22-yr old Kobe was champ, 1st option over peak Shaq vs Spurs & BETTER than 22-yr Ant

[3ba11]

Ant vs 24' Nuggets........... 33/5/5

Kobe vs 01' Spurs............ 33/7/7
Shaq vs 01' Spurs............ 27/13/3


22-year old Kobe was far superior in every aspect of basketball than Ant

This proves that Ant isn't the next MJ since he's can't even match Kobe

[Bawkish]

1-9

[1987_Lakers]

Haven't been on here much recently, since when did OP become so insecure about Edwards? :oldlol:

[Bawkish]

Haven't been on here much recently, since when did OP become so insecure about Edwards? :oldlol:

You didn't missed anything really, this is OP on a regular Tuesday

[SouBeachTalents]

https://p16-va.lemon8cdn.com/tos-alisg-v-a3e477-sg/62665394b6744210a78472e0b267321c~tplv-tej9nj120t-origin.webp

[red1]

Haven't been on here much recently, since when did OP become so insecure about Edwards? :oldlol:


3ball will never change. kid is mentally ill.


he's ****ed until he dies.

[sd3035]

Haven't been on here much recently, since when did OP become so insecure about Edwards? :oldlol:


The guy basically said it's an insult to be compared to Jordan because he's a better shooter

I think that rubbed OP the wrong way

[AirBonner]

Edwards vs Jokic is very similar to MJ vs Larry Bird

[SouBeachTalents]

Edwards vs Jokic is very similar to MJ vs Larry Bird
Except Edwards actually wins games against Jokic.

[Bawkish]

Except Edwards actually wins games against Jokic.

Edwards didn't have crack addicts as teammates

[3ba11]

Except Edwards actually wins games against Jokic.


Jordan never had as much help as Ant has now and beat the Bad Boys or 98' Jazz with less help than Ant has now

And don't start comparing 36-year Rodman to the GOAT defender in Gobert or I'll have to bring up 33-year Ben Wallace in 08' and 09', or Shaq in 2010.. It's ridiculous to try to inflate clearly bad and old players.. Ant also had the 6MOY and "length everywhere" according your genius IQ Lebron.

Oh shit Ant's numbers went down again after his 2nd game of less than 20 points, so I'll have to adjust the OP... He's only averaging 30 now against a team with no great defenders and not known for defense.. lol.. and single-coverage most of the time because he's just a "down-hill" player, so teams prefer to face this weaker brand than ball movement.. carry on

[tpols]

And a lot of the clowns around here acted like Kobe was carried and a "sidekick" ring don't count etc. :lol Guy put up better numbers in an era where they were way more suppressed.

[Axe]

And a lot of the clowns around here acted like Kobe was carried and a "sidekick" ring don't count etc. :lol Guy put up better numbers in an era where they were way more suppressed.
This would have been convincing had kobe won a finals mvp on his first few years in the league. :ohwell:

[ImKobe]

This would have been convincing had kobe won a finals mvp on his first few years in the league. :ohwell:

Yes, because a Finals MVP discredits the previous 3 rounds in '01 and him being the best 4th quarter/clutch player in the Playoffs that year.. People don't do this shit with Duncan, they give him full credit for '07 and '14 and he wasn't FMVP then.

[StrongLurk]

Yes, because a Finals MVP discredits the previous 3 rounds in '01 and him being the best 4th quarter/clutch player in the Playoffs that year.. People don't do this shit with Duncan, they give him full credit for '07 and '14 and he wasn't FMVP then.

Your statement is completely untrue about Duncan. In fact, no one thinks about him at all, which is clearly worse than whatever perspective fans have on Kobe.

But yes, when discussing the GOAT standard, you in fact do need the FMVP to go along with your rings. It's why MJ stands at the top still and why Lebron stands in second place all time.

[ImKobe]

Your statement is completely untrue about Duncan. In fact, no one thinks about him at all, which is clearly worse than whatever perspective fans have on Kobe.

But yes, when discussing the GOAT standard, you in fact do need the FMVP to go along with your rings. It's why MJ stands at the top still and why Lebron stands in second place all time.

It's not. People count his 5 rings like he won them all as the best player on the team. I only really see the FMVP argument used against Kobe and Steph to discredit what they did in the runs that they weren't FMVP. I'm not talking about Kobe vs MJ here. You're not a sidekick just because you didn't win FMVP. Was Steph a sidekick in 2015? Of course not, he was clearly the best player on the team, even when they robbed him of his Finals MVP.

[Axe]

Yes, because a Finals MVP discredits the previous 3 rounds in '01 and him being the best 4th quarter/clutch player in the Playoffs that year.. People don't do this shit with Duncan, they give him full credit for '07 and '14 and he wasn't FMVP then.
Dude, the lakers used to be stacked bt. And we all know that shaq was the veteran alpha of the team during those days...

[StrongLurk]

It's not. People count his 5 rings like he won them all as the best player on the team. I only really see the FMVP argument used against Kobe and Steph to discredit what they did in the runs that they weren't FMVP. I'm not talking about Kobe vs MJ here. You're not a sidekick just because you didn't win FMVP. Was Steph a sidekick in 2015? Of course not, he was clearly the best player on the team, even when they robbed him of his Finals MVP.

No one does that with Duncan. Everyone knows TP and Kawhi came away with FMVPs and no one considered Duncan the best player on the 07/14 teams.

Also Curry did not play well enough to win FMVP in 2015.

You need the FMVP along with the ring when discussing the GOAT standard. MJ set this standard for the modern era. It is what it is.

[ImKobe]

Dude, the lakers used to be stacked bt. And we all know that shaq was the alpha of the team during those days...

Lol yet Phil and Shaq both treated Kobe as the best player in the world during that '01 title run. How was Shaq the alpha when Kobe was the best clutch/4th quarter player in the Playoffs and was clearly the better player through 3 rounds of that run? Beating down on an inferior Sixers' squad that had no chance of winning the series does not change what KB did that year.

[Axe]

Lol yet Phil and Shaq both treated Kobe as the best player in the world during that '01 title run. How was Shaq the alpha when Kobe was the best clutch/4th quarter player in the Playoffs and was clearly the better player through 3 rounds of that run? Beating down on an inferior Sixers' squad that had no chance of winning the series does not change what KB did that year.
Maybe. I won't ruin you if that's what you think about their playoff run 23 years ago. But it doesn't change the fact that kobe was still young before and in the process of maturing while shaq was at the right age plus his huge size made him more badass that fitted the definition of being a true alpha.

[Lebron23]

Always knew you were a Kobetard. The worst finals performer among the top 12 players of all time

[Carbine]

No one does that with Duncan. Everyone knows TP and Kawhi came away with FMVPs and no one considered Duncan the best player on the 07/14 teams.

Also Curry did not play well enough to win FMVP in 2015.

You need the FMVP along with the ring when discussing the GOAT standard. MJ set this standard for the modern era. It is what it is.

Duncan was unequivocally the best player on the '07 Spurs. Unless you mean just the finals of '07, which was a debate. If you value 6 extra ppg on better efficiency over a massive massive advantage on defense for Duncan, massive edge in the boards, had more assists, less turnovers than Parker too.

Bowen + Duncan's defensive prowess in slowing Bron down was the biggest reason they swept the Cavs. It also started the fast break where Parker did a lot of his damage.

[FireDavidKahn]

Haven't been on here much recently, since when did OP become so insecure about Edwards? :oldlol:

It's weird because Ant is an old school player.

3ball should be ALL over him.:roll:

[NBAGOAT]

ant will improve more than kobe did from 01 to his prime. 01 likely a top 5 year in kobes career

[3ba11]

It's weird because Ant is an old school player.

3ball should be ALL over him.:roll:


How is Ant old-school?

He's a typical modern player that seeks 3's and layups via a "down-hill" style that isn't 5-man basketball, so it lacks the chemistry needed for great-performing casts, aka great teams.

So he isn't old-school at all - he embodies the new school ball-dominance as much as anyone.. And his mid-range efficiency is horrific, along with his efficiency on paint shots outside the restricted - these areas are where players in previous eras LIVED... It's true that previous eras have the same edge on 2-pointers that today's era has on 3's.

Of course, MJ shot better on threes at today's volumes than Ant.. From 85-93', MJ shot 36.4% on threes in games where he had 3+ attempts, and 39% in series with 3+ attempts (regular line only)... Since MJ always shot well at today's volumes without practice (36-39%), he would shoot over 40% with practice in today's game.

[WhiteKyrie]

I would consider them about equal. 2024 nuggets are better than the 2001 Spurs, I think.

They’re both led by a similar quality level of superstar, but Denver has the superior talented supporting cast. Particularly second, third and fourth options … they also played in a much more competitive western conference this year, their record is basically the exact same, but Denver played in a deeper western conference.

Not only that but Kobe Bryant was playing off prime/Peak Shaquille O’Neal. Anthony Edwards next best player is often inconsistent, and soft as hell Karl Anthony Towns.

[WhiteKyrie]

Playoffs 2001 Spurs after Duncan

David Robinson 17 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg
Antonio Daniels 14 ppg, 2 rpg, 3 apg
Derek Anderson 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg

Playoff 2024 Nuggets after Jokic

Jamal Murray 19 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg
Michael Porter 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 1 apg
Aaron Gordon 15 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg

I forgot how beastly David Robinson still was even though he was no longer a superstar, but besides their interior defense, which should affect Shaquille O’Neal the most. The nugget supporting cast is way better, both offensively and especially defensively. On the perimeter, primarily, which is what Ant is going up against. KCP and Gordon are good defenders.

[ImKobe]

ant will improve more than kobe did from 01 to his prime. 01 likely a top 5 year in kobes career

Could've said the same for Wade in '06. Shit happens man. This is Ant's athletic peak. Kobe's athletic prime/peak lasted until '03 and he had so many injuries after that but he was definitely far more skilled in the late 2000s compared to his '00-'03 self.

[WhiteKyrie]

Young Wade didn’t show as much skill and refinement as current Ant.

[rmt]

Your statement is completely untrue about Duncan. In fact, no one thinks about him at all, which is clearly worse than whatever perspective fans have on Kobe.

But yes, when discussing the GOAT standard, you in fact do need the FMVP to go along with your rings. It's why MJ stands at the top still and why Lebron stands in second place all time.

I guess you think Iggy deserved the FMVP over Steph. It should be the player most important to winning.

As far as 2007 Finals, the most important thing was defending/neutralizing Lebron - Bowen shadowing him and Duncan keeping him out of the lane (since Lebron's jump shot was crap back then) - not a favorable (offensive) matchup vs a hobbled Boobie Gibson. Spurs' (veteran, versatile, excellent offense/defense) win was never in doubt after limiting Lebron.

The Spurs' focus was on limiting Shaq - not Kobe. That's (past) prime DRob on Shaq with prime Duncan helping. Similar to Ben Wallace, Rasheed and McDyess on Duncan. Calling Kobe (or Manu) 1st option is a farce - Shaq was a BEAST.

[tpols]

Playoffs 2001 Spurs after Duncan

David Robinson 17 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg
Antonio Daniels 14 ppg, 2 rpg, 3 apg
Derek Anderson 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg

Playoff 2024 Nuggets after Jokic

Jamal Murray 19 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg
Michael Porter 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 1 apg
Aaron Gordon 15 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg

I forgot how beastly David Robinson still was even though he was no longer a superstar, but besides their interior defense, which should affect Shaquille O’Neal the most. The nugget supporting cast is way better, both offensively and especially defensively. On the perimeter, primarily, which is what Ant is going up against. KCP and Gordon are good defenders.

The Spurs defense was easily better than Denvers. They were the number 1 rank in the NBA and held teams to an absurd 88 ppg. The Nuggets are only 8th rank and give up 110 ppg. The Spurs also won more games.

They would give Jokic and Denver fits. Tim Duncan and Drob are top 5 all time defenders. And Kobe was smashing on them. With Murray playing like crap San Antonio is the better team.

[BarberSchool]

Jordan and Kobe don’t need anyone to defend their superiority to Ant.

Anyone whose opinion actually matters, in any room, already knows Ant will have a very hard time coming close to either of them. But Ant’s athleticism is certainly a big draw, and similar enough; for those marketing him at all levels of advertising and the media, to push the unfair (unfair to Ant) comparisons.

Just let Ant be great in his own. He can be truly great, just by being Wade with a better J. He doesn’t have to be Kobe or Mike.

[tpols]

A lot of people act like Kobe destroyed San Antonio only because Shaq was there. But we have the tape.


https://youtu.be/QVnDLP8xKE4?si=ZQI6YWcmkvJgbMNl

Every single one of his finishes he was sandwiched by 2-3 players.

@1:12 is the most ridiculous if you watch it. After beating his man he slammed on Drob and Duncan while being totally sandwiched between them with Shaq literally doing nothing.

[3ba11]

A lot of people act like Kobe destroyed San Antonio only because Shaq was there. But we have the tape.


https://youtu.be/QVnDLP8xKE4?si=ZQI6YWcmkvJgbMNl

Every single one of his finishes he was sandwiched by 2-3 players.

@1:12 is the most ridiculous if you watch it. After beating his man he slammed on Drob and Duncan while being totally sandwiched between them with Shaq literally doing nothing.


The sheer variety of his shot-making - it's another level from Ant - Ant seeks 3's and layups via downhill skillset, which can't develop the great chemistry needed for a great-performing cast, aka great team.. Kobe gives defenses far more looks - infinite number of looks

[tpols]

The sheer variety of his shot-making - it's another level from Ant - Ant seeks 3's and layups via downhill skillset, which can't develop the great chemistry needed for a great-performing cast, aka great team.. Kobe gives defenses far more looks - infinite number of looks


I mean... Ànt is nice bro. His main weakness people are discounting is he's short compared to MJ and Kobe.

Look, if Kobe destroyed drob and Duncan at the rim imagine how easily he would dispatch jokic. It would be a dunk fest contest.

[3ba11]

I mean... Ànt is nice bro. His main weakness people are discounting is he's short compared to MJ and Kobe.

Look, if Kobe destroyed drob and Duncan at the rim imagine how easily he would dispatch jokic. It would be a dunk fest contest.


Yeah seriously, Duncan and DRob were no resistance for Kobe, so it's hard to imagine how great he would be against Jokic's resistance... Where's the rim protection to stop Kobe and he would be facing Jamal Murray as his defender - Murray is talior-made for someone like Kobe.

[WhiteKyrie]

The Spurs defense was easily better than Denvers. They were the number 1 rank in the NBA and held teams to an absurd 88 ppg. The Nuggets are only 8th rank and give up 110 ppg. The Spurs also won more games.

They would give Jokic and Denver fits. Tim Duncan and Drob are top 5 all time defenders. And Kobe was smashing on them. With Murray playing like crap San Antonio is the better team.
The most impactful elements of that San Antonio defense is in the interior. Not the perimeter. They were super weak on the perimeter. That’s why it’s hilarious when anybody acts like the 1990s Spurs would’ve beat the Michael Jordan 1999 Chicago Bulls if they didn’t get broken up a season early. Their perimeter defense was weak as shit so yes, the San Antonio Spurs of that season would be considered the better defense, Anthony Edwards is facing better. Perimeter defenders against the Nuggets. Listen, what’s with the insecurity? Why are we bringing up Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in regards to 22-year-old Anthony Edwards who is having a stunning playoffs why is there insecurity, nobody saying he’s better than Michael and Kobe. With that said the Denver Nuggets had the exact same record, playing in a far deeper and more difficult western conference with far more offensive talent to make you work on the other end compared to the 2001 San Antonio Spurs. And 22-year-old Anthony Edwards is not playing with prime Shaquille O’Neal … he is definitely facing better perimeter defenders than Kobe Bryant faced against the 2001 San Antonio Spurs. Point-blank end of story.

[3ba11]

The most impactful elements of that San Antonio defense is in the interior. Not the perimeter. They were super weak on the perimeter. That’s why it’s hilarious when anybody acts like the 1990s Spurs would’ve beat the Michael Jordan 1999 Chicago Bulls if they didn’t get broken up a season early. Their perimeter defense was weak as shit so yes, the San Antonio Spurs of that season would be considered the better defense, Anthony Edwards is facing better. Perimeter defenders against the Nuggets. Listen, what’s with the insecurity? Why are we bringing up Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in regards to 22-year-old Anthony Edwards who is having a stunning playoffs why is there insecurity, nobody saying he’s better than Michael and Kobe. With that said the Denver Nuggets had the exact same record, playing in a far deeper and more difficult western conference with far more offensive talent to make you work on the other end compared to the 2001 San Antonio Spurs. And 22-year-old Anthony Edwards is not playing with prime Shaquille O’Neal … he is definitely facing better perimeter defenders than Kobe Bryant faced against the 2001 San Antonio Spurs. Point-blank end of story.


Ant faces zero perimeter defense because the rules mandate that defenders cannot hand-check and also cannot "impede" the ball-handler in any way, aka they aren't allowed to play defense... no impeding = no defense... Lane penetration is simply automatic in today's game..

So your argument holds no water based on the rules alone.... And also based on personnel - Ant's matchup is Jamal Murray, who plays worse defense than Antonio Daniels in 2001, and obviously Bruce Bowen in 2002... People forget that Kobe was 1st option over Shaq against the Spurs in 2002 as well... Then Kobe destroyed Bowen again in 2008 by himself.

Of course there's the rim protection issue - today's game offers zero perimeter defense and also zero rim protection compared to what Kobe faced... So your argument fails on many levels.

[tpols]

The most impactful elements of that San Antonio defense is in the interior. Not the perimeter. They were super weak on the perimeter. That’s why it’s hilarious when anybody acts like the 1990s Spurs would’ve beat the Michael Jordan 1999 Chicago Bulls if they didn’t get broken up a season early. Their perimeter defense was weak as shit so yes, the San Antonio Spurs of that season would be considered the better defense, Anthony Edwards is facing better. Perimeter defenders against the Nuggets. Listen, what’s with the insecurity? Why are we bringing up Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in regards to 22-year-old Anthony Edwards who is having a stunning playoffs why is there insecurity, nobody saying he’s better than Michael and Kobe. With that said the Denver Nuggets had the exact same record, playing in a far deeper and more difficult western conference with far more offensive talent to make you work on the other end compared to the 2001 San Antonio Spurs. And 22-year-old Anthony Edwards is not playing with prime Shaquille O’Neal … he is definitely facing better perimeter defenders than Kobe Bryant faced against the 2001 San Antonio Spurs. Point-blank end of story.


Thats... total bullshit. Denvers perimeter defense is mid at best and their rim protection is trash. The Spurs whole defense was super elite and way better than Denvers. "Point blank".

Additionally, as was directly shown to you Kobe was finishing over Duncan AND Robinson in the paint totally sandwiched with Shaq out of the equation.

I gave you tape coach. You gave me bullshit. If you think Ant has it easier vs Denver than Kobe did vs the #1 ranked defense spurs you're out of your mind.

[ImKobe]

Thats... total bullshit. Denvers perimeter defense is mid at best and their rim protection is trash. The Spurs whole defense was super elite and way better than Denvers. "Point blank".

Additionally, as was directly shown to you Kobe was finishing over Duncan AND Robinson in the paint totally sandwiched with Shaq out of the equation.

I gave you tape coach. You gave me bullshit. If you think Ant has it easier vs Denver than Kobe did vs the #1 ranked defense spurs you're out of your mind.

Let him cope lol. He's not worth wasting time over. Anyone who knows ball knows that it was much harder to put up those numbers back then, even against mediocre defenses.