See this is why I shit on Pippen

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNQlR81jqIU&t=01m02s


Cowherd:

"Once they get Ant a great running mate - his "pippen" - watch out"


So KAT, Gobert, McDaniels and the most length in the league isn't enough?.. Ant needs this mythical "pippen" to save him?... A 23-year old rookie that averaged 8 ppg?... wtf is Colin talking about?

The excuse for anyone not achieving Jordan's caliber of winning is that they didn't have their "pippen", which implies that Pippen is a shaq-like savior instead of the guy getting saved and carried statistically.. Pippen is just the guy that happens to be there when Ant wins - that's what a "pippen" is - and it's Ant's job to carry this pippen the same way Jordan did, which means carrying KAT's 18 ppg and weak mentality the same way MJ carried Pippen's..

Colin and the Lebron media are just fraudsters and creating false narratives to deflate Jordan's goat winning achievement.. The problem is that they actually believe this crap - they actually think Pippen is a top 30 all-timer instead of inferior to Larry Nance and never even reaching the peak impact of an Andre Igoudala.

[SATAN]

Go outside.

[ImKobe]

Yeah it's kind of stupid when he has a 4x DPOY in Gobert, an all-star caliber big man in his prime in KAT (who's averaging 23/10 for his career and is an elite shooter) and a bunch of great role players. I hate how they have to compare everyone to Jordan. There is no Jordan.

Once we get the next Jordan we'll all know it.

[90sgoat]

Ant definitely doesn't need more help, what an absurd thing to claim.

He has the best supporting cast of the last 20 years outside Lebron.

KAT and Gobert are both top 5 centers and he has a ton of good role players.

You give Luka this team and it's an instant championship.

[ShawkFactory]

Pippen profiles similarly to Jayson Tatum. A lot of the advanced numbers back that up.

Very similar in stature with Pippen a little more athletic and stronger playmaker and Tatum a better scoring handle. Both great defenders with Pippen probably having an edge there.

But as far as standing in the league and type of player, they’re pretty similar. I think if you put Tatum with an elite scoring guard right now his own scoring numbers would go down but his other strengths would really shine.

[tpols]

Pippen profiles similarly to Jayson Tatum. A lot of the advanced numbers back that up.

Very similar in stature with Pippen a little more athletic and stronger playmaker and Tatum a better scoring handle. Both great defenders with Pippen probably having an edge there.

But as far as standing in the league and type of player, they’re pretty similar. I think if you put Tatum with an elite scoring guard right now his own scoring numbers would go down but his other strengths would really shine.

Tatum is a way better offensive player than pippen.

Either way though... Ant has more than enough help. He's got a 25ppg capable scorer in KAT, DPOY in rudy, 6MOY in Naz, former all star in Conley, and a huge up coming talent in mcdaniels. Jordan would've slaughtered the league with that amount of help.

[ShawkFactory]

Tatum is a way better offensive player than pippen.

Either way though... Ant has more than enough help. He's got a 25ppg capable scorer in KAT, DPOY in rudy, 6MOY in Naz, former all star in Conley, and a huge up coming talent in mcdaniels. Jordan would've slaughtered the league with that amount of help.

Maybe as a scorer because he has the ability to get hot from 3. But on the days where the 3 isn’t on, which is like 2/3rds of the time he’s not really a better offensive player at all.

[NBAGOAT]

Tatum is a way better offensive player than pippen.

Either way though... Ant has more than enough help. He's got a 25ppg capable scorer in KAT, DPOY in rudy, 6MOY in Naz, former all star in Conley, and a huge up coming talent in mcdaniels. Jordan would've slaughtered the league with that amount of help.

kats only 25ppg capable on a mediocre team at best. He's not close to a lead option on a title team. Pippen did more as a 1st option considering kat only made the playoffs once as a 1st option with ant as his 2nd. he's very good but still at best borderline all-nba pippen was an all-nba lock every year. Rudy is DPOY but lowkey also past his prime compared to utah. Conleys 36, a very good role player now imo. Mcdaniels is elite defensively but had a bad year offensively.

The help is pretty great but it's no superteam and help is relative. Jokic is the best in the league and has pretty good help though less. He has a 25ppg playoff scorer all star caliber guy in murray, all-nba defender in gordon with very good offensive versatility borderline all star arguably, an elite shooter in mpj and one of the better role players in kcp. Not even getting into boston who has 2 all-nba guys with 2 all star caliber guy and jrue. there's dallas with the best duo in league 16 cavs 2.0 and good role players around them or okc with a mvp guy in shai and 2 all star lvl guys and elite 3nD in dort or even healthy clippers.

[3ba11]

Maybe as a scorer because he has the ability to get hot from 3. But on the days where the 3 isn’t on, which is like 2/3rds of the time he’s not really a better offensive player at all.


Tatum is an actual scorer, while Pippen never was - Pippen was a transition player/hustler/defender - never a "scorer" persay.. He averaged 20 for a few seasons in the triangle but this was flow and transition points, while 20 was his peak capability, give or take - teams could live with his transition and low peak capability, so he wasn't on the scouting report according to Shaq.... Meanwhile, Tatum is the scouting report.. It's night and day... Pippen was a "system" player and literally nothing outside the system.

Comparing Tatum to Pippen is like comparing Kyrie to Marcus Smart.. Pippen was never a "go-to" player, so MJ is the only guy that never had a "go-to" teammate that could "take over", which forced him to face max defensive attention (carry scoring load).

And Pippen was never a 50-win franchise player - he could never develop a 50-win team from scratch or lead a "real" 50-win team that could win 50 every year.. He was simply handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever and proceeded to crash the car within 18 months once the placebo effect wore off and opponents woke up - the Bulls were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat in his first full seasons back..

It's funny because in 1994, opponents no longer circled their calendars or planned what they would tell grandkids - no one gave a shit about playing the 94' Bulls without facing a "Babe Ruth" or "Ali" figure (Jordan)... But once opponents woke up in the playoffs and following season, the Bulls were a literal joke until MJ returned... Historically-embarrassed in the 94' Playoffs and then nothing in 95 before MJ returned.

[SouBeachTalents]

Tatum is an actual scorer, while Pippen never was
Yet he still outscored the opponents 2nd option in 19 of 24 playoff series during their title years, weak era.


Comparing Tatum to Pippen is like comparing Kyrie to Marcus Smart
Lol


Pippen was never a 50-win franchise player
He was, in 1994, he helped lead the Bulls to 55 wins after Jordan retired. He also finished 3rd in MVP voting, so he was very much a franchise player.


It's funny because in 1994, opponents no longer circled their calendars or planned what they would tell grandkids - no one gave a shit about playing the 94' Bulls
I love how you just blatantly make things up, then pass them off as if they were facts. You missed your calling as a politician.

[ShawkFactory]

Comparing Tatum to Pippen is like comparing Kyrie to Marcus Smart

This one got me too :lol

Fvck I think he's finally learning not the put the most ridiculous stuff at the beginning of his posts so people read more.

You gotta lead people on a bit before dropping the insanity hammer man. You're getting it :applause:

[3ba11]

Yet Pippen still outscored the opponents 2nd option in 19 of 24 playoff series during their title years, weak era.





Your stats show that Pippen only outscored guards that were underperforming against MJ (Starks, Dumars, Steve Smith, Terry Porter, Stockton, Hornacek, Hersey Hawkins, Price, and Harper).

He was otherwise destroyed by his own matchup and opposing SF's such as Larry Nance, Mark Aguirre, Johnny Newman, X-Man, Dominique, Larry Johnson, Detlef Schrempf, Juwan Howard, Tracy Murray and Glen Rice..

So carry on..

To summarize, Pippen was destroyed by opposing SF's and only outscored guards that were underperforming against MJ.

Furthermore, Pippen had worst-ever efficiency.. For example, he averaged 16.6 on 39%, while Rik Smits averaged 16.2 on 55% in the 98' ECF... Pippen only converted transition or flow points, while Rik was a GO-TO PLAYER - the Pacers ran their offense through him and he commanded double-teams that disrupted the Bulls' defense.. This is the type of comparison that you make when you compare Pippen (a transition player) to opposing 2nd options (go-to players).





He was, in 1994, he helped lead the Bulls to 55 wins after Jordan retired.





Pippen could never develop a 50-win team from scratch or lead a "real" 50-win team that could win 50 every year.. He was simply handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever and proceeded to crash the car within 18 months once the placebo effect wore off and opponents woke up - the Bulls were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat in his first full seasons back..






He also finished 3rd in MVP voting, so he was very much a franchise player.





MVP voting isn't a ranking of players - Blake Griffin, Paul George, Marc Gasol, Draymond, and many more have done just as well in MVP voting - it means literally nothing..

And Pippen was never in the MVP "discussion"... No one said that "gee, I wonder who will win MVP - Pippen or David freiking Robinson"... gtfo... no one viewed Pippen as anything more than a hard worker and transition player/dunker - he was never even CLOSE to being considered on the top level like Robinson, Hakeem, MJ etc.

Also, MVP voting is based on surprise factor (which is why SGA deserved it this year but that's another story).






I love how you just blatantly make things up





MJ is a Babe Ruth or Ali-like figure and he was above them in the 90's - he was like god, so it's a fact that opponents no longer circled their calendars or planned what to tell grandkids - opponents didn't give 2 bird shits about facing the Bulls.. It's similar to the Lakers game against Boston earlier this year when Lebron didn't play - Boston sleepwalked and lost to Austin Reaves - this is what the Bulls faced all year in 94' (sleeping opponents).

So you can say that I'm making it up, but I'm not - that's what actually happened and we saw that when the placebo effect wore off and opponents woke up, the Bulls were nothing in the 94' Playoffs or 95' regular season (.500 ballclub before MJ returned to restore 3-peat).

[SouBeachTalents]

Your stats show that Pippen only outscored guards that were underperforming against MJ (Starks, Dumars, Steve Smith, Terry Porter, Stockton, Hornacek, Hersey Hawkins, Price, and Harper).

He was otherwise destroyed by his own matchup and opposing SF's such as Larry Nance, Mark Aguirre, Johnny Newman, X-Man, Dominique, Larry Johnson, Detlef Schrempf, Juwan Howard, Tracy Murray and Glen Rice..

So carry on..

To summarize, Pippen was destroyed by opposing SF's and only outscored guards that were underperforming against MJ.

Furthermore, Pippen had worst-ever efficiency.. For example, he averaged 16.6 on 39%, while Rik Smits averaged 16.2 on 55% in the 98' ECF... Pippen only converted transition or flow points, while Rik was a GO-TO PLAYER - the Pacers ran their offense through him and he commanded double-teams that disrupted the Bulls' defense.. This is the type of comparison that you make when you compare Pippen (a transition player) to opposing 2nd options (go-to players).





Pippen could never develop a 50-win team from scratch or lead a "real" 50-win team that could win 50 every year.. He was simply handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever and proceeded to crash the car within 18 months once the placebo effect wore off and opponents woke up - the Bulls were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat in his first full seasons back..






MVP voting isn't a ranking of players - Blake Griffin, Paul George, Marc Gasol, Draymond, and many more have done just as well in MVP voting - it means literally nothing..

And Pippen was never in the MVP "discussion"... No one said that "gee, I wonder who will win MVP - Pippen or David freiking Robinson"... gtfo... no one viewed Pippen as anything more than a hard worker and transition player/dunker - he never on even CLOSE to being considered on the top level of players like Robinson, Hakeem, MJ etc.

Also, MVP voting is based on surprise factor (which is why SGA deserved it this year but that's another story).






MJ is a Babe Ruth or Ali-like figure and he was above them in the 90's - he was like god, so it's a fact that opponents no longer circled their calendars or planned what to tell grandkids - opponents didn't give 2 bird shits about facing the Bulls.. It's similar to the Lakers game against Boston earlier this year when Lebron didn't play - Boston sleepwalked and lost to Austin Reaves - this is what the Bulls faced all year in 94' (sleeping opponents).

So you can say that I'm making it up, but I'm not - that's what actually happened and we saw that when the placebo effect wore off and opponents woke up, the Bulls were nothing in the 94' Playoffs or 95' regular season (.500 ballclub before MJ returned to restore 3-peat).
1-9

[3ba11]

1-9


What's worse, going 1-9 as a rookie and sophomore, or going 1-8 in your prime against the Warriors?

What's worse, going 1-9 as a rookie and sophomore, or going 1-8 with AD against the Nuggets?

Ultimately, we can easily measure Jordan's greatness by looking at how Bird, Magic and MJ performed against the Bad Boys - Bird and Magic needed super-teams to barely hang with the Bad Boys, while MJ made the Bad Boys a piece of cake with just 1 all-star, and almost beat them with nothing in 89' and 90'.. Many people thought MJ could beat the Bad Boys by himself in 89', while Bird/Magic needed super-teams... Of course, the only reason MJ lost in 89' was because Pippen effectively missed Games 5 and 6 of the ECF - he played 1 minute in Game 6... This means that Phil got a pass for losing in 1990 due to the "migraine", while Collins was fired despite dealing with a much worse version of Pippen in 89'.. TLDR: timing is everything in life

[ImKobe]

He was, in 1994, he helped lead the Bulls to 55 wins after Jordan retired. He also finished 3rd in MVP voting, so he was very much a franchise player.


That was kind of a fluke season as the following year showed. They eeked out a lot of close wins and most of those go-ahead shots were not Pippen's, which is why Phil went to Kukoc against the Knicks when it mattered in the POs.

Pippen could be the best player on a Playoff team, but not a true contender type who could carry the team as a volume scorer. He had some great nights sure, but he wasn't a reliable all-around scorer. People here still try to put him there though.

[SouBeachTalents]

What's worse, going 1-9 as a rookie and sophomore, or going 1-8 in your prime against the Warriors?

What's worse, going 1-9 as a rookie and sophomore, or going 1-8 with AD against the Nuggets?

Ultimately, we can easily measure Jordan's greatness by looking at how Bird, Magic and MJ performed against the Bad Boys - Bird and Magic needed super-teams to barely hang with the Bad Boys, while MJ made the Bad Boys a piece of cake with just 1 all-star, and almost beat them with nothing in 89' and 90'.. Many people thought MJ could beat the Bad Boys by himself in 89', while Bird/Magic needed super-teams... Of course, the only reason MJ lost in 89' was because Pippen effectively missed Games 5 and 6 of the ECF - he played 1 minute in Game 6... This means that Phil got a pass for losing in 1990 due to the "migraine", while Collins was fired despite dealing with a much worse version of Pippen in 89'.. TLDR: timing is everything in life
This.

[ShawkFactory]

That was kind of a fluke season as the following year showed. They eeked out a lot of close wins and most of those go-ahead shots were not Pippen's, which is why Phil went to Kukoc against the Knicks when it mattered in the POs.

Pippen could be the best player on a Playoff team, but not a true contender type who could carry the team as a volume scorer. He had some great nights sure, but he wasn't a reliable all-around scorer. People here still try to put him there though.

To be fair, there’s probably less than 25 players ever that were the best player/volume scorer on a true title contender.

[3ba11]

This.


Lebron was lottery for his first couple seasons despite having the East all-star center on his team

Jokic, KD, Lebron, and Curry were all lottery for several years

So Jordan did better than all these guys

Ultimately, Jordan needed nothing to make the playoffs or win 50 games, while Lebron needed the East all-star center, a HOF coach and a player that was playing better than 1990 Pigpen