW is looking great and Spurs will improve once they retire their over the hill coach and GM.

[iamgine]

Nah it's been clear for a couple months that Wemby is ROY.

Also, major changes for OKC has been Shai and JW improving a ton, as they should.

[FultzNationRISE]

If it’s a toss up by the end of the year I think you gotta go with the guy who was more consistent throughout. Yama slumped for a while after a strong initial debut, while Chet has been steady across the board. I think thats a big thing working in both his and SGA’s favor for their respective award candidacies, that theyve been very consistent night in and night out. Would also be cool to see them win the awards as teammates, not that voters should actually be considering that.

[ImKobe]

Wemby been a favorite since mid-January (he's sitting at -1350 to win ROTY on fanduel right now). He's leading rookies in everything but APG, and he's also top 5 in that category. He's shooting 59%TS since Jan 1st while averaging 23 a game to go along with his consistent rebounding & defense. Wemby has been insanely consistent over the last 2 months so the only argument left for Chet is that he's on a winning team, but I don't think being a role player on a winning team is enough to be ROTY over the guy who's doing everything and who's putting up better numbers across the board in less minutes.

[Axe]

That giraffe named wemby pawned that ostrich named chet this time.

[Xiao Yao You]

Wemby been a favorite since mid-January (he's sitting at -1350 to win ROTY on fanduel right now). He's leading rookies in everything but APG, and he's also top 5 in that category. He's shooting 59%TS since Jan 1st while averaging 23 a game to go along with his consistent rebounding & defense. Wemby has been insanely consistent over the last 2 months so the only argument left for Chet is that he's on a winning team, but I don't think being a role player on a winning team is enough to be ROTY over the guy who's doing everything and who's putting up better numbers across the board in less minutes.

Only argument other than better advanced numbers and team impact :lol

[Kblaze8855]

Chet was never rookie of the year. Not only is Wemby leading rookies in practically everything there is the “Let’s not look like idiots one day” factor where nobody wants to be in a documentary explaining why they didn’t vote for one of the greatest players of all time who clearly had the best rookie season.

Losing games on a team that would be stupid to win any games isn’t going to determine the outcome. They are clearly a couple pieces away. Being mediocre right now is the dumbest thing they could do as a franchise. They need to be terrible even if there aren’t guaranteed great prospects available, because they need to give themselves the best opportunity to evaluate everyone and find him a running mate.

Ideally, they would still suck next year as well. The thunder are SGA(clippers lottery pick) And three other lottery picks coming into their primes together. It takes a minute and three or four hits. They have two right now. They shouldn’t be worried about having a good record till they figure out who is going to be getting him the ball for the next 10-15 years.

[tontoz]

I would say Chet was better prior to Jan 1 but since then Wemby has been better. In Jan Wemby averaged 24 ppg compared to 15 for Chet, with better efficiency. Wemby highlights have been featured night after night on the post game shows. If he keeps playing like this he probably gets it.

Lets be real the ROY is not a very significant award anyway.

[rawimpact]

If we have historically looked at team records for individual accomplishments for whatever reason (MVP award), same should be said for the ROY award.

Spurs are 12-48
OKC are 41-18

As close as the two are, that record difference has to mean something

[Kblaze8855]

As close as the two are, that record difference has to mean something



It doesn’t and shouldn’t. And I think the voters will make it clear they didn’t care. One franchise is making an effort to win. The other is making an effort to rebuild. There is literally no reason for the Spurs to win a game. The Thunder are trying to win a title.

[tontoz]

It doesn’t and shouldn’t. And I think the voters will make it clear they didn’t care. One franchise is making an effort to win. The other is making an effort to rebuild. There is literally no reason for the Spurs to win a game. The Thunder are trying to win a title.

The Spurs obviously didn't get the memo considering they beat OKC last night :lol

[Wardell Curry]

The Spurs obviously didn't get the memo considering they beat OKC last night :lol

The Spurs are likely locked into the seed that they are currently in for the purposes of the lottery.

Detroit and Washington likely aren't catching them and they likely aren't catching Portland or Charlotte.

[r0drig0lac]

Wemby is so many levels better as a player that this "race" is a joke.

[rawimpact]

It doesn’t and shouldn’t. And I think the voters will make it clear they didn’t care. One franchise is making an effort to win. The other is making an effort to rebuild. There is literally no reason for the Spurs to win a game. The Thunder are trying to win a title.

While I agree that should be the case, people do take team record into consideration.

MVP to Nash is the most blatant example.

[Xiao Yao You]

While I agree that should be the case, people do take team record into consideration.

MVP to Nash is the most blatant example.

for ROTY they don't. Rookies are usually on bad teams. If it's close they might

[Kblaze8855]

The Spurs obviously didn't get the memo considering they beat OKC last night :lol

well, it would be unrealistic to win no games. But I doubt anybody above the player level is stupid enough to think it’s in their best interest. It’s like the NFL. You can’t tell players to tank. But you can take action to minimize the chance that you win a lot. Subtle difference but we all made peace with it long ago. The players will never just…want to lose. Players don’t care about some kid coming to take one of their jobs.

[tpols]

Wemby should be ROTY because he is the best but the odds are ridiculous. -1350 for Wemby and +1000 for Chet. Those are landslide odds like a pro team facing a college team or something. The marketing machine is behind wembanyama.

[Kblaze8855]

Wemby should be ROTY because he is the best but the odds are ridiculous. -1350 for Wemby and +1000 for Chet. Those are landslide odds like a pro team facing a college team or something. The marketing machine is behind wembanyama.

that isn’t what odds are. They’re predicting who is gonna win And setting odds for the purposes Of not losing money on the bets. If he’s obviously going to win, you should make him a giant favorite, even if he’s going to win by barely being better by a decisive majority of voters. Most of the votes thinking you’re a little better makes you an incredibly obvious favorite. It doesn’t mean all the voters think it isn’t even close.

[tpols]

that isn’t what odds are. They’re predicting who is gonna win And setting odds for the purposes Of not losing money on the bets. If he’s obviously going to win, you should make him a giant favorite, even if he’s going to win by barely being better by a decisive majority of voters. Most of the votes thinking you’re a little better makes you an incredibly obvious favorite. It doesn’t mean all the voters think it isn’t even close.

You don't think I know what odds are? I've been studying them for years. Even if their productions are similar everybody knows the NBA marketing machine is behind wembanyama way more than boring Chet and its pretty much impossible for him to not win it. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it.

[Kblaze8855]

When comparing odds between an obvious award winner, and an athletic competition between different levels it feels like you don’t know what odds are nor their function.

when one guy should obviously win, barring some unforeseeable incident or injury you should make him a giant favorite. Has nothing to do with any hype machine or the merits of the argument. It’s about not losing money.

[ShawkFactory]

You don't think I know what odds are? I've been studying them for years. Even if their productions are similar everybody knows the NBA marketing machine is behind wembanyama way more than boring Chet and its pretty much impossible for him to not win it. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it.

So you think Chet deserves it then?

[tpols]

So you think Chet deserves it then?

They have similar volume but Chets advanced metrics are far superior. He's producing on 124 ORTG with a huge positive differential split while Wemby is producing @ a paltry 104 ORTG and a negative differential.

Now when I factor in situation wembys is obviously much tougher so we have to take it with a grain of salt... because his talent is unreal and I can see based off that alone he is the favorite.

But to be a totally dominant favorite like that? Nah... it's clear the NBA marketing machine has influenced the general public to think it aint close but in reality on the court performance Chet has been better and he's done it on a top seeded team.

[Wardell Curry]

It's not really close. If they switched teams mid season, that would become abundantly clear to posters that hold your position.

[RRR3]

It's not really close. If they switched teams mid season, that would become abundantly clear to posters that hold your position.
No surprise it’s infamous ISH Dimbulbs who can’t understand context like Xiao and Tpols arguing for Chet.

[tpols]

I'm looking at OKCs roster from last year when they were the 10 seed aka borderline lotto. They have all the same players ~ SGA, Jalen, Giddy, Dort etc. This year Chet starts and there a 2 seed almost a 1 seed in a brutal West.

The only difference in their team is Chet joining. He obviously has unreal impact. Extreme efficiency and he plays defense. Saying it's not close is absurd but I understand why when it's obvious the money machine is behind wemby.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm looking at OKCs roster from last year when they were the 10 seed aka borderline lotto. They have all the same players ~ SGA, Jalen, Giddy, Dort etc. This year Chet starts and there a 2 seed almost a 1 seed in a brutal West.

The only difference in their team is Chet joining. He obviously has unreal impact. Extreme efficiency and he plays defense. Saying it's not close is absurd but I understand why when it's obvious the money machine is behind wemby.

Chet joining and young guys improving. Jalen is a lot better player this year

[tontoz]

I'm looking at OKCs roster from last year when they were the 10 seed aka borderline lotto. They have all the same players ~ SGA, Jalen, Giddy, Dort etc. This year Chet starts and there a 2 seed almost a 1 seed in a brutal West.

The only difference in their team is Chet joining. He obviously has unreal impact. Extreme efficiency and he plays defense. Saying it's not close is absurd but I understand why when it's obvious the money machine is behind wemby.


To be fair Jalen was not the same player last year as a rookie.

[FultzNationRISE]

It *should* come down to the next month and a half.

Wemby’s hot right now and people are calling him the GOAT. He was cold two months ago and people were writing him off.

Nobody has any patience or perspective. He was nowhere near as bad as some were saying when his numbers were down, and his recent numbers could also prove to be a bit of an outlier. Or maybe theyre here to stay.

Let’s let it play out. If he keeps up this same level for the remainder of the season he should have it in the bag. If he cools off it might well go to Chet for being consistent the whole year with more pressure/expectations due to starting on a team playing for something.

People talk like every moment is the only moment that ever happened. Newsflash: Theres a past and a future to consider as well. Sit tight and see how the rest of the season goes.

[ShawkFactory]

They have similar volume but Chets advanced metrics are far superior. He's producing on 124 ORTG with a huge positive differential split while Wemby is producing @ a paltry 104 ORTG and a negative differential.

Now when I factor in situation wembys is obviously much tougher so we have to take it with a grain of salt... because his talent is unreal and I can see based off that alone he is the favorite.

But to be a totally dominant favorite like that? Nah... it's clear the NBA marketing machine has influenced the general public to think it aint close but in reality on the court performance Chet has been better and he's done it on a top seeded team.

Bet on Chet then.

[ImKobe]

I'm looking at OKCs roster from last year when they were the 10 seed aka borderline lotto. They have all the same players ~ SGA, Jalen, Giddy, Dort etc. This year Chet starts and there a 2 seed almost a 1 seed in a brutal West.

The only difference in their team is Chet joining. He obviously has unreal impact. Extreme efficiency and he plays defense. Saying it's not close is absurd but I understand why when it's obvious the money machine is behind wemby.

That's not true lol. They've definitely changed their bench + SGA and Jalen Williams upped their 3PT efficiency by a significant margin. Chet obviously helps a lot too but you don't give a 3rd option the ROTY over the guy who's playing like a superstar because of team success. This is not the MVP award. If they both played in the same role and put up similar numbers then sure, I could agree with what you and the Toody stan are saying, but that's not the case.

[CurryOverLebron]

https://i.ibb.co/r5Zr0j7/aa1.jpg

[AlternativeAcc.]

I defer to Xia on this one.

Advanced analytics? According to him they back up Chet.

[AlternativeAcc.]

https://i.ibb.co/r5Zr0j7/aa1.jpg

Wembys championship while the Thunder enjoy a top seed

Very nice. Glad he could lead them to their 12th win on the season

[RRR3]

Me and ImKobe gonna be on the same side once LeBron retires I just realized. Wemby uniting everyone besides the completely hopeless morons :cheers:

[tpols]

Bet on Chet then.

Who would bet on a pre-determined outcome?

I can show you all the advanced metrics that have Chet above Wemby. I can show you the dramatic team success difference taking a 10 seed to a 2 and potentially 1 seed.

It doesn't matter because it's a popularity voting contest with no objective backing. So if I did bet on anybody it would be the popular guy but at -1000 or worse odds the payout isn't even remotely worth the risk with the only risk being wemby getting hurt.

[Xiao Yao You]

I defer to Xia on this one.

Advanced analytics? According to him they back up Chet.

going to be a tough sell on ISH. ISH is more into hype

[ShawkFactory]

Who would bet on a pre-determined outcome?

I can show you all the advanced metrics that have Chet above Wemby. I can show you the dramatic team success difference taking a 10 seed to a 2 and potentially 1 seed.

It doesn't matter because it's a popularity voting contest with no objective backing. So if I did bet on anybody it would be the popular guy but at -1000 or worse odds the payout isn't even remotely worth the risk with the only risk being wemby getting hurt.

It seems like others have the same feeling. Which is why the odds are as skewed as they are.

[oldtimer28]

If we have historically looked at team records for individual accomplishments for whatever reason (MVP award), same should be said for the ROY award.

Spurs are 12-48
OKC are 41-18

As close as the two are, that record difference has to mean something

Agree, plus like I wrote, based on record, Chet's team improved with him. VW's team got worse.

Both teams have the same main players as the year before.

SGA and Jalen were good last year too. Giddey was better last year.

[oldtimer28]

It *should* come down to the next month and a half.

Wemby’s hot right now and people are calling him the GOAT. He was cold two months ago and people were writing him off.

Nobody has any patience or perspective. He was nowhere near as bad as some were saying when his numbers were down, and his recent numbers could also prove to be a bit of an outlier. Or maybe theyre here to stay.

Let’s let it play out. If he keeps up this same level for the remainder of the season he should have it in the bag. If he cools off it might well go to Chet for being consistent the whole year with more pressure/expectations due to starting on a team playing for something.

People talk like every moment is the only moment that ever happened. Newsflash: Theres a past and a future to consider as well. Sit tight and see how the rest of the season goes.



good post. Agree with all, except my vote still goes to Chet as of today.

We'll see what happens. If the momentum remains, I would vote Co rookies.

To vote VW, they would need a major winning streak of meaningful games. Have to improve record from last year for me.

[oldtimer28]

That's not true lol. They've definitely changed their bench + SGA and Jalen Williams upped their 3PT efficiency by a significant margin. Chet obviously helps a lot too but you don't give a 3rd option the ROTY over the guy who's playing like a superstar because of team success. This is not the MVP award. If they both played in the same role and put up similar numbers then sure, I could agree with what you and the Toody stan are saying, but that's not the case.

it's clear you and other posters have VW derangement syndrome. He is ok without you making up nonsense to defend him. OKC is largely the same team as last year. Using your own opinion, Why do you think SGA and Jalen are playing better this year? Probably Chet impact. I think they are playing the same except for Chet impact. They played very well last year individually but you only hear about them because of their great record with Chet.

VW really has empty stats without wins. Fun to watch him play though. Yesterday, he hit his 3s and dominated as his team hit open shots. If they win, I would consider VW a ROY or superstar but he is potential with empty stats now.

[SATAN]

You love Chet because he is white. We get it.

Spurs front office is now questioning if they should get Wemby help now rather than keep tanking for draft picks. So what do these advanced stats look like when Wemby is playing on a better team with a better supporting cast? Victor is a better player than Chet. Period. You are retarded to say otherwise. Morons wondering why a tanking team hasn't won more games. Get outta here.

[ImKobe]

Me and ImKobe gonna be on the same side once LeBron retires I just realized. Wemby uniting everyone besides the completely hopeless morons :cheers:

Depends. I think his hype currently is justified and he's easily the better rookie, but I'm not gonna be rooting for the Spurs to win shit when it comes down to it.


it's clear you and other posters have VW derangement syndrome. He is ok without you making up nonsense to defend him. OKC is largely the same team as last year. Using your own opinion, Why do you think SGA and Jalen are playing better this year? Probably Chet impact. I think they are playing the same except for Chet impact. They played very well last year individually but you only hear about them because of their great record with Chet.

VW really has empty stats without wins. Fun to watch him play though. Yesterday, he hit his 3s and dominated as his team hit open shots. If they win, I would consider VW a ROY or superstar but he is potential with empty stats now.

So player improvement is now credited to a rookie 3rd option :oldlol: , like Jalen Williams wouldn't have improved in his 2nd season without him, right? They added more role players and rookies who are also shooting lights out from 3 off the bench without Chet on the floor, but I think we also need to give him credit for that. I'm sure he just inspired everyone (even the new players & rookies like Cason Wallace) to shoot lights out from 3.

Chet's On/Off numbers are not that great (+1.7 Net Rating), they're still scoring and defending at a similar rate when he's on the bench. His impact on D is definitely there IMO but now we're giving a 3rd option all the credit for team success which is fking stupid.

[Kblaze8855]

Rarely do fans of sports look more foolish than acting like people on good teams are inherently better than people on bad teams, as if a franchise being incentivized to lose has nothing to do with it. The thunder a play in team that rounded into form and only missed being in the playoffs outright because of a late losing streak when SGA was out. They had the runner-up rookie of the year who is like 19 or 20 and has improved the way virtually all such players do. They also add Chet to this natural progression and are improved as they should be. The entire core of that team is set. They have no more incentive to lose. Theyre good on schedule to be good or at best a year ahead of it like the Kings last year or Memphis.

The Spurs would be total idiots to even attempt to be .500. They won 22 games last year and were rewarded with one of the greatest prospects in basketball history. Will one of you people talking about empty stats please tell me what anyone in that organization gains by winning games right now? Why would Pop be making decisions to win games? Why would the front office or ownership be pushing to win games? You think they’re watching games legitimately wondering what the problem is?

You’re on here acting like he would be personally more impressive if his franchise were being ****ing idiots.

He’s been individually judged by his franchise not being stupid enough to push for irrelevant wins that make the rebuild harder. A team that does not have its full core of the future would be idiots to push for mediocrity. They are out there ****ing around because the franchise has zero reason to do anything but **** around.

this isn’t 1998. They don’t have David Robinson to add to the star rookie after the clear tank. They still need to draft his other guy. And maybe his other other guy depending on chemistry issues.

The ideal outcome for this team is to get two more lottery picks, then concern themselves with winning. You can’t really evaluate if people on teams trying to suck are winners or not.

[tontoz]

When comparing great players, does anyone ever bring up the ROY award? Of course not. It just isn't that important.

The important things are that both guys have been healthy and look really good. Playing in the same conference this could end up being a long term rivalry which the league could really benefit from.

[oldtimer28]

Rarely do fans of sports look more foolish than acting like people on good teams are inherently better than people on bad teams, as if a franchise being incentivized to lose has nothing to do with it. The thunder a play in team that rounded into form and only missed being in the playoffs outright because of a late losing streak when SGA was out. They had the runner-up rookie of the year who is like 19 or 20 and has improved the way virtually all such players do. They also add Chet to this natural progression and are improved as they should be. The entire core of that team is set. They have no more incentive to lose. Theyre good on schedule to be good or at best a year ahead of it like the Kings last year or Memphis.

The Spurs would be total idiots to even attempt to be .500. They won 22 games last year and were rewarded with one of the greatest prospects in basketball history. Will one of you people talking about empty stats please tell me what anyone in that organization gains by winning games right now? Why would Pop be making decisions to win games? Why would the front office or ownership be pushing to win games? You think they’re watching games legitimately wondering what the problem is?

You’re on here acting like he would be personally more impressive if his franchise were being ****ing idiots.

He’s been individually judged by his franchise not being stupid enough to push for irrelevant wins that make the rebuild harder. A team that does not have its full core of the future would be idiots to push for mediocrity. They are out there ****ing around because the franchise has zero reason to do anything but **** around.

this isn’t 1998. They don’t have David Robinson to add to the star rookie after the clear tank. They still need to draft his other guy. And maybe his other other guy depending on chemistry issues.

The ideal outcome for this team is to get two more lottery picks, then concern themselves with winning. You can’t really evaluate if people on teams trying to suck are winners or not.


So you are saying that winning doesn't matter?

'Rarely do fans of sports look more foolish than acting like people on good teams are inherently better than people on bad teams, as if a franchise being incentivized to lose has nothing to do with it.'

Again, VW has great potential but his poor fg%, shot selection, and turnovers is why Spurs have a worse record - not some master plan.

He is clearly trying to win.

His contribution to winning on the court is by far less than Chet.

You posters can hiss about it but the facts remain like my original post.

Spurs, worse record with VW
Thunder, much better record with Chet.

Yes, Chet gets a lot of the credit for the improvement. It is deserved. The other change closest to major is Cason Wallace - a bench player with 20 minutes a game.

Otherwise, most players are the same except Dort and Giddey are scoring and playing less. SGA and Jalen are about the same (Jalen shooting better from 3) and SGA slightly higher statistics except scoring.

Coach same.

Most players in rotation the same.

You all not giving Chet credit for the team's improvements have failed. Be better. At least I am honest. VW has great potential. He will learn and play better with a good PG.

For now, he is not ROY to me. He is not an all star. He could be MVP in the future though.

[Carbine]

^ Remember when the Warriors didn't even make the playoffs the year before they won a title?

Only major differences was Klay coming back and Oubre out for Porter.

If you're going to attribute Chet with all this additional success, what do we make of this Klay scenario?

[SATAN]

You are an utter moron, oldtimer.

[Axe]

^ Remember when the Warriors didn't even make the playoffs the year before they won a title?

Only major differences was Klay coming back and Oubre out for Porter.

If you're going to attribute Chet with all this additional success, what do we make of this Klay scenario?
Yep. They couldn't even win any play-in games without klay, despite having a winning record three years ago. :ohwell:

[oldtimer28]

^ Remember when the Warriors didn't even make the playoffs the year before they won a title?

Only major differences was Klay coming back and Oubre out for Porter.

If you're going to attribute Chet with all this additional success, what do we make of this Klay scenario?

Completely off topic. Try answering my questions instead of trying to hide by asking your own irrelevant questions. The two scenarios are not comparable.

Try watching some OKC games this year and last before giving your opinion.

[r0drig0lac]

His contribution to winning on the court is by far less than Chet.


:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

So you are saying that winning doesn't matter?



In the case of the 2024 Spurs? Yes, that's exactly what he's saying.

[Kblaze8855]

You are an utter moron, oldtimer.


It’s rare for someone to immediately prove they aren’t worth talking to. It usually takes 5-10 years for me to just ignore someone. He got there in like 3 posts.

[tpols]

^ Remember when the Warriors didn't even make the playoffs the year before they won a title?

Only major differences was Klay coming back and Oubre out for Porter.

If you're going to attribute Chet with all this additional success, what do we make of this Klay scenario?

Klay only played 32 games in 2022 so that doesn't really add up. Ironically it was Poole who had the best season of his career and better than Klay in the playoffs and regular season.

[oldtimer28]

It’s rare for someone to immediately prove they aren’t worth talking to. It usually takes 5-10 years for me to just ignore someone. He got there in like 3 posts.

What is this you fat loser.

I was respectful to you. You may not agree but i never said anything disrespectful to you until this post by you.

You are now on ignore like all the other trolls.

You should focus on losing weight instead of insulting me.

[tontoz]

Listening to the Zach Lowe podcast right now. His take is the same as mine. He had Chet ahead after the first 30 games but now has Wemby ahead decisively due to his continued improvement.

I have been surprised how much game Wemby has off the dribble/playmaking.

[RRR3]

Listening to the Zach Lowe podcast right now. His take is the same as mine. He had Chet ahead after the first 30 games but now has Wemby ahead decisively due to his continued improvement.

I have been surprised how much game Wemby has off the dribble/playmaking.
There is literally nothing he can’t do. At 7’4. It’s absurd. His only real weakness right now is turnovers. He’s going to be an absurdly dominant player in his prime.

[SATAN]

There is literally nothing he can’t do.

Score 40,000 points? :bowdown:

[tontoz]

Watching the Indy game right now. Wemby definitely on the opposite end of the spectrum from Duncan in terms of style. Duncan was a bland, meat and potatoes guy. Wemby has some hot sauce to his game.

[ShawkFactory]

Watching the Indy game right now. Wemby definitely on the opposite end of the spectrum from Duncan in terms of style. Duncan was a bland, meat and potatoes guy. Wemby has some hot sauce to his game.

Meat and potatoes for Duncan is too harsh. He was more like a perfectly done plate of classic BBQ. Nothing particularly inventive or crazy but hits every time.

[rawimpact]

Rarely do fans of sports look more foolish than acting like people on good teams are inherently better than people on bad teams, as if a franchise being incentivized to lose has nothing to do with it. The thunder a play in team that rounded into form and only missed being in the playoffs outright because of a late losing streak when SGA was out. They had the runner-up rookie of the year who is like 19 or 20 and has improved the way virtually all such players do. They also add Chet to this natural progression and are improved as they should be. The entire core of that team is set. They have no more incentive to lose. Theyre good on schedule to be good or at best a year ahead of it like the Kings last year or Memphis.

The Spurs would be total idiots to even attempt to be .500. They won 22 games last year and were rewarded with one of the greatest prospects in basketball history. Will one of you people talking about empty stats please tell me what anyone in that organization gains by winning games right now? Why would Pop be making decisions to win games? Why would the front office or ownership be pushing to win games? You think they’re watching games legitimately wondering what the problem is?

You’re on here acting like he would be personally more impressive if his franchise were being ****ing idiots.

He’s been individually judged by his franchise not being stupid enough to push for irrelevant wins that make the rebuild harder. A team that does not have its full core of the future would be idiots to push for mediocrity. They are out there ****ing around because the franchise has zero reason to do anything but **** around.

this isn’t 1998. They don’t have David Robinson to add to the star rookie after the clear tank. They still need to draft his other guy. And maybe his other other guy depending on chemistry issues.

The ideal outcome for this team is to get two more lottery picks, then concern themselves with winning. You can’t really evaluate if people on teams trying to suck are winners or not.


What? No one is questioning the spurs would benefit from a losing record, that is quite obvious the way the lottery is setup.

However, you don't reward a team that is proactively tanking by giving its players who are participating in it the benefit over others that are part of a team trying to win nightly. OKC as far as I know has their own 2025 pick... they too would have benefited from tanking for a higher pick no? Unless of course you are thinking they are contenders for the ring, but i'm sure you're not trolling to that extent, are you?

There is something called playing down to one's competition but the opposite is inherently true as well. Being a more competitive teams brings out the competitiveness of opposing teams. That said Chet's numbers on a winning team is significantly more impressive.

[Manny98]

Chet elevated OKC from barely play in to the best team in the West

Spurs went from the worst team in the West to still the worst team in the West

Emptyyama just doesn't impact the game in any way, he goes out there puts up some pretty stat lines and fools the casual fans into thinking he's a generational talent

His ceiling is Porzinigis 2.0 but nothing more

[tontoz]

What? No one is questioning the spurs would benefit from a losing record, that is quite obvious the way the lottery is setup.

However, you don't reward a team that is proactively tanking by giving its players who are participating in it the benefit over others that are part of a team trying to win nightly. OKC as far as I know has their own 2025 pick... they too would have benefited from tanking for a higher pick no? Unless of course you are thinking they are contenders for the ring, but i'm sure you're not trolling to that extent, are you?

There is something called playing down to one's competition but the opposite is inherently true as well. Being a more competitive teams brings out the competitiveness of opposing teams. That said Chet's numbers on a winning team is significantly more impressive.


Wemby's weakness early on was his shot but that hasn't been the case lately. Since Jan 1 he is shooting 38% from 3 and mid 80s from the foul line.

Wemby's usage rate is extremely high for a rookie (actually 8th in the league) and he is handling it very well. His scoring efficiency has been improving and he's shown a lot of playmaking ability. Of course he's been great defensively.

I would also say he is one of the league leaders in "oh sh**" highlights which will probably have an influence in the voting.

Once again i would point out that this award isn't very important. Nobody cares who won it 5,10, 20 years ago. It is rarely brought up.

[RachlNicholsazz]

Once again i would point out that this award isn't very important. Nobody cares who won it 5,10, 20 years ago. It is rarely brought up.

Other than Carmelo getting outright robbed of ROY because of the Lebron hype train. Equal, if not slightly better stats, turned around a 17 win team to a 45 win team going to the postseason in a strong Western Conference while Lebron struggled in the Leastern Conference

[Xiao Yao You]

Other than Carmelo getting outright robbed of ROY because of the Lebron hype train. Equal, if not slightly better stats, turned around a 17 win team to a 45 win team going to the postseason in a strong Western Conference while Lebron struggled in the Leastern Conference

turned a team around with the additions of Camby and Miller. But way to go Carmelo doing it all by yourself! :facepalm

[RachlNicholsazz]

turned a team around with the additions of Camby and Miller. But way to go Carmelo doing it all by yourself! :facepalm

It's not like Melo had an all star in his prime playing alongside him like Lebron did with Big Z, plus Ricky Davis, and the surprise of the draft Carlos Boozer, in a pathetically weak conference. Melo.was by far the best player on that Nuggets team as a rookie. LeBron on his underperforming team wasn't head or shoulders over Boozer or Big Z. LeBron ROBBED Melo of rookie of the year. Similar stats, but in a much tougher conference, led a team with a much better record, won almost 30 more games than the previous year AND made the postseason. Melo was ROY the year HANDS DOWN. :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

It's not like Melo had an all star in his prime playing alongside him like Lebron did with Big Z, plus Ricky Davis, and the surprise of the draft Carlos Boozer, in a pathetically weak conference. Melo.was by far the best player on that Nuggets team as a rookie. LeBron on his underperforming team wasn't head or shoulders over Boozer or Big Z. LeBron ROBBED Melo of rookie of the year. Similar stats, but in a much tougher conference, led a team with a much better record, won almost 30 more games than the previous year AND made the postseason. Melo was ROY the year HANDS DOWN. :facepalm

Advanced stats tell a different story. He scored a lot of points and Andre got a lot of assists while Camby's advanced numbers would tell me had the biggest impact on winning. 6th in Def +/- 11th def rating 5th reb %. Carmelo certainly liked to think he was doing it by himself though!

[tontoz]

It's not like Melo had an all star in his prime playing alongside him like Lebron did with Big Z, plus Ricky Davis, and the surprise of the draft Carlos Boozer, in a pathetically weak conference. Melo.was by far the best player on that Nuggets team as a rookie. LeBron on his underperforming team wasn't head or shoulders over Boozer or Big Z. LeBron ROBBED Melo of rookie of the year. Similar stats, but in a much tougher conference, led a team with a much better record, won almost 30 more games than the previous year AND made the postseason. Melo was ROY the year HANDS DOWN. :facepalm



ROY really doesn't matter to a guy who made the All Star game 10 times.

[Kblaze8855]

However, you don't reward a team that is proactively tanking by giving its players who are participating in it the benefit over others that are part of a team trying to win nightly. OKC as far as I know has their own 2025 pick... they too would have benefited from tanking for a higher pick no? Unless of course you are thinking they are contenders for the ring, but i'm sure you're not trolling to that extent, are you?




as far as the start of that, obviously people are going to give the award to the guy on the team not trying to win and just about everybody has come around to the fact that they should. Acknowledging the best player isn’t an award for the team. It’s not rewarding anything about the Spurs. it’s telling the truth about what your eyes show you.

and the thunder have the best record in the west, and on pace for 57 wins. They are well past the point they should be tanking. They past it last year when they were too good to lose. Play in teams have to go full rebuild or suffer some kinda misfortune to be bad enough to bother. They have too many high picks as it is. You can only even afford to pay so many if they hit on them. big picture wise the thunder picks are better off traded for established guys as they enter win now mode. They have their three stars for the future already. Tanking now is just wasting what you have.

The Spurs only one one player who matters.

[tontoz]

Listening to the Zach Lowe podcast now talking about the Spurs. The trio of Wemby/Jones/Vassell have played 625 minutes together. In that time they are +154.

[Xiao Yao You]

Listening to the Zach Lowe podcast now talking about the Spurs. The trio of Wemby/Jones/Vassell have played 625 minutes together. In that time they are +154.

but I thought everyone on his team was trash?