So we have to admit… Gobert > Mitchell now yes?

[FultzNationRISE]

It’s pure ISH logic. Whoever had the best team result in the last seven days IS clearly the better, higher ranked player.

Thats how the vast majority of ISH looks at things.

So we now have separation between these two. And you cant say Rudy’s just a role player. He’s a multiple DPOY on a max contract. He has every reason to be compared to Mitchell directly. And now he has more playoff success.

So next time you rank active players… youve all got Toody ahead of Mitchel right?

Remember, this is YOUR formula ISH. You use it whenever it’s convenient.

Is it convenient now?

[Overdrive]

Yes, I agree. Hondo > Lebron.

[SouBeachTalents]

Gobert would have obv lead the Cavs past the Celtics.

[Kblaze8855]

David Ruffin situation. Rudy is like the bass singer for the Temptations. Useful. But he’s never gonna sing My Girl.

A team with a bunch of Rudys will always be in search of a David Ruffin.



https://youtu.be/s5gmDVbctbQ?si=gQymmqf_wCkaHG3-


And yes I know you weren’t serious.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert would have obv lead the Cavs past the Celtics.

Pick and roll with garland? Yes

[L.Kizzle]

David Ruffin situation. Rudy is like the bass singer for the Temptations. Useful. But he’s never gonna sing My Girl.

A team with a bunch of Rudys will always be in search of a David Ruffin.



https://youtu.be/s5gmDVbctbQ?si=gQymmqf_wCkaHG3-


And yes I know you weren’t serious.

Mitchell definitely ain't Ruffin.
Also, Temptations has more hits (and Awards like Grammys) with Dennis Edward's on lead than with Ruffin.

He's like Ricky Bell from New Edition. Was only a lead with Ralph, Bobby and later Johnny gave him a song to sing.

[tpols]

Obviously bro. We all knew it was over when Tooty hit this Dirk turn around fade away on Yolk.


https://youtu.be/JdEELdNtmrk?si=AOUMb0_PPNjh7y73

:roll:

Look at his teammates reaction.

[Xiao Yao You]

Obviously bro. We all knew it was over when Tooty hit this Dirk turn around fade away on Yolk.


https://youtu.be/JdEELdNtmrk?si=AOUMb0_PPNjh7y73

:roll:

Look at his teammates reaction.

Everything was working :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

Mitchell definitely ain't Ruffin.
Also, Temptations has more hits (and Awards like Grammys) with Dennis Edward's on lead than with Ruffin.

He's like Ricky Bell from New Edition. Was only a lead with Ralph, Bobby and later Johnny gave him a song to sing.


if you want to see the temptation sing ball of confusion and psychedelic shack because they were commercially viable crossovers designed for mass appeal after they wanted to expand past the Motown sound that’s fine. My Girl, Just My Imagination, Ain’t too proud to beg and so on are the key classics. I’d say post David they only did two songs I ever need to hear again. Their version of Silent Night and papa was a rolling stone.

[Xiao Yao You]

Guess the capela and deandre conparisons arent looking is good now so we are bringing singers into it :lol

[beasted]

Gobert has always been a very limited player that is difficult to build around. I still say Gobert is harder to find a title-winning combination than Mitchell is.

A Center that cannot shoot, pass, or make free throws is a dinosaur in today's league. Most Centers now can do at least 1 of those 3.

It's not a new concept. Mutombo was also difficult to build around even if slightly better at FTs.

[Manny98]

He was like the 4th best player on his team this series and Towns did a much better job of guarding Jokic than Rudy

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert has always been a very limited player that is difficult to build around. I still say Gobert is harder to find a title-winning combination than Mitchell is.

A Center that cannot shoot, pass, or make free throws is a dinosaur in today's league. Most Centers now can do at least 1 of those 3.

It's not a new concept. Mutombo was also difficult to build around even if slightly better at FTs.

And yet the jazz were an awful team without gobert on the floor and a better team with mitchell on the bench

[L.Kizzle]

if you want to see the temptation sing ball of confusion and psychedelic shack because they were commercially viable crossovers designed for mass appeal after they wanted to expand past the Motown sound that’s fine. My Girl, Just My Imagination, Ain’t too proud to beg and so on are the key classics. I’d say post David they only did two songs I ever need to hear again. Their version of Silent Night and papa was a rolling stone.

I Can't Get Next To You
Papa
Cloud Nine

I will say My Girl is their all-time classic.
Papa might be their 2nd. That or Just My Imagination. Both with the Dennis Edward's version.
Actually glad you mentioned their version of Silent Night.
Why My Girl ages and ages, Silent Night gets played (at least fot the brothers and sisters) from Thanksgiving to Christmas about 20 times a day on the R&B stations and some pop.
When was the last time you heard My Girl?

[MrFonzworth]

It was always Gobert > Mitchell

[Gohan]

Pick and roll with garland? Yes

You might have a point if Hobert could catch the ball without fumbling it. Don’t let his d1ck blind your mind

[CeltsGarlic]

if you want to see the temptation sing ball of confusion and psychedelic shack because they were commercially viable crossovers designed for mass appeal after they wanted to expand past the Motown sound that’s fine. My Girl, Just My Imagination, Ain’t too proud to beg and so on are the key classics. I’d say post David they only did two songs I ever need to hear again. Their version of Silent Night and papa was a rolling stone.

Your message has heavy "american psycho huey lewis and the news scene" vibe going on I like it

[ArbitraryWater]

It was always Gobert > Mitchell


How can you be this dumb :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

How can you be this dumb :oldlol:

Hard facts. Better when mitchell was off the floor

[Kblaze8855]

I Can't Get Next To You
Papa
Cloud Nine

I will say My Girl is their all-time classic.
Papa might be their 2nd. That or Just My Imagination. Both with the Dennis Edward's version.
Actually glad you mentioned their version of Silent Night.
Why My Girl ages and ages, Silent Night gets played (at least fot the brothers and sisters) from Thanksgiving to Christmas about 20 times a day on the R&B stations and some pop.
When was the last time you heard My Girl?

my girl, just my imagination, and silent night are the only three temptation songs I consistently hear anywhere without playing them myself. Just my imagination may actually be played more in public.

[Axe]

You might have a point if Hobert could catch the ball without fumbling it. Don’t let his d1ck blind your mind
Lmao.

[beasted]

And yet the jazz were an awful team without gobert on the floor and a better team with mitchell on the bench

You're making an related point. All that says is Gobert is a floor raiser. Every title winning team's foundation is built on defense. Without looking up the stats you'd likely count the championship winners, and runner ups in one hand over the last 30 years who didn't have a top 15 defense.

But ultimately when defenses have multiple games to scout you and practice their theories at the same time, it becomes extremely difficult to score in the opponent as a series goes on.

You need players who can create efficient offense even without a mismatch, who can draw fouls and make those FTs, and also, guys who can get the ball to the open man when the defense collapses without turning it over. At least Mitchell can do 1 if those pretty consistently, and at least half the time 2 if those. When everything goes perfect he can do all 3. Gobert can't consistently do even 1. And even on his most perfect night probably maxes out at 2 of those.

[FultzNationRISE]

if you want to see the temptation sing ball of confusion and psychedelic shack because they were commercially viable crossovers designed for mass appeal after they wanted to expand past the Motown sound that's fine. My Girl, Just My Imagination, Ain’t too proud to beg and so on are the key classics. I’d say post David they only did two songs I ever need to hear again. Their version of Silent Night and papa was a rolling stone.

To be fair, Motown itself is just an earlier version of that same concept. All major labels are really. Doesnt mean the songs arent good.

You cant tell me this cut from the short lived Louis Price era aint a gem!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7JW4UMjKaE

[Xiao Yao You]

You're making an related point. All that says is Gobert is a floor raiser. Every title winning team's foundation is built on defense. Without looking up the stats you'd likely count the championship winners, and runner ups in one hand over the last 30 years who didn't have a top 15 defense.

But ultimately when defenses have multiple games to scout you and practice their theories at the same time, it becomes extremely difficult to score in the opponent as a series goes on.

You need players who can create efficient offense even without a mismatch, who can draw fouls and make those FTs, and also, guys who can get the ball to the open man when the defense collapses without turning it over. At least Mitchell can do 1 if those pretty consistently, and at least half the time 2 if those. When everything goes perfect he can do all 3. Gobert can't consistently do even 1. And even on his most perfect night probably maxes out at 2 of those.

Gobert went to the line more than mitchell. Hes one of the most efficient players ever. He can pass out of the roll. Motchell played iso and no d. Good luck with that!

[beasted]

Gobert went to the line more than mitchell. Hes one of the most efficient players ever. He can pass out of the roll. Motchell played iso and no d. Good luck with that!

Gobert's playoff career high is 4 assists. Gobert has a 72% assisted FG rate over his playoff career. Why do you feel the need to lie to get your point across?

Gobert does not have in his skill set to find the open man, nor create for himself. He can draw fouls, but cannot hit them consistently, only if he's lucky.

This takes nothing away from his impressive defense. But no need to fabricate offense that doesn't exist.

[SATAN]

Gobert does not have in his skill set to find the open man

He has gotten better at this tbh, even while looking uncoordinated.

[Xiao Yao You]

He has gotten better at this tbh, even while looking uncoordinated.

:wtf:

[beasted]

He has gotten better at this tbh, even while looking uncoordinated.

For his playoff career, Gobert has more turnovers (76) than assists (99). He has had more turnovers than assists in 6 out of his 8 years making the playoffs (including this year), and has never beaten the split by more than 2 total.

Yes, this season and last year are career highs with 2.0 assists per game in 2023 and 1.7 assists in 2024. But, it's not impressive at all. There's opinion and then there's fact. Fact remains Gobert is not a good passer at all.

[Overdrive]

Gobert went to the line more than mitchell. Hes one of the most efficient players ever. He can pass out of the roll. Motchell played iso and no d. Good luck with that!

I really don't get you. Every Gobert needs a Mitchell et vice versa. That's way teams are built. Just happens that Ant is a better version of the Mitchell type players.

The reality is that neither 5 Mitchells nor 5 Goberts can win.

Where the nuances come in is when you act like Gobert is something he is not. He is no ATG offensive player. He's an afterthought for the opponent's defense and that leads to his efficiency. Opponent tems don't care if he makes 10pts on 7 shots. The plan for guys like Ant, Mitchell, Kat. If they give up 30 to such a guy they want to make it as inefficient for him as possible.

[Xiao Yao You]

I really don't get you. Every Gobert needs a Mitchell et vice versa. That's way teams are built. Just happens that Ant is a better version of the Mitchell type players.

The reality is that neither 5 Mitchells nor 5 Goberts can win.

Where the nuances come in is when you act like Gobert is something he is not. He is no ATG offensive player. He's an afterthought for the opponent's defense and that leads to his efficiency. Opponent tems don't care if he makes 10pts on 7 shots. The plan for guys like Ant, Mitchell, Kat. If they give up 30 to such a guy they want to make it as inefficient for him as possible.

Yep players need other players around them in a tram sport. Mitchell could have been goberts stockton but he wasnt. Conley, hill and ingles were while mitchell played iso and saved humself on d. What is not to get? You build around your best player which they did very briefly. Mitchell didnt fit with Gobert and the jazz have never had foresight. Gobert isnt an after thought if the team is built around his screens, rim gravity and offensive rebounding which the jazz were especially if mitchell didnt have the ball since mitchell cant play the two man game

[Xiao Yao You]

https://clutchpoints.com/timberwolves-news-jj-redick-blasts-rudy-gobert-critics-after-struggles-vs-nikola-jokic

Redick gets it

[Xiao Yao You]

https://x.com/getsit/status/1787698725907046480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1787698725907046480%7Ctwgr% 5Eef2ad8145161cc2b7d4a8d6faf8fe3ef3a08286f%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.voltax.io%2Fcms%2Fe ditor%2F123%2F01hxa1j6mp5y

Do did he

[Overdrive]

Yep players need other players around them in a tram sport. Mitchell could have been goberts stockton but he wasnt. Conley, hill and ingles were while mitchell played iso and saved humself on d. What is not to get? You build around your best player which they did very briefly. Mitchell didnt fit with Gobert and the jazz have never had foresight. Gobert isnt an after thought if the team is built around his screens, rim gravity and offensive rebounding which the jazz were especially if mitchell didnt have the ball since mitchell cant play the two man game

There lies your fallacy. Gobert has no gravity around the rim. He isn't Shaq. He doesn't need hard doubles. When he scores he scores. The opponent just doesn't care. It's nice that he sets screens. So did Bogut or Luc Longley or whoever. Setting screens and rolling to the basketball while two guys crumble to hard hedge on the ball handler doesn't make Gobert the offensive threat you make him out to be.

Mitchell being Gobert's Stockton? First of all Gobert isn't Gobert's Malone. He can't create for himself. And why should anyone be anyone's Stockton? The Stock-Alone Jazz had a two time MVP and a Top 5 to 10 AT PG and couldn't win, because they exactly missed what Mitchell or Ant have to offer. Scoring even when the offensive schemes collapse*. Yes it's not fancy or efficient, but it's needed to win. There's a reason why players who can create scores even in a choked down offense are so highly regarded all time.

But you will never admit that because scoring 11 on 9 shots all rolls after screens is AT great offense for you simply because it's efficient. You are so close to understand what makes a team good. Closer than alot of people, but in the end you're still blinded by homerism.

*Another problem is your PG not shooting in a PnR based offense. The defense at some point will concentrate heavily on the roll man. The Jazz would've won in 98 if Stockton took a few more shots.

[WhiteKyrie]

No, not even close.

[Xiao Yao You]

There lies your fallacy. Gobert has no gravity around the rim. He isn't Shaq. He doesn't need hard doubles. When he scores he scores. The opponent just doesn't care. It's nice that he sets screens. So did Bogut or Luc Longley or whoever. Setting screens and rolling to the basketball while two guys crumble to hard hedge on the ball handler doesn't make Gobert the offensive threat you make him out to be.

Mitchell being Gobert's Stockton? First of all Gobert isn't Gobert's Malone. He can't create for himself. And why should anyone be anyone's Stockton? The Stock-Alone Jazz had a two time MVP and a Top 5 to 10 AT PG and couldn't win, because they exactly missed what Mitchell or Ant have to offer. Scoring even when the offensive schemes collapse*. Yes it's not fancy or efficient, but it's needed to win. There's a reason why players who can create scores even in a choked down offense are so highly regarded all time.

But you will never admit that because scoring 11 on 9 shots all rolls after screens is AT great offense for you simply because it's efficient. You are so close to understand what makes a team good. Closer than alot of people, but in the end you're still blinded by homerism.

*Another problem is your PG not shooting in a PnR based offense. The defense at some point will concentrate heavily on the roll man. The Jazz would've won in 98 if Stockton took a few more shots.

And yet hes the 3rd best player in jazz history while doing what stockton and malone nor anyone else ever did for them. He made bad teams good. Malone choked. Stockton was too unselfish. Gobert cant create..Everyone has weaknesses. Not sure why on ish gobert seems to be the only one that does

[tpols]

Imagine if rudy averages like 20 boards a game and wins FMVP.

:roll:

That would propel Xiao into the 7th or 8th dimension. He would be looking down at us trolls like ants.

[Overdrive]

And yet hes the 3rd best player in jazz history while doing what stockton and malone nor anyone else ever did for them. He made bad teams good. Malone choked. Stockton was too unselfish. Gobert cant create..Everyone has weaknesses. Not sure why on ish gobert seems to be the only one that does

Almost anyone gets killed for his weaknesses on ish. Even Jordan or Lebron. Don't know in which parallel universe you exist. Every player is allowed to his weaknesses, but you keep saying that Gobert provides great offense. That's just not the reality. He is capable of not being detrimental to the team on offense - he does what he does well. That's it. That's where it stops. Ish, as a hive minded entity, dislikes your posts because you religiously try to convince it's not that way. I have a feeling that you have a bigger problem liking a non complete player than anyone here actually has a problem with Gobert as a player.

[Xiao Yao You]

Youve got some work to do if you want to be a troll.cheer for A Bum, think puertonrican pros are better than a future hofer, b obsessed with how many points a non scorer gets, being completely removed from reality...

[Xiao Yao You]

Almost anyone gets killed for his weaknesses on ish. Even Jordan or Lebron. Don't know in which parallel universe you exist. Every player is allowed to his weaknesses, but you keep saying that Gobert provides great offense. That's just not the reality. He is capable of not being detrimental to the team on offense - he does what he does well. That's it. That's where it stops. Ish, as a hive minded entity, dislikes your posts because you religiously try to convince it's not that way. I have a feeling that you have a bigger problem liking a non complete player than anyone here actually has a problem with Gobert as a player.

Jazz had the top offense in the league. Led the league in screen assists, nba record for dunks, one of the top offensive rebounders and most efficient players ever. That isnt doing what you do well it is doing it at an elite level

[Proctor]

Mitchell has somewhat plateaued in a disappointing way but he at his worst is better than Gobert ever has been at his best. It's not much of a debate even though I understand the troll nature of the thread

[hold this L]

I think Rudy has the highest +/- on the floor in the playoffs so far. However, we'll see how he can react vs an elite backcourt that will 100% P&R him to death (especially Luka).

Not sure why it matters if either is better, both are usually the 3rd best player you want in a championship team. Difference is minor and they're completely different.

[Overdrive]

Youve got some work to do if you want to be a troll.cheer for A Bum, think puertonrican pros are better than a future hofer, b obsessed with how many points a non scorer gets, being completely removed from reality...

I'm not removed from reality. I understand that 12 points on 60% isn't ATG offense. I'm not obsessed about a non scorers scoring. Read my fn post again. I said that he does what he does well. You on the other hand are completely detached from reality. You think being efficient and setting screens is the most important part to make an offense great.

Do you think a team that has 5 people scoring around 10ppg playing 40m each can win a game?

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell has somewhat plateaued in a disappointing way but he at his worst is better than Gobert ever has been at his best. It's not much of a debate even though I understand the troll nature of the thread

Whiteside, monroe and garza make your opinion laughable :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

I think Rudy has the highest +/- on the floor in the playoffs so far. However, we'll see how he can react vs an elite backcourt that will 100% P&R him to death (especially Luka).

Not sure why it matters if either is better, both are usually the 3rd best player you want in a championship team. Difference is minor and they're completely different.

+/- only means something if Goberts is bad which it rarely is. Hes one of the best defending the pick and roll so dallas will need domething else to win

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm not removed from reality. I understand that 12 points on 60% isn't ATG offense. I'm not obsessed about a non scorers scoring. Read my fn post again. I said that he does what he does well. You on the other hand are completely detached from reality. You think being efficient and setting screens is the most important part to make an offense great.

Do you think a team that has 5 people scoring around 10ppg playing 40m each can win a game?

He doesnt just do what he does well though. Hes elite at it and has been for a long time. Never said it was the most important thing but if youre running pick and roll its pretty important. No 5 guys scoring 10 a game probably wont win neither will 5 scoring 20 if you dont ha e other guys doing the little things that lead to winning which is where gobert has excelled. Jazz were mostly awful without him and won with him no matter what stats you want to refer to

[SouBeachTalents]

Gobert is the best two way player in the game today.

[Xiao Yao You]

https://i0.wp.com/saltcityhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/gobertpandr.png?ssl=1

Not just very well against pick and roll bit best in league 3 years ago. Its possible he sucks at it now i guess

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert is the best two way player in the game today.

He impacts both ends which impacts winning

[Wardell Curry]

Donovan Mitchell has always been way overhyped. I mean way way way overhyped. For a while people talked about this guy like he was the league's premiere guard or that he even had that potential. Hogwash.

He's another guy that will get a max contract that will be a massive mistake. He'll be overpaid and the contract will be a hindrance till the day it expires or until it gets traded for smaller pieces.

Of course the mistake won't be as big as the NBA used to allow teams to make when they were allowed to hand out 7 year deals, because the max now is like 4 or 5, but whatever.

[L.Kizzle]

To be fair, Motown itself is just an earlier version of that same concept. All major labels are really. Doesnt mean the songs arent good.

You cant tell me this cut from the short lived Louis Price era aint a gem!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7JW4UMjKaE
There is a reason The Tempts went right back to Motown (with Dennis back at lead) after their short Atlantic run. That wasn't even the best cut on that record. Might be one their worst released singles as well.

[90sgoat]

Donovan Mitchell has always been way overhyped.

Mitchell is like a poor man's Dame, but he got hyped like D-Wade.

[Overdrive]

He doesnt just do what he does well though. Hes elite at it and has been for a long time. Never said it was the most important thing but if youre running pick and roll its pretty important. No 5 guys scoring 10 a game probably wont win neither will 5 scoring 20 if you dont ha e other guys doing the little things that lead to winning which is where gobert has excelled. Jazz were mostly awful without him and won with him no matter what stats you want to refer to

So you're finally admitting you need someone who can create offense for himself and/or others? Somwtimes miracles happen.

Of course he's elite in the limited amount of tries, but if he was elite, say 65%fg, on 20 tries teams would spam the PnR all game with him as scoring 65% around the basket has other advantages over shooting 42% on 3s than just merely scoring. Shorter rebounds, less fast breaks, etc. It's just he can't. There are diminishing returns for players like him. It's nothing that makes him a worse player than he is.

[Wardell Curry]

Mitchell is like a poor man's Dame, but he got hyped like D-Wade.

Sounds exactly correct.

[Xiao Yao You]

So you're finally admitting you need someone who can create offense for himself and/or others? Somwtimes miracles happen.

Of course he's elite in the limited amount of tries, but if he was elite, say 65%fg, on 20 tries teams would spam the PnR all game with him as scoring 65% around the basket has other advantages over shooting 42% on 3s than just merely scoring. Shorter rebounds, less fast breaks, etc. It's just he can't. There are diminishing returns for players like him. It's nothing that makes him a worse player than he is.

Admitting that it is a team game and one guy cant run a pick and roll?

[Overdrive]

Admitting that it is a team game and one guy cant run a pick and roll?

We're so close. Do you think running the PnR with Rudy and a non shooting pg is a winning strategy without any other significant scorers?

[Xiao Yao You]

We're so close. Do you think running the PnR with Rudy and a non shooting pg is a winning strategy without any other significant scorers?

Gobert has won with everyone hes played with. Exum, burke, mack rubio. He impacts winning. Hard for most to understand

[SouBeachTalents]

Gobert has won with everyone hes played with. Exum, burke, mack rubio. He impacts winning. Hard for most to understand
Yet it's his first trip past the 2nd round as at best the 3rd best player on the team. Interdasting.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yet it's his first trip past the 2nd round as at best the 3rd best player on the team. Interdasting.

Lost once as a higher seed and i imagine they were the underdog in that one. The one time they briefly built around his elite skills he and they were hurt and faced the warriors in the 2nd round. 2 upsets and counting this year added to the two from his jazz years Cant expect the impossible. 3rd best player?:roll:

[MrFonzworth]

as at best the 3rd best player on the team.

:facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

:facepalm

You forget about all those teams towns has carried over the years

[FultzNationRISE]

There is a reason The Tempts went right back to Motown (with Dennis back at lead) after their short Atlantic run. That wasn't even the best cut on that record. Might be one their worst released singles as well.

Well, I enjoy it. That and Mystic Woman are the two standout cuts for me from that album.

But things are often received poorly as a function of expectations. Just because its not the sound fans and critics thought they would get at the time, doesnt mean its bad. But they still end up disappointed. Its like, you might like milk and ice water both, but when you take a sip of one when you were expecting the other, it seems nasty. I think a lot of music gets unfairly criticized by people expecting groups to pigeonhole themselves.

I wasnt born when these songs were made so for me it’s easy to enjoy their different styles and eras in and of themselves. But at the time people probably all wanted “the old stuff.”

[Overdrive]

Gobert has won with everyone hes played with. Exum, burke, mack rubio. He impacts winning. Hard for most to understand

That's no answer. Stop avoiding a clear answer: Can a team win with Gobert at the 5, a 8/2/10 pg and 3 non scorers on the wing simply by spamming PnRs to Gobert?

[Xiao Yao You]

That's no answer. Stop avoiding a clear answer: Can a team win with Gobert at the 5, a 8/2/10 pg and 3 non scorers on the wing simply by spamming PnRs to Gobert?

Can the non scorers hit open 3s and defend? Hes one with a lot of crap around him and mostly guys that didnt fit.guys that shoot or defend. Someone that can run the pick and roll with shooters aroind them that dont rely on gobert to defend 5 guys by himself will certainly win games. We ve seen it already

[FultzNationRISE]

Lemme throw Ever Ready Love in there too as an album favorite

[Xiao Yao You]

Hayward, Hill, Ingles, Conley and ONeale were the jazzmen that best fit around gobert not mitchell or the bum. Unselfish guys that play both ends, run pick and roll, shoot and defend

[L.Kizzle]

Well, I enjoy it. That and Mystic Woman are the two standout cuts for me from that album.

But things are often received poorly as a function of expectations. Just because its not the sound fans and critics thought they would get at the time, doesnt mean its bad. But they still end up disappointed. Its like, you might like milk and ice water both, but when you take a sip of one when you were expecting the other, it seems nasty. I think a lot of music gets unfairly criticized by people expecting groups to pigeonhole themselves.

I wasnt born when these songs were made so for me it’s easy to enjoy their different styles and eras in and of themselves. But at the time people probably all wanted “the old stuff.”
They didn't want old stuff, just good stuff. And their Atlantic records just weren't good.
Mystic Woman, Ever Ready Love and a few others. But Bare Back, eh.
Their next single was Power with the returning Dennis Edwards, their first hit since ... Dennis Edward's was a member.

[FultzNationRISE]

They didn't want old stuff, just good stuff. And their Atlantic records just weren't good.
Mystic Woman, Ever Ready Love and a few others. But Bare Back, eh.
Their next single was Power with the returning Dennis Edwards, their first hit since ... Dennis Edward's was a member.

For sure, I fully agree it was some of their less memorable work. It was really just cuz you guys were goin back and forth about Ruffin and Edwards I was makin lulz by sayin Dont sleep on the Louis Price era! But it is actually ok to sleep on. Tho I do like the song bareback just for what it is, a pounding uptempo quasi-motown pop number, even if it’s not really reflective of their signature sound.

[L.Kizzle]

For sure, I fully agree it was some of their less memorable work. It was really just cuz you guys were goin back and forth about Ruffin and Edwards I was makin lulz by sayin Dont sleep on the Louis Price era! But it is actually ok to sleep on. Tho I do like the song bareback just for what it is, a pounding uptempo quasi-motown pop number, even if it’s not really reflective of their signature sound.
I'm probably younger than you tho ... I wasn't around then lol.
Just a Negro Historian.
David Ruffin, while great is vastly overrated. Him a Bernie Mac top my list as overrated brothers. But that's for another thread.

[SATAN]

Xiao having a meltdown in this thread. Didn't see that one coming. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao having a meltdown in this thread. Didn't see that one coming. :oldlol:

Facts = meltdown for a troll :coleman:

[Overdrive]

Can the non scorers hit open 3s and defend? Hes one with a lot of crap around him and mostly guys that didnt fit.guys that shoot or defend. Someone that can run the pick and roll with shooters aroind them that dont rely on gobert to defend 5 guys by himself will certainly win games. We ve seen it already

Average defenders. They can shoot 3s on average %. None of them scores more than 10ppg any given game. So Rudy will have high usage in PnR.

[Xiao Yao You]

Average defenders. They can shoot 3s on average %. None of them scores more than 10ppg any given game. So Rudy will have high usage in PnR.
40-45% is average 3 shooters? Hayward was an all star. Hill looked like one until he hurt his toe. Conley and Gobert were the top 2 man tandem in the league and an all star. Oneale playing both sides at 3 positions and hustling defending, rebounding and shooting. Ingles shoo ting defense p nr. You act like p nr is a bad thing. Dunk good look by creator or open 3 from the corner.

[Overdrive]

40-45% is average 3 shooters? Hayward was an all star. Hill looked like one until he hurt his toe. Conley and Gobert were the top 2 man tandem in the league and an all star. Oneale playing both sides at 3 positions and hustling defending, rebounding and shooting. Ingles shoo ting defense p nr. You act like p nr is a bad thing. Dunk good look by creator or open 3 from the corner.

It's a hypothetical. Stop deflecting. Can a team win who's offense relies on Rudy being a highusage PnR recipient?

[Xiao Yao You]

It's a hypothetical. Stop deflecting. Can a team win who's offense relies on Rudy being a highusage PnR recipient?

Jazz won with whomever was on the floor with gobert. How many ways can it be said?

[Overdrive]

Jazz won with whomever was on the floor with gobert. How many ways can it be said?

You just can't escape your stubborn ways can't you? I'm ok with not receiving an answer, pretty much shows that you know exactly that my claim was right.

[Xiao Yao You]

You just can't escape your stubborn ways can't you? I'm ok with not receiving an answer, pretty much shows that you know exactly that my claim was right.

What answer do you want? Jazz won as long as gobert was on the floor. Simple

[beasted]

What answer do you want? Jazz won as long as gobert was on the floor. Simple

Why hasn't his regular season dominance translated to any titles?

[Xiao Yao You]

You just can't escape your stubborn ways can't you? I'm ok with not receiving an answer, pretty much shows that you know exactly that my claim was right.

Team sport. Hes over acieved in the playoffs. Supposed to beat better teams all the time?


Why hasn't his regular season dominance translated to any titles?

[SATAN]

Hes over acieved in the playoffs.

How so?................

[SATAN]

Just as I thought. Ran away.

[Xiao Yao You]

How so?................

Lost once as the higher seed where they were probably the underdog. 3 times winning as the lower seed plus the upset over the suns this year. Look up over achieving troll

[Proctor]

In a troll's world it's a team sport if Gobert's team is losing and an individual sport if Gobert had a favorable stat. Thankfully the eye test (and a basic IQ test) are a little more simple. Gobert was one of the main reasons (if not the main) a stacked Jazz team continually fell short and were one of the bigger disappointment teams of the last decade!

[Xiao Yao You]

In a troll's world it's a team sport if Gobert's team is losing and an individual sport if Gobert had a favorable stat. Thankfully the eye test (and a basic IQ test) are a little more simple. Gobert was one of the main reasons (if not the main) a stacked Jazz team continually fell short and were one of the bigger disappointment teams of the last decade!

A stacked team that was awful without gobert on the floor. Maybe garza was the missing piece.

[Overdrive]

Of course he's elite in the limited amount of tries, but if he was elite, say 65%fg, on 20 tries teams would spam the PnR all game with him as scoring 65% around the basket has other advantages over shooting 42% on 3s than just merely scoring. Shorter rebounds, less fast breaks, etc. It's just he can't. There are diminishing returns for players like him. It's nothing that makes him a worse player than he is.


We're so close. Do you think running the PnR with Rudy and a non shooting pg is a winning strategy without any other significant scorers?


What answer do you want? Jazz won as long as gobert was on the floor. Simple


I want to know if you believe that his production would be still elite if he had to score 30+ a game with the limited offensive skillset he has.

I don't think it's that hard to get. Obviously the Jazz could win with him scoring his usual 12-13ppg. That's why I created that hypothetical.

[Xiao Yao You]

I want to know if you believe that his production would be still elite if he had to score 30+ a game with the limited offensive skillset he has.

I don't think it's that hard to get. Obviously the Jazz could win with him scoring his usual 12-13ppg. That's why I created that hypothetical.

Jazz won without anyone scoring 30 a game. He wouldnt score that many. Theyd take away the rill and the creator or corner 3 would get the look. Do you understand pick and roll?

[Overdrive]

Jazz won without anyone scoring 30 a game. He wouldnt score that many. Theyd take away the rill and the creator or corner 3 would get the look. Do you understand pick and roll?

You're still avoiding a straight answer, but it's ok. You gave it away unintentionally. Thank you.

[FireDavidKahn]

Just reinforces that Mitchell was a dick and in the wrong about everything.

[Xiao Yao You]

Just reinforces that Mitchell was a dick and in the wrong about everything.

Not sure if he was a dick but certainly the wrong fit with rudy