Harden/CP3 vs Luka/Kyrie vs ?

[90sgoat]

Jamal Crawford apparantly said that Luka and Kyrie were the most skilled backcourt of all time.

Do you agree and how do they compare to that Houston backcourt of prime Harden and CP3?

Any other backcourts in the running?

[warriorfan]

I would say it’s accurate.

Harden was more explosive than Luka, but Luka is more skilled in my opinion

CP3 is very skilled and has amazing ball iq of course, but in terms of pure skill? pretty much no one is beating kyrie


Off the top my head I wouldn’t sleep on Dame and CJ back on the blazers. Both those guys had big time skill. I don’t think you can take them over Luka and Irving though

[90sgoat]

Dame and CJ were underrated for sure, mostly because people slept on CJ way too much, as CJ was actually a very clutch player on those teams.

I was thinking going further back then you have someone like Magic and Worthy, though I guess Worthy was a small forward. Gail Goodrich and Jerry West.

You'd have to check if Pistol Pete ever played with another great guard.

[warriorfan]

CJ is nice. Was always a fan. Pretty wild he never made an all star game. There was a lot of competition at guard spot during that time so I guess it does make sense if you think about it; but it’s hard to find guys as skilled as CJ that dont make one ASG.

[tpols]

Curry and klay have 4 rings and don't rely on athleticism at all.

[BarberSchool]

Curry & Klay in the drivers seat.
But if Kyrie & Luka start winning chips, they’re in serious contention for the greatest backcourt of all time, not merely “the most skilled backcourt of all time” as Jamal properly pointed out.

[sdot_thadon]

Ginobili and Parker for honorable mention.

[hold this L]

Curry and klay have 4 rings and don't rely on athleticism at all.
Is the conversation about the most skilled or best?

[tpols]

Is the conversation about the most skilled or best?

Curry and Klay don't have any game breaking speed, strength or hops so to do what theyve done had to be skill based. Luka and Kyrie have better handles but curry and klay are the GOAT shooting backcourt by far.

Jamal Crawford was a ball handling guy so I can see why his opinion is what it is though and Luka and Kyrie are certainly up there.

[FultzNationRISE]

Personally I am NOT gonna sleep on Terry and Barea.

I hate how we act like those guys were just whatever and that theres any shame in losing a series to them. There definitely is NOT.

That said, Wade could have done a better job guarding them in 2011, I get it, but it’s still a very tall ask.

[FultzNationRISE]

Speaking of Wade, he and White Chocolate would be in the convo for the year they won a title. Altho Williams had toned down a lot of the razzle at that point he was obviously still capable of it.

Not saying theyre at the very top, but worth a mention.

[FultzNationRISE]

Also, if we’re disregarding where guys were in their career or how long they were together, Nash and Kobe did play together for a minute.

[tpols]

Speaking of Wade, he and White Chocolate would be in the convo for the year they won a title. Altho Williams had toned down a lot of the razzle at that point he was obviously still capable of it.

Not saying theyre at the very top, but worth a mention.

Wade relied big time on his elite athletic capabilities. Of course he needed LeMaster to carry him but that's besides the point.

[FultzNationRISE]

Wade relied big time on his elite athletic capabilities. Of course he needed LeMaster to carry him but that's besides the point.

Yeah but he was an underrated passer. And a good midrange shooter and finisher.

His athleticism was a big part of his game no doubt. Im not saying be was like top 5 in pure skill. But he was very skilled.

[FKAri]

Curry and klay have 4 rings and don't rely on athleticism at all.

Klay's skill isn't on the same level as the other 3. So it instantly disqualifies the duo.

[Manny98]

2 chokers vs 2 killers, answer is easy

[Duffy Pratt]

Backcourts in the running (depending on how you define skill):

Frazier and Monroe
West and Goodrich

Defense has its own set of skills, and both of these pairs are way better defensively. Hard to compare on ball handling skills because the rules are so different now. Also hard to compare raw numbers on some things (assists awards were much more strict pre-Magic/Stockton). And of course, the three has also botched the comparison.

In modern day, I think Curry and Thompson are more skilled than either of these pairs (but again I don’t really understand the modern usage of skill - it seems to be more directed at flashy stuff that makes your jaw drop than at fundamental skills that lead to winning.)

[tpols]

Klay's skill isn't on the same level as the other 3. So it instantly disqualifies the duo.

Klay may be overrated but you can't argue the results. The warriors dynasty was built off Curry and Klay off ball action and shooting skill.

And I'm heavily rooting for Dallas to win the chip.

[FultzNationRISE]

Backcourts in the running (depending on how you define skill):

Frazier and Monroe
West and Goodrich

Defense has its own set of skills, and both of these pairs are way better defensively. Hard to compare on ball handling skills because the rules are so different now. Also hard to compare raw numbers on some things (assists awards were much more strict pre-Magic/Stockton). And of course, the three has also botched the comparison.

In modern day, I think Curry and Thompson are more skilled than either of these pairs (but again I don’t really understand the modern usage of skill - it seems to be more directed at flashy stuff that makes your jaw drop than at fundamental skills that lead to winning.)

Ball handling is a skill, footwork in the paint is a skill, unconventional shooting is a skill (weird angles, ball spin, etc).

As others have pointed out… Klay really isnt anywhere near the company of the other three when it comes to overall skill. I also dont think Harden and CP3 are on that tier either. Harden in his prime had a tough skillset to stop (in the regular season) but it was a narrower skillset by comparison. CP3 was also skilled certainly but his value was mainly as a decision maker and very consistent jump shooter.

In terms of just being able to do crazy shit with the ball… Curry, Kyrie and Luka are probably the top 3 active guys, behind Lebron.

[FultzNationRISE]

Klay may be overrated but you can't argue the results. The warriors dynasty was built off Curry and Klay off ball action and shooting skill.

And I'm heavily rooting for Dallas to win the chip.

Its reasonable to take Curry/Klay for impact when Irving/Doncic have yet to prove anything as a duo in the playoffs.

But impact and skill arent the exact same. They overlap, but technically different things.

Rebounding is a skill, but nobody would argue Rodman is one of the GOAT skill players. Nor can you put Catch & Shoot Klay up there, despite being a GOAT at that particular skill.

[tpols]

Ball handling is a skill, footwork in the paint is a skill, unconventional shooting is a skill (weird angles, ball spin, etc).

As others have pointed out… Klay really isnt anywhere near the company of the other three when it comes to overall skill. I also dont think Harden and CP3 are on that tier either. Harden in his prime had a tough skillset to stop (in the regular season) but it was a narrower skillset by comparison. CP3 was also skilled certainly but his value was mainly as a decision maker and very consistent jump shooter.

In terms of just being able to do crazy shit with the ball… Curry, Kyrie and Luka are probably the top 3 active guys, behind Lebron.

Hardens off ball skill is trash though. He has no nuance for finding open space off the ball. I wouldn't even say he's that much more skilled than Klay just because he takes a million dribbles. That's checkers to chess.

[warriorfan]

Ball handling is a skill, footwork in the paint is a skill, unconventional shooting is a skill (weird angles, ball spin, etc).

As others have pointed out… Klay really isnt anywhere near the company of the other three when it comes to overall skill. I also dont think Harden and CP3 are on that tier either. Harden in his prime had a tough skillset to stop (in the regular season) but it was a narrower skillset by comparison. CP3 was also skilled certainly but his value was mainly as a decision maker and very consistent jump shooter.

In terms of just being able to do crazy shit with the ball… Curry, Kyrie and Luka are probably the top 3 active guys, behind Lebron.

CP3 is very skilled. He’s just not really flashy with it. CP3 can score at all 3 levels, always had a super high assist to turn over ratio, lead great offenses. He’s extremely skilled. There’s not really much a hole in his game besides for him being small and injury prone, skill wise CP3 is as sound as they come.

[FultzNationRISE]

CP3 is very skilled. He’s just not really flashy with it. CP3 can score at all 3 levels, always had a super high assist to turn over ratio, lead great offenses. He’s extremely skilled. There’s not really much a hole in his game besides for him being small and injury prone, skill wise CP3 is as sound as they come.

I agree he’s a very skilled player relative to league average.

But comparing him to the absolute elite skill players, altho it is splitting hairs to some extent, I dont think he can do *quite* as much as those guys when it comes to pure ball skills. But of course hes not a slouch.

[Duffy Pratt]

Ball handling is a skill, footwork in the paint is a skill, unconventional shooting is a skill (weird angles, ball spin, etc).

As others have pointed out… Klay really isnt anywhere near the company of the other three when it comes to overall skill. I also dont think Harden and CP3 are on that tier either. Harden in his prime had a tough skillset to stop (in the regular season) but it was a narrower skillset by comparison. CP3 was also skilled certainly but his value was mainly as a decision maker and very consistent jump shooter.

In terms of just being able to do crazy shit with the ball… Curry, Kyrie and Luka are probably the top 3 active guys, behind Lebron.

The fundamental skills are Shooting, Ballhandling, Passing, Rebounding and Defense. When people are talking about skill in these conversations, they are largely discounting passing and completely ignoring defense and rebounding. Within each of those categories, there are deeper levels where you can talk about more particularized skills.

The thing that bothers me is that the stuff that counts as highly skilled is often way less valuable than the stuff that is also a skill, but doesn't count. Yes, we won't say that Rodman is more skilled (or Bill Russell), but it seems to me that that is just stupid (or at best discounting skills that are at least as important, if not more important, to winning). At the beginning of the season, everyone was saying how much better the Bucks were going to be because they had gotten Dame as a replacement for Holiday. After all, Dame is a much more skilled player, right? But it turns out that that was wrong, at least for the way the Bucks were constructed and the skills they actually needed and didn't bother to replace.

[BarberSchool]

I'm heavily rooting for Dallas to win the chip.Alot of casual basketball fans think this is crazy, but to me, Dallas is the 3rd most likely to win the chip this year.