Lebron missed the Finals 11 times - the "decision" was b/c he COULDNT make the Finals

[3ba11]

He was a 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight before he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team.

So the argument that "it's better to make the Finals" doesn't apply to Lebron since he missed more Finals than MJ and most players - he couldn't make multiple Finals until he rejected "normal" casts of 1 franchise player and pursued 3 franchise players on 1 team (super-team).

Lebron is simply the biggest loser of all-time by virtue of the worst record on the championship level and also more bad losses than anyone in history (sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, goat chokes, goat meltdowns, losses with 2 all-star teammates, lock up in a loss (08')) - no one has more bad losses than Lebron.

[John8204]

Well I would say 9 times as he made the conference finals twice to go along with his NBA finals appearances.

Also you are making the case that Chris Bosh is better than Howard, Pierce, Garnett...etc. Hey question how many playoff series did Wade, Bosh, and Love win?

[3ba11]

.

2010 Wade............. 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe.............. 21 PER... 4.4 BPM

* Wade was #2 across the board in 2010 (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)



Well I would say 9 times as he made the conference finals twice to go along with his NBA finals appearances.

Also you are making the case that Chris Bosh is better than Howard, Pierce, Garnett...etc. Hey question how many playoff series did Wade, Bosh, and Love win?


Wade was the 2nd best player in the league in 2010 (see stats above), so it's splitting hairs regarding Bosh and fossil Pierce or KG - KG was basically Horace Grant after the catastrophic injury in 09' - this has never been enough help for Pierce, who was also older, so the Celtics only won 50 in 2010.

[John8204]

.

2010 Wade............. 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe.............. 21 PER... 4.4 BPM

* Wade was #2 across the board in 2010 (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)


2010 would be the year that Boston beat him in five games in the first round....because Wade without Shaq or Lebron couldn't win anything.

[warriorfan]

.

2010 Wade............. 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe.............. 21 PER... 4.4 BPM

* Wade was #2 across the board in 2010 (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)





Wade was the 2nd best player in the league in 2010 (see stats above), so it's splitting hairs regarding Bosh and fossil Pierce or KG - KG was basically Horace Grant after the catastrophic injury in 09' - this has never been enough help for Pierce, who was also older, so the Celtics only won 50 in 2010.



In his last season in (2014) before playing with LeBron James, Kevin Love averaged 26.1/12.5/4.4/.591 TS%

The only 2 players to ever have that stat line are

https://i.postimg.cc/MHK1G4DZ/FC2-E0-D3-D-B0-C6-4978-B091-479490-FB49-DE.jpg

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=26.1&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=12.5&c3stat=ast_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4.4&c4stat=ts_pct&c4comp=gt&c4val=.591&order_by=ws

1. Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar in 72
2. Kevin Love 14



Edit: Giannis has done it since making him the third person.

[Duffy Pratt]

Why do this?

LeBron’s teams missed the finals in 11 of his 21 seasons - that’s 52%.

Jordan’s teams missed the finals in 9 of 15 seasons - that’s 60%.

This is a stat that easily gets turned in LeBron’s favor. You are just reaching for shit.

By the way, if this is the measuring stick, Russell still wins.

[Axe]

Why do this?

LeBron’s teams missed the finals in 11 of his 21 seasons - that’s 52%.

Jordan’s teams missed the finals in 9 of 15 seasons - that’s 60%.

This is a stat that easily gets turned in LeBron’s favor. You are just reaching for shit.

By the way, if this is the measuring stick, Russell still wins.
On top of that, jordan also missed the playoffs while in a wizards jersey.

[WhiteKyrie]

He made it to the Finals in ‘07. So that’s dumb. The 2008 Celtics coming together really altered the landscape, especially in the lesser talented East. Wade and LeBron were solo acts vs those Celtics teams. Kobe struggled with them and by comparison he had a squad.

[3ba11]

Why do this?

LeBron’s teams missed the finals in 11 of his 21 seasons - that’s 52%.

Jordan’s teams missed the finals in 9 of 15 seasons - that’s 60%.

This is a stat that easily gets turned in LeBron’s favor. You are just reaching for shit.

By the way, if this is the measuring stick, Russell still wins.


52% vs 60%.... meh.... not a big gap regarding winning the East especially when 1 guy colluded

now compare winning the LEAGUE (Finals record)

lol

[3ba11]

He made it to the Finals in ‘07.





So did Iverson, Kidd and Dwight, so Lebron is a 1-trick pony like those guys until he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team.






The 2008 Celtics coming together really altered the landscape





For 1 year... Garnett got hurt in 2009, so Lebron faced Dwight as a -700 favorite, but still lost.. The Magic's all-star point guard was out for the series, so Dwight had the injury excuse but still won... That's like Lebron winning the 15' Finals or something.

After Garnett's injury in 2009, he returned as Horace Grant in 2010 (14/7) - this isn't enough help for a guy like Pierce, so the Celtics only won 50 games and were massive underdog in 2010 Playoffs..

Btw, the Heat started over as a team after Wade's injury in 2008, whereas Lebron had a Year 7 organic juggernaut and league favorite in 2010.. Part of this organic growth was receiving the all-star spacing that Lebron's stiff arm needed in 2009, which added 19 more wins.. Then Jamison/Shaq were added to a 66-win league favorite in 2010.. So there's no comparison to Wade's 2nd or 3rd year team (starting over after his injury) and Lebron's year 7 organic juggernaut.

But it's interesting because Wade dominated those Celtics (33 on 56%), while Lebron played poorly (26 on 45%).. Wade was better than lebron at that time and this was confirmed when wade was 1st option over Lebron for the 2011 Playoffs.. When Lebron finally got past the Celtics that year, it was Wade that led the heat in scoring and assists... That's like Bird coming along and leading the Bulls when MJ finally got past the Pistons in 1991... lol

[StrongLurk]

OP only made this thread because he got destroyed in MY thread about Lebron being the second best winner in the modern era :roll:

[3ba11]

OP only made this thread because he got destroyed in MY thread about Lebron being the second best winner in the modern era :roll:


The thread title debunks your argument - Lebron missed the Finals more than anyone and formed super-teams specifically because he couldn't make the Finals from 08-10' and had historic upset losses.. he's just a 1-trick pony like Iverson and Dwight without his super-teams, which debunks your argument.

[StrongLurk]

The thread title debunks your argument - Lebron missed the Finals more than anyone and formed super-teams specifically because he couldn't make the Finals from 08-10' and had historic upset losses.. he's just a 1-trick pony like Iverson and Dwight without his super-teams, which debunks your argument.

4 FINALS MVPs. Just that statement debunks your whole thread. Keep crying about it :roll:

[3ba11]

4 FINALS MVPs. Just that statement debunks your whole thread. Keep crying about it :roll:


6 losses on the championship level plus 11 before the Finals, and massively-losing records with every cast... 1/4 with AD, Love, or Wade (except the Allen miracle)... he's a complete joke and the biggest loser ever.

[StrongLurk]

6 losses on the championship level plus 11 before the Finals, and massively-losing records with every cast... 1/4 with AD, Love, or Wade (except the Allen miracle)... he's a complete joke and the biggest loser ever.

No one cares about losses because EVERYONE loses more than they win. That's why you are using troll/hater logic. What everyone DOESNT do is win FMVP. That is rare air.

Lebron's 4FMVPs debunks your "biggest loser ever" nonsense. IF you want to be a little bitch and live in fantasy land, that is not my problem.

[3ba11]

No one cares about losses because EVERYONE loses more than they win. That's why you are using troll/hater logic. What everyone DOESNT do is win FMVP. That is rare air.

Lebron's 4FMVPs debunks your "biggest loser ever" nonsense. IF you want to be a little bitch and live in fantasy land, that is not my problem.


Lebron has the worst winning frequency of any top 10 candidate - he's simply the biggest loser based on his low win frequency, lottery record on the championship level, and bevy of historic losses




No one cares about losses because EVERYONE loses more than they win. That's why you are using troll/hater logic. What everyone DOESNT do is win FMVP. That is rare air.

Lebron's 4FMVPs debunks your "biggest loser ever" nonsense. IF you want to be a little bitch and live in fantasy land, that is not my problem.


MJ loses with Dave Corzine - "he needs to make teammates better"

Lebron loses with AD or Wade - "he needs better teammates"

Accordingly, only MJ is required to "make teammates better", while everyone else's losses are blamed on needing more help.

And history shows that Orlando Woolridge achieved a career high alongside rookie MJ in 85'... Sam Vincent, Oakley, Pippen, Grant and BJ also grew by leaps and bounds and achieved career highs - so there was never a point where MJ "didn't make teammates better", which is why the instant he got a modicum of help, he was unbeatable - he quickly proved all the narratives wrong and showed that he just needed a tiny bit of help..

Otoh, zero young players grew from low producer to meaningful producer on Lebron's watch.. He also imposes spot-up roles on veterans and often has bad fits, so Lebron is actually the guy that doesn't make teammates better and has zero young player development in 21 years.

Btw, MJ was nearly beating the Bad Boys with no help in 89' before Phil arrived and they might have won that year if Pippen didn't miss game 6 of the ECF (the "real" migraine) - people simply don't realize that Phil inherited a team on the cusp of a title... Yet Phil was excused for losing in 1990 due to the "migraine", while Collins was fired despite having a much worse version of Pippen... So all the narratives about Jordan were wrong.. Heck, he knew how to win as a freshman at North Carolina, while Ant was 5-13 in the SEC as a freshman and was a massive loser until this season.. At no point in Ant's career is he anywhere near MJ

[StrongLurk]

Lebron has the worst winning frequency of any top 10 candidate - he's simply the biggest loser based on his low win frequency, lottery record on the championship level, and bevy of historic losses






MJ loses with Dave Corzine - "he needs to make teammates better"

Lebron loses with AD or Wade - "he needs better teammates"

Accordingly, only MJ is required to "make teammates better", while everyone else's losses are blamed on needing more help.

And history shows that Orlando Woolridge achieved a career high alongside rookie MJ in 85'... Sam Vincent, Oakley, Pippen, Grant and BJ also grew by leaps and bounds and achieved career highs - so there was never a point where MJ "didn't make teammates better", which is why the instant he got a modicum of help, he was unbeatable - he quickly proved all the narratives wrong and showed that he just needed a tiny bit of help..

Otoh, zero young players grew from low producer to meaningful producer on Lebron's watch.. He also imposes spot-up roles on veterans and often has bad fits, so Lebron is actually the guy that doesn't make teammates better and has zero young player development in 21 years.

Btw, MJ was nearly beating the Bad Boys with no help in 89' before Phil arrived and they might have won that year if Pippen didn't miss game 6 of the ECF (the "real" migraine) - people simply don't realize that Phil inherited a team on the cusp of a title... Yet Phil was excused for losing in 1990 due to the "migraine", while Collins was fired despite having a much worse version of Pippen... So all the narratives about Jordan were wrong.. Heck, he knew how to win as a freshman at North Carolina, while Ant was 5-13 in the SEC as a freshman and was a massive loser until this season.. At no point in Ant's career is he anywhere near MJ

"Lebron has the worst winning frequency of any top 10 candidate".

This is made up non-sense. Can't even read the rest of your post because I know it will be irrelevant to the discussion. It's also hilarious you say that because you routinely try to make Lebron look like the worse player ever, yet your statement, though devoid of logic, implies that Lebron is at worst the 10th best player of all time :lol

I'm done responding in this thread. You've proven yourself illogical and full of hyperbole.

Here's a simple statement for you to understand. Based on the GOAT standard, Lebron is the second best winner of all time with four FMVPs. Enjoy talking to yourself the rest of the thread :lol

[3ba11]

"Lebron has the worst winning frequency of any top 10 candidate".





Worst winning frequencies among top 10 candidates:



1) Wilt (2/14 = 14%)

2) Lebron (4/21 = 19%)


Otoh, MJ has a 40% win frequency, which is twice Lebron's frequency and also the GOAT frequency of the modern era.

You clearly support a fraud... You don't support the real deal like Jordan fans do

[Axe]

6 losses on the championship level plus 11 before the Finals, and massively-losing records with every cast... 1/4 with AD, Love, or Wade (except the Allen miracle)... he's a complete joke and the biggest loser ever.
If that's true, then you wouldn't be here being paranoid and making silly ass threads about him on a daily basis.