There's many seasons of Lebron career where MJ could've done better but zero seasons

[3ba11]

of Jordan's career where Lebron could've done better

Lebron wouldn't do better in Jordan's first few seasons because Lebron needed an all-star teammate to win 40 games in 05' and then added a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender to win 50 and make 06' Playoffs.. Otoh, MJ needed no cast or coaching to win 40, 50 or make Playoffs..

Also keep in mind that Lebron never won a series vs a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick, so he never carried weak help over top teams in 2 decades.

[3ba11]

I bring this up because at no point from Jordan's sophomore year of college through his Wizards years, would he ever have a low seed with this Lakers roster.

The fact that Lebron had low seed with David Robinson as teammate is disqualifying and we already know that Lebron was lottery with AD already, while also losing in 1st Round and being swept 4-0 by a 1-star organic team.

All of this is disqualifying because MJ could never be low seed, lottery, or 1st Round loser with a rich man's Pippen, aka Robinson/AD - the #4 all-time PER as a teammate.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg... Winning 53 games in 2017 with 2 all-star teammates is disqualifying because instead of the Finals being a clash of titans like that the 80's Lakers/Celtics, it was considered a big mismatch and big underdog status for the Cavs.. Again, MJ would never win 53 games with 2 franchise players and all-stars as teammates.. The Cavs would win 65-75 games so the Finals was the clash of titans it should've been.

Missing the 05' Playoffs with the East all-star center is disqualifying and needing all that help just to win 50 games is disqualifiying... 22 on 36% vs Spurs is disqualifying...... 7 TO in 4th quarter of critical playoff game to get upset by 1-star team is disqualifying..... 2010 meltdown disqualifying... Losing by record amount despite even odds entering the series and 2 all-star teammates is disqualifying...

Ultimately, there are many seasons of Lebron's where MJ would've done better, but zero seasons of MJ's where Lebron could've done better with the same cast - remember that Lebron needed an all-star teammate to win 40 games in 05' and added a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender to win 50 and make 06' Playoffs.. Otoh, MJ needed no cast or coaching to win 40, 50 or make Playoffs.. Also keep in mind that Lebron never won a series vs a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick, so he never carried weak help over top teams in 2 decades.

[SATAN]

"Look at me, look at me! :)"

[Jasper]

I will say if Jordan did not play baseball ... no questions would be asked who is goat in any era

I have always stated he would of tied Russell with 9 chips.

[Axe]

Attention.

[Hey Yo]

Too dumb, didn't read.

[ShawkFactory]

I will say if Jordan did not play baseball ... no questions would be asked who is goat in any era

I have always stated he would of tied Russell with 9 chips.

Assuming the Bulls won chips both years he didn’t play that would have given him 8.

And Bill Russell had 11.

[3ba11]

Assuming the Bulls won chips both years he didn’t play that would have given him 8.

And Bill Russell had 11.


Offense matters, otherwise you're just a defender - Russell has like 5 Bruce Bowen rings as 5th and 6th option

Regardless, in the history of post-civil rights, post-merger and 3-pointer basketball, Jordan has twice as many rings as the best player as anyone else... (it can easily be argued that a Duncan and Lebron were only the best player for 3 of their rings)

Btw, the "just a defender" argument is the obvious counter to people that say Pippen's scoring didn't matter - it DID matter because he was the 2nd scoring option, so if he's "just a defender", then he's derelict of duty and forces MJ to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load)...

Unfortunately, that's exactly what MJ was forced to do (carry scoring load) for the playoffs and Finals of 6 titles, which otherwise has only been done rarely in one-off fashion (i.e. 06' Wade, 03' Duncan, 94' Hakeem, 00' Shaq).. In addition to carrying the scoring load (defeating max defensive attention), Jordan led Pippen is APG for their regular season career, playoff career and Finals career, while also getting more DPOY votes every year (except 96/97).

[ShawkFactory]

Offense matters, otherwise you're just a defender - Russell has like 5 Bruce Bowen rings as 5th and 6th option

Regardless, in the history of post-civil rights, post-merger and 3-pointer basketball, Jordan has twice as many rings as the best player as anyone else... (it can easily be argued that a Duncan and Lebron were only the best player for 3 of their rings)

Btw, the "just a defender" argument is the obvious counter to people that say Pippen's scoring didn't matter - it DID matter because he was the 2nd scoring option, so if he's "just a defender", then he's derelict of duty and forces MJ to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load)...

Unfortunately, that's exactly what MJ was forced to do (carry scoring load) for the playoffs and Finals of 6 titles, which otherwise has only been done rarely in one-off fashion.. In addition to carrying the scoring load (defeating max defensive attention), Jordan led Pippen is APG for their regular season career, playoff career and Finals career, while also getting more DPOY votes every year (except 96/97).

:facepalm

[3ba11]

:facepalm


MJ would never melt down in 2010 - he makes the Finals that year and has the GOAT showdown with Kobe.

He would also never average 22 on 36% against the Spurs

This is just the tip of the iceberg - there are so many seasons that MJ would've done better (literally every season)..

Otoh, Lebron needed far more help to win 40 or 50 games, or make playoffs, while also never carrying weak help over top teams in 2 decades (never won series vs top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick)

so there's no season that Lebron would've done better than MJ..

[SouBeachTalents]

Regardless, in the history of post-civil rights, post-merger and 3-pointer basketball, Jordan has twice as many rings as the best player as anyone else... (it can easily be argued that a Duncan and Lebron were only the best player for 3 of their rings)
And LeBron has more than Kobe :cheers:

[3ba11]

:facepalm


It's ironic that the Klutch fraudsters say Jordan was "just a scorer", when infact, Bill Russell was often "just a defender"

As usual, the opposite of mainstream consensus is infact the truth

[3ba11]

And LeBron has more than Kobe :cheers:


Ok but Kobe never tricked off a title like Lebron did in 2011 - it only makes sense to subtract the titles you sabotage... :confusedshrug:

How much higher would Wade rank if he had won his 2nd FMVP in 2011?... Unfortunately, we'll never know because Lebron sabotaged the series... :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

Ok but Kobe never tricked off a title like Lebron did in 2011 - it only makes sense to subtract the titles you sabotage... :confusedshrug:

How much higher would Wade rank if he had won his 2nd FMVP in 2011?... Unfortunately, we'll never know because Lebron sabotaged the series... :cheers:
I guess you're unfamiliar with the 2004 Finals. Imagine Shaq with a 4th FMVP? He'd be getting top 5 consideration.

[3ba11]

I guess you're unfamiliar with the 2004 Finals. Imagine Shaq with a 4th FMVP? He'd be getting top 5 consideration.


The 2004 loss was never blamed on Kobe or considered a goat individual choke - the loss was blamed on the Shaq/Kobe feud, which destroyed chemistry and the united drive to win.

Otoh, the 2011 Finals is universally considered the biggest choke in the history of sports by a player of that caliber

Btw, many people feel like the "real" Finals from 00-02' was the WCF - Kobe was the best player in each WCF, all of which were historic series.. The Finals each year was considered a joke (the 00's East is the only conference in history that let multiple 1-star teams win the conference - the conference was won by 1-star teams 6 times from 00-09'.. accordingly, no one gave 2 bird shits about those Finals and Shaq-ball was sufficient to beat the worst comp ever.. but of course it was Kobe-ball vs Portland, Spurs and Kings in WCF)

[SouBeachTalents]

The 2004 loss was never blamed on Kobe or considered a goat individual choke - the loss was blamed on the Shaq/Kobe feud, which destroyed chemistry and the united drive to win.

Otoh, the 2011 Finals is universally considered the biggest choke in the history of sports by a player of that caliber

Btw, many people feel like the "real" Finals from 00-02' was the WCF - Kobe was the best player in each WCF, all of which were historic series.. The Finals each year was considered a joke (the 00's East is the only conference in history that let multiple 1-star teams win the conference - the conference was won by 1-star teams 6 times from 00-09')
:oldlol: Whatever you gotta tell yourself bro

[3ba11]

:oldlol: Whatever you gotta tell yourself bro


it was never considered a goat individual choke like the 2011 Finals

[Axe]

it was never considered a goat individual choke like the 2011 Finals
And you still cannot move on from it. You gotta be ashamed of yourself, andrew.

[ELITEpower23]

2018 LeGoat had a 32.2 Playoff PER thru the Finals
Higher than any MJ run

NEXT

[John8204]

I just want to say...MJ is better than Lebron.

But this thread is trash...MJ never beat Bird in the playoffs...Lebron beat Durant and Curry for titles...MJ failed at his rebuild...Lebron had three rebuilds that led to titles.

[SATAN]

MJ is better than Lebron.



Wrong.

[Phoenix]

But this thread is trash...

It's a 3ball thread. At this point its being perpetuated by responding to him instead of ignoring it, but I assume people know this and do it anyway.