Is Grayson Allen better than Bradley Beal?

[tpols]

It seems every time I check out a Suns game Grayson has gone off. And he apparently is the best 3pt shooter in the league right now and he is the best defender on his team.

https://i.postimg.cc/SNYn3Lrw/Screenshot-20240306-100036-Chrome.jpg

Am I tripping or is Grayson better than Beal?

[ShawkFactory]

In a vacuum, no. He’s a better fit alongside KD and Booker though.

For a 3rd option to thrive alongside 2 stars they need to be an elite shooter and Grayson provides that at a level that Beal can’t.

If you’re starting a team from scratch then you’re probably going Beal.

[tpols]

In a vacuum, no. He’s a better fit alongside KD and Booker though.

For a 3rd option to thrive alongside 2 stars they need to be an elite shooter and Grayson provides that at a level that Beal can’t.

If you’re starting a team from scratch then you’re probably going Beal.

Wizards Beal definitely had more talent but it seems he's getting too many shots attempts now for what he produces. Inefficient and plays no D. How is that valuable?

[ImKobe]

This season? Absolutely. He's been available for one, and he's much more efficient in his role.

[warriorfan]

remember there were posters here that said bradly beal’s contract wasn’t bad

lol

[tpols]

This season? Absolutely. He's been available for one, and he's much more efficient in his role.

I guess... 130 ORTG is crazy. 50/47/90 splits. These are sniper %'s to the max over a signifigant sample size.

[Xiao Yao You]

going to be a hard sell after Peja not being better than than empty stats and sub 40% shooters

[Kblaze8855]

Obviously he doesn’t go off often or he wouldn’t average 12.9 a game. He had 16 points the previous 3 games combined and one twenty point night since January 15th. Hes having a great year but it’s a great role player year. Hes not expected to step up nightly and with good reason. He plays off others.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If Beal is going to remain injury prone like he has been these last few years then yes.

[tontoz]

Taking into account their contracts Allen is easily more valuable. Beal makes 5x more than Allen.

[FultzNationRISE]

It’s interesting because he was not shooting like this in Milwaukee. If he had they probably wouldnt have moved him in the first place.

So the question is whether this is an outlier year for him and he’ll regress toward the mean eventually, or if this is his new normal.

But of course if he's gonna remain the best statistical shooter in the game then he’s a pretty valuable guy. My feeling is he cant keep this level up indefinitely, and most importantly will the pressure of the playoffs bring him back down to Earth? Joe Harris used to shoot like this in the regular season, but he could never buy a basket in the playoffs and now hes irrelevant. If Allen isnt shooting 45% on threes or whatever it is, then hes just another guy.

[tpols]

It’s interesting because he was not shooting like this in Milwaukee. If he had they probably wouldnt have moved him in the first place.

So the question is whether this is an outlier year for him and he’ll regress toward the mean eventually, or if this is his new normal.

But of course if he's gonna remain the best statistical shooter in the game then he’s a pretty valuable guy. My feeling is he cant keep this level up indefinitely, and most importantly will the pressure of the playoffs bring him back down to Earth? Joe Harris used to shoot like this in the regular season, but he could never buy a basket in the playoffs and now hes irrelevant. If Allen isnt shooting 45% on threes or whatever it is, then hes just another guy.

He was a 40+% 3pt shooter across his last 4 seasons with the Bucks and Grizzlies. 47% is over his head shooting, but he was elite for a long time before this year.

[FultzNationRISE]

He was a 40+% 3pt shooter across his last 4 seasons with the Bucks and Grizzlies. 47% is over his head shooting, but he was elite for a long time before this year.

He was at an even 40%, which is good but in today’s game I dont know if thats considered ‘elite’ for a floor spacer. Seth Curry shoots a career 43% and hes barely hanging on in the league. Grant Williams for instance shoots 38% from three on his career.

So again I say, Grayson Allen shooting 40% long range just makes him another guy today. He’s a reasonably scrappy and savvy player beyond shooting so he can still get minutes at that percentage. But it doesnt make him someone who is meaningfully above replacement. Again, Milwaukee traded him because they were still looking for that guy in the backcourt. He was ok but he wasnt a difference maker.

[Carbine]

For guys that shoot a decent amount of 3s this year (300 attempts or more) only 15 of them shoot 40 percent or higher.

I think it's safe to say 40 percent is very very good for a floor spacer.

[Carbine]

Certainly can't classify 40 percent as just another guy.

[warriorfan]

40% from 3 is like 60% from 2

[tpols]

He was at an even 40%, which is good but in today’s game I dont know if thats considered ‘elite’ for a floor spacer. Seth Curry shoots a career 43% and hes barely hanging on in the league. Grant Williams for instance shoots 38% from three on his career.

So again I say, Grayson Allen shooting 40% long range just makes him another guy today. He’s a reasonably scrappy and savvy player beyond shooting so he can still get minutes at that percentage. But it doesnt make him someone who is meaningfully above replacement. Again, Milwaukee traded him because they were still looking for that guy in the backcourt. He was ok but he wasnt a difference maker.

40% 3pt shooting is literally the gold standard for 3pt shooting along with 90% FT and 50% FG. Thats what the 50/40/90 club name was built on. It's elite anyway you slice it. He's doing 47 now but his baseline has been long since established.

Seth Curry doing 43% isn't a counter point since he's one of the best shooters in the game. May as well bring up old school Kyle Korver. The difference is those guys were horrible defenders while Grayson is a very good one. To the point people call him dirty. (which a lot of good or great defenders were ~ ie Rodman, Artest, Bowen etc.)

[FultzNationRISE]

For guys that shoot a decent amount of 3s this year (300 attempts or more) only 15 of them shoot 40 percent or higher.

I think it's safe to say 40 percent is very very good for a floor spacer.

300 is an arbitrary cutoff. Simone Fontecchio has 296 attempts and shoots 40%. Lu Dort has taken 292 and shoots 40%. Lebron has 297, 41%.

Tyler Herro 293 attempts. Mike Conley 292. Jalen Suggs 293. Norman Powell, Nas Reid at 289.

All at 40%. Nobody calls them elite shooters.

You get the picture?

[FultzNationRISE]

40% from 3 is like 60% from 2

And thats why games are so high scoring now. Cuz you got guys all over the place doing those numbers.

It’s like actual inflation. It takes people a while to really rewire themselves to think of 20 bucks an hour as a burger flipper job. That used to be what repair technicians made. If you go back even farther thats what lawyers charged.

The definition of “elite” is evolving but peoples perception takes time to catch up.

[Carbine]

300 is an arbitrary cutoff. Simone Fontecchio has 296 attempts and shoots 40%. Lu Dort has taken 292 and shoots 40%. Lebron has 297, 41%.

Tyler Herro 293 attempts. Mike Conley 292. Jalen Suggs 293. Norman Powell, Nas Reid at 289.

All at 40%. Nobody calls them elite shooters.

You get the picture?

Ok, add those 8 and you're at 23 players total in the league. That's still a low number. You're in the upper echelon any way you slice it.

[Carbine]

Also, I'm sure the number is fairly low of guys who averaged 40 percent on threes over a four year period.

[tpols]

^^^

And Grayson is outshooting all of them by a lot.

It's funny you say it's inflation for everybody else to shoot 40% but when Allen does 47% he's just performing over his head.

Your main point is everybody saw an increase in today's game so why would Allen's increase not count?

[FultzNationRISE]

Ok, add those 8 and you're at 23 players total in the league. That's still a low number. You're in the upper echelon any way you slice it.

Ok but if you narrow it down to floor spacers only, since guys like Giannis, Luka, Lebron arent expected to be snipers, and same with guys like Chet and Victor and other bigs with broader roles, and you look purely at floor spacing rotation players, 23 isnt such a small number. Plus you have probably another 30 or so guys in the 38-39% range which is within a single margin of error from 40 and is not significantly different statistically .

Its just not the rarified benchmark youre used to thinking of it as.

[FultzNationRISE]

^^^

And Grayson is outshooting all of them by a lot.

It's funny you say it's inflation for everybody else to shoot 40% but when Allen does 47% he's just performing over his head.

Your main point is everybody saw an increase in today's game so why would Allen's increase not count?

I didnt say it “doesnt count.” Count for what?

I said I suspect he will not continue to shoot 47% from three for the rest of his career.

You really think thats going out on a limb?

[tpols]

I didnt say it “doesnt count.” Count for what?

I said I suspect he will not continue to shoot 47% from three for the rest of his career.

You really think thats going out on a limb?

I also don't think Lou Dort will continue to shoot at 40+%. Graysons averages may come down... others will too. I can pretty much guarantee you his numbers end year will be top notch.

I honestly don't even know how why you're downplaying them. You're the guy who hates chuckers and "stars" who ball hog and play no defense. And Grayson is literally the exact opposite of that and you're just brushing it off. :lol

[FultzNationRISE]

I also don't think Lou Dort will continue to shoot at 40+%. Graysons averages may come down... others will too. I can pretty much guarantee you his numbers end year will be top notch.

I honestly don't even know how why you're downplaying them. You're the guy who hates chuckers and "stars" who ball hog and play no defense. And Grayson is literally the exact opposite of that and you're just brushing it off. :lol

I think youre losing track of whats even being said just to keep an argument afloat.

I explicitly said if he keeps shooting this way hes very valuable. If he shoots a more typical 40% he’s just another rotation guy.

I cant tell if youre disagreeing with those statements or if youre changing my words so you can disagree with something I didnt say, or what the hell’s going on. But I stand by the things I myself actually said.

[Carbine]

I don't know how good Allen is on defense but if he's really a borderline All-NBA type perimeter defender, while shooting 40 percent....

If you think those guys are a dime a dozen I don't know what to tell you. If Seth could play even average defense he would be a valuable commodity to any team.

Danny Green was very very valuable to the Spurs in the early 2010 championship runs. He was not easily replaceable.

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't know how good Allen is on defense but if he's really a borderline All-NBA type perimeter defender, while shooting 40 percent....

If you think those guys are a dime a dozen I don't know what to tell you. If Seth could play even average defense he would be a valuable commodity to any team.

Danny Green was very very valuable to the Spurs in the early 2010 championship runs. He was not easily replaceable.

Ive never seen any metrics or suggestion that Allen is a borderline all-D player. My own perspective having watched him is that he’s solid. Im sure it helped his cause the last couple years playing with Giannis and Brook and Jrue. As an individual my view is he’s… solid.

So again, 40% on threes and a good defender is Lu Dort. It’s Grant Williams. It’s more or less Alex Caruso who shoots 38%. And probably a bunch of other guys.

It’s not some “elite” benchmark anymore unless you define elite very loosely.

[tontoz]

Let's not overlook how lame Beal has been, 18 ppg with average efficiency and weak defense for $47 million. When you add in the missed games he's been an awful addition so far.

Allen has played 23 more games than Beal.

[j3lademaster]

In a vacuum, no. He’s a better fit alongside KD and Booker though.

For a 3rd option to thrive alongside 2 stars they need to be an elite shooter and Grayson provides that at a level that Beal can’t.

If you’re starting a team from scratch then you’re probably going Beal.but Beal is no good as a second option, let alone first; thus Allen provides more value and is a better player. Beal is more talented though.

[ArbitraryWater]

I remember RMWG saying hes just a run of the mill roley

[Jasper]

Obviously he doesn’t go off often or he wouldn’t average 12.9 a game. He had 16 points the previous 3 games combined and one twenty point night since January 15th. Hes having a great year but it’s a great role player year. Hes not expected to step up nightly and with good reason. He plays off others.

beal is 100 % a polished shooter... allan has defensive presence.

[SATAN]

I think Beal was always overrated tbh. Is Allen a better player though? Not really. Is he a good fit with KD and Booker? Absolutely.

This thread is hilarious.

[NBAGOAT]

hard to fit beal on a title team is a problem. He needs the ball too much for a 3rd option and doesnt do other things pass/shoot/defend etc well enough and he's not good enough to be a 2nd option on a title team. When he's on the court with both durant/booker he has role player production. when he's on with just one of them, his volume and efficiency are still mediocre for a sidekick. When it's just him he's scoring a lot but inefficient.

Most likely he's just a 2nd option on a decent playoff team like a prime derozan maybe current siakam. ideal role for him is being 3rd best player but 2nd option on a team with a 2nd star who has elite impact but doesnt need the ball.

[BarberSchool]

No.

But Allen, as much as we hate him, is having an incredible season.
He’s a gritty tough, DIRTY defender, and hits 3’s at a league leading rate.
Also a very underated transition finisher and half court slasher. I would be interested to see any stats to explain his slashing against weak side closeouts, after a Durant or Booker double.

Great to have dirty, efficient sniper a&$holes like him as teammates, instead of opponents.

And on the flip side, Beal is not having a good season, for many reasons. Shame, as Beal is a really great dude.

[TAZORAC]

Grayson Allen is better then Austin Reaves

[Lebron23]

It’s interesting because he was not shooting like this in Milwaukee. If he had they probably wouldnt have moved him in the first place.

So the question is whether this is an outlier year for him and he’ll regress toward the mean eventually, or if this is his new normal.

But of course if he's gonna remain the best statistical shooter in the game then he’s a pretty valuable guy. My feeling is he cant keep this level up indefinitely, and most importantly will the pressure of the playoffs bring him back down to Earth? Joe Harris used to shoot like this in the regular season, but he could never buy a basket in the playoffs and now hes irrelevant. If Allen isnt shooting 45% on threes or whatever it is, then hes just another guy.

He trained with Lethal Shooter

[wagexslave]

As a Suns fan, it's hard to say because Beal has dealt with injuries all season. And yeah on paper it seems like Grayson has been the better scorer. But I feel that Beal is still probably overall more crucial to the team's success than Grayson. Really with how weak some of our bench pieces are, we need everyone in our main rotation healthy. But I think Beal's importance to the team being able to win a playoff series is still a notch above Grayson's.

The team is more dynamic with Beal on the court, they miss him like crazy when he's out. Him being there with his better handles/crossovers and ability to drive/cut to the basket and get shots at the rim, and his transition scoring ability and good passing are all things the team severely lacks without him. And his ability to draw fouls and get to the line when we need it. Etc.

In general, the team plays at a much healthier pace when Beal is playing. The Suns in general need to consistently push a faster pace and are so much better when they're getting out in transition. So many times the Suns are just playing piss slow iso ball wasting 20 seconds off the shot clock and dumping off the ball to someone who's well defended. It's so frustrating and lazy, I'll never understand it. When they're moving the ball running actual plays they're deadly.

Another thing is, since we don't have a true PG on the team, we need both Booker and Beal playing for our "point guard by committee" system to work properly. Beal is just a better secondary ballhandler than Grayson... he's a better initiator of the team offense in general. Grayson can do it too, but it just doesn't seem to be as effective.

Grayson has been great though.He's just been money all year with those spot up 3's. But he's not as great at creating his own shot and gets blocked a lot when driving into the paint(to the point where he's noticeably uncomfortable driving at defenders). Still so happy we got him in the Ayton trade and hope we can somehow keep him in the offseason.

[coin24]

Beal is trash.. Grayson on fire right now

[wagexslave]

Wow Grayson has EIGHT 3-pointers in the 2nd quarter rn... his accuracy this year is nuts. He might break the franchise record tonight.

[tpols]

Wow Grayson has EIGHT 3-pointers in the 2nd quarter rn... his accuracy this year is nuts. He might break the franchise record tonight.

He cooled off but was still +9 to Beals 0. Someone needs to tell Brad to play defense. Isn't Frank Vogel the coach? He's a defense guy

[tontoz]

He cooled off but was still +9 to Beals 0. Someone needs to tell Brad to play defense. Isn't Frank Vogel the coach? He's a defense guy


Good luck with that lol.

[highwhey]

HEY GUYS RMBR THAT I SAID HIS CONTRACT WASN'T WORTH IT? - wf in every single beal thread

[tontoz]

^ yeah pretty sure eveyone agrees except Kblaze.