What do you think about Reed Sheppard?

[Im Still Ballin]

The Ringer just listed him as number one in its updated Mock Draft. A little controversial based on how people have responded.

If you don't know who he is, he's a 6'3" (more like 6'2") guard for Kentucky. Reed is a lights-out shooter, a strong playmaker, and surprisingly athletic and effective on defense. Basketball IQ is through the roof. His major shortcoming is his lack of size/length and explosiveness. Although I think the latter is overstated.

Do you like him as a prospect? Do you think San Antonio should pick him? Some more realistic player comparisons I've heard include Kirk Hinrich with an elite jump shot and late-career Mike Conley. Supposedly, there are even those in NBA front offices who have compared him to Nash.

The main thing holding him back from Nash, Stockton, and Price comparisons is his ball handling. How true is that? I don't know, but you wonder if it's something that can be improved.

It's pretty cool to see an ordinarily-built 6'2" white guy getting this much attention. In this supposed era where athletes are bigger and better. It would be great for the league if he's drafted by San Antonio and does turn out to be a Nash/Stockton/Price-level player. The perfect sidekick for Wemby.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGzXDVk3u9s&pp=ygUNcmVlZCBzaGVwcGFyZA%3D%3D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JdlQHGCigs&pp=ygUNcmVlZCBzaGVwcGFyZA%3D%3D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8ICoAijE8E&pp=ygUNcmVlZCBzaGVwcGFyZA%3D%3D

[BarberSchool]

If there is genuinely potential to be the next great PG there, San Antonio will be able to tell. I don’t see it. I see his nba role like current Grayson Allen (league leading 3pt accuracy), with worse size/length/no-dirty-defense.

John Stockton 2.0 ? Unless he gets a lot faster, and can steal it from big 2guards, very doubtful. Or another Jimmer ? Time will tell.

[tontoz]

I have watched Kentucky several times. Reed can shoot 3s accurately off the dribble moving either direction. He actually has 23 blocks on the season so he is more athletic than people think. He can turn on his scoring when needed and has gone off in the 2nd half in games they were struggling.

He is also a good passer and gets a lot of steals. His numbers are absurd. He actually has a TS of 70%. I don't know about picking him first but i can see picking him at 5. The top 10 in this draft isn't that strong.

[Im Still Ballin]

If there is genuinely potential to be the next great PG there, San Antonio will be able to tell. I don’t see it. I see his nba role like current Grayson Allen (league leading 3pt accuracy), with worse size/length/no-dirty-defense.

John Stockton 2.0 ? Unless he gets a lot faster, and can steal it from big 2guards, very doubtful. Or another Jimmer ? Time will tell.


I have watched Kentucky several times. Reed can shoot 3s accurately off the dribble moving either direction. He actually has 23 blocks on the season so he is more athletic than people think. He can turn on his scoring when needed and has gone off in the 2nd half in games they were struggling.

He is also a good passer and gets a lot of steals. His numbers are absurd. He actually has a TS of 70%. I don't know about picking him first but i can see picking him at 5. The top 10 in this draft isn't that strong.

Do y'all like him for San Antonio or do you prefer the other PGs like Topic and Dillingham? Who would you lean toward The Spurs drafting?

[Im Still Ballin]

I like him in Utah with Lauri and Kessler. That's an all-white trio, ain't it? I wonder if Danny digs Reed.

[Xiao Yao You]

I like him in Utah with Lauri and Kessler. That's an all-white trio, ain't it? I wonder if Danny digs Reed.

Doubt Kessler will be in Utah long. Coach isn't a fan. Danny didn't draft him. Wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a center though wing or guard would seem to be a bigger need

[Im Still Ballin]

Doubt Kessler will be in Utah long. Coach isn't a fan. Danny didn't draft him. Wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a center though wing or guard would seem to be a bigger need

What's coach's deal with Kessler? What about Zach Edey? Maybe Utah could snag him with their second pick if he's still there. Don't they have two first-round picks?

[Xiao Yao You]

What's coach's deal with Kessler? What about Zach Edey? Maybe Utah could snag him with their second pick if he's still there. Don't they have two first-round picks?

might have only one if they don't finish in the bottom 10. High 2nd rounder too. Who knows what is up with Hardy? He keeps saying you won't play if you don't defend but their best defenders Kessler, Agbaji(before he was dealt), Dunn and Hendricks haven't played. He loves The Bum, Collins and George who don't defend

[tontoz]

Do y'all like him for San Antonio or do you prefer the other PGs like Topic and Dillingham? Who would you lean toward The Spurs drafting?

In general think those three will probably be ranked:

Topic
Sheppard


Dillingham

I think Sheppard would work better in SA than other places because Wemby can cover for him defensively and Reed will provide great spacing.

[Im Still Ballin]

In general think those three will probably be ranked:

Topic
Sheppard


Dillingham

I think Sheppard would work better in SA than other places because Wemby can cover for him defensively and Reed will provide great spacing.

Yeah, Wemby would not only mitigate Reed's limitations as a defender but also maximize his strengths. He could play super aggressively and blow up passing lanes like does in college with confidence knowing who's backing him up.

[ShawkFactory]

If there is genuinely potential to be the next great PG there, San Antonio will be able to tell. I don’t see it. I see his nba role like current Grayson Allen (league leading 3pt accuracy), with worse size/length/no-dirty-defense.

John Stockton 2.0 ? Unless he gets a lot faster, and can steal it from big 2guards, very doubtful. Or another Jimmer ? Time will tell.

Grayson Allen isn't a good comp to me at all. Shepperd is way craftier and far more dynamic as a playmaker, and he shows skills at his age that Allen did not have at all.

He plays very restrained or in-control, but if Shepperd turned it on every game and attacked at will he'd score 20 a game as a freshman.

[BarberSchool]

Grayson Allen isn't a good comp to me at all. Shepperd is way craftier and far more dynamic as a playmaker, and he shows skills at his age that Allen did not have at all.

He plays very restrained or in-control, but if Shepperd turned it on every game and attacked at will he'd score 20 a game as a freshman.
Obviously his skill set, and natural instincts and tendencies, and grayson’s are wildly different.at the college level where they were a big option on their squads, they’re entirely different players …

The similarity I see, and was alluding to, is their on court USE at the NBA level,where often, two totally different players, will be hamstrung to weak side 3-pt shooting and scrappy perimeter defenses the rest of their services being underutilized at best, and completely neglected and forgotten about, more likely.

From the highlights OP posted, I don’t see a starting NBA PG. I see him being used as an elite shooter with JJ Reddick/ Grayson Allen usage. Not starting PG usage. Been wrong before about very small guards.

[ShawkFactory]

Obviously his skill set, and natural instincts and tendencies, and grayson’s are wildly different.at the college level where they were a big option on their squads, they’re entirely different players …

The similarity I see, and was alluding to, is their on court USE at the NBA level,where often, two totally different players, will be hamstrung to weak side 3-pt shooting and scrappy perimeter defenses the rest of their services being underutilized at best, and completely neglected and forgotten about, more likely.

From the highlights OP posted, I don’t see a starting NBA PG. I see him being used as an elite shooter with JJ Reddick/ Grayson Allen usage. Not starting PG usage. Been wrong before about very small guards.

That's the thing though. Shepperd wasn't a big option for Kentucky until the last couple of weeks where he's shown a complete takeover ability in multiple facets.

I agree that his size might be an issue, but if he's utilized in a Reddick type of role, he will at least have the ability to be the primary ball-handler and playmaker when the starting PG is out. I could see teams staggering him in that way.

Another aspect, since Grayson was the 21st pick, is that he went to an established team where his role was going to be limited. Shepperd may be tasked with helping a team from the ground-up and I think he has the mental make-up, and skills, to etch out a different role.

I've seen the better-shooting Hinrich comps but I think Bibby ones are more accurate.

[tontoz]

Grayson Allen isn't a good comp to me at all. Shepperd is way craftier and far more dynamic as a playmaker, and he shows skills at his age that Allen did not have at all.

He plays very restrained or in-control, but if Shepperd turned it on every game and attacked at will he'd score 20 a game as a freshman.


He's had 20+ just in the 2nd half a couple of times when they needed him to score against Tenn and Miss St. He is more conservative in the 1st half. Apparently Calipari told him to be more assertive in the 2nd half so he responded.

[ShawkFactory]

He's had 20+ just in the 2nd half a couple of times when they needed him to score against Tenn and Miss St. He is more conservative in the 1st half. Apparently Calipari told him to be more assertive in the 2nd half so he responded.

Yea I think if he was more selfish and just wanted to score/assist he could do so pretty much at will.

[BarberSchool]

That's the thing though. Shepperd wasn't a big option for Kentucky until the last couple of weeks where he's shown a complete takeover ability in multiple facets.

I agree that his size might be an issue, but if he's utilized in a Reddick type of role, he will at least have the ability to be the primary ball-handler and playmaker when the starting PG is out. I could see teams staggering him in that way.

Another aspect, since Grayson was the 21st pick, is that he went to an established team where his role was going to be limited. Shepperd may be tasked with helping a team from the ground-up and I think he has the mental make-up, and skills, to etch out a different role.

I've seen the better-shooting Hinrich comps but I think Bibby ones are more accurate.
Hinrich was far more “black athleticism” than Shepard could ever be. Hinrich also had longer arms and longer strides, and more usable strength at limb range.

[tontoz]

Yea I think if he was more selfish and just wanted to score/assist he could do so pretty much at will.

His ability to shoot off the dribble is high level. He can pull up at any time and doesn't need to load up before jumping like a lot of guys do. I've seen him do pretty much any kind of jumper moving any direction and he makes it look easy.

That 2nd half against Miss St was sick (first vid in OP).

[tontoz]

Hinrich was far more “black athleticism” than Shepard could ever be. Hinrich also had longer arms and longer strides, and more usable strength at limb range.


Sheppard has 23 blocks this season. Hinrich spent 4 years in college and the most he got was 17.

[ShawkFactory]

Hinrich was far more “black athleticism” than Shepard could ever be. Hinrich also had longer arms and longer strides, and more usable strength at limb range.

Well yea he was taller and longer..so that makes sense.

Sheppard makes up for it with incredible instincts and footwork. The improvisation on both ends from such a young guy are impressive.

He doesn’t really have the bounce but his first step is legit and he times everything well.

[BarberSchool]

Sheppard has 23 blocks this season. Hinrich spent 4 years in college and the most he got was 17.
So … are you tryna say … Shepard has more athleticism (or ever could) than Hinrich ? Lmmfao

[tontoz]

So … are you tryna say … Shepard has more athleticism (or ever could) than Hinrich ? Lmmfao


Yes. Kirk was scrappy no doubt but I am pretty sure Sheppard will blow away his combine numbers.

Reed's father had some hops and it shows when Reed contests shots. If you watch him run the break off the ball that's when you can see his speed. He is pretty controlled with the ball so people underrated his athleticism.

Reed dunks routinely in games for a short guy.

[BarberSchool]

Well yea he was taller and longer..so that makes sense.

Sheppard makes up for it with incredible instincts and footwork. The improvisation on both ends from such a young guy are impressive.

He doesn’t really have the bounce but his first step is legit and he times everything well.
Luka has proved a slow guy who times everything well, coordinating his crossover/tween balance act, to both get his own defender off balance, while also timing his drives to when the big is about to out his foot outside the paint … can be every bit as effective and efficient generating paint points, as a dynamite first step.

So it can be done … but from a much larger, heavier player, who deals with body blows better than any PNR player since LeBron.

Reality is shepard’x 6’3” wingspan and lack of height/weight to body his own defender, or any help defender, will likely not be sufficient to be a scoring threat on penetration, that his elite shooting generates (especially attacking weakside close outs like Allen)

Most elite paint scoring guards are either much more athletic (Ja) or larger (Luka, Shai), Shepard would have an awful lot of work to do to imitate curry and Irving paint scoring… if a team even makes him a primary PNP/PNR handler.

[ShawkFactory]

Luka has proved a slow guy who times everything well, coordinating his crossover/tween balance act, to both get his own defender off balance, while also timing his drives to when the big is about to out his foot outside the paint … can be every bit as effective and efficient generating paint points, as a dynamite first step.

So it can be done … but from a much larger, heavier player, who deals with body blows better than any PNR player since LeBron.

Reality is shepard’x 6’3” wingspan and lack of height/weight to body his own defender, or any help defender, will likely not be sufficient to be a scoring threat on penetration, that his elite shooting generates (especially attacking weakside close outs like Allen)

Most elite paint scoring guards are either much more athletic (Ja) or larger (Luka, Shai), Shepard would have an awful lot of work to do to imitate curry and Irving paint scoring… if a team even makes him a primary PNP/PNR handler.

You’re making several leaps here. One is assuming that Sheppard is slow, which he is not.

The other is insinuating that anyone claimed he would be an elite, or even close to elite, paint scoring threat. I was talking about his first step as a means to break down a defense or create shots for himself or others in general.

[warriorfan]

He looks like a great player in a lot of aspects, I personally think his 6’3” wingspan is going to be the bottleneck in his progression to a top level NBA player though. It is possible for him to overcome but the odds aren’t in his favor.

[tontoz]

At the combine Kirk's max vert was 33.5".


https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?SeasonYear=2003-04&dir=A&sort=PLAYER_NAME

I'd bet my car that Sheppard tops that. I would guess his will be at least 37".

[BarberSchool]

He looks like a great player in a lot of aspects, I personally think his 6’3” wingspan is going to be the bottleneck in his progression to a top level NBA player though. It is possible for him to overcome but the odds aren’t in his favor.
Curry and Irving both have short wingspans…

1. Will any team let Shepard be PNP/PNR ball handler?

2. Can his handles develope anywhere close to Curry/Irving ? That’s a mighty tall task.

[warriorfan]

Curry and Irving both have short wingspans…

1. Will any team let Shepard be PNP/PNR ball handler?

2. Can his handles develope anywhere close to Curry/Irving ? That’s a mighty tall task.

They both do. But they have great athleticism in pretty much every other area to make up for it. Plus those guys are probably 1a and 1b for best handles in the game or all time for that matter

I’m not saying it’s impossible, he can still do it, his wingspan is just going to be a big hurdle for him to overcome.

[FultzNationRISE]

He looks like a great player in a lot of aspects, I personally think his 6’3” wingspan is going to be the bottleneck in his progression to a top level NBA player though. It is possible for him to overcome but the odds aren’t in his favor.


Wingspan I think is really a bigger deal on defense than offense. Particularly for perimeter players, and now more than ever, wingspan doesnt really make much difference offensively IMO. When you've got a lot of space to operate, you rarely need to go over the top of someone standing chest to chest with you.

And as individual defense becomes less pertinent, the value of these physical traits starts to shift.

It sounds odd but in a lot of ways shifting the emphasis from defense to offense is a lot like the evolution of humanity. Once you begin mastering tools, you need less physical prowess and more cerebral acuity. Offense in basketball is tool oriented. You manipulate the ball, you use the movement of your teammates, you make decisions based on the usage of these tools. Do you wanna pump fake, do you wanna pass fake, do you wanna dribble to the hoop or pull up for a shot? Do you wanna pass to the cutter, or to the corner man? The better you make decisions and the faster you can do it makes you a more dangerous offensive player.

On defense the only tool is yourself, there are very few decisions to make. You cant really fake anyone out with a move, you cant surprise anyone (unless youre Grand Theft Alvarado), you dont manipulate the ball, and you cant really use your teammates to the same extent you can on offense with picks and passes. There is definitely some value to having good defensive timing and 'instincts,' altho that opens up a different discussion as to whether instincts and decision making are even the same thing.

In general tho, to use the aforementioned examples, what makes guys like Curry and Irving more successful than John Wall for instance, primarily starts with intellect, even if that's not the obvious factor because you cant directly see or measure it. And as basketball becomes more of a race toward flawless offense, wherein the quality of a defense simply doesnt matter because good offense beats good defense, therefore flawless offense will always win no matter the defense, intelligence has become an increasingly important factor in basketball success. It's more important on offense than defense, and the game is moving toward offense. Granted there are still physical thresholds a guy is gonna have to meet to be successful at the NBA level, but you dont have to be Russell Westbrook to be a high impact player.

This is how it was in the 80s and before, where guys had to go thru college and at least be basically personally and professionally competent for coaches and teams to take them seriously as players, and you can just see and hear in the interviews with guys like Kareem or Dr J or whoever that players back then were more intelligent. By the 90s, teams were all trying to pick any dude off the playground they thought might sell a billion dollars worth of gatorade and sneakers with his attitude and flashy dunks, and the league IQ dropped and the quality of offense suffered. The players of the low scoring era were notoriously stupid and this is not a coincidence IMO.

Now youre seeing a revival of offense, and a coinciding league wide revival of intelligence. And less of a place for Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin, Darius Miles types, despite their physical imposition.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wingspan I think is really a bigger deal on defense than offense. Particularly for perimeter players, and now more than ever, wingspan doesnt really make much difference offensively IMO. When you've got a lot of space to operate, you rarely need to go over the top of someone standing chest to chest with you.

And as individual defense becomes less pertinent, the value of these physical traits starts to shift.

It sounds odd but in a lot of ways shifting the emphasis from defense to offense is a lot like the evolution of humanity. Once you begin mastering tools, you need less physical prowess and more cerebral acuity. Offense in basketball is tool oriented. You manipulate the ball, you use the movement of your teammates, you make decisions based on the usage of these tools. Do you wanna pump fake, do you wanna pass fake, do you wanna dribble to the hoop or pull up for a shot? Do you wanna pass to the cutter, or to the corner man? The better you make decisions and the faster you can do it makes you a more dangerous offensive player.

On defense the only tool is yourself, there are very few decisions to make. You cant really fake anyone out with a move, you cant surprise anyone (unless youre Grand Theft Alvarado), you dont manipulate the ball, and you cant really use your teammates to the same extent you can on offense with picks and passes. There is definitely some value to having good defensive timing and 'instincts,' altho that opens up a different discussion as to whether instincts and decision making are even the same thing.

In general tho, to use the aforementioned examples, what makes guys like Curry and Irving more successful than John Wall for instance, primarily starts with intellect, even if that's not the obvious factor because you cant directly see or measure it. And as basketball becomes more of a race toward flawless offense, wherein the quality of a defense simply doesnt matter because good offense beats good defense, therefore flawless offense will always win no matter the defense, intelligence has become an increasingly important factor in basketball success. It's more important on offense than defense, and the game is moving toward offense. Granted there are still physical thresholds a guy is gonna have to meet to be successful at the NBA level, but you dont have to be Russell Westbrook to be a high impact player.

This is how it was in the 80s and before, where guys had to go thru college and at least be basically personally and professionally competent for coaches and teams to take them seriously as players, and you can just see and hear in the interviews with guys like Kareem or Dr J or whoever that players back then were more intelligent. By the 90s, teams were all trying to pick any dude off the playground they thought might sell a billion dollars worth of gatorade and sneakers with his attitude and flashy dunks, and the league IQ dropped and the qualify of offense suffered. The players of the low scoring era were notoriously stupid. I really dont think these things are coincidence.

Now youre seeing a revival of offense, and a coinciding league wide revival of intelligence. And less of a place for Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin, Darius Miles types, despite their physical imposition.

Good post.

Basketball is an inherently offensive game; it's not like soccer where the game routinely ends 0-0. Or 1-0. Even in the late '90s and early '00s - the most defensive era - the average NBA team still scored comfortably over 90 points a night.

Defense is reactionary and largely at the mercy of the offense. As you stated, there's only so much defenses can do to control what happens on a possession.

[warriorfan]

Wingspan I think is really a bigger deal on defense than offense. Particularly for perimeter players, and now more than ever, wingspan doesnt really make much difference offensively IMO. When you've got a lot of space to operate, you rarely need to go over the top of someone standing chest to chest with you.

And as individual defense becomes less pertinent, the value of these physical traits starts to shift.

It sounds odd but in a lot of ways shifting the emphasis from defense to offense is a lot like the evolution of humanity. Once you begin mastering tools, you need less physical prowess and more cerebral acuity. Offense in basketball is tool oriented. You manipulate the ball, you use the movement of your teammates, you make decisions based on the usage of these tools. Do you wanna pump fake, do you wanna pass fake, do you wanna dribble to the hoop or pull up for a shot? Do you wanna pass to the cutter, or to the corner man? The better you make decisions and the faster you can do it makes you a more dangerous offensive player.

On defense the only tool is yourself, there are very few decisions to make. You cant really fake anyone out with a move, you cant surprise anyone (unless youre Grand Theft Alvarado), you dont manipulate the ball, and you cant really use your teammates to the same extent you can on offense with picks and passes. There is definitely some value to having good defensive timing and 'instincts,' altho that opens up a different discussion as to whether instincts and decision making are even the same thing.

In general tho, to use the aforementioned examples, what makes guys like Curry and Irving more successful than John Wall for instance, primarily starts with intellect, even if that's not the obvious factor because you cant directly see or measure it. And as basketball becomes more of a race toward flawless offense, wherein the quality of a defense simply doesnt matter because good offense beats good defense, therefore flawless offense will always win no matter the defense, intelligence has become an increasingly important factor in basketball success. It's more important on offense than defense, and the game is moving toward offense. Granted there are still physical thresholds a guy is gonna have to meet to be successful at the NBA level, but you dont have to be Russell Westbrook to be a high impact player.

This is how it was in the 80s and before, where guys had to go thru college and at least be basically personally and professionally competent for coaches and teams to take them seriously as players, and you can just see and hear in the interviews with guys like Kareem or Dr J or whoever that players back then were more intelligent. By the 90s, teams were all trying to pick any dude off the playground they thought might sell a billion dollars worth of gatorade and sneakers with his attitude and flashy dunks, and the league IQ dropped and the quality of offense suffered. The players of the low scoring era were notoriously stupid and this is not a coincidence IMO.

Now youre seeing a revival of offense, and a coinciding league wide revival of intelligence. And less of a place for Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin, Darius Miles types, despite their physical imposition.

I agree with most of this post. Yes wingspan is primarily for defense, but that is the area will he will be exposed the most.

Yes you can make up for lack of athleticism on defense by high ball iq and being in the right position every time. Steph is a good example of this. An old Andrew Bogut is a good example too, he was still able to be an elite defender after he lost almost all his athleticism due too anticipation and timing.

Yes, generally speaking offense is more valuable than defense, especially in today’s league where it’s almost not allowed anymore.

However that doesn’t mean you can’t play zero D. He could get away with being slightly below average. If he’s a cone, it probably won’t work well.

Is he going to be a JJ Reddick, Jimmer, or even Trey Young type guy

Or is he going to be a kyrie, curry type of guy


Like I said before if we are being realistic he has a better shot at ending up in the first group rather than the latter.

Not saying it’s impossible for him, but as of now it’s going to be a bit of an uphill battle for him to become a star in the NBA.

[ShawkFactory]

I agree with most of this post. Yes wingspan is primarily for defense, but that is the area will he will be exposed the most.

Yes you can make up for lack of athleticism on defense by high ball iq and being in the right position every time. Steph is a good example of this. An old Andrew Bogut is a good example too, he was still able to be an elite defender after he lost almost all his athleticism due too anticipation and timing.

Yes, generally speaking offense is more valuable than defense, especially in today’s league where it’s almost not allowed anymore.

However that doesn’t mean you can’t play zero D. He could get away with being slightly below average. If he’s a cone, it probably won’t work well.

Is he going to be a JJ Reddick, Jimmer, or even Trey Young type guy

Or is he going to be a kyrie, curry type of guy


Like I said before if we are being realistic he has a better shot at ending up in the first group rather than the latter.

Not saying it’s impossible for him, but as of now it’s going to be a bit of an uphill battle for him to become a star in the NBA.

He certainly won’t be a cone on defense, despite potential limitations. Typically those guys are ones that either have no defensive instincts or don’t try. Shepperd is neither.