Luka has an argument in my mind as best playoff offensive player ever.

[Carbine]

I don't like Luka at all, the way he cries after every miss to the referees and his laziness of defense at times. He's the player I root against the most, I don't want to see him win anything.

You can't deny this guy's offensive ability when it matters though. Even when he was "off" last series, he still controlled the game. His ability to play the pick and roll is second to none - ever. His iso ability is the best in the league and is up there with anyone all time now that the 3 ball is falling the way it is this year.

There isn't really an answer for this guy. He brings the ball up so it's very hard to take the ball out of his hands, almost impossible. You can't blitz him on pick and roll because he's likely the best passers at defeating that strategy. You're asking for big trouble switching anyone not his size on him because he will bully them (like he does Ant) or gets to his spot to easily with a big on him.

I've been hard on him not being able to win due to his play style but they said the same thing about shooting too many 3s and now look.....

[RRR3]

This board is so reactionary lmao

[Carbine]

He has enough of a playoff history that it's not reactionary. There's only two people that average 31ppg or more in their playoff careers and it's him and MJ. He's also a better passer than MJ.

[RRR3]

He has enough of a playoff history that it's not reactionary. There's only two people that average 31ppg or more in their playoff careers and it's him and MJ. He's also a better passer than MJ.
Why are you comparing raw PPG without adjusting for the scoring environment lmfao. He’s literally basically the exact same player as prime James Harden. Is James Harden the offensive GOAT?

[FultzNationRISE]

I mean no, he really doesnt, because that would be Lebron. But he's probably top 10.

Luka has not exactly been consistent in these playoffs. If Kyrie doesnt step up big every time Luka's struggling in these playoffs, theyre already eliminated and we're not having this conversation.

Luka tends to wind up with his numbers regardless of how well he played in the game. And due to the nature of him essentially being great at getting tough baskets instead of being able to create easy ones, a la Lebron James, he's naturally going to have some inconsistency. Luka can catch step-back fire more than most, but it's not gonna happen every game.

He's like Kobe in that his mastery, his skill, his repertoire is through the roof... but it's just never gonna be as EFFECTIVE as a prime Lebron, Shaq, even a Jokic IMO. He doesnt get very many points at the rim and that's really the best way to guarantee consistency.

Again, I'm not saying he's not 'up there' all time. But he doesnt get enough easy baskets to be the best. The numbers themselves mean little these days, and his belie a little bit less consistency than what you get from the absolute elite.

[FultzNationRISE]

Why are you comparing raw PPG without adjusting for the scoring environment lmfao. He’s literally basically the exact same player as prime James Harden. Is James Harden the offensive GOAT?

Well OP did specify playoffs, and they are NOT the same in the playoffs.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's never played in the Finals and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any ppg, total point, or points in a game records so it's fair to say that this topic is insane.

[Carbine]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

I'm just saying. If he ain't the best offensive player, he's #2. His passing ability has a lot to do with it. He's a truly ATG passer - something MJ is not. Nor anyone that's around his caliber of scorer in the playoffs - besides Lebron.

[FultzNationRISE]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

I'm just saying. If he ain't the best offensive player, he's #2. His passing ability has a lot to do with it. He's a truly ATG passer - something MJ is not. Nor anyone that's around his caliber of scorer in the playoffs - besides Lebron.

Youre really taking Luka on offense over Jokic?

I think that's crazy personally, and I have plenty of respect for Luka's ability.

[SATAN]

I don't like Luka at all, the way he cries after every miss to the referees and his laziness of defense at times. He's the player I root against the most, I don't want to see him win anything.

You can't deny this guy's offensive ability when it matters though. Even when he was "off" last series, he still controlled the game. His ability to play the pick and roll is second to none - ever. His iso ability is the best in the league and is up there with anyone all time now that the 3 ball is falling the way it is this year.

There isn't really an answer for this guy. He brings the ball up so it's very hard to take the ball out of his hands, almost impossible. You can't blitz him on pick and roll because he's likely the best passers at defeating that strategy. You're asking for big trouble switching anyone not his size on him because he will bully them (like he does Ant) or gets to his spot to easily with a big on him.

I've been hard on him not being able to win due to his play style but they said the same thing about shooting too many 3s and now look.....

:roll:

[Carbine]

They have very different play styles but equally effective at creating open shots for their teammates. Scoring wise I feel like there are answers for Jokic. He has had quite a few reps of looking very uncomfortable (last years run not withstanding) while I never get that feeling for Luka - he's always going to get his shot it's just whether he makes it or not. We can talk about how Luka ball doesn't maximize all stars but Kyrie is doing just fine with him, and it's undeniable that he raises Lively and Gaffords offensive output a lot by his ability to draw the defense and dish it off to them for dunks/easy lay ups.

[Hoon]

They have very different play styles but equally effective at creating open shots for their teammates. Scoring wise I feel like there are answers for Jokic. He has had quite a few reps of looking very uncomfortable (last years run not withstanding) while I never get that feeling for Luka - he's always going to get his shot it's just whether he makes it or not. We can talk about how Luka ball doesn't maximize all stars but Kyrie is doing just fine with him, and it's undeniable that he raises Lively and Gaffords offensive output a lot by his ability to draw the defense and dish it off to them for dunks/easy lay ups.

I get what you’re saying. They do have different styles, but both are great at setting up their teammates for open shots. Jokic can sometimes look uncomfortable, but when he's on, he’s really tough to stop. Luka, on the other hand, always seems to get his shot off no matter what.

[Wardell Curry]

This board is so reactionary lmao

Sports fans are super emotional. I mean it is tapping into tribalism, after all. Dating back to the earliest beginnings of society, when we were all dumb apes. This is why all of the morning shows are complete garbage soap operate level entertainment.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree. You have that completely backwards.

[Kblaze8855]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

I'm just saying. If he ain't the best offensive player, he's #2. His passing ability has a lot to do with it. He's a truly ATG passer - something MJ is not. Nor anyone that's around his caliber of scorer in the playoffs - besides Lebron.

He’s an unusually good passer at his size but there are too many point guards to have him as all time great without stretching the list to such an extent it loses all significance.

People always do that with big guys who pass well and ignore that what they do wouldn’t be terrible celebrated from a small guard.

People might argue Magic, Kidd, and Nash types….ok.

But there’s still Stockton, Paul, Mark Jackson, Isiah Thomas….

People might not even get to Rondo…Cousy gets a token mention.

And people still wanna throw Lebron in there and of course Jokic.

Luka is a great passer but he’s not some all time short list guy.

Hes on the short list of wings and big points like Lebron and Penny. As in really really nice. But you gotta stretch the goat list more than usual to fit everyone.

A big wing passes like Rod Strickland he gets goat passer talk. Rod Strickland doesn’t come up because he’s a point guard it’s expected from. It’s like calling a great rim protecting tweener, a goat caliber help defender and ignoring that 30 centers did it we just don’t give full credit because it’s expected.

I don’t have an issue with the praise…I’m just saying…a 6’8” Marbury would get that talk a lot more than a 6’2” one.

[Carbine]

He’s an unusually good passer at his size but there are too many point guards to have him as all time great without stretching the list to such an extent it loses all significance.

People always do that with big guys who pass well and ignore that what they do wouldn’t be terrible celebrated from a small guard.

People might argue Magic, Kidd, and Nash types….ok.

But there’s still Stockton, Paul, Mark Jackson, Isiah Thomas….

People might not even get to Rondo…Cousy gets a token mention.

And people still wanna throw Lebron in there and of course Jokic.

Luka is a great passer but he’s not some all time short list guy.

Hes on the short list of wings and big points like Lebron and Penny. As in really really nice. But you gotta stretch the goat list more than usual to fit everyone.

A big wing passes like Rod Strickland he gets goat passer talk. Rod Strickland doesn’t come up because he’s a point guard it’s expected from.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of effectiveness over flashy elbow passes. Was White Chocolate a better highlight worthy passer? Of course. He isn't a better passer of the basketball in the sense of effective offensive basketball. His height plays a part in his effectiveness as a passer, he can see and pass over defenders in traffic or on blitzes that other smaller guards cannot do as consistenly.

He absolutely is an ATG passer.

[Manny98]

He's incredible but he's still got work to do to be put up there with the LeBron and MJs of the world

[Kblaze8855]

I'm looking at it from the perspective of effectiveness over flashy elbow passes. Was White Chocolate a better highlight worthy passer? Of course. He isn't a better passer of the basketball in the sense of effective offensive basketball. His height plays a part in his effectiveness as a passer, he can see and pass over defenders in traffic or on blitzes that other smaller guards cannot do as consistenly.

He absolutely is an ATG passer.

Did I list anyone there for ineffective flash? Did you see Jason Williams or Pistol Pete? The people I listed won 20+ rings and ran several all time elite offenses built on their playmaking. Sure a lot today are statistically more efficient but I don’t need to tell you that isn’t a function of smarter point guard play.

Luka is a really good passer. And his effectiveness is aided tremendously by his scoring and this being a pick your poison, spacing, cutting, dunker position, heliocentric offense watching to see how to react to the dribbler league.

But he and Harden are closer to the top wing playmakers than the best ever. Any big wing who passes like Mark Price gets all time status. But Mark Price doesn’t because it’s expected.

Luka is a great passer. I think that’s enough.

[Carbine]

Ask yourself this, who's a more impactful passer than Luka right now?

Jokic? Ok

Haliburton? I don't see that

Lebron I could say is very very similar. I've heard a million times over the last 20 years that Lebron is an ATG passer.

CP3 in his prime? Ok, maybe.

So he's at worst 5th since players drafted from 2000 onwards. That requires me to put you in the ATG category based off that alone.

[FultzNationRISE]

He's incredible but he's still got work to do to be put up there with the LeBron and MJs of the world

Well I can give him the nod over MJ, he's made a playoff career of scoring on the likes of Kawhi, Toody, Lu Dort, McDaniels, all sorts of celebrated defensive players.

I shudder to think what he would have done to Craig Ehlo and John Starks.

Unfortunately the best defensive wing when MJ played was also MJ's own teammate.

Further, Luka has had to shoot from the men's three point line over the course of his whole career. MJ got a little bit of a break in that regard.

Passing LeKING on the other hand... pretty doubtful.

[SATAN]

The stat padding is working. Well done, Luka.

[FultzNationRISE]

Remember, Michael NEEDED Scottie.

Lebron only needs a ball....

[Kblaze8855]

Some things you simply can’t remove from the league being played in. I suspect Luka has slashing numbers to rival any number of all time elite slashers. Removing lane clogging bigs and keeping help D focused on shooters for the half a breath that makes all the difference changes the whole equation. Similar thing with passing.

Hes not being asked to run anything reminiscent of a traditional playmakers offense.

They give guys like he and Harden a few years ago the ball to do the same thing over and over and over in a loose structure designed to let them score or find whoever is left open when you help.

It’s certainly effective. But it requires elite scoring ability to make the defense over compensate. It’s attacking based playmaking. Definitely effective and impressive. But the key to it working is being a deadly scoring option.

Hes not making something from nothing against defenses that know he’s gonna pass. Hes like a QB with a great run game and play action success off of that. Or more fairly like a great running QB who gets the D looking at him for a half second every snap.

The efficient passing that can result shouldn’t be discredited because it comes from playing football well. But the key is something other than the actual pass. Kind of like when Lamar Jackson starts dotting teams up. The passes are good, but he’s not necessarily as accurate as those games suggest.

Its a total package.

Luka is a total offensive package but that package is built off his scoring. Hes a scorer who can make plays not a Nash type running the show getting people looks while the other team is trying to prevent it.

The other team is trying to keep him from scoring 50 and the only way to do it involves ample open shooters and opportunities for cuts.

Its effective. But it isn’t based on his passing talent first.

Of course he has passing talent, but his scoring is what makes his passing so devastating.

As a wing, he’s up there around the area of Penny, Manu, and LeBron. But I wouldn’t say either one of them is Steve Nash or Magic Johnson either.

Granted…people are happy to act like Lebron is doing something point guards don’t do all the time as well.

[ImKobe]

He's never played in the Finals and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any ppg, total point, or points in a game records so it's fair to say that this topic is insane.

I mean it's not that insane if we're talking consistency in the POs in general. He's on pace to have his 7th series with at least 29 ppg, 7 rpg and 5 apg. He's currently on his 8th Playoff series. He's only had one series where he didn't average at least 29 a game and that was the OKC one where he still averaged 25/11/9 on 56.6%TS, and that's arguably the worst Playoff series of his career.

So if we're talking consistency as far as production goes, he's up there with the best.

[John8204]

I mean it's not that insane if we're talking consistency in the POs in general. He's on pace to have his 7th series with at least 29 ppg, 7 rpg and 5 apg. He's currently on his 8th Playoff series. He's only had one series where he didn't average at least 29 a game and that was the OKC one where he still averaged 25/11/9 on 56.6%TS, and that's arguably the worst Playoff series of his career.

So if we're talking consistency as far as production goes, he's up there with the best.

Yeah he's up there but he's not at the same level as Jordan, West, and Barry those guys averaged 40PPG. Luka could be the best of his generation but all-time...I would give it to Jerry West who had a run basically every year he played and he did it without a 3 point line.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I mean it's not that insane if we're talking consistency in the POs in general. He's on pace to have his 7th series with at least 29 ppg, 7 rpg and 5 apg. He's currently on his 8th Playoff series. He's only had one series where he didn't average at least 29 a game and that was the OKC one where he still averaged 25/11/9 on 56.6%TS, and that's arguably the worst Playoff series of his career.

So if we're talking consistency as far as production goes, he's up there with the best.
I'm not going to engage in this argument until someone points out what records he's set.

[ImKobe]

I'm not going to engage in this argument until someone points out what records he's set.

It's not about what he's achieved thus far at 25 years old, but what his trajectory is. He had the most points ever in a Playoff debut (42), he's already top 10 in triple-doubles in the POs and could finish as high as 4th all-time after this run. Some of the Lebron stuff is unattainable because of Lebron's unique circumstance (playing in the worst Conference ever for 15 years), but in terms of his averages he's going to be up there with the best.


It's safe to say a guy who's averaging 31/9/8 for his Playoffs career is going to be on the short list of greatest Playoff performers ever. He's not even at his peak yet.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's not about what he's achieved thus far at 25 years old. I'm not going to say a guy is better than Jordan who has done nothing to show it. That's stupid. The end.

[RRR3]

Some things you simply can’t remove from the league being played in. I suspect Luka has slashing numbers to rival any number of all time elite slashers. Removing lane clogging bigs and keeping help D focused on shooters for the half a breath that makes all the difference changes the whole equation. Similar thing with passing.

Hes not being asked to run anything reminiscent of a traditional playmakers offense.

They give guys like he and Harden a few years ago the ball to do the same thing over and over and over in a loose structure designed to let them score or find whoever is left open when you help.

It’s certainly effective. But it requires elite scoring ability to make the defense over compensate. It’s attacking based playmaking. Definitely effective and impressive. But the key to it working is being a deadly scoring option.

Hes not making something from nothing against defenses that know he’s gonna pass. Hes like a QB with a great run game and play action success off of that. Or more fairly like a great running QB who gets the D looking at him for a half second every snap.

The efficient passing that can result shouldn’t be discredited because it comes from playing football well. But the key is something other than the actual pass. Kind of like when Lamar Jackson starts dotting teams up. The passes are good, but he’s not necessarily as accurate as those games suggest.

Its a total package.

Luka is a total offensive package but that package is built off his scoring. Hes a scorer who can make plays not a Nash type running the show getting people looks while the other team is trying to prevent it.

The other team is trying to keep him from scoring 50 and the only way to do it involves ample open shooters and opportunities for cuts.

Its effective. But it isn’t based on his passing talent first.

Of course he has passing talent, but his scoring is what makes his passing so devastating.

As a wing, he’s up there around the area of Penny, Manu, and LeBron. But I wouldn’t say either one of them is Steve Nash or Magic Johnson either.

Granted…people are happy to act like Lebron is doing something point guards don’t do all the time as well.
Why are you listing Penny as a wing he was a point.

[Kblaze8855]

Because I watched him play with Scott Skiles, Darrell Armstrong and Jason Kidd. He had the skills of a point guard, but he didn’t always play point guard. Much like Magic Johnson actually. He was a basketball player capable of being a full time pure point…but he wasn’t always tasked with it. Simpler to just call him a wing the way we do now.

[ImKobe]

I'm not going to say a guy is better than Jordan who has done nothing to show it. That's stupid. The end.

Nothing is going too far lol. Skill-wise he's shown plenty, enough that you could make an argument for him being the most skilled offensive player ever when you look at his overall scoring + passing ability. He's the only player in NBA history to put up 33+ ppg 9+ reb 9+ ast for a season.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Nothing is going too far lol. Skill-wise he's shown plenty, enough that you could make an argument for him being the most skilled offensive player ever when you look at his overall scoring + passing ability. He's the only player in NBA history to put up 33+ ppg 9+ reb 9+ ast for a season.
These are not playoff statistics. In the playoffs he's averaging 28 points and 9 assists. I don't even get why OP made this stupid thread or why you want to go along with this idiocy but calling a guy that has set no records and won no championship the greatest playoff performer ever is stupid.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hotel Embiid averaged 35. 6 and 11 this season. Does that make him the greatest playoffs player ever too?

[3ba11]

Jordan averaged 36/7/8 for the 91-93' Finals and 34/7/7 for the 91-93' Playoffs, and 35/7/7 for the 85-93' Playoffs.

41/9/6 in the 93' Finals with only a 90 pace and facing a top 10 defensive team.

All this with great shooting efficiency (including threes) and great efficiency per possession (low turnovers)

Oh, and all this while WINNING at a goat level.

[Hey Yo]

Jordan averaged 36/7/8 for the 91-93' Finals and 34/7/7 for the 91-93' Playoffs, and 35/7/7 for the 85-93' Playoffs.

41/9/6 in the 93' Finals with only a 90 pace and facing a top 10 defensive team.

All this with great shooting efficiency (including threes) and great efficiency per possession (low turnovers)

Oh, and all this while WINNING at a goat level.
On 33fga per game. Not hard to lead your team in scoring when you're taking 90% of the FGA while your sidekick leads in rebounds, assists, blocks and steals.

:durantunimpressed:

[warriorfan]

Why are you comparing raw PPG without adjusting for the scoring environment lmfao. He’s literally basically the exact same player as prime James Harden. Is James Harden the offensive GOAT?
gj solidifying jordan’s case as goat

dumb ass baby raper looking mother ****er :roll:

[FKAri]

Definitely not. He's been hurt to start this post season and as a result he's looked kinda OK compared to his usual post season self. Even though his 2024 regular season was much better than his past regular seasons. It's better to make this position specific and ask if he's been offensively better than Magic or Steph.

[ImKobe]

These are not playoff statistics. In the playoffs he's averaging 28 points and 9 assists. I don't even get why OP made this stupid thread or why you want to go along with this idiocy but calling a guy that has set no records and won no championship the greatest playoff performer ever is stupid.

He averages 31/9/8 for his Playoff career and we're at a sample size of 42 games at this point.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He averages 31/9/8 for his Playoff career and we're at a sample size of 42 games at this point. Jordan has multiple playoffs over 34ppg and 6 Finals MVP awards. I don't know why you people are buying into this crap but it's not the first time you've posted foolishness. Whatever.

[Im Still Ballin]

The Fat Guy is definitely a talent. Best offensive player ever? I don't know. It's hard to go past MJ! He could do everything Luka can - and more!

[ImKobe]

Jordan has multiple playoffs over 34ppg and 6 Finals MVP awards. I don't know why you people are buying into this crap but it's not the first time you've posted foolishness. Whatever.

It has nothing to do with being the greatest or the most accomplished player. OP did not say that. He just said Doncic might be the best offensive player he's ever seen in the POs. It's understandable why someone could have that opinion when you look at Luka's consistency in the POs and how skilled he is offensively.

[warriorfan]

Jordan has multiple playoffs over 34ppg and 6 Finals MVP awards. I don't know why you people are buying into this crap but it's not the first time you've posted foolishness. Whatever.

you made a straw man argument while only recognizing points per game


this level of low iq is downright impressive. damn, you are one stupid mother ****er

[90sgoat]

Not yet, but he has the potential to be, yes even beat out MJ.

MJ was phenomenal sure, but do I say he is better in every way offensively than Bird? No, of course not. Bird could shoot 3s, could pass at a GOAT level.

Luka is only 25 and if people think he'll be resting on his ring (if he gets one), then they must have missed he was a Finals MVP in Euroleague too and still kept on working his game.

Every off season Luka has improved, first the atrocious defending from his rookie season, then he added a post game, then he added the midrange game, then he fixed his freethrow shooting, then he became a 40% shooter from deep, then he became a good defender.

What's next for Luka? Conditioning? A hook shot? Catch and shoot?

The point is, Luka is already the best player in the league, but he will keep getting better. If he becomes an elite catch and shoot guy, then even 3ball will have to concede.

[BarberSchool]

Next for Luka is losing body fat and improving his conditioning in general, so he can not take so many defensive possessions off, without negatively effecting his offensive production.

As far as offense itself, what’s next I think for Luka is a willingness to immediately and decisively post-up early and often. If the guy guarding him weighs less than 220, Luka should immediately decide to punish them in the post, fu@k a long setup iso, or a PNP/PNR.

Dude highest efficiency by far against Dort came in post-ups. If he can move Dort easily and get quality looks inside 10ft, imagine what he does to every other guard with less strength than Dort ….. it collapses the defense, opens up so much more variety of cutting angles and open 3 spots, on top of all the existing exploitables his PNR play already creates. Passes from deep post position will give Dallas some nuggets cutting angles.

I think a pivot/fake heavy post up scoring game, that is full of COUNTERS, counters in both scoring and PASSING, is the real next move for him, strategically.

Imagine Luka:

backing down into deep position, pivots and pivots again for a very high % turnaround fadeaway from 8-9ft, which draws in extra sagging defenders who can’t help but ball watch, and he now has at least 2 viable passing options around the arc, in addition to his own short, high % fadeaway.

Now imagine that exact same scenario, where his defender bites on the pump fake of the turnaround, and Luka uses his long heavy pivot AGAIN to swing under and threaten to go up for an even easier layup, which draws the guy defending Livley or Gafford to shift his weight toward Luka….

…. And this is what I envision he will become a master at in the next few years:

CREATING LOBS FROM THE POST

especially after his shooters have hit a few and their defenders are stuck to them like glue.

[BarberSchool]

Another thing I expect to become even more polished and frequent over the next few years, with even greater chemistry and tighter, more decisive timing for an additional 1/4 step advantage :

When Luka’s step back is defended well, and he gives it up quick and cuts immediately, he has created some no dribble give and go scoring threats in the paint, THAT BECOME LOBS. It’s one of the more beautiful 3-pass quick hitting no dribble combos in the game. So fluid and gorgeous.

[BarberSchool]

Very similar to these, but out of his defended step back, FREQUENTLY:


https://youtube.com/shorts/dJBwCNxPkpw


https://youtube.com/shorts/RUFKiFJrGM4

Embedded shorts don’t work anymore ???

[Mask the Embiid]

https://youtu.be/Gw3FSvFU950

[Carbine]

Hotel Embiid averaged 35. 6 and 11 this season. Does that make him the greatest playoffs player ever too?

Are you really this dumb? I didn't think you were but holy smokes, awful take.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Are you really this dumb? I didn't think you were but holy smokes, awful take. A the author of this thread you've pretty much invalidated your own opinion. FYI ImKobe made the stupid argument that Doncic regular season numbers proved his Playoff grreatness so I pointed out that Embiid had even better averages this year. Does that prove his greatness too? Read your own crap thread.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It has nothing to do with being the greatest d...I see we're no longer even trying to make sense. Ok.

[Axe]

It's not about what he's achieved thus far at 25 years old, but what his trajectory is. He had the most points ever in a Playoff debut (42), he's already top 10 in triple-doubles in the POs and could finish as high as 4th all-time after this run. Some of the Lebron stuff is unattainable because of Lebron's unique circumstance (playing in the worst Conference ever for 15 years), but in terms of his averages he's going to be up there with the best.


It's safe to say a guy who's averaging 31/9/8 for his Playoffs career is going to be on the short list of greatest Playoff performers ever. He's not even at his peak yet.
It's a shame that luka could pretty much end up garnering his finals mvp first than your big hero AD. :ohwell:

[90sgoat]

Next for Luka is losing body fat and improving his conditioning in general, so he can not take so many defensive possessions off, without negatively effecting his offensive production.

As far as offense itself, what’s next I think for Luka is a willingness to immediately and decisively post-up early and often.

Back when I cared, before his several rings, I always thought that Lebron was missing out of being a GOAT, because he refused to learn and play the post.

Lebron did play the post more in Miami and was effective, but he never really committed to it like Charles Barkley did.

I've always seen Lebron as the next evolution of the Charles Barkley power forward, all the athleticism and power, but a guard like skillset in passing and dribbling.

I mean, if Barkley actually had been able to hit the 3 pointer, he'd also be in the top 10 discussion.

Luka has more of a game, but yes, he needs to be conditioned enough to bring it to the post over and over.

[ImKobe]

...I see we're no longer even trying to make sense. Ok.

You're just strawmanning the hell out of this thread lol. OP said nothing about stats or RS production or even PO production. He's just talking about Luka's game and what he's seen from him in the POs thus far. Luka's insane consistency in both RS & POs is proof of him being a great offensive player. I had to point out the RS he just had to add onto why I think he's one of the best offensive players ever. Apparently RS doesn't count at all though. You're just hating at this point.

And yes, Embiid is one of the greatest offensive players ever as a 7-1 player who can score at an elite level from anywhere on the court, apparently you don't think so.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You're just strawmanning the hell out of this thread lol. OP said nothing about stats or RS production or even PO production. He's just talking about Luka's game and what he's seen from him in the POs thus far. Luka's insane consistency in both RS & POs is proof of him being a great offensive player. I had to point out the RS he just had to add onto why I think he's one of the best offensive players ever. Apparently RS doesn't count at all though. You're just hating at this point.

And yes, Embiid is one of the greatest offensive players ever as a 7-1 player who can score at an elite level from anywhere on the court, apparently you don't think so. You are the one that brought up Doncic regular season numbers then you post this and add in the phrase "straw man" as if warriorfan had any idea what he was talking about. Embiid is a great scorer. And he has most definitely had not shown himself to be a great postseason scorer regardless of his great regular season numbers. Since you want to talk "straw man" did I ever say Doncic isn't a great scorer? You are posting bs and then arguing with the voices in your head. This thread isn't just saying Doncic is great, this thread is saying he's the greatest playoff scorer ever and that means the standard has to be high. A standard that Doncic just doesn't meet. No one playing in the game right now does. If you want to say he's a greater scorer than Kobe Bryant I would maybe point at the wins Bryant had led his team to but Doncic would win on average stats. But Jordan? Nope.

[ImKobe]

You are the one that brought up Doncic regular season numbers then you post this and add in the phrase "straw man" as if warriorfan had any idea what he was talking about. Embiid is a great scorer. And he has most definitely had not shown himself to be a great postseason scorer regardless of his great regular season numbers. Since you want to talk "straw man" did I ever say Doncic isn't a great scorer? You are posting bs and then arguing with the voices in your head. This thread isn't just saying Doncic is great, this thread is saying he's the greatest playoff scorer ever and that means the standard has to be high. A standard that Doncic just doesn't meet. No one playing in the game right now does. If you want to say he's a greater scorer than Kobe Bryant I would maybe point at the wins Bryant had led his team to but Doncic would win on average stats. But Jordan? Nope.

You're saying he has no argument as perhaps the best offensive player OP personally has seen in the POs because he doesn't have Jordan's career accomplishments. No one argued him being the greatest player or the most accomplished player ever so that has nothing to do with it.

You just only made it about scoring btw, passing is a vital part of the offense and Luka definitely has Jordan beat in that regard. Of course to me he's not a better scorer than either MJ or Kobe (at least not yet), but the combination of his scoring + passing ability is second to none as far as his overall skillset goes. Do I think he's the best offensive player ever? No. Do I think you can make an argument for it based on his skill and the consistent level of play that he's shown in both RS & Playoffs? Yes.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You're saying he has no argument as perhaps the best offensive player OP personally has seen in the POs because he doesn't have Jordan's career accomplishments. No one argued him being the greatest player or the most accomplished player ever so that has nothing to do with it. At the risk of coming close to "straw man" I didn't read OP say this was just about the players he's seen. If it is and he never watched Jordan I sincerely apologize for replying to this stupid and irrelevant thread. But if that is not the case,


You just only made it about scoring btw, passing is a vital part of the offense and Luka definitely has Jordan beat in that regard. Of course to me he's not a better scorer than either MJ or Kobe (at least not yet), but the combination of his scoring + passing ability is second to none as far as his overall skillset goes. Do I think he's the best offensive player ever? No. Do I think you can make an argument for it based on his skill and the consistent level of play that he's shown in both RS & Playoffs? Yes.So, to you, he is not the best offensive player... but you want to argue that he is the best offensive player?

I sincerely apologize for replying...

[ImKobe]

At the risk of coming close to "straw man" I didn't read OP say this was just about the players he's seen. If it is and he never watched Jordan I sincerely apologize for replying to this stupid and irrelevant thread. But if that is not the case,

So, to you, he is not the best offensive player... but you want to argue that he is the best offensive player?

I sincerely apologize for replying...

I mean it's his fking opinion, man. Luka is good enough to where an argument can be made for him based on how well he's performed in both RS & Playoffs so far. He's still far from being a GOAT-level player or the best Playoff performer ever because he's yet to accomplish shit, but at the same time if you're just watching the games I could see why someone would think he's that good as a player.

Larry Bird literally called MJ the greatest player he's ever seen after Jordan put up 63 points in a loss in 1986, and Jordan at that point in his career had won 1 whole game in his entire Playoff career.

[Carbine]

I mean it's his fking opinion, man. Luka is good enough to where an argument can be made for him based on how well he's performed in both RS & Playoffs so far. He's still far from being a GOAT-level player or the best Playoff performer ever because he's yet to accomplish shit, but at the same time if you're just watching the games I could see why someone would think he's that good as a player.

Larry Bird literally called MJ the greatest player he's ever seen after Jordan put up 63 points in a loss in 1986, and Jordan at that point in his career had won 1 whole game in his entire Playoff career.

Bingo.