Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

[AirBonner]

Thoughts?

[beasted]

He's averaged 23 PPG in the regular season and playoffs and is about to make $65M. What do you think?

No fan is thinking "I need to go pick up the new variant of Jaylen Brown's jersey! " or "Jaylen is coming to town, let me blow my allowance money on tix!"

[warriorfan]

He's averaged 23 PPG in the regular season and playoffs and is about to make $65M. What do you think?

No fan is thinking "I need to go pick up the new variant of Jaylen Brown's jersey! " or "Jaylen is coming to town, let me blow my allowance money on tix!"

I would cop a jaylen jersey over a tatum

[beasted]

I would cop a jaylen jersey over a tatum

Without looking it up I'd assume he's not top 15 in jersey sales.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's averaged 23 PPG in the regular season and playoffs and is about to make $65M. What do you think?

No fan is thinking "I need to go pick up the new variant of Jaylen Brown's jersey! " or "Jaylen is coming to town, let me blow my allowance money on tix!"
Last year JB was in the top 15 of jersey sales. Not that that is the reason why he's worth paying all that money, just pointing out that when you say no fan buys his jersey? You're wrong.

The justification for his pay is the same as most any player with that kind of contract: it's the going rate for a star. With the CBA rules and all of the money the league makes in the backs of players his contract will be repeatedly exceeded to the point where it's just a trivia question. His was the first 300 million dollar deal. It will not be the only one. In 4 years evert playoffs team will have one guy with a bigger contract than his and many will have two. People keep freaking out at the numbers and ignore that it's just the going rate.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Without looking it up I'd assume he's not top 15 in jersey sales.
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/04/12/jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-nba-jersey-sales/

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/04/12/jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-nba-jersey-sales/
Tbf that was last year, he didn't make it this time

https://www.nba.com/news/top-selling-jerseys-2023-24-season-2

Nice to see Jokic managed to sneak into the top 15 and top LaMelo Ball.

[Hey Yo]

Brown, making that much cash, should stand out as the go to first option guy. Him and Tatum have been deep in the postseason since 2018 but here 6yrs later, we still don't know which guy it is?

Just seems like a weird scenario so far.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Tbf that was last year, he didn't make it this time

https://www.nba.com/news/top-selling-jerseys-2023-24-season-2

Nice to see Jokic managed to sneak into the top 15 and top LaMelo Ball.
Ok but the point still stands. If a team wants to win then they have to Supermax a guy like JB. Or the Celtics had been stupid and tried to haggle they likely lose him. Imagine if he had joined Philly in a sign and trade. Sixers would be on their way to the finals right now. Tatum would have to regularly have 40 point games to win in the playoffs, especially while Porzingis is out and wouldn't have home court. You can't win in the playoffs if you are letting a star like JB walk because you have some dumb list of 10 players worth the max and won't give it to anyone else.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Brown, making that much cash, should stand out as the go to first option guy. Him and Tatum have been deep in the postseason since 2018 but here 6yrs later, we still don't know which guy it is?

Just seems like a weird scenario so far.
Any team with multiple Allstars is going to have multiple guys making the max. They can't all be the #1 option all the time. Besides celtics feature Brown plenty. So long as it leads to winning its not important that he doesn't lead the team in scoring. He could lead plenty of teams in scoring. That's not the goal.

[FultzNationRISE]

He’s been good this post season, one thing I always respect about Tatum and Brown both is they are excellent defenders, even tho I often criticize them as overrated for their offense.

That said, the Beantown duo rarely have a problem looking good in the earlier rounds against the non contenders. Their path has been especially easy this year with no serious contenders in the whole conference.

Lets see what Brown does in the finals then we’ll talk.

[bdonovan]

He's averaged 23 PPG in the regular season and playoffs and is about to make $65M. What do you think?

No fan is thinking "I need to go pick up the new variant of Jaylen Brown's jersey! " or "Jaylen is coming to town, let me blow my allowance money on tix!"

This is the sort of casual fan, points-humping mentality that fails to understand how games are won or lost. Of course the casual fan isn't going to buy his jersey when all he cares about is ESPN highlight reels, exciting ISO, and indifferent to defense or the team aspect of the game.

[Manny98]

He ain't worth shit, anyone could drop 40 against that pathetic defense

[NBAGOAT]

No supermax is for at least perennial all-nba lvl guys. Some think it should only be for mvp guys. He wasn’t going make more anywhere else. You haggle like the Jazz did for gobert when he was best guy on a title favorite team, clips did for kawhi, Mavs did for Kyrie and kings did for sabonis. The heat for jimmy and clippers for George are haggling rn. Just a few mil less a year even though he still be overload imo could mean an extra bench guy.

[ImKobe]

The problem is that Tatum is currently on a cheap contract himself, and once he declines his player option and they give him the new max in 2025 they're going to have problems as far as team building goes. Boston was able to have the deepest/most talented team in their Conference for years thanks to their two best players being young and on cheap contracts. Once both of them are making 55-65+ million a year they're not going to be able to maintain that advantage.

Will have to see what they offer Jrue or if they S&T him for younger players after this season and what they can do with Porzingis. I don't think this current version of the Celtics is staying together for long. They need to get younger around the two Jays or trade Brown after next season if this doesn't work out. They're already lacking in depth and Jrue is 34 next season and KP might as well be in his mid-30s too with how often he's hurt.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No supermax is for at least perennial all-nba lvl guys. Some think it should only be for mvp guys. He wasn’t going make more anywhere else. You haggle like the Jazz did for gobert when he was best guy on a title favorite team, clips did for kawhi, Mavs did for Kyrie and kings did for sabonis. The heat for jimmy and clippers for George are haggling rn. Just a few mil less a year even though he still be overload imo could mean an extra bench guy. Did you not notice the metric ton of ****ing up Irving did to make himself a nonmax player? You don't see how George and Leonard's injury history changes his value? Brown is starting his prime. Most of the guys you mention are in their thirties and have major problems. The Celtics with Brown have made the Conference finals almost every year and gotten to the finals once in recent history. He was averaging almost 27 points as the second star. You don't jeopardize that because you think that maybe you could get some bench guy for the cap space that actually would not be created if you got him to take 50 mil per instead of 60. Porzingis and Holiday have both gotten big deals since he signed and Tatum is going to get a contract even bigger than his. Why should Brown settle? He is one of the cornerstones to a perennial championship contender.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The problem is that Tatum is currently on a cheap contract himself, and once he declines his player option and they give him the new max in 2025 they're going to have problems as far as team building goes. Boston was able to have the deepest/most talented team in their Conference for years thanks to their two best players being young and on cheap contracts. Once both of them are making 55-65+ million a year they're not going to be able to maintain that advantage.

Will have to see what they offer Jrue or if they S&T him for younger players after this season and what they can do with Porzingis. I don't think this current version of the Celtics is staying together for long. They need to get younger around the two Jays or trade Brown after next season if this doesn't work out. They're already lacking in depth and Jrue is 34 next season and KP might as well be in his mid-30s too with how often he's hurt.
They've already extended Holiday and Porzingis. Any team that has collected a great core is going to have to pay out a lot of money but so long as the Celtics ownership is willing to pay the bill (and they are) its not a problem.

[iamgine]

Absolutely not. Jaylen Brown to me is around top 50ish player level. About the same with Brandon Ingram.

But when you have really underpaid studs like Derrick White and Al Horford in your team, having an overpaid player like Brown hurts a lot less.

[Wally450]

Absolutely not. Jaylen Brown to me is around top 50ish player level. About the same with Brandon Ingram.

But when you have really underpaid studs like Derrick White and Al Horford in your team, having an overpaid player like Brown hurts a lot less.

Top 50ish?? I don't think there's 25 guys better than Jaylen personally.

[iamgine]

Top 50ish?? I don't think there's 25 guys better than Jaylen personally.

Opinions can differ

[ImKobe]

They've already extended Holiday and Porzingis. Any team that has collected a great core is going to have to pay out a lot of money but so long as the Celtics ownership is willing to pay the bill (and they are) its not a problem.

Yeah so they have little to improve around the edges or to add any significant depth unless they luck out with some of the younger players or unless they trade those older guys. They're pretty much where the Clippers were in 2020 but their 2 stars are more reliable health-wise. Keeping this current team together a few years down the line would mean that they'd have to go into the 2nd apron, and if they do that they're going to be further limited in what they can do to improve the roster.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah so they have little to improve around the edges or to add any significant depth unless they luck out with some of the younger players or unless they trade those older guys. They're pretty much where the Clippers were in 2020 but their 2 stars are more reliable health-wise. Keeping this current team together a few years down the line would mean that they'd have to go into the 2nd apron, and if they do that they're going to be further limited in what they can do to improve the roster.They won 64 games. This isn't a team that needs to be overhauled.

[ImKobe]

They won 64 games. This isn't a team that needs to be overhauled.

Well you've had a championship window for 3 seasons now and will have at least 2 more years to win one after this. Jaylen's contract will be an issue but tbh most teams would have signed off on his deal just for team chemistry reasons. You will need an overhaul with Horford & Holiday aging though and Jaylen's contract will make it a bit harder to build a similar team around Tatum once JT gets that new contract.

[tpols]

I mean... he's beating up on injured crippled opponents. It's hard to count a title with such a joke path. I know the 2015 warriors had a similar circumstance but they won 3 times after to prove it wasn't a fluke.

Bottom line, if the Celtics win the ring this year it won't really count. Nobody is impressed with yall beating up on cans.

If you knocked a healthy heavyweight out we would show respect but this is just weak.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well you've had a championship window for 3 seasons now and will have at least 2 more years to win one after this. Jaylen's contract will be an issue but tbh most teams would have signed off on his deal just for team chemistry reasons. You will need an overhaul with Horford & Holiday aging though and Jaylen's contract will make it a bit harder to build a similar team around Tatum once JT gets that new contract.
They won 64 games. This isn't a team that needs to be overhauled. If you have a starting five that lead you to over 60 wind that should be good for two years, maybe even three depending on how Holiday ages, you keep that core intact. Brad Stevens is an excellent executive, he'll keep the supporting cast solid (and with Pritchard signed had a leg up in that regard).

[Real Men Wear Green]

I mean... he's beating up on injured crippled opponents. It's hard to count a title with such a joke path. I know the 2015 warriors had a similar circumstance but they won 3 times after to prove it wasn't a fluke.

Bottom line, if the Celtics win the ring this year it won't really count. Nobody is impressed with yall beating up on cans.

If you knocked a healthy heavyweight out we would show respect but this is just weak. It's bad luck and a bit arrogant to talk as if the Celtics already have the championship this year but generally speaking, if a pro sports team wins a championship they have achieved the ultimate goal in their sport, will be remembered and celebrated by the city and state they represent, and could not give a damn about the opinion of some random idiot on the internet.

[beasted]

Last was in the top 15 of jersey sales. Not that that is the reason why he's worth paying all that money, just pointing out that when you say no fan buys his jersey? You're wrong.

The justification for his pay is the same as most any player with that kind of contract: it's the going rate for a star. With the CBA rules and all of the money the league makes in the backs of players his contract will be repeatedly exceeded to the point where it's just a trivia question. His was the first 300 million dollar deal. It will not be the only one. In 4 years evert playoffs team will have one guy with a bigger contract than his and many will have two. People keep freaking out at the numbers and ignore that it's just the going rate.

An NBA team is a business like any other business. Each contract should come with a risk and cost analysis. If player X is signed to Y contract should contribute to Z. Z variables are jersey sales, TV appearances, fans in attendance, projected wins, years of high level production, etc.

To simplify it to "that's what stars get paid" would justify Harden getting a $55M+ max last year from Morey, which we know would have been a poisonous contract. It's never that simple and there are a variety of factors.

Good to know Brown is a bit more popular than I would have thought. I was wrong in that regard.

[tpols]

It's bad luck and a bit arrogant to talk as if the Celtics already have the championship this year but generally speaking, if a pro sports team wins a championship they have achieved the ultimate goal in their sport, will be remembered and celebrated by the city and state they represent, and could not give a damn about the opinion of some random idiot on the internet.


Us "idiots" made these guys collectively billions of dollars. Without our viewership and money these dudes wouldn't have squat. And that actually makes our opinions matter MORE. We fans are the backbone of the NBA. If everybody tuned out, theyd be nothing.

So of course we idiots matter. We're the only reason the league exists as a profitable enterprise.

And I want to re-iterate... if yall don't beat a healthy Dallas? It doesn't count. It's a joke ring that carries no respect. Nobody will be amazed or bowing their heads in respect like we've had to do for other champions.

[Real Men Wear Green]

An NBA team is a business like any other business. Each contract should come with a risk and cost analysis. If player X is signed to Y contract should contribute to Z. Z variables are jersey sales, TV appearances, fans in attendance, projected wins, years of high level production, etc.

To simplify it to "that's what stars get paid" would justify Harden getting a $55M+ max last year from Morey, which we know would have been a poisonous contract. It's never that simple and there are a variety of factors.

Good to know Brown is a bit more popular than I would have thought. I was wrong in that regard.
You think the Celtics don't make money?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Us "idiots" made these guys collectively billions of dollars. Without our viewership and money these dudes wouldn't have squat. And that actually makes our opinions matter MORE. We fans are the backbone of the NBA. If everybody tuned out, theyd be nothing.

So of course we idiots matter. We're the only reason the league exists as a profitable enterprise.

And I want to re-iterate... if yall don't beat a healthy Dallas? It doesn't count. It's a joke ring that carries no respect. Nobody will be amazed or bowing their heads in respect like we've had to do for other champions.
The Celtics don't know you or care about your existence. Bow your head or scratch your balls, no one cares. The banner will go up in the Garden, the city will have a parade, and the team will be remembered as champions. No one in the team is concerned with whatever 5 bucks or 50 bucks you contribute to their collective wealth.

[tpols]

No one in the team is concerned with whatever 5 bucks or 50 bucks you contribute to their collective wealth.


It's way more than that... but if you add it all up across the entire fanbase? Billions of dollars.

No one cares?

:lol

The league wouldn't EXIST if no one cared. And they'd be making no money and this very thread dedicated to a certain players contract wouldn't exist.

You can hang all the banners you want. Certain victories are appreciated more than others.

I give the USA more credit for beating SS Germany in World War 2 than beating up on poor people in Afganistan. You might not. Because you don't know what the word context means.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No one cares.

[Mask the Embiid]

Playing 3 teams in a row missing their 1st option….. so sad. I just feel sorry for ant or Luka because they are going to get hurt next round


This is almost as weak of a run as the nuggets last year

[NBAGOAT]

Did you not notice the metric ton of ****ing up Irving did to make himself a nonmax player? You don't see how George and Leonard's injury history changes his value? Brown is starting his prime. Most of the guys you mention are in their thirties and have major problems. The Celtics with Brown have made the Conference finals almost every year and gotten to the finals once in recent history. He was averaging almost 27 points as the second star. You don't jeopardize that because you think that maybe you could get some bench guy for the cap space that actually would not be created if you got him to take 50 mil per instead of 60. Porzingis and Holiday have both gotten big deals since he signed and Tatum is going to get a contract even bigger than his. Why should Brown settle? He is one of the cornerstones to a perennial championship contender.

irving also had all the leverage and lowkey the reason he got traded from bkn was he didnt like the contract they offered. George doesnt have that serious an injury history and is all-nba lvl every year. sabonis is young and turned around the kings gobert was the best player on a 1 seed and all-nba multiple times. I ofc dont need to tell you how bad miami is without jimmy. Brown should settle because he's the 2nd guy, 2nd guys dont always deserve the supermax. 27ppg is great he played the best defense this year he had in awhile. Still he's not a perennial all-nba guy like booker or mitchell and you feel iffy giving those guys supermaxes because they're not superstars. Porzingis took a short term deal and only makes 30mil/yr that was a steal and he wouldve gotten more as a free agent even with his injury history. holiday got a lot of yrs but arguably took a discount too. he'll make 30 mil next year. whites extension is coming up we'll see what he gets but if he takes less than 40mil, imo it's a steal. I argue jrue/porzingis of those guys took less than market value why shouldnt brown to win a title? I get where you're coming from but youve also overrated brown for last few years on this board compared to consensus.

Yes you won 64 games. The same core doesnt win 64 games every year, they decline to some extent and your bench surprising people was a small part of that. you're going lose some of those pieces. Horford will age likely cant resign hauser etc. One bench piece like hauser can absolutely be the difference between repeating or not. the nuggets went from champions to a 2nd round exit without bruce brown(there were other factors but this is what happened roster wise). If Murray and mpj werent overpaid yea there's a higher chance they still have him.

Edit: looked at sportrac if brown made a few mil less celtics couldve avoided the 2nd apron next year. That makes a huge difference for team building. No it doesnt create cap space but you can lump a bunch of useless vet mins for a bench guy who plays like the suns did for royce o'neale. suns did that move at deadline because that was last time they could do that deal.

[Real Men Wear Green]

irving also had all the leverage and lowkey the reason he got traded from bkn was he didnt like the contract they offered.If Irving has all this leverage then he gets offered a contract that he would find acceptable. He originally got the max when he signed woth Brooklyn. A long list of crap off the court happened that led to him not being offered the max when the time came to negotiate again, Unexcused or explained absences, the war between him the team and the city over the vaccineand then finally the controversy over the movie ge promoted along with a rough injury history all combined to make it so that no one wanted to pay him. Situation doesn't compare to Brown. If Irving wasn't a problem off the court he would get the max. If he was a free agent right now he likely gets the max.
George doesnt have that serious an injury history and is all-nba lvl every year. sabonis is young and turned around the kings gobert was the best player on a 1 seed and all-nba multiple times. Four of the last 5 years George has played under 60 games. Sabonis and the Kings level of success doesn't compare to the Celtics at all.
I ofc dont need to tell you how bad miami is without jimmy.Yes and that's why Riley publicly, recently complained about how many games Butler misses when he was discissing the possible deal Butler may get.Butler is what, 8 years older than Brown? Doesn't compare.
Brown should settle because he's the 2nd guy, 2nd guys dont always deserve the supermax. If the Celtics were dumb enough not to pay him someone else would have. This is capitalism. What you "deserve" is what you can get paid.
27ppg is great he played the best defense this year he had in awhile. Still he's not a perennial all-nba guy like booker or mitchell and you feel iffy giving those guys supermaxes because they're not superstars. He's made All-NBA twice and has in no way declined as a player. You let him go and the Celtics are no longer a Contender while some team like Philly or New York takes him and becomes just as good as if not better than Boston. Star players are actually important.
Porzingis took a short term deal and only makes 30mil/yr that was a steal and he wouldve gotten more as a free agent even with his injury history. holiday got a lot of yrs but arguably took a discount too. he'll make 30 mil next year. whites extension is coming up we'll see what he gets but if he takes less than 40mil, imo it's a steal. I argue jrue/porzingis of those guys took less than market value why shouldnt brown to win a title? I get where you're coming from but youve also overrated brown for last few years on this board compared to consensus.So tou feel that JB makes too much money but Derrick White should get 40 mil? Please tell me what team would pay Derrick White 40 mil. I am not even going to argue about that I'm just curious why you think that's happening.

Your "I think KP and Holiday are underpaid so Brown should take less" isn't real logic, it's just bad business.


Yes you won 64 games. The same core doesnt win 64 games every year, they decline to some extent and your bench surprising people was a small part of that. you're going lose some of those pieces. Horford will age likely cant resign hauser etc. One bench piece like hauser can absolutely be the difference between repeating or not. the nuggets went from champions to a 2nd round exit without bruce brown(there were other factors but this is what happened roster wise). If Murray and mpj werent overpaid yea there's a higher chance they still have him.Hauser is signed through 2025.If in a few years some team offers him a deal Boston can't match then he's about to have an incredible season.


Edit: looked at sportrac if brown made a few mil less celtics couldve avoided the 2nd apron next year. That makes a huge difference for team building. No it doesnt create cap space but you can lump a bunch of useless vet mins for a bench guy who plays like the suns did for royce o'neale. suns did that move at deadline because that was last time they could do that deal.It's nice that you're worried about Wyc B rousbeck's money but I assure you he's a wealtjy man. He himself, during a Celtics broadcast, said that any team owner that is not willing to pay Jaylen Brown should not own the Boston Celtics.

[NBAGOAT]

If Irving has all this leverage then he gets offered a contract that he would find acceptable. He originally got the max when he signed woth Brooklyn. A long list of crap off the court happened that led to him not being offered the max when the time came to negotiate again, Unexcused or explained absences, the war between him the team and the city over the vaccineand then finally the controversy over the movie ge promoted along with a rough injury history all combined to make it so that no one wanted to pay him. Situation doesn't compare to Brown. If Irving wasn't a problem off the court he would get the max. If he was a free agent right now he likely gets the max. Four of the last 5 years George has played under 60 games. Sabonis and the Kings level of success doesn't compare to the Celtics at all. Yes and that's why Riley publicly, recently complained about how many games Butler misses when he was discissing the possible deal Butler may get.Butler is what, 8 years older than Brown? Doesn't compare. If the Celtics were dumb enough not to pay him someone else would have. This is capitalism. What you "deserve" is what you can get paid. He's made All-NBA twice and has in no way declined as a player. You let him go and the Celtics are no longer a Contender while some team like Philly or New York takes him and becomes just as good as if not better than Boston. Star players are actually important.So tou feel that JB makes too much money but Derrick White should get 40 mil? Please tell me what team would pay Derrick White 40 mil. I am not even going to argue about that I'm just curious why you think that's happening.

Your "I think KP and Holiday are underpaid so Brown should take less" isn't real logic, it's just bad business.

Hauser is signed through 2025.If in a few years some team offers him a deal Boston can't match then he's about to have an incredible season.

It's nice that you're worried about Wyc B rousbeck's money but I assure you he's a wealtjy man. He himself, during a Celtics broadcast, said that any team owner that is not willing to pay Jaylen Brown should not own the Boston Celtics.

even in half a season dallas was happy with kyrie they're the one who gave him a slight discount not bkn. sure he has his issues but he was an all-nba lvl guy not even getting the 30% max. George only missed playoffs one year and had all-nba impact pretty much every year including top 10 in every impact metric this year. I never said jaylen shouldnt make more than sabonis. I used Sabonis as example because he was only eligible for the 30% max and they negotiated a slight discount. sabonis would have plenty of playoff success too if he had porzingis white and jrue on his team. Butler is 8 years older he's also lead the heat to 2 finals as their clear best player and he's only asking for a 3 year extension.

No one else can pay brown what boston can. He gets 4 yrs with 5% increases in free agency, boston only has to beat that number not their own max extension.

Where did i say he declined?? he's made 2 teams but he's not an all-nba lock every year. Also never said to let him go you haggle over the contract. how do the knicks get him without a trade?

A bunch of teams would trade multiple 1sts for current derrick and extend him for 40mil. lakers would trade dlo and 3 1sts in a heartbeat to name one team. the vets who get around 30mil are guys like porzingis, jrue, cj, jerami grant etc and white's clearly better than them besides porzingis who's underpaid too and more injury prone. Derrick will be getting a huge contract that eclipses holiday's unless white does boston a favor(he might).

If that's not real logic then your logic of jrue and porzingis being on big contracts means jaylen should not take a discount is also not real logic. I dont even agree with your premise that those guys didnt take discounts however.

hauser wont have to be offered that much for the celtics not to be able to match. celtics can only offer him 140% of an average nba salary for an extension. He'll get more in free agency and what are you talking about with matching. he's unrestricted not restricted. It's pretty damn unlikely he resigns especially with boston in 2nd apron. I'm not worried about the owners pocketbook. overpaying guys infringes on how well you can build the rest of the roster. We just seen this with denver and their bench and not being able to resign bruce brown. Overpaying mpj was one cause of that.

[beasted]

You think the Celtics don't make money?

Boston is going to likely make money regardless of Jaylen Brown. The question and cost analysis remains. The Celtics governors have a business to run and still want higher profits every year, and if you want to trade him, the next team does the same cost risk analysis on his incoming contract.

[hold this L]

There's 3-4 players at most that have the value of a super max. It is one of the worst additions to the NBA, it crushes the income that the rest of the "team" can actually earn.

[Real Men Wear Green]

even in half a season dallas was happy with kyrie they're the one who gave him a slight discount not bkn. sure he has his issues but he was an all-nba lvl guy not even getting the 30% max. George only missed playoffs one year and had all-nba impact pretty much every year including top 10 in every impact metric this year. I never said jaylen shouldnt make more than sabonis. I used Sabonis as example because he was only eligible for the 30% max and they negotiated a slight discount. sabonis would have plenty of playoff success too if he had porzingis white and jrue on his team. Butler is 8 years older he's also lead the heat to 2 finals as their clear best player and he's only asking for a 3 year extension. You pay players for what they will do not what they have done. Of course Riley won't want to hand Butler 60 mil a year when he's 36 when he's missing a ton of games and similar logic applies to Paul George except that unlike Butler you don't have postseason greatness to be grateful for so there's even less reason for a big payday. History tells us that these are guys that probably won't play 65 games.

I am bored with rehashing Irving's history. If you want to think there's no difference between what he did with/to the Nets and Brown helping the Celtics make conference finals five times that's your business.


No one else can pay brown what boston can. He gets 4 yrs with 5% increases in free agency, boston only has to beat that number not their own max extension. But if you don't pay him supermax he is likely to feel slighted and may well decide he wants to find a team where he's the undisputed franchise player or that he has a better shot at a championship with a great big like Embiid, wants to go home to ATL. Any number of things could effect his decision if the Celtics don't show him that they value him at the highest level.


Where did i say he declined?? he's made 2 teams but he's not an all-nba lock every year. Also never said to let him go you haggle over the contract. how do the knicks get him without a trade?I am pointing out that he didn't decline to illustrate the flaw in making a big deal over whether or not he is AllNBA one particular year. Last season he was 2nd team. Is he any worse now or did his stats take a hit because he's surrounded by talent?

A bunch of teams would trade multiple 1sts for current derrick and extend him for 40mil. lakers would trade dlo and 3 1sts in a heartbeat to name one team. the vets who get around 30mil are guys like porzingis, jrue, cj, jerami grant etc and white's clearly better than them besides porzingis who's underpaid too and more injury prone. Derrick will be getting a huge contract that eclipses holiday's unless white does boston a favor(he might). The idea that White is worth 40 mil while Brown is overpaid is amusing to me. Moving on.


If that's not real logic then your logic of jrue and porzingis being on big contracts means jaylen should not take a discount is also not real logic. I dont even agree with your premise that those guys didnt take discounts however.I didn't say they took discounts. I don't know who would be offering them a lot more as free agents. What I do know is that Brown has no reason to care what they get paid while his agent negotiates max dollars.

hauser wont have to be offered that much for the celtics not to be able to match. celtics can only offer him 140% of an average nba salary for an extension. He'll get more in free agency and what are you talking about with matching. he's unrestricted not restricted. It's pretty damn unlikely he resigns especially with boston in 2nd apron. I'm not worried about the owners pocketbook. overpaying guys infringes on how well you can build the rest of the roster. We just seen this with denver and their bench and not being able to resign bruce brown. Overpaying mpj was one cause of that. You have this strange idea that the Celtics are hurting for money. Groesbeck paid 360 mil for the team. It's currently worth 4.7 billion with annual revenue of 443 million. And that's likely just how they report their numbers for tax purposes.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Boston is going to likely make money regardless of Jaylen Brown. The question and cost analysis remains. The Celtics governors have a business to run and still want higher profits every year, and if you want to trade him, the next team does the same cost risk analysis on his incoming contract.
Do you think the Celtics governors are unaware of what Brown is being paid? That they made a mistake or that Bad Stevens is sneakily getting them to sign checks they don't see?

[Real Men Wear Green]

There's 3-4 players at most that have the value of a super max. It is one of the worst additions to the NBA, it crushes the income that the rest of the "team" can actually earn.
Question: Do you think that Michael Jordan was a good owner?

[beasted]

Do you think the Celtics governors are unaware of what Brown is being paid? That they made a mistake or that Bad Stevens is sneakily getting them to sign checks they don't see?

C'mon man. What's this line of questioning? They made the decision and like every idiot, they made it with ultimate confidence they made the right decision.

Do you think homeless people planned on being homeless? That they said "this decision right here will lead to me losing everything, but I'm going to make it anyway."

The purpose of the thread was to discuss the worthiness of Brown getting what he's getting and what he's worth. He's worth $65M to the Celtics just as Dogecoin is priceless to that future homeless person.

By my personal cost analysis as a fan, he's very risky. He's the ultimate "good" player destined to never be great. He will never make all NBA first team, but is paid as such. He will never start an all-star except for injury, but is paid as such. He will never be top 10 in jersey sales but is paid as such. I can go on. I have nothing personal against him. To answer the OP a second time, in a general sense, no, he's not worth his contact. He can only ever be worth his contact to the Celtics of they get whatever they're after with him. To any other team he's overpaid.

[Real Men Wear Green]

C'mon man. What's this line of questioning? They made the decision and like every idiot, they made it with ultimate confidence they made the right decision.

Do you think homeless people planned on being homeless? That they said "this decision right here will lead to me losing everything, but I'm going to make it anyway."

The purpose of the thread was to discuss the worthiness of Brown getting what he's getting and what he's worth. He's worth $65M to the Celtics just as Dogecoin is priceless to that future homeless person.

By my personal cost analysis as a fan, he's very risky. He's the ultimate "good" player destined to never be great. He will never make all NBA first team, but is paid as such. He will never start an all-star except for injury, but is paid as such. He will never be top 10 in jersey sales but is paid as such. I can go on. I have nothing personal against him. To answer the OP a second time, in a general sense, no, he's not worth his contact. He can only ever be worth his contact to the Celtics of they get whatever they're after with him. To any other team he's overpaid.
You are comparing the retaining of a player that has been crucial to several trips to the conference finals to the mistakes that lead to homelessness. Your position is ridiculous.

[Carbine]

Brown is having a playoff run that is at worst a true 1B to Tatum's 1A (and that's being generous to Tatum)

That's worth the amount of money he is being payed.

[beasted]

You are comparing the retaining of a player that has been crucial to several trips to the conference finals to the mistakes that lead to homelessness. Your position is ridiculous.

Each decision should live in a vacuum.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Each decision should live in a vacuum.
Your post should be cleaned with a vacuum. The Celtics would be 0-2 in the conference finals right now without Jaylen Brown. You take him away from the Cs and put him on the Knicks and the Knicks are the #1 seed in the East. He is a crucial star player. The one season Tatum had to truly carry the team without Brown he had to go off for 50 just to get the team through the play-in and then had to go off again just to get one win off the Nets. The Celtics need Brown and the organization knows this. That's why he got paid. You don't haggle over a few million when you're trying to win a championship.

[NBAGOAT]

You pay players for what they will do not what they have done. Of course Riley won't want to hand Butler 60 mil a year when he's 36 when he's missing a ton of games and similar logic applies to Paul George except that unlike Butler you don't have postseason greatness to be grateful for so there's even less reason for a big payday. History tells us that these are guys that probably won't play 65 games.

I am bored with rehashing Irving's history. If you want to think there's no difference between what he did with/to the Nets and Brown helping the Celtics make conference finals five times that's your business.

But if you don't pay him supermax he is likely to feel slighted and may well decide he wants to find a team where he's the undisputed franchise player or that he has a better shot at a championship with a great big like Embiid, wants to go home to ATL. Any number of things could effect his decision if the Celtics don't show him that they value him at the highest level.

I am pointing out that he didn't decline to illustrate the flaw in making a big deal over whether or not he is AllNBA one particular year. Last season he was 2nd team. Is he any worse now or did his stats take a hit because he's surrounded by talent?
The idea that White is worth 40 mil while Brown is overpaid is amusing to me. Moving on.

I didn't say they took discounts. I don't know who would be offering them a lot more as free agents. What I do know is that Brown has no reason to care what they get paid while his agent negotiates max dollars.
You have this strange idea that the Celtics are hurting for money. Groesbeck paid 360 mil for the team. It's currently worth 4.7 billion with annual revenue of 443 million. And that's likely just how they report their numbers for tax purposes.

Fine we’ll go past half the guys I went over. You still ignored the other half. The general point is you can haggle and the star doesn’t have to feel slighted. It’s a negotiation and part of the business and I gave you countless examples of others. You say he’s the franchise player but no that’s not true, Tatum is the franchise player.

When I say all-nba lvl I just mean someone who is a lock but not mvp lvl. It doesn’t matter if he made it this year to my point is he’s a borderline guy in the top 20 range. Mitchell and Booker are
Examples of guys who are locks every year. Even guys like lebron/kd are at that lvl not mvp lvl but all-nba locks. If you think jaylen is at the lvl of lebron or kd then fair but I think you’re overrating him then.

Porzingis absolutely took a discount. Mil clippers etc would’ve extended jrue for more money if they had him. White is better than those 2 yea him deserving 40 is perfectly reasonable. Jaylen makes like 55 his first yr, I’m asking for it to be like 48 more than white no logical inconsistency. You’ve greatly underrated white the past year or two too even tbf lumping him with the other members of supporting cast. His agent shouldn’t care but the team does while they negotiate. If they tried to offer him less fair enough maybe he wouldnt take it.

No need to put words in my mouth to win an argument. I said I’m not worried about Celtics financial situation or how much money the Celtics make. That’s irrelevant. It’s because of the 2nd apron and cap rules they can’t pay what he’ll get in fa. Subreddit fir Celtics discussed it they can’t keep hauser next offseason. Denver literally couldn’t give brown more than a certain amount it wasn’t a lack of money issue.

[NBAGOAT]

Brown is having a playoff run that is at worst a true 1B to Tatum's 1A (and that's being generous to Tatum)

That's worth the amount of money he is being payed.

Derrick been the best player this run however. 18ppg on elite efficiency and does everything on offense elite shooter good playmaker even a heavy screener for Tatum/brown. and he’s their best on ball/help defender.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Fine we’ll go past half the guys I went over. You still ignored the other half. The general point is you can haggle and the star doesn’t have to feel slighted. It’s a negotiation and part of the business and I gave you countless examples of others. You say he’s the franchise player but no that’s not true, Tatum is the franchise player.

When I say all-nba lvl I just mean someone who is a lock but not mvp lvl. It doesn’t matter if he made it this year to my point is he’s a borderline guy in the top 20 range. Mitchell and Booker are
Examples of guys who are locks every year. Even guys like lebron/kd are at that lvl not mvp lvl but all-nba locks. If you think jaylen is at the lvl of lebron or kd then fair but I think you’re overrating him then.

Porzingis absolutely took a discount. Mil clippers etc would’ve extended jrue for more money if they had him. White is better than those 2 yea him deserving 40 is perfectly reasonable. Jaylen makes like 55 his first yr, I’m asking for it to be like 48 more than white no logical inconsistency. You’ve greatly underrated white the past year or two too even tbf lumping him with the other members of supporting cast. His agent shouldn’t care but the team does while they negotiate. If they tried to offer him less fair enough maybe he wouldnt take it.

No need to put words in my mouth to win an argument. I said I’m not worried about Celtics financial situation or how much money the Celtics make. That’s irrelevant. It’s because of the 2nd apron and cap rules they can’t pay what he’ll get in fa. Subreddit fir Celtics discussed it they can’t keep hauser next offseason. Denver literally couldn’t give brown more than a certain amount it wasn’t a lack of money issue.
If White can get 40 mil per from someone then good for him but with Holiday and Porzingis getting 30 per I don't see it. It's inconsistent that you think the Celtics should have tried to pay Brown 7mil per less because of what other teams could offer but somehow giving White 40 per makes perfect sense. Teams are going to be offering White 40 mil per? Who?

Brown wouldn't have to feel slighted by haggling but all the statements that he made leading up to the extensions showed that he definitely would be. The Celtics had to deal with the reality and the reality currently has them up 2-0 in the conference finals. Your position could easily have cost them the best wing duo in the NBA and broken up a contender. No thanks.

All that talk about luxury tax aprons is you being concerned with Grousbeck's money. Denver made a financial decision regarding certain roleplayers that may have cost them a shot at the title this year. That's their business. Doesn't mean the Celtics have to operate the same way.

[ImKobe]

Teams are going to be offering White 40 mil per? Who?


I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs did. I don't think it would be as high as 40 but probably higher than what anyone else could afford to offer. Wemby's gonna be on a rookie contract (12-17M a year) up until 2027 and White would be the perfect vet to have on that team. They can afford to overpay for White & grab an All-star in a trade if they choose to part ways with some of their picks & players who did not fit that great with Victor last year.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So you think a rebuilding team is going to pay 40 mil per for a guy that didn't make the allstar team? Because I don't see how that's sensible. He's 9 or 10 years older than Wembanyama and if they wanted him badly enough to pay 40 mil per they wouldn't have traded him to the Celtics to begin with.

[ImKobe]

Like I said, the Spurs can afford to overpay for an elite role player because of Wemby's contract if they have the space for it. White has arguably been the best player on the Celtics in these Playoffs because of how efficient he's been.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Like I said, the Spurs can afford to overpay for an elite role player because of Wemby's contract if they have the space for it. White has arguably been the best player on the Celtics in these Playoffs because of how efficient he's been.
Tatum is averaging 25 points 10 rebounds and 5.6 assists. Brown is averaging 25 points 6.5 rebounds and hit a potentially historic clutch shot in Game 1 of the conference finals and also got the clutch steal that led to that clutch shot. Derrick White's 18 points and 4 assists are a good contribution but he's not on that level.

[Real Men Wear Green]

And again: San Antonio traded White away. They traded him away so that they could offer him 40 nil per to be 30+ years old on their rebuilding team? You guys will just say anything.

[ImKobe]

Tatum is averaging 25 points 10 rebounds and 5.6 assists. Brown is averaging 25 points 6.5 rebounds and hit a potentially historic clutch shot in Game 1 of the conference finals and also got the clutch steal that led to that clutch shot. Derrick White's 18 points and 4 assists are a good contribution but he's not on that level.

White leads them in WS, BPM & VORP in the POs. He's far more efficient than Tatum. He's shooting 8.4 threes per game and making 43.6% of them. His defense is great. He basically never turns the ball over either.

There's definitely a case to be made. Also, if you're fine with paying Jaylen Brown 60+ Million a year, I think White is worth at least half of that figure, and the Celtics can't afford to match that offer.

[ImKobe]

And again: San Antonio traded White away. They traded him away so that they could offer him 40 nil per to be 30+ years old on their rebuilding team? You guys will just say anything.

They traded him away to tank for Wemby. They got Wemby now. I'm sure White wasn't interested to be on a tanking team either. Both sides would be happy to re-unite I'm sure. He makes so much sense in a Manu role on a team led by Victor.

[Kblaze8855]

So you think a rebuilding team is going to pay 40 mil per for a guy that didn't make the allstar team? Because I don't see how that's sensible. He's 9 or 10 years older than Wembanyama and if they wanted him badly enough to pay 40 mil per they wouldn't have traded him to the Celtics to begin with.

A team like the Spurs would be completely justified giving him 40 million. By the end of that 40 people will be making 65 or 70. 95 million a year is coming in the near future. 40 for white now will be like the 30 for Conley was once we realized people we never heard of would get 25. Went from the biggest contract in history to being completely normal in about 45 minutes.

Plus a guy like white is probably never going to make an all NBA team, which would force your hand to make him a $400 million super max guy or have him walk. He’s comparable to Vanvleet right now who makes more than 40 before the cap explodes.

Rookie extensions are up to $260 million. You can pay 40 something million to your third best player right now and have a talented lineup. You lock one in at 40 as the cap rises?

Someone like Scotty Barnes is going to be making $78 million pretty soon and it won’t be an outlier. It’s gonna take expansion and larger rosters to have enough players in the league to keep the top guys from making 100 million during Whites career. Do the math on built-in 10% raises from the cap smoothing design to prevent the one year $40 million raise they would have to do without it. Start at 140 and add 10% a year from that.

i’m talking about adding 14 million. Then 15+. Then 17. And all the money that doesn’t go to raising the cap immediately just gets rolled forward to cover future years it might not rise. So we’re looking at long term gigantic yearly raises. You lock him in at 40 flat and not a percentage of the cap? He gets cheaper every year till the end he’s 30% cheaper relatively speaking.


It’s what so many people don’t realize. The new rights deal being more than double was foreseen and the extra money was rolled forward on purpose to ensure giant but manageable raises. The league and owners are going to make a lot more money than the CBA will allow them to pay the players immediately. They just have to roll it forward and pay it to the union eventually. It eliminates any possible downside.

The owners don’t give a **** about salaries because they come out of a well of money deeper than they can even pay out. Players agreed to steady raises and no risk of cutbacks and owners have long term manageable costs they can predict and control. Any perceived mistakes can just be absorbed by cap increases and minimized.

A 40 million guy you might prefer to pay 30 isn’t even a difference worth caring about to them anymore.

[Real Men Wear Green]

White leads them in WS, BPM & VORP in the POs. He's far more efficient than Tatum. He's shooting 8.4 threes per game and making 43.6% of them. His defense is great. He basically never turns the ball over either.

There's definitely a case to be made. Also, if you're fine with paying Jaylen Brown 60+ Million a year, I think White is worth at least half of that figure, and the Celtics can't afford to match that offer. The Celtics are beating teams by double- digits with regulatory this postseason and you are bringing up "value over replacement" as of it matters. Jaylen Brown is the one that had stepped up most in these two conference Finals and the only Celtic that they don't win without. He's the guy that could win EC playoff mvp over Tatum, not White. If the Celtics make the Finals the play that everyone tenderness and the biggest play is going to be Brown stealing the win away from the Pacers. Nothing else comes close...and then he followed it up with 40 points in the next game.

I am fine with White getting a billion dollars. I think he should go for a much money as possible. I just don't think a team should be paying him more than Holiday and Porzingis. If he gets more, good for him. None of that means that Brown shouldn't go for his money. When the time comes to negotiate I suspect the Celtics will be signing him to the correct deal.

[Real Men Wear Green]

A team like the Spurs would be completely justified giving him 40 million. By the end of that 40 people will be making 65 or 70. 95 million a year is coming in the near future. 40 for white now will be like the 30 for Conley was once we realized people we never heard of would get 25. Went from the biggest contract in history to being completely normal in about 45 minutes.

Plus a guy like white is probably never going to make an all NBA team, which would force your hand to make him a $400 million super max guy or have him walk. He’s comparable to Vanvleet right now who makes more than 40 before the cap explodes.

Rookie extensions are up to $260 million. You can pay 40 something million to your third best player right now and have a talented lineup. You lock one in at 40 as the cap rises?

Someone like Scotty Barnes is going to be making $78 million pretty soon and it won’t be an outlier. It’s gonna take expansion and larger rosters to have enough players in the league to keep the top guys from making 100 million during Whites career. Do the math on built-in 10% raises from the cap smoothing design to prevent the one year $40 million raise they would have to do without it. Start at 140 and add 10% a year from that.

i’m talking about adding 14 million. Then 15+. Then 17. And all the money that doesn’t go to raising the cap immediately just gets rolled forward to cover future years it might not rise. So we’re looking at long term gigantic yearly raises. You lock him in at 40 flat and not a percentage of the cap? He gets cheaper every year till the end he’s 30% cheaper relatively speaking.


It’s what so many people don’t realize. The new rights deal being more than double was foreseen and the extra money was rolled forward on purpose to ensure giant but manageable raises. The league and owners are going to make a lot more money than the CBA will allow them to pay the players immediately. They just have to roll it forward and pay it to the union eventually. It eliminates any possible downside.

The owners don’t give a **** about salaries because they come out of a well of money deeper than they can even pay out. Players agreed to steady raises and no risk of cutbacks and owners have long term manageable costs they can predict and control. Any perceived mistakes can just be absorbed by cap increases and minimized.

A 40 million guy you might prefer to pay 30 isn’t even a difference worth caring about to them anymore.
If all this is true then great. Just more reason not to be concerned with Brown getting his deal.

[Real Men Wear Green]

They traded him away to tank for Wemby. They got Wemby now. I'm sure White wasn't interested to be on a tanking team either. Both sides would be happy to re-unite I'm sure. He makes so much sense in a Manu role on a team led by Victor.
He's 10 years older than Wembanyama, if they want a cow whose primes are a match he doesn't fit. Him going back there is only possible if he hits free agency which only happens if the Celtics can't agree to a deal. And if that's the case there's a high likelihood that the Celtics trade him, but it's more likely that they figure out what the right number is and he spends the rest of his prime competing for championships. The only thing better about San Antonio is the weather.

[beasted]

Your post should be cleaned with a vacuum. The Celtics would be 0-2 in the conference finals right now without Jaylen Brown. You take him away from the Cs and put him on the Knicks and the Knicks are the #1 seed in the East. He is a crucial star player. The one season Tatum had to truly carry the team without Brown he had to go off for 50 just to get the team through the play-in and then had to go off again just to get one win off the Nets. The Celtics need Brown and the organization knows this. That's why he got paid. You don't haggle over a few million when you're trying to win a championship.
Such a poor rebuttal since you know it doesn't work that way. Add an allstar for free to almost any playoff team and they are #1 in their conference. Add Brunson the Heat and they embarrass the Celtics.

Can Jaylen Brown be the #1 player with 1 other allstar and lead that team to a title? He's already proven for multiple years now he can't.

Can he be an integral piece to a stacked team like this iteration of the Celtics? Yes. But that doesn't justify his salary. As I said multiple posts ago, he can only be worth his contact to the Celtics.

[Kblaze8855]

Can Jaylen Brown be the #1 player with 1 other allstar and lead that team to a title? He's already proven for multiple years now he can't.



not doing something isn’t proving you can’t. Plenty of people who did exactly what you’re asking for didn’t do it for over a decade until they did. They weren’t proving they can’t while they weren’t doing it. I bet I would miss an extra point kick 58 times in a row, but that wouldn’t prove it was impossible for me to make one.

Not that your question even seems reasonable. At the salary he’s on his team can still afford multiple additional All-Stars. So why would he need to prove he can win with only one to justify it?

Tatum is gonna sign for like 334 million dollars. Brown having the second biggest deal on his team sounds about right.

[beasted]

not doing something isn’t proving you can’t. Plenty of people who did exactly what you’re asking for didn’t do it for over a decade until they did. They weren’t proving they can’t while they weren’t doing it. I bet I would miss an extra point kick 58 times in a row, but that wouldn’t prove it was impossible for me to make one.

Not that your question even seems reasonable. At the salary he’s on his team can still afford multiple additional All-Stars. So why would he need to prove he can win with only one to justify it?

Tatum is gonna sign for like 334 million dollars. Brown having the second biggest deal on his team sounds about right.
You've made some points, but the most important point is he hasn't even been the best player over those years sans maybe this season.

So the theory of "#1" is completely valid. #2 is the best case scenario.

[Kblaze8855]

You've made some points, but the most important point is he hasn't even been the best player over those years sans maybe this season.

So the theory of "#1" is completely valid. #2 is the best case scenario.


Why would he need to be? Your pay is not determined by your ranking. Is determined by who comes up first to get paid. Fans never stop with this. You weren’t paid by your status in the league or historically. An ever rising cap forces ever larger contracts, and whoever signs First gets the money And then whoever signs after that will get more. Giannis signed the biggest contract in NBA history in 2020 at 228 million. And just one season later the Nuggets gave MPJ a contract That depending on incentives can get to 207. He had started 62 games in his career at that point. And he joined like 6 players ever with a deal that size.

And the only reason you don’t hear about it is because it was immediately the new standard and we already have 3 rookies from 2020 who have signed deals that will pay them 260 million and Bane signed for 207.

highest paid isn’t a ranking of ability. It’s just a marker of who signed when. Three quarterbacks nobody has as elite are signing for $50 million this season. The list of quarterbacks to be the highest paid ever is hilarious. But the records get beaten every year or two because, it is a constant climb.

None of this is a direct ability to pay thing but fans will not stop acting like it is. There is structure. You get paid the most when you go first. And next in line gets more. And then more. And more. It isn’t an ongoing evaluation.

It’s just the line. You get to the front you get yours. If you stay healthy and out of jail, you don’t even have to improve to get a massive raise when you get back to the front. They aren’t evaluating each person in the line. The person at the front gets a scoop. And the scoop gets bigger and bigger.

Until networks and streaming services don’t need live sports for credibility the serving dish keeps getting bigger. Stay healthy enough to get back to the front of the line you will get a bigger scoop than the last guy.

The cafeteria doesn’t care anymore. They quite literally have more food than their contract with the diners will allow them to serve. They bump the spoon up by 10% every off-season and still have to freeze some for next week. Nobody but fans gives a **** about this money.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Such a poor rebuttal since you know it doesn't work that way. Add an allstar for free to almost any playoff team and they are #1 in their conference. Add Brunson the Heat and they embarrass the Celtics.

Can Jaylen Brown be the #1 player with 1 other allstar and lead that team to a title? He's already proven for multiple years now he can't.

Can he be an integral piece to a stacked team like this iteration of the Celtics? Yes. But that doesn't justify his salary. As I said multiple posts ago, he can only be worth his contact to the Celtics. The Knicks will have the flexibility to make a trade happen and Philly will have Mac cap space. The Celtics without JB would not be well equipped to deal with Brown, Maxey and Embiid. What justification to pay him is needed beyond him being a star that they can't win a ring without while he could make a playoff opponent a Contender? Letting him walk would be stupid.

[Kblaze8855]

The Knicks will have the flexibility to make a trade happen and Philly will have Mac cap space. The Celtics without JB would not be well equipped to deal with Brown, Maxey and Embiid. What justification to pay him is needed beyond him being a star that they can't win a ring without while he could make a playoff opponent a Contender? Letting him walk would be stupid.


when the choices maybe win a title or definitely don’t I don’t even know how it’s a discussion. When it’s a team on the verge of a rebuild or may be needing one at least there’s the discussion to be had about if you blow up and start over. If you’re trying to win a championship now, you’re just Pay and hope for the best.

The Nuggets certainly didn’t give Porter Junior a contract he earned by starting 60 something games in his life. But they thought maybe they could win. The one win is worth all the rest. If he never gets where they wanted…the ring makes it worth it.


If your owner isn’t pro tanking….you just pay market value. And market value for an all nba guy is a couple metric **** tons. Either Pay it all or rebuild. Both decent options. But there isn’t really a third one I can think of. Celtics were way too good to rebuild.

It’s only really a question if you are torn between those two options. The Celtics being so close makes the choice for them.

If they win one it doesn’t matter if he makes 96 million. And if they don’t they can’t be clowned for going for it.

[NBAGOAT]

If White can get 40 mil per from someone then good for him but with Holiday and Porzingis getting 30 per I don't see it. It's inconsistent that you think the Celtics should have tried to pay Brown 7mil per less because of what other teams could offer but somehow giving White 40 per makes perfect sense. Teams are going to be offering White 40 mil per? Who?

Brown wouldn't have to feel slighted by haggling but all the statements that he made leading up to the extensions showed that he definitely would be. The Celtics had to deal with the reality and the reality currently has them up 2-0 in the conference finals. Your position could easily have cost them the best wing duo in the NBA and broken up a contender. No thanks.

All that talk about luxury tax aprons is you being concerned with Grousbeck's money. Denver made a financial decision regarding certain roleplayers that may have cost them a shot at the title this year. That's their business. Doesn't mean the Celtics have to operate the same way.

Yea I think you’re underrating him. white is clearly a better guy in terms of impact and age and health than jrue or porzingis. Ok fair enough about jaylen if he wanted the max only. Celtics had no choice then.

You’re still not understanding the cap situation. Denver wasn’t allowed to pay Bruce more than a certain amount. Had nothing to do with owners being cheap. The kings have the same problem with Malik monk they can’t give him more than 19mil/yr. The Celtics are same with hauser cannot give him more than 140% of an average nba salary for an extension

[NBAGOAT]

when the choices maybe win a title or definitely don’t I don’t even know how it’s a discussion. When it’s a team on the verge of a rebuild or may be needing one at least there’s the discussion to be had about if you blow up and start over. If you’re trying to win a championship now, you’re just Pay and hope for the best.

The Nuggets certainly didn’t give Porter Junior a contract he earned by starting 60 something games in his life. But they thought maybe they could win. The one win is worth all the rest. If he never gets where they wanted…the ring makes it worth it.


If your owner isn’t pro tanking….you just pay market value. And market value for an all nba guy is a couple metric **** tons. Either Pay it all or rebuild. Both decent options. But there isn’t really a third one I can think of. Celtics were way too good to rebuild.

It’s only really a question if you are torn between those two options. The Celtics being so close makes the choice for them.

If they win one it doesn’t matter if he makes 96 million. And if they don’t they can’t be clowned for going for it.

You can haggle sometimes that’s the 3rd option but rmwg said it wasn’t on table. Sabonis was all nba these 2 years didn’t get the full max he was eligible for which was only a 30% max too not
the 35% supermax. Was only a few mil but that could help kings with roster move down the line

[beasted]

The Knicks will have the flexibility to make a trade happen and Philly will have Mac cap space. The Celtics without JB would not be well equipped to deal with Brown, Maxey and Embiid. What justification to pay him is needed beyond him being a star that they can't win a ring without while he could make a playoff opponent a Contender? Letting him walk would be stupid.

This is not a logical point. If Philly wasn't a threat with Embiid, Harden, Harris, Maxey, and a fleet of solid role players, what makes them suddenly a juggernaut with Embiid, Brown, Maxey, whatever they can fit under the Room Exception ($7.8M), and a bunch of minimum contracts (because they'd have no ability to retain the rights on anyone else)?

To me it's very evident you value Brown's impact equivalent to a top 8 player if you think that way, which would be an unfounded belief.

Knicks have no ability to sign or obtain Brown without sign and trade assistance from Boston, just like many other playoff teams looking to get better, so I'm not sure where you're going there.

The basis of your argument appears to continue to ride on the fact that he makes Boston a better team than not having him, which is such a common sense point it doesn't need to be stated.

Again, the cost analysis of whether a player is worth what you're paying them is based on marketing/ filing seats/money- making components and then winning components in a nutshell.

I think Brown is solid from the popularity angle but not great. From the winning angle it's more or less the same. He's a very good player in terms of elevating an already solid team to contender status, but not a great in that he will carry a team to wins over a better opponent on paper. He's just a "good" not a "great". Right now his contact hasn't become and impediment to fielding a good team, and he's most valuable on a cap locked contender like the Celtics. But it's easy to see how it carries significant risk to directly contribute to a collapse of the Cs, as well as he'd be a bad contract to a non- cap locked team trying to build itself to contender status.

Replace Dejounte Murray with Brown making $24M more, and Atlanta instantly becomes the most toxic payroll in the league. Hopefully it's plain as daylight that while Brown is better, he's not $24M better from any value proposition one could imagine vs Murray.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yea I think you’re underrating him. white is clearly a better guy in terms of impact and age and health than jrue or porzingis. Ok fair enough about jaylen if he wanted the max only. Celtics had no choice then.

You’re still not understanding the cap situation. Denver wasn’t allowed to pay Bruce more than a certain amount. Had nothing to do with owners being cheap. The kings have the same problem with Malik monk they can’t give him more than 19mil/yr. The Celtics are same with hauser cannot give him more than 140% of an average nba salary for an extension
So you can continue to obsess over whether or not saving a few mil on Brown will make Hauser hard to retain if you want but I'm pretty sure Brown was and is the priority. Hauser can be dealt with when the time comes.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is not a logical point. If Philly wasn't a threat with Embiid, Harden, Harris, Maxey, and a fleet of solid role players, what makes them suddenly a juggernaut with Embiid, Brown, Maxey, whatever they can fit under the Room Exception ($7.8M), and a bunch of minimum contracts (because they'd have no ability to retain the rights on anyone else)?

To me it's very evident you value Brown's impact equivalent to a top 8 player if you think that way, which would be an unfounded belief.

Knicks have no ability to sign or obtain Brown without sign and trade assistance from Boston, just like many other playoff teams looking to get better, so I'm not sure where you're going there.

The basis of your argument appears to continue to ride on the fact that he makes Boston a better team than not having him, which is such a common sense point it doesn't need to be stated.

Again, the cost analysis of whether a player is worth what you're paying them is based on marketing/ filing seats/money- making components and then winning components in a nutshell.

I think Brown is solid from the popularity angle but not great. From the winning angle it's more or less the same. He's a very good player in terms of elevating an already solid team to contender status, but not a great in that he will carry a team to wins over a better opponent on paper. He's just a "good" not a "great". Right now his contact hasn't become and impediment to fielding a good team, and he's most valuable on a cap locked contender like the Celtics. But it's easy to see how it carries significant risk to directly contribute to a collapse of the Cs, as well as he'd be a bad contract to a non- cap locked team trying to build itself to contender status.

Replace Dejounte Murray with Brown making $24M more, and Atlanta instantly becomes the most toxic payroll in the league. Hopefully it's plain as daylight that while Brown is better, he's not $24M better from any value proposition one could imagine vs Murray.
I see the problem: you probably just think Brown sucks. There will be no reasoning here.

[beasted]

I see the problem: you probably just think Brown sucks. There will be no reasoning here.

That's really what you took away? Try again.

[beasted]

I've added enough here, but here is fruit for thought for the Brown advocates:

What makes Brown worth the supermax over just the max extension he was eligible to sign?

It's likely to be a lot of thumb twiddling on any answer to that question.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That's really what you took away? Try again.
You think an allstar that is averaging 23 on 50% with excellent defense that has averaged 27 efficiently just last season would make no difference for Philly (that's where I stopped reading). You don't think he's a star. The end.

[NBAGOAT]

So you can continue to obsess over whether or not saving a few mil on Brown will make Hauser hard to retain if you want but I'm pretty sure Brown was and is the priority. Hauser can be dealt with when the time comes.

oh ik brown is more important than hauser. Just saying not having one role guy couldve cost denver a title this year. However yes I think it was presumptuous for you to assume because boston won 64 games they're set for the next few years. It just hasnt worked that way in history even as talented as boston is. If owner doesnt keep the starting 5 together for more than 2 years(end of porzingis deal) then we can really have a discussion about brown's supermax being worth but we'll see. I doubt it tbf plan seems to keep starting 5 together for jrue's whole contract and bolster bench through draft and vet mins. Possibly trade jrue at the end of his deal for another star

[beasted]

You think an allstar that is averaging 23 on 50% with excellent defense that has averaged 27 efficiently just last season would make no difference for Philly (that's where I stopped reading). You don't think he's a star. The end.

Yup, that's exactly what i said. Enjoy your memorial day weekend, folks.

[NBAGOAT]

White leads them in WS, BPM & VORP in the POs. He's far more efficient than Tatum. He's shooting 8.4 threes per game and making 43.6% of them. His defense is great. He basically never turns the ball over either.

There's definitely a case to be made. Also, if you're fine with paying Jaylen Brown 60+ Million a year, I think White is worth at least half of that figure, and the Celtics can't afford to match that offer.

he's been by far the best celtic in playoffs by epm too and was 2nd best during regular season after tatum. Small sample but it's one of the best predictive impact stats out there. 18ppg is not 24ppg but he's more efficient and a better playmaker shooter and defender than the J's.

[Real Men Wear Green]

oh ik brown is more important than hauser. Just saying not having one role guy couldve cost denver a title this year. However yes I think it was presumptuous for you to assume because boston won 64 games they're set for the next few years. It just hasnt worked that way in history even as talented as boston is. If owner doesnt keep the starting 5 together for more than 2 years(end of porzingis deal) then we can really have a discussion about brown's supermax being worth but we'll see. I doubt it tbf plan seems to keep starting 5 together for jrue's whole contract and bolster bench through draft and vet mins. Possibly trade jrue at the end of his deal for another star
Uf the Celtics don't win a championship over the next few years big change is coming regardless. They have a chance to win right now with JB. They're going for it. Whatever Hauser gets paid in a few years will be what he gets, if it's in Boston, great, if he has to go elsewhere, best of luck, oh well.

[NBAGOAT]

Uf the Celtics don't win a championship over the next few years big change is coming regardless. They have a chance to win right now with JB. They're going for it. Whatever Hauser gets paid in a few years will be what he gets, if it's in Boston, great, if he has to go elsewhere, best of luck, oh well.

they could win this year and be in contention next few years. Stevens does like making changes but this starting lineup is stacked and seems hard to improve outside trading jrue when he ages

[Kblaze8855]

You can haggle sometimes that’s the 3rd option but rmwg said it wasn’t on table. Sabonis was all nba these 2 years didn’t get the full max he was eligible for which was only a 30% max too not
the 35% supermax. Was only a few mil but that could help kings with roster move down the line


Sure. Getting someone to work for you for less than market value is always smart. You just can’t assume the option will be available. Even people who like going to work don’t like to see somebody they consider equal or worse than them having a bunch of extra money.

I often see fans make the argument that once you’re rich, it doesn’t matter if you get a few million more next time but that’s just poor people trying to apply a standard these guys don’t live by. They are a lot like us. You don’t just get rich and stop being greedy. You get rich and you start having ambitions you previously never dreamed of.

Another factor….Jaylen Brown is A vice president of the players union. He is somebody in the room for big business decisions. Union officials always want to push salaries higher. It’s not as bad as the NFL where every top guy gets pressure from the union to set a new benchmark at every opportunity because of the structured nature of nba deals…but a union guy giving a big hometeam discount also wouldn’t send the right message.

Hes supposed to get all his money and establish that letting the benchmarks gets you all your money.

Wrong guy to talk into taking less. He would probably see it as a greater responsibility not to establish that you hit the metrics and standards and still don’t get paid.

[NBAGOAT]

Sure. Getting someone to work for you for less than market value is always smart. You just can’t assume the option will be available. Even people who like going to work don’t like to see somebody they consider equal or worse than them having a bunch of extra money.

I often see fans make the argument that once you’re rich, it doesn’t matter if you get a few million more next time but that’s just poor people trying to apply a standard these guys don’t live by. They are a lot like us. You don’t just get rich and stop being greedy. You get rich and you start having ambitions you previously never dreamed of.

Another factor….Jaylen Brown is A vice president of the players union. He is somebody in the room for big business decisions. Union officials always want to push salaries higher. It’s not as bad as the NFL where every top guy gets pressure from the union to set a new benchmark at every opportunity because of the structured nature of nba deals…but a union guy giving a big hometeam discount also wouldn’t send the right message.

Hes supposed to get all his money and establish that letting the benchmarks gets you all your money.

Wrong guy to talk into taking less. He would probably see it as a greater responsibility not to establish that you hit the metrics and standards and still don’t get paid.

yea fair point about the players union. If haggling wasnt on the table then you take option A.

[hold this L]

Question: Do you think that Michael Jordan was a good owner?

No, I don't think anybody does. Pretty sure he stopped being friends with Chuck because of that reason :lol

[Real Men Wear Green]

They've already extended Holiday and Porzingis. Any team that has collected a great core is going to have to pay out a lot of money but so long as the Celtics ownership is willing to pay the bill (and they are) its not a problem.
Update: Derrick White is getting an extension for 4 years, 125 mil. Celtics activated the option on Hauser and they are negotiating an extension.

So I'm sure that this will have the team wearing, like, five aprons. On the same day White's extension is announced the Celtics have anounced that the team is up for sale. So the approach of the next buyers could change things...after 2028. The following are just my thoughts:

They bought the team for 360 mil. Team is currently valued at 4.7 billion. Who ever buys this team is going to be Ballmer-rich. I'm hoping it's not the Saudis. The purchaser hopefully buys because they want a ready-made winner. But either way the current core would be getting another 4 years. And you really can't predict any team's future past 4 years.

[gengiskhan]

No

300 is too much of a money for a star who cannot score more than 21 ppg in finals.

210 is fine. But he is way way overpaid. despite weakest of the weak FMVP.

[AirBonner]

No

300 is too much of a money for a star who cannot score more than 21 ppg in finals.

210 is fine. But he is way way overpaid. despite weakest of the weak FMVP.

Because the team is loaded? Celtics just paid their entire starting lineup. The offense is spread so not one player has to go into full on chuck mode

[Neal Romer]

What I would say is, regardless of contract size he has proven he is now worthy of playing with Lebron.


Get it done, Rob :crazysam:

[beasted]

Because the team is loaded? Celtics just paid their entire starting lineup. The offense is spread so not one player has to go into full on chuck mode

This was literally his highest scoring playoff run of his career. :facepalm :oldlol:

[AirBonner]

This was literally his highest scoring playoff run of his career. :facepalm :oldlol:

Just a few years ago people were saying Boston was cheap and petty not taking care of their players. Now Boston pays everyone and people still bitch. Man stfu

[Real Men Wear Green]

This was literally his highest scoring playoff run of his career. :facepalm :oldlol:

Why is 23.9 laughable? Especially considering he's never been first option. He has four 20+ ppg postseason and a career playoff average of 19. These are solid numbers.

[beasted]

Why is 23.9 laughable? Especially considering he's never been first option. He has four 20+ ppg postseason and a career playoff average of 19. These are solid numbers.

I'm still awaiting an answer to a question I posed months ago and got crickets from you:

What makes Brown worth the supermax and not the max?

[AirBonner]

I'm still awaiting an answer to a question I posed months ago and got crickets from you:

What makes Brown worth the supermax and not the max?

Because Rings motherfvcker

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm still awaiting an answer to a question I posed months ago and got crickets from you:

What makes Brown worth the supermax and not the max?

I probably didn't see the point in continuing the conversation. To give you the answer I feel I've likely already said, JB is vitally important to the Celtics championship formula. You think it's smart to risk screwing up a potential multiple nba champion, ok. I think that's stupid. Which is likely why I would have left your question unanswered.

[beasted]

I probably didn't see the point in continuing the conversation. To give you the answer I feel I've likely already said, JB is vitally important to the Celtics championship formula. You think it's smart to risk screwing up a potential multiple nba champion, ok. I think that's stupid. Which is likely why I would have left your question unanswered.

Screwing up a Championship formula before they even became champs? Paying him more than any other team could pay him by giving him a max (and not the supermax) is trying to kill the formula?

To each his own. The only thing you're right about is that there's no having a logical conversation about anything Celtics with you. You're incapable of an impartial opinion rooted in any facts or logical comparisons to other players.

[AirBonner]

Screwing up a Championship formula before they even became champs? Paying him more than any other team could pay him by giving him a max (and not the supermax) is trying to kill the formula?

To each his own. The only thing you're right about is that there's no having a logical conversation about anything Celtics with you. You're incapable of an impartial opinion rooted in any facts or logical comparisons to other players.

You are strange. Imagine breaking up a tandem before they reached their prime. Denver proved why it’s worthwhile to hang on to your young talent and not give up. Celtics just cemented that notion.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Screwing up a Championship formula before they even became champs? Yes. That's even worse, the Celtics could have one less championship if Stevens thought like you.
Paying him more than any other team could pay him by giving him a max (and not the supermax) is trying to kill the formula?You have never heard of a player being offended by a contract offer. That's fine but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We have had this conversation before.


To each his own. The only thing you're right about is that there's no having a logical conversation about anything Celtics with you. You're incapable of an impartial opinion rooted in any facts or logical comparisons to other players. You are the idiot that would actually say the Celtics did the wrong thing after Brown led them to a championship and earned finals MVP. Go take a look in the mirror. I've been arguing with morons for years about the value of Tatum and Brown. Guess what? We Celtics fans have been right all along.

[beasted]

Yes. That's even worse, the Celtics could have one less championship if Stevens thought like you. You have never heard of a player being offended by a contract offer. That's fine but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We have had this conversation before.

You are the idiot that would actually say the Celtics did the wrong thing after Brown led them to a championship and earned finals MVP. Go take a look in the mirror. I've been arguing with morons for years about the value of Tatum and Brown. Guess what? We Celtics fans have been right all along.

How could the Celtics have one less championship when the earliest that Brown could become a free agent is this summer?

Also, in this hypothetical alternate reality, Brown would be so offended by the Celtics offer that he would have left for less years and less money per year.

Right.

[Real Men Wear Green]

How could the Celtics have one less championship when the earliest that Brown could become a free agent is this summer?

Also, in this hypothetical alternate reality, Brown would be so offended by the Celtics offer that he would have left for less years and less money per year.

Right.

How many stars do we have to see force trades for you to understand that it happens?

[beasted]

How many stars do we have to see force trades for you to understand that it happens?

You know that forcing a trade still won't get him a supermax, nor a 5 year deal, right?

[Real Men Wear Green]

You know that forcing a trade still won't get him a supermax, nor a 5 year deal, right?

It would get him in to a new team that he isn't angry with for low-balling him. You appear to think the Celtics are stupid, that they offered Brown what they did for fun. He's one of the leaders of the NBPA. He's not taking less than he's worth. The Celtics did the right thing and won a championship. They know what he's worth to them. You clearly don't. Now why is averaging 23.9ppg in the playoffs as a second option laughable?

[beasted]

It would get him in to a new team that he isn't angry with for low-balling him. You appear to think the Celtics are stupid, that they offered Brown what they did for fun. He's one of the leaders of the NBPA. He's not taking less than he's worth. The Celtics did the right thing and won a championship. They know what he's worth to them. You clearly don't. Now why is averaging 23.9ppg in the playoffs as a second option laughable?

This is a very illogical take that has never happened in league history. But sure, Brown would be a first.

I don't think any 2nd options who've proved they cannot play up to the standard of a first option is worth the supermax. It's nothing personal to Jaylen.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is a very illogical take that has never happened in league history. But sure, Brown would be a first.

I don't think any 2nd options who've proved they cannot play up to the standard of a first option is worth the supermax. It's nothing personal to Jaylen.

So we're not going to answer the question of why 23.9ppg is a laughable postseason? Then I guess asking how 26.9 ppg (22-23 season) is not up to the standard of a first option would be pointless.

No, Jaylen Brown would not be the first player to demand a trade. Have you been posting any attention at all?

[beasted]

So we're not going to answer the question of why 23.9ppg is a laughable postseason? Then I guess asking how 26.9 ppg (22-23 season) is not up to the standard of a first option would be pointless.

No, Jaylen Brown would not be the first player to demand a trade. Have you been posting any attention at all?

23.9 PPG is the lowest career high playoff PPG, and 26.9 PPG is the lowest regular season PPG for any player receiving a 35% of cap supermax. The players who've received a 35% supermax (that were only eligible for 30% otherwise) are Curry, Lillard, Davis, Harden, Giannis, Tatum. Brown is significantly worse than every one of these players and that's not debatable. Agreed?

You are right, and I was wrong. After doing research, Brown would only be the 3rd player eligible for a 5 year supermax since inception to leave and take less. The first 2 were Durant and Kawhi. Point stands that it's still very unlikely.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So the 23.9 is laughable because of 35% instead of 30%? Somehow that just isn't that funny. The Celtics will be keeping the team intact in spite of that 5%. They would be way over the cap either way and if you're worried about the owner's pockets that's very sweet of you but Grousbeck and company bought the team for 360 million and are likely to sell it for 5 billion. Thank you for your concern.

Update: Tillman and Queta have been resigned.

[kawhileonard2]

Thoughts?

Only guys who win multiple league or finals mvp's are.

[Carbine]

Of course he is. You never get anywhere near same value if you trade a guy like Brown.

He just won the two MVPs of the series for the ECF and Finals. He was their best player in the biggest series. That is deserving of the max amount he can be paid. It was obviously the correct decision for a "win now" team like the Celtics were and continue to be for the next few years.

[tpols]

With how much scrubs get paid nowadays I'm fine with paying a player of j Brown's caliber.

[beasted]

With how much scrubs get paid nowadays I'm fine with paying a player of j Brown's caliber.

I can accept this stance. There have been plenty of slightly above mediocre guys breaking banks.

[JISU]

I thought he wasn´t a superstar and he didn´t worth that huge contract.
I was not right
The Ring Justifies everything (is like that Middleton contract)

Sorry J. Brown.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Sam Hauser extended for 4 years (https://share.newsbreak.com/7tz5oqps)

So the short list for potential owners is Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffet. Are there any other possible issues with this deal?
I thought he wasn´t a superstar and he didn´t worth that huge contract.
I was not right
The Ring Justifies everything (is like that Middleton contract)

Sorry J. Brown.

We appreciate the "Come to Jaylen" moment. Your sins are forgiven.