In 2010, Lebron lost to a team like the current Suns - old, washed up & underdog

[3ba11]

He lost by averaging 21 on 34% for the last 3 games

When he finally beat the Celtics in 2011, Wade carried him by leading the team in scoring & assists.

Ultimately, Lebron beat KG, Pierce and Allen when they were 32-34 years old, while Jordan beat Isiah, Dumars and Rodman when they were 27-29 years old.

Most importantly, Jordan demonstrated his superiority over peers because Bird/Magic's super-teams could barely hang with the Bad Boys, while Jordan made the Bad Boys a piece of cake with just 1 all-star.... So Jordan won with less than his peers, while Lebron was the only guy colluding from 2011-2016 when he started winning.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe shot 6-24 vs that same old team in a game 7 Finals

[ShawkFactory]

Couple notes here:

- The Celtics in 2010 made the finals beating two 60 win teams
- The Suns were not underdogs in this series
- YOU claimed that these Suns were going to win the title, citing that all 3 of their stars were expert jumpshooters

Carry on.

[j3lademaster]

Those Celtic’s teams were a perfect fit together. The Suns got 3 varying levels of essentially the same player and thought it’d all work out, the C’s had a legit game manager running their offense who wasn’t even included in the big 3. Not to mention one of their big three is an all nba quality defender and Truth and Allen aren’t bad on that end either. They held Kobe to 40% shooting, I’d like to think Kobe can at least match Ant’s performance against the Suns.

[tpols]

Kobe shot 6-24 vs that same old team in a game 7 Finals

In a game that ended with a point total in the 70s and 80s. And won the title with the game winning assist to Artest.

Its funny how you clowns are allergic to context. :lol

[tontoz]

Couple notes here:

- The Celtics in 2010 made the finals beating two 60 win teams
- The Suns were not underdogs in this series
- YOU claimed that these Suns were going to win the title, citing that all 3 of their stars were expert jumpshooters

Carry on.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20240502-103209.jpg

[1987_Lakers]

In a game that ended with a point total in the 70s and 80s. And won the title with the game winning assist to Artest.

Its funny how you clowns are allergic to context. :lol

Sorry, shooting 25% is dog shit no matter how much context you put behind it.

[SouBeachTalents]

In a game that ended with a point total in the 70s and 80s. And won the title with the game winning assist to Artest.

Its funny how you clowns are allergic to context. :lol
tpols complaining about a lack of context is easily one of the funniest things I’ve seen on here :lol

[ShawkFactory]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20240502-103209.jpg

:roll:

[tpols]

Sorry, shooting 25% is dog shit no matter how much context you put behind it.

Everybody shot bad in that game. It was a dog fight. Kobe had the most points and closed it out though. Better that than a pretty stat line and an L which is your boys M.O.

Overall Kobe averaged 30/6/6 for that title.

[1987_Lakers]

Everybody shot bad in that game.

Celtics shot 41% as a team

Lakers shot 33% as a team (Largely due to Kobe)

Kobe shot 25%.

[3ba11]

Sorry, shooting 25% is dog shit no matter how much context you put behind it.



"we had a hard time rebounding the ball, particularly when we were double-teaming Jordan"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=191s


Same is true for Kobe - low-efficiency, high volume performances yield advantages on the offensive glass as teammates become good at anticipating the star's misses, while an opponent's double-teaming further destroys their defensive rebounding capacity.

This doesn't mean that anyone can chuck away, but the occasional bad-shooting night from a goat like MJ or Kobe isn't the same as other players - it requires incessant double-teaming, which hurts the opponent in other ways

[SouBeachTalents]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20240502-103209.jpg
OP gonna pretend real hard that he doesn’t see this :lol

[1987_Lakers]

"we had a hard time rebounding the ball, particularly when we were double-teaming Jordan"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=191s


Same is true for Kobe - low-efficiency, high volume performances yield advantages on the offensive glass as teammates become good at anticipating the star's misses, while an opponent's double-teaming further destroys their defensive rebounding capacity.


This dude is really saying shooting bad is a good thing.

:roll:

[3ba11]

:roll:


That's the thing about getting old... it happens overnight... who knew Beal was completely washed along with KD.. I always wondered how they got Beal so easily

[ShawkFactory]

That's the thing about getting old... it happens overnight... who knew Beal was completely washed along with KD.. I always wondered how they got Beal so easily

He's 30. Is he washed? Or is he a really bad fit as the 3rd option with two guys ahead of him who essentially do the same thing? 3rd options who do the same thing as the guys above are not useful for a team trying to win a title. As you go down the pecking order ideally you want guys who fill the gaps and do things that KD and Booker can't. Give them like a Bam or even an Evan Mobley and things look better.

Send Beal back to Washington and he'll go back to averaging 25 a game.

[tontoz]

That's the thing about getting old... it happens overnight... who knew Beal was completely washed along with KD.. I always wondered how they got Beal so easily

KD averaged 27/7/5 during the season with a 62% TS. In the playoffs it was 29/8/4 with a 65% TS. That is pretty far from washed. Beal is only 30 and had the most efficient shooting season of his career.

They got swept because their "brand of ball" was inferior. It was easy to see coming for anyone who has some common sense about basketball and actually watches games.

[3ba11]

This dude is really saying shooting bad is a good thing.

:roll:


I'm not the guy that said it - MJ and Kobe's opponents are the ones that said that double-teaming MJ/Kobe hurt their own team's rebounding capacity, which makes a lot of sense.. I'm surprised that you aren't more interested in such a pure basketball issue, i.e. double-teams put a defense out of position for rebounds, thus boosting the offensive rebounds of the team that's getting double-teamed.

So my post didn't mean that anyone can just chuck away, but the occasional bad-shooting night from a goat like MJ or Kobe isn't the same as other players - it requires incessant double-teaming, which hurts the opponent's rebounding and gets teammates going as well - these are things Lebron lacks in his game (getting teammates to play well and his team's offensive rebounding) because he doesn't command doubles..

And any junior-higher can pass out of a double-team, which instantly gives his team a 4-on-3 advantage - so double-teaming compromises ANY defense, not just a defense that is facing a good passer - it doesn't take a good passer to pass out of a double-team and gain that 4-on-3 advantage.

[sdot_thadon]

I'm not the guy that said it - MJ and Kobe's opponents are the ones that said that double-teaming MJ/Kobe hurt their own team's rebounding capacity, which makes a lot of sense.. I'm surprised that you aren't more interested in such a pure basketball issue, i.e. double-teams put a defense out of position for rebounds, thus boosting the offensive rebounds of the team that's getting double-teamed.

So my post didn't mean that anyone can just chuck away, but the occasional bad-shooting night from a goat like MJ or Kobe isn't the same as other players - it requires incessant double-teaming, which hurts the opponent's rebounding and gets teammates going as well - these are things Lebron lacks in his game (getting teammates to play well and his team's offensive rebounding) because he doesn't command doubles..

And any junior-higher can pass out of a double-team, which instantly gives his team a 4-on-3 advantage - so double-teaming compromises ANY defense, not just a defense that is facing a good passer - it doesn't take a good passer to pass out of a double-team and gain that 4-on-3 advantage.
What are you even talking about? The ancient old man river version of Bron still gets doubled routinely. And if you ever watched any basketball, you'd know a long time ago much brighter basketball minds than you decided it was more perilous to double lebron than to play him straight up, which was pretty risky on its own. They decided zones ro make him think a bit was the best route till he outgrew that tactic too. Thread cliffs: OP's still an idiot.

[3ba11]

KD averaged 27/7/5 during the season with a 62% TS. In the playoffs it was 29/8/4 with a 65% TS. That is pretty far from washed. Beal is only 30 and had the most efficient shooting season of his career.

They got swept because their "brand of ball" was inferior. It was easy to see coming for anyone who has some common sense about basketball and actually watches games.


Their brand of ball was garbage but that's what team-hopping and "talent-based winning" produces - it relies on talent and not brand of ball.. In contrast to these "super-teams" that have 3 franchise players, "normal" or "organic" rosters only have 1 franchise player, and therefore requires chemistry to win.. That's why Lebron never learned how to win - he gave up on learning how to win with normal rosters and chemistry in 2010 by pursuing a talent-based approach of super-teams (multiple franchise players on 1 team)

With this talent-based approach, losses are blamed on not having enough talent/help.. Simply "getting better" and improving chemistry aren't considerations like they are for organic winners (Jokic, Curry and MJ) - they actually learned how to WIN (organic, chemistry), while Lebron only learned how to team-hop for more help (and still mostly lose).

And we all should've seen that Durant was old after he was locked up in 2022 Playoffs by Boston.. An honest oversight by many people including myself.

Peak KD from the Warriors would be the favorite along with Jokic to win the West - it would be considered a battle of 2 titans - but instead it's a washed KD that can't get 40 whenever he wants or average 36 on peak Lebron and the defending champs.. He just isn't at that level anymore of physical dominance anymore - he can't go back at Ant indiscriminately like he would've in years past.

[brownmamba00]

Is that the series LeBron quit on Cleveland and packed his bags to Miami?

Cant blame him when Delonte was messing around with his mom.

[3ba11]

Is that the series LeBron quit on Cleveland and packed his bags to Miami?

Cant blame him when Delonte was messing around with his mom.


Delonte didn't rape her.. It was obviously consensual.. I don't see what the problem was or why Lebron gets coddled in this situation.. Lebron was a fully-grown man and it's not like he was scr**ing his mom or something and got jealous, although that's how he reacted.

Ultimately, Lebron was following the normal path of having an organic juggernaut and league favorite by year 7 just like Jokic, Curry, MJ or Giannis - these organic teams are "normal" rosters with 1 franchise player, so they're based on CHEMISTRY.. But Lebron gave up on climbing the chemistry learning curve and opted for talent-based winning after choking as the massive favorite in 2010 - people say that he carries any team to the Finals but he literally left Cleveland because he couldn't.. He gave up on learning how to win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player by obtaining better rosters of 3 franchise players (super-team), yet still mostly lost.. He's confirmed that he isn't capable of having a stretch of mostly winning, regardless, of cast, and mostly loses with every cast (bron-ball).. Since his reliance on ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles, zero young players developed to meaningful producer on his watch, which means Lebron needs ready-made stars (can't win organically).

[3ba11]

What are you even talking about? The ancient old man river version of Bron still gets doubled routinely. And if you ever watched any basketball, you'd know a long time ago much brighter basketball minds than you decided it was more perilous to double lebron than to play him straight up, which was pretty risky on its own. They decided zones ro make him think a bit was the best route till he outgrew that tactic too. Thread cliffs: OP's still an idiot.


Despite getting double-teamed in some cases, single coverage is a very common strategy (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) against Lebron - MJ was literally never played single-coverage for the better part of any series.

The reason Lebron isn't doubled is because defenses can always meet penetrators at the rim with multiple defenders, so the only guys that require overt double-teams are great jumpshooters that routinely "get hot".. This requires getting the ball out of their hands to avoid a quick 10-point deficit and/or counter momentum.. It's a completely different level of strategic requirement that bricklayers and predictable rim-attackers like Lebron or Westbrook don't require.

Furthermore, jumpshooters are often on the post or coming off screens, so opponents must plan schemes that double jordan and curry upon the catch - it's just another aspect that is hard to do effectively and can hurt opponents.

[sdot_thadon]

Despite getting double-teamed in some cases, single coverage is a very common strategy (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) against Lebron - MJ was literally never played single-coverage for the better part of any series.

The reason Lebron isn't doubled is because defenses can always meet penetrators at the rim with multiple defenders, so the only guys that require overt double-teams are great jumpshooters that routinely "get hot".. This requires getting the ball out of their hands to avoid a quick 10-point deficit and/or counter momentum.. It's a completely different level of strategic requirement that bricklayers and predictable rim-attackers like Lebron or Westbrook don't require.

Furthermore, jumpshooters are often on the post or coming off screens, so opponents must plan schemes that double jordan and curry upon the catch - it's just another aspect that is hard to do effectively and can hurt opponents.

You're thinking way too hard for a concept far too basic. Lebron is doubled less because doubling him allows shooters to get hot historically or for a throwaway big to have a 20 plus point night. It's happened emough times to avoid that as a tactic if possible. Aka pick your poison. The other is they double scorers why? Because they dont WANT to pass, being far more likely to jack up an attempt over 2 than give a free shot to a teammate. It's not rocket science Einstein.

[John8204]

Those celtics weren't even in their mid-thirties in 2010...and you also had Perkins and Rondo who were sub-25. Devin Booker is 27....Ayton is how old....this is just embarrassing.

[red1]

OP no one is impressed by the teams that jordan beat

and now we know he had a stacked cast


that 6-0 finals record doesnt look as impressive now that we know he was beating up on cans while he had a stacked team



its been exposed

[ArbitraryWater]

KD averaged 27/7/5 during the season with a 62% TS. In the playoffs it was 29/8/4 with a 65% TS. That is pretty far from washed. Beal is only 30 and had the most efficient shooting season of his career.

They got swept because their "brand of ball" was inferior. It was easy to see coming for anyone who has some common sense about basketball and actually watches games.

3ball exposed

[Wally450]

"we had a hard time rebounding the ball, particularly when we were double-teaming Jordan"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=191s


Same is true for Kobe - low-efficiency, high volume performances yield advantages on the offensive glass as teammates become good at anticipating the star's misses, while an opponent's double-teaming further destroys their defensive rebounding capacity.

The Lakers don't win that G7 if Perkins doesn't tear his ACL in game 6. Kobe doesn't get 15 rebounds and he gets clowned on for eternity for his performance in the loss.

[ArbitraryWater]

Same is true for Kobe - low-efficiency, high volume performances yield advantages on the offensive glass as teammates become good at anticipating the star's misses, while an opponent's double-teaming further destroys their defensive rebounding capacity.



the most insane brainrot yet

[StrongLurk]

Who let OP out of the mental ward and allowed access to a computer?

[3ba11]

You're thinking way too hard for a concept far too basic. Lebron is doubled less because doubling him allows shooters to get hot historically or for a throwaway big to have a 20 plus point night. It's happened emough times to avoid that as a tactic if possible. Aka pick your poison. The other is they double scorers why? Because they dont WANT to pass, being far more likely to jack up an attempt over 2 than give a free shot to a teammate. It's not rocket science Einstein.


Lebron's teammates always stink up the joint because of this predictable approach of high-pressure drive-and-kick - he never learned to truly elevate teammates with great ball movement and seamless chemistry, so the story is always how teammates played poorly and didn't help him enough for 2 decades now.. But in reality, it's just Lebron imposing high-pressure spot-up roles as his standard - that's his simpleton skillset.

So the single-coverage is for obvious and intuitive reasons - Lebron's personal offense isn't a sufficient threat (doesn't get hot and galvanize his team) so it's better to let a ball-dominator dribble than force them to move the ball via double-team - why force the opponent to play a better brand of ball?.. Stan Van Gundy said "we were happy to let him dribble and get stats"... Why would they double when they know their offense is outpacing Lebron's ball-dominance? Why poke the bear (the "bear" being ball movement)?.. Just let the dumb guy dribble and pad stats - the biggest stat-padder and empty stats player in history.

So it isn't a pick your poison because it's record blowout, sweep or upset by many opponents - the simpleton drive-and-kick isn't enough to have good teams on the championship level, regardless of cast.

[1987_Lakers]

KD averaged 27/7/5 during the season with a 62% TS. In the playoffs it was 29/8/4 with a 65% TS. That is pretty far from washed. Beal is only 30 and had the most efficient shooting season of his career.

They got swept because their "brand of ball" was inferior. It was easy to see coming for anyone who has some common sense about basketball and actually watches games.

Not to mention Booker also cooked this year.

3ball doesn't want to admit you can't win if you just have one-dimensional scorers on your team.

Teams need a Pippen.

[3ba11]

Not to mention Booker also cooked this year.

3ball doesn't want to admit you can't win if you just have one-dimensional scorers on your team.

Teams need a Pippen.


APG

Westbrook.............. 8.6
Rondo.................... 7.9
D-Lo...................... 5.8
Kyrie...................... 5.7
Wade..................... 5.4
MJ......................... 5.3
Pippen................... 5.2


So MJ won the least passing and scoring and clutch help

[red1]

not gonna lie jordan might fall out of his 1b status at this rate

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron's teammates always stink up the joint because of this predictable approach of high-pressure drive-and-kick - he never learned to truly elevate teammates with great ball movement and seamless chemistry, so the story is always how teammates played poorly and didn't help him enough for 2 decades now.. But in reality, it's just Lebron imposing high-pressure spot-up roles as his standard - that's his simpleton skillset.

So the single-coverage is for obvious and intuitive reasons - Lebron's personal offense isn't a sufficient threat (doesn't get hot and galvanize his team) so it's better to let a ball-dominator dribble than force them to move the ball via double-team - why force the opponent to play a better brand of ball?.. Stan Van Gundy said "we were happy to let him dribble and get stats"... Why would they double when they know their offense is outpacing Lebron's ball-dominance? Why poke the bear (the "bear" being ball movement)?.. Just let the dumb guy dribble and pad stats - the biggest stat-padder and empty stats player in history.

So it isn't a pick your poison because it's record blowout, sweep or upset by many opponents - the simpleton drive-and-kick isn't enough to have good teams on the championship level, regardless of cast.

The more you post the more you verify your deranged mental condition. I've never heard of high pressure open shots, it's an oxymoron and you? A simple moron. Usually, and especially when he was younger Lebron got open looks for guys who couldn't score well on their own, open lanes to easy dunks/alley oops for bigs off pnr. This method took several different mashjps of role players to playoff contention. This isn't up for debate it's in the books. In his 1st Cavs tenure he turned a guy like Hickson(who?) into a guy deemed untradable for still prime Amare Stoudamire. Big Z was damn near in a walker mobility-wise by the time they got to Miami but Lebron definitely extended his career and utility up to that point. His attention to individual teammates is rare and he maximizes guys on the floor rather than claiming to have created them in the gym. You know why the guy has so many triple doubles and near triple doubles? Because once he has a big 1st half, he looks to get his teammates involved when the inevitable doubles arrive. I admit as a Mj and Kobe fan it was sometimes frustrating to watch him piss away so many potential high scoring games with 2nd half facilitating but eventually you see the genius of it when all the role players click and the game avalanches their way. The older version can't do these things as well obviously, he's old. But so are you, too old to be this stupid for this many posts.

[BlackMamba8]

Celtics shot 41% as a team

Lakers shot 33% as a team (Largely due to Kobe)

Kobe shot 25%.

you ok ******? Your queen is off in vacation crying like a bitch looking for ANOTHER coach to blame. Do me a favor lick my balls you bitch

[tpols]

Not to mention Booker also cooked this year.

3ball doesn't want to admit you can't win if you just have one-dimensional scorers on your team.

Teams need a Pippen.

You realize Pippen averaged less dimes than Kyrie whose considered a 1 dimensional scorer ball hog right? And Irving was a million times better at putting the ball in the basket and in the clutch... right?

[ShawkFactory]

You realize Pippen averaged less dimes than Kyrie whose considered a 1 dimensional scorer ball hog right? And Irving was a million times better at putting the ball in the basket and in the clutch... right?

I don't think that's what he's referring to. At least that's not how I took it.

I think it meant more like guys willing to do the dirty work, defend their ass off, crash the boards, fight for loose balls. A guy giving you that who will also give you 20 and be able to run the offense for a large part of the game is an enormous asset to a basketball team and a great-scoring first option like Jordan.

All that on a 6'7 long and athletic guy who pushes hard in transition as well? Yea...there's a reason why he was frequently all-nba and selected as a member of the Dream Team.

Does he get overrated at times? Sure. But trashing him and making him out to be much less than he really was isn't the answer. At least not to me.

[Nanners]

You realize Pippen averaged less dimes than Kyrie whose considered a 1 dimensional scorer ball hog right? And Irving was a million times better at putting the ball in the basket and in the clutch... right?

Pippen was a million times better on defense, which is what actually wins championships.

[3ba11]

The more you post the more you verify your deranged mental condition. I've never heard of high pressure open shots, it's an oxymoron and you? A simple moron. Usually, and especially when he was younger Lebron got open looks for guys who couldn't score well on their own, open lanes to easy dunks/alley oops for bigs off pnr. This method took several different mashjps of role players to playoff contention. This isn't up for debate it's in the books. In his 1st Cavs tenure he turned a guy like Hickson(who?) into a guy deemed untradable for still prime Amare Stoudamire. Big Z was damn near in a walker mobility-wise by the time they got to Miami but Lebron definitely extended his career and utility up to that point. His attention to individual teammates is rare and he maximizes guys on the floor rather than claiming to have created them in the gym. You know why the guy has so many triple doubles and near triple doubles? Because once he has a big 1st half, he looks to get his teammates involved when the inevitable doubles arrive. I admit as a Mj and Kobe fan it was sometimes frustrating to watch him piss away so many potential high scoring games with 2nd half facilitating but eventually you see the genius of it when all the role players click and the game avalanches their way. The older version can't do these things as well obviously, he's old. But so are you, too old to be this stupid for this many posts.


It's hoops 101 that players shoot better off ball movement than drive-and-kick

Seamless chemistry and ball movement will allow role players to perform better than predictable drive-and-kick where they're often covered, or rushed and out-of-rhythm, or simply haven't touched the ball in a while because the ball isn't moving and they haven't had a drive-and-kick in a while... Players shoot better on unpredictable or sneaky shots than highly-predictable plays that everyone in the arena is expecting.

It's pretty obvious that the spurs, warriors, mavs and nuggets' ball movement is a vastly superior brand of ball than Lebron-ball, which is why he has a lottery record against these teams.. The common thread Lebron's playoff losses FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS (since 2014) is massive deficits in team assists (low ball movement because Lebron is dominating the ball.. ball-domination kills ball movement... hoops 101)

[tpols]

Pippen was a million times better on defense, which is what actually wins championships.

Kyrie is a very good defender... not nearly as good as pippen but it's a false stereotype that he doesn't play defense. You don't destroy guys like Curry and Klay H2H en route to a title without that. Him and JR Smith held the splash bros to their worst playoff numbers ever in 2016 Finals.