Cavs fire Bickerstaff

[Hey Yo]

Not really that surprised


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-fire-coach-j-b-bickerstaff-after-two-playoff-runs-over-five-years-in-cleveland-per-report/

[Manny98]

Why?

Weren't Allen and Mitchell injured

[Naero]

Probably the right move. I've never been impressed by his coaching, and the players don't really seem to click with him.

Granted, the Cavs went about as far as you could expect them to this season, and he seems like a decent rebuilding HC. But there are too many better options than Bickerstaff now that the team is probably ready to take the next step.

[Wally450]

So what's next for the Cavs? Hire one of the 7 coaches that get tossed around the league like whores because they believe they have a roster that can compete come playoff time? All they need is an established coach?

[FultzNationRISE]

Why?

Weren't Allen and Mitchell injured


Your boy Donovan sent him packin :confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

So what's next for the Cavs? Hire one of the 7 coaches that get tossed around the league like whores because they believe they have a roster that can compete come playoff time? All they need is an established coach?
As currently constructed, realistically, this rosters ceiling is the 2nd round. They're not on the same level as Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, or even a heathy Miami. Best case scenario, they take advantage of a depleted conference like Indy and sneak into the conference finals. So I honestly have no what idea what they expect the new coach to do, I think 50 wins and making the 2nd round is about as good as you're going to get out of this roster.

[Patrick Chewing]

Lebron strikes again

[Kblaze8855]

I think this is a case where it’s justified to ask “What more should I have done?”. They kinda have to admit he maxed out what he had to work with don’t they? Hes supposed to beat the Celtics? With 3 injured key players?

[FultzNationRISE]

I think this is a case where it’s justified to ask “What more should I have done?”. They kinda have to admit he maxed out what he had to work with don’t they? Hes supposed to beat the Celtics? With 3 injured key players?

Aint the question.

They have a star to retain, and they're gonna make whatever move they've got the impression will accommodate him. They dont go in either direction without takin Mitchell's temperature on the matter.

Very similar to the situation in Lakerland. It doesnt matter what the front office thinks about Ham. They do not axe him WITHOUT the blessing of Anthony Davis. If the coach is gone, it's because of AD. Simple and plain.

[beasted]

I think this is a case where it’s justified to ask “What more should I have done?”. They kinda have to admit he maxed out what he had to work with don’t they? Hes supposed to beat the Celtics? With 3 injured key players?

Besides the unusual expectations, I know that a lot of posters hate race victimization discussions, but it is worth pointing out that when many of the black coaches get fired, it magically comes out the personality clashes that they had.

We've heard it with Bickerstaff, Griffin, McMillan, Fizdale, Watson, Mike Brown, Jackson, etc, etc.

It's downplayed with coaches like Karl and Carlisle, but raised as a red flag with a certain demographic of coaches, often steamrolling any 2nd chance opportunity they may have gotten. One coach is an authoritarian and he's "hard-nosed" another coach is labelled "problematic".

[FultzNationRISE]

Besides the unusual expectations, I know that a lot of posters hate race victimization discussions, but it is worth pointing out that when many of the black coaches get fired, it magically comes out the personality clashes that they had.

We've heard it with Bickerstaff, Griffin, McMillan, Fizdale, Watson, Mike Brown, Jackson, etc, etc.

It's downplayed with coaches like Karl and Carlisle, but raised as a red flag with a certain demographic of coaches, often steamrolling any 2nd chance opportunity they may have gotten. One coach is an authoritarian and he's "hard-nosed" another coach is labelled "problematic".

Jesus F. Cringe.

It was reported on ESPN that Vogel was out in Phoenix because KD refused to acknowledge him. Is that "race based?" Mitchell had the say here, and he sent JB packin. Giannis was slamming Griffin in his own press conferences, how are you finding a way to blame that on the media? The Lakers are absolutely bent over to their stars' whims, you think Ham gets fired without AD and the rest of Lebron's teammate saying "MOVE ON"?

And who the hell called any of these coaches "problematic?" Literally everyone on all the networks is saying the players are calling the shots and getting guys fired.

You literally just invented a detailed world of delusional victimhood out of thin air. Spun it completely out of yarn.

You might wanna join bdonovan at the pharmacy and pick up some meds.

[beasted]

Jesus F. Cringe.

It was reported on ESPN that Vogel was out in Phoenix because KD refused to acknowledge him. Is that "race based?" Mitchell had the say here, and he sent JB packin. Giannis was slamming Griffin in his own press conferences, how are you finding a way to blame that on the media? The Lakers are absolutely bent over to their stars' whims, you think Ham gets fired without AD and the rest of Lebron's teammate saying "MOVE ON"?

And who the hell called any of these coaches "problematic?" Literally everyone on all the networks is saying the players are calling the shots and getting guys fired.

You literally just invented a detailed world of delusional victimhood out of thin air. Spun it completely out of yarn.

You might wanna join bdonovan at the pharmacy and pick up some meds.

I'm not surprised you posted a couple irrelevant comparison. Vogel was not painted as the bad communicator, it was framed that KD was the diva superstar.

I also never mentioned Ham being fired because of player conflicts. Just because I am calling out a persistent generalization doesn't mean it has to apply to EVERY single black coach firing. Jeez!

[Charlie Sheen]

Besides the unusual expectations, I know that a lot of posters hate race victimization discussions, but it is worth pointing out that when many of the black coaches get fired, it magically comes out the personality clashes that they had.

We've heard it with Bickerstaff, Griffin, McMillan, Fizdale, Watson, Mike Brown, Jackson, etc, etc.

It's downplayed with coaches like Karl and Carlisle, but raised as a red flag with a certain demographic of coaches, often steamrolling any 2nd chance opportunity they may have gotten. One coach is an authoritarian and he's "hard-nosed" another coach is labelled "problematic".

Playing devil's advocate...

Durant skirted any coach killer rep while the narrative on Nash and Vogel was they were incompetent with no bass in their voice... i mean nice guys.

Edit: you already replied to fultz. I should read before posting :lol

[beasted]

Playing devil's advocate...

Durant skirted any coach killer rep while the narrative on Nash and Vogel was they were incompetent with no bass in their voice... i mean nice guys.
I can agree with this generalization. They said the same thing with Blatt and others. Diva/demanding players get coaches fired unnecessarily all the time.

[FultzNationRISE]

Besides the unusual expectations, I know that a lot of posters hate race victimization discussions, but it is worth pointing out that when many of the black coaches get fired, it magically comes out the personality clashes that they had.

We've heard it with Bickerstaff, Griffin, McMillan, Fizdale, Watson, Mike Brown, Jackson, etc, etc.

It's downplayed with coaches like Karl and Carlisle, but raised as a red flag with a certain demographic of coaches, often steamrolling any 2nd chance opportunity they may have gotten. One coach is an authoritarian and he's "hard-nosed" another coach is labelled "problematic".

The Cavs were Bickerstaff's second team as a coach.

Fizdale was a head coach twice.

Nate McMillan has been the head coach of four different teams.

Mike Brown's been a head coach it feels like in ten different places plus the lead assistant in Golden State.

You didnt list him but Doc Rivers has coached just about every team in the league.

Youre literally making things up. Youre inventing narratives, lying about examples, perpetually false equivalencies, implying fictitious circumstances then claiming "I never technically said that" when it's proven theyre bullshit.

It's shameless bro. Youre not being remotely objective. You're seeing the race angle FIRST, then looking for any evidence you can to justify it. And when you dont have enough, youre flat out lying and making things up.

Need a mirror check bro. Go have a long look.

[beasted]

The Cavs were Bickerstaff's second team as a coach.

Fizdale was a head coach twice.

Nate McMillan has been the head coach of four different teams.

Mike Brown's been a head coach it feels like in ten different places plus the lead assistant in Golden State.

You didnt list him but Doc Rivers has coached just about every team in the league.

Youre literally making things up. Youre inventing narratives, lying about examples, perpetually false equivalencies, implying fictitious circumstances then claiming "I never technically said that" when it's proven theyre bullshit.

It's shameless bro. Youre not being remotely objective. You're seeing the race angle FIRST, then looking for any evidence you can to justify it. And when you dont have enough, youre flat out lying and making things up.

Need a mirror check bro. Go have a long look.

Maybe you're right that I'm biased. But you do appear to agree that the coaches I've mentioned have been reported as having problems in the locker room and specifically conflicts with players (not coach vs management), and that the coach themselves have been portrayed as a catalyst for the conflicts.

Can you please help me with the mirror check and provide a similar sampling of white coaches that shared this media narrative and the coach (not the player) was portrayed in the wrong using the same 10 year sampling that I did?

I'm not being facetious either. I'm genuinely saying that maybe I'm missing that this happens to "coaches" and not just black coaches.

[FultzNationRISE]

Maybe you're right that I'm biased. But you do appear to agree that the coaches I've mentioned have been reported as having problems in the locker room and specifically conflicts with players (not coach vs management), and that the coach themselves have been portrayed as a catalyst for the conflicts.

Can you please help me with the mirror check and provide a similar sampling of white coaches that shared this media narrative and the coach (not the player) was portrayed in the wrong using the same 10 year sampling that I did?

I'm not being facetious either. I'm genuinely saying that maybe I'm missing that this happens to "coaches" and not just black coaches.

First show me where Bickerstaff, Nate McMillan, or Mike Brown have ever been portrayed as problematic catalysts of conflict.

Has Mark Jackson been portrayed as a snake? Yes, and he has a long well documented history of that predating his coaching years. So that is accurate. Was Adrian Griffin portrayed as in over his head? Yes, because the Bucks players themselves were saying it. Your attempts to spin that as a media hit job are ABSURD. The media has reported what happened within each team. What they reported is accurate.

You're conflating facts on purpose in order to spin a narrative. Nobody ever said Bick, Mc, or Brown 'were the problem.' The reports were that star players had an issue with them and thats TRUE. It is factual. Youre blaming the media for reporting something thats true? They also reported that Dwight Howard wanted Stan Van out. Lebron didnt like Blatt. Durant got Vogel canned. Magic had Paul Westhead fired. Chris Paul had Vinny Del Negro replaced BECAUSE he wanted a black coach. It happens all the time, and the media reports it all the time. In the case of Jackson and Griffin, the reports were that they were the problem because THEY WERE THE PROBLEM.

This is classic projection. You're clearly hyper sensitive about how the performance of black coaches is perceived and youre pre-emptively making excuses for accusations that dont even exist.

[Jasper]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40203249/sources-cavaliers-fire-coach-jb-bickerstaff-playoff-exit

so this is my thought process :

Bron has influence w/Cav's owner. ..

He will tell him sell the house what ever - u get Bronny and u get me.


Hire JJ redick as coach , we like each other , and think the same.
/

[beasted]

First show me where Bickerstaff, Nate McMillan, or Mike Brown have ever been portrayed as problematic catalysts of conflict.


I think we both know that your pea brain got tuckered out coming up with even 2 examples despite many more white coaches in the NBA, and in proportion more fired white coaches. I can accept, yes, maybe I'm biased, but I'm not going to be dismissed as making stuff up by a clown like you who can't even give me a handful of examples.

Bickerstaff
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3514062/two-seconds-after-the-cavs-season-ended-a-hit-piece-on-jb-bickerstaff-dropped-that-details-the-apparent-disaster-in-the-cleveland-locker-room

Multiple league sources have said, for months, that Mitchell did not have great confidence in Bickerstaff, and he was not alone. Several players questioned Bickerstaff’s strategies, game management, practice habits and accountability measures, privately and publicly, throughout the season

McMillan
https://deadspin.com/nba-atlanta-hawks-trae-young-nate-mcmillan-woj-snyder-1850145539/

We knew his coaching position was terminal two months ago when an argument between McMillan and Young spilled out into the public sphere. And while Young’s poor relationship with McMcMillan has him branded as a coach killer, it’s too simplistic in this instance. Two years into the job, McMillan wasn’t getting the job done and his Major Payne-adjacent leadership style isn’t connecting with the player his franchise revolved around.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1099298-nba-rumors-some-unhappy-blazers-reportedly-want-nate-mcmillan-fired

According to HOOPSWORLD's Alex Kennedy, some players on the team are unhappy with the way things are going this season, which may have led to McMillan losing the faith of his players.
It’s always telling when a head coach has seemingly run out of answers, and that appears to be the case in Portland. One team source said that McMillan “has no idea what to do” as the Blazers slip further down the standings.Chris Haynes of CSNNW.com reported that McMillan has had an ongoing rift with guard Raymond Felton throughout the season.

Brown
https://www.thesportster.com/nba-coaches-fired-why-reasons/

Brown was fired after his first season back in 2014. While the team wasn't terrible, he had zero control of the locker room and had beef with many star players behind closed doors.

[90sgoat]

Didn't Cavs have Markannen?

How good would they be with Lauri instead of Mitchell? A lot better imo.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think we both know that your pea brain got tuckered out coming up with even 2 examples despite many more white coaches in the NBA, and in proportion more fired white coaches. I can accept, yes, maybe I'm biased, but I'm not going to be dismissed as making stuff up by a clown like you who can't even give me a handful of examples.

Bickerstaff
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3514062/two-seconds-after-the-cavs-season-ended-a-hit-piece-on-jb-bickerstaff-dropped-that-details-the-apparent-disaster-in-the-cleveland-locker-room


McMillan
https://deadspin.com/nba-atlanta-hawks-trae-young-nate-mcmillan-woj-snyder-1850145539/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1099298-nba-rumors-some-unhappy-blazers-reportedly-want-nate-mcmillan-fired


Brown
https://www.thesportster.com/nba-coaches-fired-why-reasons/

Bruh. Carmelo got DAntoni fired. Harden got McHale fired. There are COUNTLESS examples. Anyone who watches the NBA knows this. You wont concede the point until Ive listed EVERY example? Lmao. A/k/a your deflection tactic to avoid admitting youre WRONG.

And those articles did not say Brown or Bickerstaff were problematic, nor catalysts of conflict. They reported a factual riff. The McMillan one was closest and that just says he was an old school drill sergeant type. In other words… the exact archetype that caused the widely reported riff between hmmm DERON WILLIAMS AND JERRY SLOAN.

Youre a fool and youre embarrassing yourself. Keep going.

[beasted]

Bruh. Carmelo got DAntoni fired. Harden got McHale fired. There are COUNTLESS examples. Anyone who watches the NBA knows this. You wont concede the point until Ive listed EVERY example? Lmao. A/k/a your deflection tactic to avoid admitting youre WRONG.

And those articles did not say Brown or Bickerstaff were problematic, nor catalysts of conflict. They reported a factual riff. The McMillan one was closest and that just says he was an old school drill sergeant type. In other words… the exact archetype that caused the widely reported riff between hmmm DERON WILLIAMS AND JERRY SLOAN.

Youre a fool and youre embarrassing yourself. Keep going.

You still don't get that these are examples of black players getting white coach fired. Not white coach fired because he can't get along with player X, is argumentative, controlling, incompetent, etc, which is the media narrative that some of these black coaches are just a problem.

For the betterment of this world, never procreate and infiltrate this world with more stupidity.

[FultzNationRISE]

You still don't get that these are examples of black players getting white coach fired. Not white coach fired because he can't get along with player X, is argumentative, controlling, incompetent, etc, which is the media narrative that some of these black coaches are just a problem.

For the betterment of this world, never procreate and infiltrate this world with more stupidity.

Please cut the ****ing shit, ok? Okay???

When I go to the gym tonight, I aint lookin over my back for the MEDIA.

Im lookin for hard ass black coaches!

[Charlie Sheen]

First show me where Bickerstaff, Nate McMillan, or Mike Brown have ever been portrayed as problematic catalysts of conflict.

Has Mark Jackson been portrayed as a snake? Yes, and he has a long well documented history of that predating his coaching years. So that is accurate. Was Adrian Griffin portrayed as in over his head? Yes, because the Bucks players themselves were saying it. Your attempts to spin that as a media hit job are ABSURD. The media has reported what happened within each team. What they reported is accurate.

You're conflating facts on purpose in order to spin a narrative. Nobody ever said Bick, Mc, or Brown 'were the problem.' The reports were that star players had an issue with them and thats TRUE. It is factual. Youre blaming the media for reporting something thats true? They also reported that Dwight Howard wanted Stan Van out. Lebron didnt like Blatt. Durant got Vogel canned. Magic had Paul Westhead fired. Chris Paul had Vinny Del Negro replaced BECAUSE he wanted a black coach. It happens all the time, and the media reports it all the time. In the case of Jackson and Griffin, the reports were that they were the problem because THEY WERE THE PROBLEM.

This is classic projection. You're clearly hyper sensitive about how the performance of black coaches is perceived and youre pre-emptively making excuses for accusations that dont even exist.

From what I remember beasted is more right about Griffin. They reported the hell out of the incident with Stotts much more than anything else.

[FultzNationRISE]

From what I remember beasted is more right about Griffin. They reported the hell out of the incident with Stotts much more than anything else.

What does that prove? They reported on a factual incident. When he was fired they reported the factual evidence that the players had had enough of him.

How is that ‘racism’?

When Tom Brady left New England there were reports he fell out with Belichik over Belichik’s perceived lack of appreciation for Brady. Reports of rifts happen allllll the time in sports.

There is Z.E.R.O. evidence of anything racial. Networks report anything controversial they can, regardless. If anything networks like ESPN/Disney/ABC err on the side of SHIELDING minorities from negative stories.

Beasted is literally complaining that the same thing that happens to everyone in the real world also happens to blacks, and hes somehow in his feelings about that.

[Charlie Sheen]

What does that prove? They reported on a factual incident. When he was fired they reported the factual evidence that the players had had enough of him.

How is that ‘racism’?

When Tom Brady left New England there were reports he fell out with Belichik over Belichik’s perceived lack of appreciation for Brady. Reports of rifts happen allllll the time in sports.

There is Z.E.R.O. evidence of anything racial. Networks report anything controversial they can, regardless. If anything networks like ESPN/Disney/ABC err on the side of SHIELDING minorities from negative stories.

Beasted is literally complaining that the same thing that happens to everyone in the real world also happens to blacks, and hes somehow in his feelings about that.


I disagreed with the way you framed the narrative on griffin losing his job.

I did not make the racism claim. There are not many reasons a coach gets fired. I can think of a big 4... moron, weakling, stale or asshole. I have not researched it. It does feel like black coaches get stamped as an asshole more than the other 3 choices but none of the other reasons would be any kinder to say about a person.

[beasted]

From what I remember beasted is more right about Griffin. They reported the hell out of the incident with Stotts much more than anything else.

This is what institutionalized media looks like.

There are plenty of problematic, disliked bad attitude, and off court messy situations among coaches of all races... but if they are likely to report on one of them it's most likely to be the black coach.

The subtle reporting that portrays the "diva" star black players who abuse what power they have to get their white coach fired, and the black coach who when given great responsibility and prominence fumbles it in the aforementioned ways are consistent keystones of institutionalized media.

It's just like the fact that people of all races will commit crimes, but the news just so happens to report on certain demographics.

For example, my parents live in an extremely quiet and highly-sought after suburb of Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood. To make an analogy that others might understand, this is what Thousand Oaks is to Los Angeles. Essentially a slice of surburbia with zero crime in a major city and sky high property values to match. A few years back a white neighbor of theirs had some messy love triangle which ended with some white desperate housewife getting drunk, having a standoff with police and getting shot in broad daylight on a sidewalk because she wouldn't lay down the pistol she was brandishing.

Something so shocking in a top tier neighborhood with such juicy background in the #defendthepolice times is likely to make the news, right? Nope. Not at all. :oldlol:

Meanwhile, I just saw a news report about the arrest of black person dumpster diving in a shopping center adjacent to this same city they live in.

[BurningHammer]

Unless there are things behind the scene we don't know, this is a stupid firing.

[Hey Yo]

Cavs president said J.B didn't do anything wrong, just thought they reached their limit with him.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40210861/cavs-altman-bickerstaff-firing-need-new-voice-next-step

[FultzNationRISE]

I disagreed with the way you framed the narrative on griffin losing his job.

I did not make the racism claim. There are not many reasons a coach gets fired. I can think of a big 4... moron, weakling, stale or asshole. I have not researched it. It does feel like black coaches get stamped as an asshole more than the other 3 choices but none of the other reasons would be any kinder to say about a person.

Do you think Stephen A and Barkley and Shannon Sharpe are more likely to be branded assholes by the public than, say, Tim Legler or Ernie Johnson?

If so, do you think thats because the media is brainwashing people?

[L.Kizzle]

Not surprised. Only 3 coaches in the league are safe; Pop, Kerr and Erik. We've seen mofo win championships or have the best recim the conference got the boot.