Did Jamal Murray show the world he is more clutch than Lebron?

[kawhileonard2]

Murray hit two game winners this series.

[j3lademaster]

Uh, no. Lebron has the most playoff game winners ever. Not that game winners should be an indicator of how clutch a player is due to small sample size. The real clutch stats are how they perform in close games in the 4th and elimination game stats, which Lebron has too.

[TheMan]

Uh, no. Lebron has the most playoff game winners ever. Not that game winners should be an indicator of how clutch a player is due to small sample size. The real clutch stats are how they perform in close games in the 4th and elimination game stats, which Lebron has too.

This LeBron sounds like an amazing clutch player :applause: Given that he's been balling for two decades, he must surely have, what, 6, 7 rings at least?


:roll:

[j3lademaster]

This LeBron sounds like an amazing clutch player :applause: Given that he's been balling for two decades, he must surely have, what, 6, 7 rings at least?


:roll:Rings are circumstantial. Kobe’s argument over Lebron is literally 5 rings > 4 but he won one averaging 15 ppg on 38% in the finals. Lebron’s never had a situation where he can underperform or miss games like that and win. All a player can do is control what’s within their power to control.

https://i.postimg.cc/76VJz4gd/IMG-0424.webp (https://postimages.org/)

[tpols]

I'm pretty sure Lebron has 0 playoff game winners against the west in his 20 year career. Dude only hits when it's pressureless vs shitty teams and especially if it's a tie or his team is up.

The definition of clutch is performing late game under immense pressure. That's never been his Forte. Where as that is one Murray's biggest strengths. It's all about the midrange game when you look at the clutches players ever. I can even admit Murray is a much better gamewinner taker than somebody like Curry who I'm a big fan of.

[tpols]

Rings are circumstantial. Kobe’s argument over Lebron is literally 5 rings > 4 but he won one averaging 15 ppg on 38% in the finals. Lebron’s never had a situation where he can underperform or miss games like that and win. All a player can do is control what’s within their power to control.

https://i.postimg.cc/76VJz4gd/IMG-0424.webp (https://postimages.org/)

Cute stats. Ray, Kyrie, and AD are the only ones who hit gamewinners in his title runs.

[warriorfan]

Rings are circumstantial. Kobe’s argument over Lebron is literally 5 rings > 4 but he won one averaging 15 ppg on 38% in the finals. Lebron’s never had a situation where he can underperform or miss games like that and win. All a player can do is control what’s within their power to control.

https://i.postimg.cc/76VJz4gd/IMG-0424.webp (https://postimages.org/)

stats are overrated. hard to compare stats across eras with both stylistic and major rule changes.

eye test has shown us lebron isn’t clutch

[1987_Lakers]

Rings are circumstantial. Kobe’s argument over Lebron is literally 5 rings > 4 but he won one averaging 15 ppg on 38% in the finals. Lebron’s never had a situation where he can underperform or miss games like that and win. All a player can do is control what’s within their power to control.

https://i.postimg.cc/76VJz4gd/IMG-0424.webp (https://postimages.org/)

It's over.

[HylianNightmare]

I'm pretty sure Lebron has 0 playoff game winners against the west in his 20 year career. Dude only hits when it's pressureless vs shitty teams and especially if it's a tie or his team is up.

The definition of clutch is performing late game under immense pressure. That's never been his Forte. Where as that is one Murray's biggest strengths. It's all about the midrange game when you look at the clutches players ever. I can even admit Murray is a much better gamewinner taker than somebody like Curry who I'm a big fan of.
This. Take away his tie game game winners and the list is short

[SouBeachTalents]

Rings are circumstantial. Kobe’s argument over Lebron is literally 5 rings > 4 but he won one averaging 15 ppg on 38% in the finals. Lebron’s never had a situation where he can underperform or miss games like that and win. All a player can do is control what’s within their power to control.

https://i.postimg.cc/76VJz4gd/IMG-0424.webp (https://postimages.org/)
Swatted that take you'd see made by a casual on social media back in his face :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Cute stats. Ray, Kyrie, and AD are the only ones who hit gamewinners in his title runs.
Just think, Kobe has those atrocious numbers in elimination games AND he has his teammates hit all the gamewinners :lol

[r15mohd]

This. Take away his tie game game winners and the list is short

wasnt both of Murrays tied game winners?

[SouBeachTalents]

wasnt both of Murrays tied game winners?
:oldlol: And they were only in the first round too, with a series lead to boot. Definitely not clutch by this boards standards.

[tpols]

Just think, Kobe has those atrocious numbers in elimination games AND he has his teammates hit all the gamewinners :lol

Being thrust into elimination isn't a good thing bro. Kobe won his titles in mostly 5-6 game series and sweeps.

Not only that but that has nothing to do with clutch play. We're talking about last couple minutes and possessions of close games here... the fact that you guys are trying to shift the argument to something totally different proves you have no case regarding the current topic.

Denver and Murray couldn't have owned Lebron in the clutch anymore than they did and you guys are still talking shit. :lol It's absurdly comical.

[warriorfan]

SouthBeachTalents woke up mad today.

And still has very little understanding of league history and era differences

Sucks to be him

[tpols]

The Lakers were up by double digits in every damn game of the series and lost 4-1. That's just... the most unclutch thing ever. It's actually never even happened before in NBA history.

[StrongLurk]

The Nuggets as a team clutched the crap out of the Lakers. There is no denying that, it happened two years in a row.

With that being said, Lebron lead the league in 4th quarter points this year and has the highest career 4th quarter ppg averages since 1997 (with the most games too which makes that even more insane).

Bron also averaged 9.8ppg on 57.6% in the 4th quarters against the Nuggets so he clearly played well as an individual, but ultimately Jamal Murray hit the biggest shots and the Lakers did not.

[SouBeachTalents]

SouthBeachTalents woke up mad today.

And still has very little understanding of league history and era differences

Sucks to be him
I was actually expecting you to say meltdown, nice to see you change it up with mad instead. First, to your original point, we have both stats and the eye test that shows Curry is extraordinarily unclutch, I think he's 0/14 on GW shots in the playoffs. Second, even if you removed his post 2012 stats, LeBron's elimination game numbers would still be far better than Kobe's.

[r15mohd]

The Lakers were up by double digits in every damn game of the series and lost 4-1. That's just... the most unclutch thing ever. It's actually never even happened before in NBA history.

so if that is the most unclutch thing ever, what do you say about him scoring 16pts in the 4th against the Spurs in 2013?

down double digits, elimination game for the 'chip...must be the opposite of unclutch, no?

[warriorfan]

I was actually expecting you to say meltdown, nice to see you change it up with mad instead. First, to your original point, we have both stats and the eye test that shows Curry is extraordinarily unclutch, I think he's 0/14 on GW shots in the playoffs. Second, even if you removed his post 2012 stats, LeBron's elimination game numbers would still be far better than Kobe's.

it’s just funny that you post kobe stats without any era or pace adjustment

you are like that old guy who used to always post about wilt and use raw box score numbers without any adjustment or looking at any other context


long story short you don’t know shit about basketball and are a goofy spaz

[tpols]

so if that is the most unclutch thing ever, what do you say about him scoring 16pts in the 4th against the Spurs in 2013?

down double digits, elimination game for the 'chip...must be the opposite of unclutch, no?

I mean Ray saved his ass in that series and broke the Spurs spirit. Lebrons numbers pre and post Ray Allen shot are night and day different.

Not everybody can be perfect bro. Lebron is a way better overall player and talent than Murray. But he's not even remotely as clutch as him.

[j3lademaster]

it’s just funny that you post kobe stats without any era or pace adjustment

you are like that old guy who used to always post about wilt and use raw box score numbers without any adjustment or looking at any other context


long story short you don’t know shit about basketball and are a goofy spazThis isn't a Wilt situation at all. Wilt played in the 60's, Kobe and Lebron shared 13 seasons in the league together. If anything, you're making Lebron look even better since he's able to adjust his game to dominate in different eras.

[j3lademaster]

I mean Ray saved his ass in that series and broke the Spurs spirit. Lebrons numbers pre and post Ray Allen shot are night and day different.

Not everybody can be perfect bro. Lebron is a way better overall player and talent than Murray. But he's not even remotely as clutch as him.Why do we always have to go to one shot made 11 years ago for a still-active player to argue he's 'unclutch'? do we have any more recent examples?

[r15mohd]

I mean Ray saved his ass in that series and broke the Spurs spirit. Lebrons numbers pre and post Ray Allen shot are night and day different.

Not everybody can be perfect bro. Lebron is a way better overall player and talent than Murray. But he's not even remotely as clutch as him.

nah, he is and has been clutch. just last night he hit 2 pressure FTs to tie the game - which is more pressure than Jamal hitting a tied-game shot

you're just looking for a last shot highlight reel as definition - and that's fine, but you become your own hypocrite when you try to defend it.

[tpols]

Why do we always have to go to one shot made 11 years ago for a still-active player to argue he's 'unclutch'? do we have any more recent examples?

Because it's literally the clutchest shot in NBA history all context included. And this is a thread about clutch performance.

I honestly am baffled how you guys can talk trash on THIS subject after what we just immediately recently witnessed. :lol

It's mind bottling.

[stalkerforlife]

Murray got that DAWG in him.

[FKAri]

No but he did shoe that he's more clutch than Kawhi

[warriorfan]

This isn't a Wilt situation at all. Wilt played in the 60's, Kobe and Lebron shared 13 seasons in the league together. If anything, you're making Lebron look even better since he's able to adjust his game to dominate in different eras.

After the 2004 Finals the NBA decided that they needed to open up the game offensively to bring a better product for the fans. The alterations introduced by the NBA included restrictions on hand-checking, blocking fouls, and the defensive three-second rule. These changes aimed to promote a more open style of play and encourage higher-scoring games.

Kobe only played around 5 or 6 years of his prime in the no handcheck era before he broke down with injuries

Lebron played his entire career besides his rookie year (which was 2004) in the no handcheck era.



Your metric of simplistically counting their overlapping years is missing all sorts of context and is quite frankly meaningless.

[TheMan]

It's over.
True dat, LeBron's on a plane headed to Cancun as we speak :roll:

[TheMan]

Murray got that DAWG in him.

Hey bro, how you been? :cheers:

[aj1987]

I mean Ray saved his ass in that series and broke the Spurs spirit. Lebrons numbers pre and post Ray Allen shot are night and day different.

Not everybody can be perfect bro. Lebron is a way better overall player and talent than Murray. But he's not even remotely as clutch as him.

Are you talking about the game when LeBron went 7/11 in the 4th Q with 16 points and almost single handedly brought back the Heat into the game? Not to mention his 3, which actually made Allen's 3 possible?

If you think LeBron's not clutch, Kobe is dog shit compared to him.

[tpols]

Are you talking about the game when LeBron went 7/11 in the 4th Q with 16 points and almost single handedly brought back the Heat into the game? Not to mention his 3, which actually made Allen's 3 possible?

If you think LeBron's not clutch, Kobe is dog shit compared to him.

I would take Jamal Murray for a gamewinner over Lebron and Kobe. Kobe is too arrogant and Lebron is too cowardly. In that regard Murray is the perfect in between.

[aj1987]

I would take Jamal Murray for a gamewinner over Lebron and Kobe. Kobe is too arrogant and Lebron is too cowardly. In that regard Murray is the perfect in between.

Same old tpols. The game you were talking about, LeBron took 3 shots in the final seconds and made one. Too cowardly though.

Did you actually ever watch LeBron play?

[warriorfan]

Same old tpols. The game you were talking about, LeBron took 3 shots in the final seconds and made one. Too cowardly though.

Did you actually ever watch LeBron play?

yeah he played hot potato when guarded by steph curry in the finals to defer to george hill

[jlip]

LeBron literally did in his first playoff series ever back in 2006 what Murray did this series. He hit two game winning baskets against the Wizards, but considering they were layups, they don't count in the delusional minds of haters and critics. The goal posts always move when LeBron does something positive. Then we have his historic game 5 performance against the Pistons the very next season in 2007 where again, he scored the game winning basket with 2 seconds left. But again, it was a layup, so technically it wasn't "clutch" either according to the critics. Also, LeBron literally has the most playoff buzzer beater game winning shots in NBA history with most of them being jump shots and three pointers. But those don't count either in some deranged LeBron hating world.

Murray proved that he can be very clutch this series, and probably even more clutch in the 2024 first round than a 39 year old LeBron who is the oldest player in the league, but Murray has a long way to go before he can match the clutch or at least, the game winning clutch shot resume of LeBron.

[warriorfan]

LeBron literally did in his first playoff series ever back in 2006 what Murray did this series. He hit two game winning baskets against the Wizards, but considering they were layups, they don't count in the delusional minds of haters and critics. The goal posts always move when LeBron does something positive. Then we have his historic game 5 performance against the Pistons the very next season in 2007 where again, he scored the game winning basket with 2 seconds left. But again, it was a layup, so technically it wasn't "clutch" either according to the critics. Also, LeBron literally has the most playoff buzzer beater game winning shots in NBA history with most of them being jump shots and three pointers. But those don't count either in some deranged LeBron hating world.

Murray proved that he can be very clutch this series, and probably even more clutch in the 2024 first round than a 39 year old LeBron who is the oldest player in the league, but Murray has a long way to go before he can match the clutch or at least, the game winning clutch shot resume of LeBron.

He also has the most playoff games played by a good amount.

[RachlNicholsazz]

Rings are circumstantial. Kobe’s argument over Lebron is literally 5 rings > 4 but he won one averaging 15 ppg on 38% in the finals.

He was 21 years old. Lebron averaged 17.8ppg on 48% shooting in the finals as 26 year old

[tpols]

LeBron literally did in his first playoff series ever back in 2006 what Murray did this series. He hit two game winning baskets against the Wizards, but considering they were layups, they don't count in the delusional minds of haters and critics. The goal posts always move when LeBron does something positive. Then we have his historic game 5 performance against the Pistons the very next season in 2007 where again, he scored the game winning basket with 2 seconds left. But again, it was a layup, so technically it wasn't "clutch" either according to the critics. Also, LeBron literally has the most playoff buzzer beater game winning shots in NBA history with most of them being jump shots and three pointers. But those don't count either in some deranged LeBron hating world.

Murray proved that he can be very clutch this series, and probably even more clutch in the 2024 first round than a 39 year old LeBron who is the oldest player in the league, but Murray has a long way to go before he can match the clutch or at least, the game winning clutch shot resume of LeBron.

Using the age excuse doesn't work when you're coddled, pampered, and pumped with PEDs.

Lebron is still out here producing like he did in his prime. Out running and out jumping everybody. And especially Jokic and taped up Murray dunking on his ass.

Oh... and whats the non existant common denominator between 2006 and 2007 and this year?

He LOST. :lol

We finna get yall some clown shoes and a red nose ball.

[warriorfan]

He was 21 years old. Lebron averaged 17.8ppg on 48% shooting in the finals as 26 year old

:lol

[j3lademaster]

He was 21 years old. Lebron averaged 17.8ppg on 48% shooting in the finals as 26 year oldAnd can you imagine if he won it that year and Lebron fans take that and say '5 rings > 4'?

[ShawkFactory]

LeBron literally did in his first playoff series ever back in 2006 what Murray did this series. He hit two game winning baskets against the Wizards, but considering they were layups, they don't count in the delusional minds of haters and critics. The goal posts always move when LeBron does something positive. Then we have his historic game 5 performance against the Pistons the very next season in 2007 where again, he scored the game winning basket with 2 seconds left. But again, it was a layup, so technically it wasn't "clutch" either according to the critics. Also, LeBron literally has the most playoff buzzer beater game winning shots in NBA history with most of them being jump shots and three pointers. But those don't count either in some deranged LeBron hating world.

Murray proved that he can be very clutch this series, and probably even more clutch in the 2024 first round than a 39 year old LeBron who is the oldest player in the league, but Murray has a long way to go before he can match the clutch or at least, the game winning clutch shot resume of LeBron.

I also seem to recall that some of these same haters and critics vehemently arguing that shots aren't clutch if the score is tied.

Ironically the case with both of Murray's shots in this series.

[ShawkFactory]

Using the age excuse doesn't work when you're coddled, pampered, and pumped with PEDs.

Lebron is still out here producing like he did in his prime. Out running and out jumping everybody. And especially Jokic and taped up Murray dunking on his ass.

Oh... and whats the non existant common denominator between 2006 and 2007 and this year?

He LOST. :lol

We finna get yall some clown shoes and a red nose ball.

:facepalm

[Charlie Sheen]

Using the age excuse doesn't work when you're coddled, pampered, and pumped with PEDs.

Lebron is still out here producing like he did in his prime. Out running and out jumping everybody. And especially Jokic and taped up Murray dunking on his ass.

Oh... and whats the non existant common denominator between 2006 and 2007 and this year?

He LOST. :lol

We finna get yall some clown shoes and a red nose ball.

That does not happen in Lebron's prime. He gets over a step quicker and up higher to contest.

[sdot_thadon]

This LeBron sounds like an amazing clutch player :applause: Given that he's been balling for two decades, he must surely have, what, 6, 7 rings at least?


:roll:

I'm pretty sure he would if his teams were always better than his comp like some specific player.....

[AlternativeAcc.]

I was actually expecting you to say meltdown, nice to see you change it up with mad instead. First, to your original point, we have both stats and the eye test that shows Curry is extraordinarily unclutch, I think he's 0/14 on GW shots in the playoffs. Second, even if you removed his post 2012 stats, LeBron's elimination game numbers would still be far better than Kobe's.

Ether