Fantastic educational pod on Lebron right now

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtTW-aL0Nx4

[ShawkFactory]

Is that you?

[3ba11]

Is that you?


no you would know if it was me

[ShawkFactory]

no you would know if it was me

How?

You guys seem to have a hell of a lot in common.

[NBAGOAT]

Wow someone else so miserable and obsessed they’re talking about lebron during the playoffs :lol

[Phoenix]

What your thoughts on ANT-man, OP?

[ShawkFactory]

What your thoughts on ANT-man, OP?

I’d say another couple weeks at this rate and we’ll certainly see some Ant hate threads out of him.

[3ba11]

What your thoughts on ANT-man, OP?


He isn't polished - this tends to come back to bite you when shit really hits the fan in the playoffs and everything locks down - the opponent knows all your plays - that's when polish becomes important.. Herky-jerky dribbling gets stopped at that point.. Absolute MASTERY of moves (polish) is required to dominate sticky half court sets.. Can this guy just elevate and hit contested buckets consistently in the clutch? We'll see.. He has to show me - his jumper doesn't seem anywhere near MJ's.

Denver might get down 2-0 and still win this series.

[3ba11]

How?

You guys seem to have a hell of a lot in common.


I would be talking all my 3ball stuff - you would hear all the takes that you've heard on here a thousand times - the long-time posters on ISH would instantly realize "that's 3ball"

[3ba11]

What your thoughts on ANT-man, OP?


I compared Ant's Game 1 vs Nuggets to MJ against the 86' or 87' Celtics and the difference is that Ant needs to get off certain types of shots - he might need an extra dribble to get off a certain kind of shot, while MJ could shoot a far greater variety of shots and get shots off in more ways... And his passing was much better - just a much better scorer, passer, overall instinct and far superior touch on his shots (big man hands).. Also, Ant should've had about 4 dunks in Game 1 vs Nuggets - Jordan would've dunked about 4 shots that Ant did layups on

[SouBeachTalents]

I compared Ant's Game 1 vs Nuggets to MJ vs 86' or 87' Celtics and the difference is that Ant needs to get off certain types of shots - he might need an extra dribble to get off a certain kind of shot, while MJ could shoot a far greater variety of shots and get shots off in more ways... And his passing was much better - just a better scorer, passer and far superior touch on his shots (big man hands).. Also, Ant should've had about 4 dunks in Game 1 vs Nuggets - Jordan would've dunked about 4 shots that Ant did layups on
Bad comparison since Ant is actually winning these games, not going 1-9.

[3ba11]

Bad comparison since Ant is actually winning these games, not going 1-9.


Ant's first 3 seasons were as follows:



1) lottery
2) 1st Round loss (2-4)
3) 1st Round loss (1-4)


So what's worse - lottery and then 3-8, or no lottery and 1-9?

Most importantly - this year is Ant's 4th healthy season - he has an All-NBA teammate and another teammate that is candidate for goat defender - Jordan 3-peated with less..... lol... carry on

[SouBeachTalents]

Ant's first 3 seasons were as follows:



1) lottery
2) 1st Round loss (2-4)
3) 1st Round loss (1-4)


So what's worse - lottery and then 3-8, or no lottery and 1-9?

Most importantly - this year is Ant's 4th healthy season - he has an All-NBA teammate and another teammate that is candidate for goat defender - Jordan 3-peated with less..... lol... carry on
Jordan 3-peated with a team that won 55 games without him.

[tpols]

Ant's first 3 seasons were as follows:



1) lottery
2) 1st Round loss (2-4)
3) 1st Round loss (1-4)


So what's worse - lottery and then 3-8, or no lottery and 1-9?

Most importantly - this year is Ant's 4th healthy season - he has an All-NBA teammate and another teammate that is candidate for goat defender - Jordan 3-peated with less..... lol... carry on

I dont think anybody needs to say Ant is the GOAT but he actually does have what you said he doesn't. His midrange game and skill last night was MJ-esque and he can actually dribble with his left hand.


https://youtu.be/xUIOcMSGHKk?si=O8vs4r3qnw6BCoFc

He was icing them from midrange in the clutch too.

[3ba11]

Jordan 3-peated with a team that won 55 games without him.


No he didn't 3-peat with that team

Jordan didn't have a futuristic spacer that draws bigs away from the rim and invaluable "closer" like Kukoc during the 1st three-peat.... And he returned from baseball to a borderline .500 team, which he turned into the GOAT team for the 2nd three-peat...

so no...

(btw, similar to Jamal Murray, Kukoc's clutch won about 15 games for the 94' Bulls, including 4 game-winners).

The reality is that opponents were no longer circling their calendars or planning what to tell grandkids - no one cared about playing the 94' Bulls - it was a huge letdown - but once opponents woke up in the playoffs and the following season, the Bulls were 2nd Round losers and borderline .500 in 95'.. It was a classic one-off fluke.

The problem with the "55-win" argument is that Pippen is not a 55-win franchise player that can could build a lottery team into contender or have a real 50-win team that wins 50 every year.. This requires big producers like Hakeem, Luka, MJ or Embiid, so they can carry bad teams and eventually contend - Pippen isn't an elite producer like that - he was simply handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever and wrecked the car within 18 months.. He was begging MJ to return and save his .500 team.

[3ba11]

I dont think anybody needs to say Ant is the GOAT but he actually does have what you said he doesn't. His midrange game and skill last night was MJ-esque and he can actually dribble with his left hand.


https://youtu.be/xUIOcMSGHKk?si=O8vs4r3qnw6BCoFc

He was icing them from midrange in the clutch too.


Bear with me here for a sec.

Bird and Magic's super-teams could barely hang with the Bad Boys, while there were plenty of people that thought MJ could possibly beat the Bad Boys by himself in 88', 89', or 90'... Accordingly, Jordan would easily 3-peat with an All-NBA teammate like KAT and another teammate that was the GOAT defender (Gobert).. One of the reasons that Jordan had to play goat defense is because he never had rim protection, so imagine how much more energy he would have with a teammate like Gobert.

(btw, the only reason that MJ didn't win in 89' or 90' is because Pippen missed the closeout games in 89' (Games 5 and 6) and 90' (Game 7).

Regarding the pure skill comparison - Ant has to take certain kinds of jumpshots - he might need an extra dribble to get off a certain kind of jumpshot, while MJ could shoot a far greater variety of jumpshots and get shots off in more ways... And that's just the jumpshooting - their rim attack isn't comparable at all - Ant's shot-making around the rim is rudimentary by comparison.

go back and watch MJ drop 49 on the Celtics in Game 1 of the 86' 1st Round, or watch MJ drop 35-40 against the 87' Celtics - his jumpshooting and scoring ability is a completely different level from Ant.. Ant does predictable things in the mid-range, while Jordan did alien things in the mid-range that guys can't dream of doing (let me know if you need a few examples).

[NBAGOAT]

Bear with me here for a sec.

Bird and Magic's super-teams could barely hang with the Bad Boys, while there were plenty of people that thought MJ could possibly beat the Bad Boys by himself in 88', 89', or 90'... Accordingly, Jordan would easily 3-peat with an All-NBA teammate like KAT and another teammate that was the GOAT defender (Gobert).. One of the reasons that Jordan had to play goat defense is because he never had rim protection, so imagine how much more energy he would have with a teammate like Gobert.

(btw, the only reason that MJ didn't win in 89' or 90' is because Pippen missed the closeout games in 89' (Games 5 and 6) and 90' (Game 7).

Regarding the pure skill comparison - Ant has to take certain kinds of jumpshots - he might need an extra dribble to get off a certain kind of jumpshot, while MJ could shoot a far greater variety of jumpshots and get shots off in more ways... And that's just the jumpshooting - their rim attack isn't comparable at all - Ant's shot-making around the rim is rudimentary by comparison.

go back and watch MJ drop 49 on the Celtics in Game 1 of the 86' 1st Round, or watch MJ drop 35-40 against the 87' Celtics - his jumpshooting and scoring ability is a completely different level from Ant.. Ant does predictable things in the mid-range, while Jordan did alien things in the mid-range that guys can't dream of doing (let me know if you need a few examples).

I’ll have to keep in mind you think gobert is a much better defender than rodman, that’s a spicy take. I like kat a lot too but he’s nothing special by your own criteria puts up like 21ppg

[3ba11]

I’ll have to keep in mind you think gobert is a much better defender than rodman, that’s a spicy take. I like kat a lot too but he’s nothing special by your own criteria puts up like 21ppg


33-year old Ben Wallace was a goat defender for Lebron in 2008 and 2009 right?... Or Shaq was a goat in 2010 for lebron?

Similarly, 36-year Rodman was a fossil and wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98' - he averaged 3/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs..

So you can't compare prime Gobert to old Ben Wallace, old Shaq, or old Rodman

Again, Jordan 3-peated with a trash cast compared to what Ant has now - should we go down the rosters man-for-man?

[NBAGOAT]

33-year old Ben Wallace was a goat defender for Lebron in 2008 and 2009 right?... Or Shaq was a goat in 2010 for lebron?

Similarly, 36-year Rodman was a fossil and wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98' - he averaged 3/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs..

So you can't compare prime Gobert to old Ben Wallace, old Shaq, or old Rodman

Again, Jordan 3-peated with a trash cast compared to what Ant has now - should we go down the rosters man-for-man?

Gobert is 31. He looked really good game 1 and even more mobile but he’s arguably a bit past his prime too. He was anchoring teams with no good defenders to top 3 defenses. As good as he is now he was altering even more shots at the rim in his Utah days. Now he has other good defenders around him so not carrying as hard and individual metrics paint the same picture.

I would like to see you go down the rosters man to man since youre likely clueless about half of Minnys rotation besides their ppg

[SouBeachTalents]

Gobert is 31. He looked really good game 1 and even more mobile but he’s arguably a bit past his prime too. He was anchoring teams with no good defenders to top 3 defenses. As good as he is now he was altering even more shots at the rim in his Utah days. Now he has other good defenders around him so not carrying as hard and individual metrics paint the same picture.

I would like to see you go down the rosters man to man since youre likely clueless about half of Minnys rotation besides their ppg
:oldlol:

[3ba11]

Gobert is 31. He looked really good game 1 and even more mobile but he’s arguably a bit past his prime too. He was anchoring teams with no good defenders to top 3 defenses. As good as he is now he was altering even more shots at the rim in his Utah days. Now he has other good defenders around him so not carrying as hard and individual metrics paint the same picture.

I would like to see you go down the rosters man to man since youre likely clueless about half of Minnys rotation besides their ppg


KAT was good right away and didn't need years of coddling or a system like Pippen did - Pippen was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle and there was no guarantee that the 8 ppg rookie was going to make it without landing alongside Jordan and having several years to develop.. He could never build a contender on his own and was simply handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94 - he proceeded to wreck the car within 18 months because the Bulls were barely .500 and begging for MJ to return in 95'.

So I'll take KAT over Pippen all day and twice on sunday.. I probably take Gobert over Pippen too, but definitely KAT over Pippen...

So KAT over Pippen and Gobert over Cartwright... And Mike Conley destroys Paxson... Naz Reid and McDaniels is like having 2 Horace Grants - two guys that average 11 ppg and play good defense.. So the Wolves' roster is easily superior to the 1st three-peat Bulls, which means that MJ would easily 3-peat with this roster.

[Phoenix]

I compared Ant's Game 1 vs Nuggets to MJ against the 86' or 87' Celtics and the difference is that Ant needs to get off certain types of shots - he might need an extra dribble to get off a certain kind of shot, while MJ could shoot a far greater variety of shots and get shots off in more ways... And his passing was much better - just a much better scorer, passer, overall instinct and far superior touch on his shots (big man hands).. Also, Ant should've had about 4 dunks in Game 1 vs Nuggets - Jordan would've dunked about 4 shots that Ant did layups on

When I ask for your thoughts on him, your first and only instinct is to compare him to MJ and frankly I tuned out by your first sentence. Not every basketball conversation and player analysis needs to have MJ in proximity. That's why you come off as a one-note banjo.

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball has literally never seen anyone on the Wolves play before, he's admitted he hasn't watched games in 15 years, and it shows in his posts.

[3ba11]

When I ask for your thoughts on him, your first and only instinct is to compare him to MJ and frankly I tuned out by your first sentence. Not every player and basketball conversation and player analysis needs to have MJ in proximity.


MJ is the standard that everyone is compared to - that's why he's GOAT

But Anthony Edwards is the next Wade.... And he's in line with today's player that needs NEAT shots, which means a little more set up time - this will cost him later in the series when he's getting shut down - he lacks polish (complete mastery of a move/shot) - he's all power right now, which is exploitable...

If he was on a 1-man team like MJ and facing max defensive attention, he would be getting completely shut down and/or shooting under 40%.. He's lucky that he has some pretty good teammates that can "take over" themselves and attract legit defensive attention themselves.

[Phoenix]

MJ is the standard that everyone is compared to - that's why he's GOAT

But Anthony Edwards is the next Wade.... And he's in line with today's player that needs NEAT shots, which means a little more set up time - this will cost him later in the series when he's getting shut down - he lacks polish (complete mastery of a move/shot) - he's all power right now, which is exploitable...

If he was on a 1-man team like MJ and facing max defensive attention, he would be getting completely shut down and/or shooting under 40%.. He's lucky that he has some pretty good teammates that can "take over" themselves and attract legit defensive attention themselves.

But I didn't ask you to build a case for him as MJ. Nothing in my post suggested that I thought he was a threat to MJ, a GOAT candidate, or anything of the like that necessitated another boring pro-MJ ramble. I just asked for your thoughts on him. But the question was intentional and you were true to form. If I asked you for your favorite pizza topping you'd segway it into an MJ/Lebron comparison before your first sentence ended.

[NBAGOAT]

KAT was good right away and didn't need years of coddling or a system like Pippen did - Pippen was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle and there was no guarantee that the 8 ppg rookie was going to make it without landing alongside Jordan and having several years to develop.. He could never build a contender on his own and was simply handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94 - he proceeded to wreck the car within 18 months because the Bulls were barely .500 and begging for MJ to return in 95'.

So I'll take KAT over Pippen all day and twice on sunday.. I probably take Gobert over Pippen too, but definitely KAT over Pippen...

So KAT over Pippen and Gobert over Cartwright... And Mike Conley destroys Paxson... Naz Reid and McDaniels is like having 2 Horace Grants - two guys that average 11 ppg and play good defense.. So the Wolves' roster is easily superior to the 1st three-peat Bulls, which means that MJ would easily 3-peat with this roster.

What evidence is there you can build a contender around kat lol. The 1 1st rd exit in his first 6 years where jimmy was the lead guy. He’s never gonna be the lead guy on a title team. This year is a good litmus test of can he be the 2nd guy since wolves are kinda stacked with depth.

Gobert should be compared to grant. Goberts bpm this year 1.8. Grant bpm 91-93 2.5, 5.3, 1.8. Both score 13-15ppg gobert better defender and rebounder grant better passer and floor spacer. Seems comparable to me.

Calling naz and Jaden who are just 5th starter types grant lvl is garbage analysis. Better than bulls depth sure but that’s all. Naz isn’t that strong on defense Jaden isn’t on offense. Both neutral ish by epm. Only thing you got right is conley over paxson but bj is a closer argument

[ShawkFactory]

I’d say another couple weeks at this rate and we’ll certainly see some Ant hate threads out of him.

Happened quicker than expected :lol

[Phoenix]

Happened quicker than expected :lol

Yep, like clockwork.

[ShawkFactory]

Yep, like clockwork.

We already got KAT > Pippen :lol