Kyrie is not why the Mavs are good

[StrongLurk]

The Mavs are good because they acquired Gafford/PJ Washington at the deadline and got a steal by drafting Lively. All three of those guys work in the Mavs system and SORELY fixed the weaknesses of the Mavs team that existed last year.

Yes, obviously Kyrie being healthy come playoff time is important but he is not the "needle mover" for this team. Without those three players, Luka and Kyrie would definitely not be in the finals.

Mavs went 24-9 after those trades which is an elite win-pace. They are clearly much better now than a typical "5 seed" or "13th-ranked SRS" team.

[tpols]

Captain obvious strikes again.

Kyrie has been great but yea... it is a team game.

If you put Michael Jordan and Larry Bird on the same team with a bunch of 5'8 chubby dudes from the YMCA they'd get slaughtered by any NBA team. Even lotto teams.

[jayfan]

The Mavs are good because they acquired Gafford/PJ Washington at the deadline and got a steal by drafting Lively. All three of those guys work in the Mavs system and SORELY fixed the weaknesses of the Mavs team that existed last year.

Yes, obviously Kyrie being healthy come playoff time is important but he is not the "needle mover" for this team. Without those three players, Luka and Kyrie would definitely not be in the finals.

Mavs went 24-9 after those trades which is an elite win-pace. They are clearly much better now than a typical "5 seed" or "13th-ranked SRS" team.

Gafford and Lively are what make this edition of the Mavs different from all preceding editions of the Mavs that were never a real threat to anybody.

That being said, Kyrie has been fantastic. And I've railed on Kyrie for most of his career. The way he's playing now is as big a reason as any why they're in the Finals.


.

[NBAGOAT]

Disagree he feels like the best no2 in the league rn besides Booker but that team is flawed and Durant isn’t Luka. Mavs are capped offensively with Luka and an average 2nd guy and not a finals contender. Yea the moves were huge for their defense but Luka and Kyrie are the offense

[Patrick Chewing]

The question should be, would this team be as good, worse, or better if Jalen Brunson was still running point?

[tpols]

Disagree he feels like the best no2 in the league rn besides Booker but that team is flawed and Durant isn’t Luka. Mavs are capped offensively with Luka and an average 2nd guy and not a finals contender. Yea the moves were huge for their defense but Luka and Kyrie are the offense

Booker is trash on defense. And super soft. Kyrie actually locks in there. And he's a way better passer too. It's been a lob fest to Gafford and Lively not only from Luka but Irving as well.

[SouBeachTalents]

The question should be, would this team be as good, worse, or better if Jalen Brunson was still running point?
Honestly, I think the Mavs could still make the Finals with Brunson in Kyrie's place. A more interesting hypothetical is Kyrie in Brunson's place. How do you think the Knicks do in that scenario?

[tontoz]

The Mavs are good because they acquired Gafford/PJ Washington at the deadline and got a steal by drafting Lively. All three of those guys work in the Mavs system and SORELY fixed the weaknesses of the Mavs team that existed last year.

Yes, obviously Kyrie being healthy come playoff time is important but he is not the "needle mover" for this team. Without those three players, Luka and Kyrie would definitely not be in the finals.

Mavs went 24-9 after those trades which is an elite win-pace. They are clearly much better now than a typical "5 seed" or "13th-ranked SRS" team.


Kyrie was a big reason they finished 24-9. He was out a lot earlier in the season. From Feb 5 Kyrie played all the games except the last two.

PJ wasn't any good during that stretch, averaging 12/6 with a TS of 52%.

[tpols]

The question should be, would this team be as good, worse, or better if Jalen Brunson was still running point?

He had Brunson and they lost in the western conference finals. And is about to win a championship with Kyrie. But yea. The difference is PJ, Lively, Gafford, DJJ vs Dwight Powell, Kleber, and Hardaway. Role players can be the distinction between winning or losing. Especially defensively. Brunson and Kyrie are both immense guard talents.

[NBAGOAT]

Booker is trash on defense. And super soft. Kyrie actually locks in there. And he's a way better passer too. It's been a lob fest to Gafford and Lively not only from Luka but Irving as well.

Sure but he’s still a monster 3 level scorer who improved his playmaking this year. I can easily say he was the top guy over Durant honestly and I don’t imagine you take Kyrie over kd

[tpols]

Sure but he’s still a monster 3 level scorer who improved his playmaking this year. I can easily say he was the top guy over Durant honestly and I don’t imagine you take Kyrie over kd

This year I actually would take Kyrie over Durant. KD at least recently has been a defensive liability, where as Kyrie is busting his ass on defense. And Durant has never been a good passer either. I don't believe Dallas would be better with KD and PJ Washington on the bench than Kyrie.

[ImKobe]

They wouldn't be in the Finals without Kyrie.

[StrongLurk]

Disagree he feels like the best no2 in the league rn besides Booker but that team is flawed and Durant isn’t Luka. Mavs are capped offensively with Luka and an average 2nd guy and not a finals contender. Yea the moves were huge for their defense but Luka and Kyrie are the offense

Kyrie is not even close to the best number 2 in the league :roll:

[StrongLurk]

They wouldn't be in the Finals without Kyrie.

That's a silly comment. What team in the West would be in the finals right now with their second best player not playing any games? Kyrie is great but he does not fill the weaknesses of the team like the trio of PJ, Lively, and Gafford.

[NBAGOAT]

Kyrie is not even close to the best number 2 in the league :roll:

tbf I forgot about lebron/ad. still name the other better ones besides kd/booker. I like george but i'm taking kyrie in playoffs. Jaylen's playmaking too weak for me. Dame had a down year. There arent many other options teams are really good but the stars are spread around

[AlternativeAcc.]

They wouldn't be in the Finals without Kyrie.

Kyrie had 16ppg on 53% ts vs. OKC which was their worst matchup and toughest series.

You can replace kyrie with quite a few 2nd options and still probably get similar results.

[ImKobe]

That's a silly comment. What team in the West would be in the finals right now with their second best player not playing any games? Kyrie is great but he does not fill the weaknesses of the team like the trio of PJ, Lively, and Gafford.

He had the 3rd best Net Rating on the team in the RS and has the best Net Rating by far on the team in the Playoffs. He carried them in spots when Luka was out w/ an injury in the RS which helped them get the 5 seed. They were worse on both O & D with him on the bench in the RS.


Kyrie had 16ppg on 53% ts vs. OKC which was their worst matchup and toughest series.

You can replace kyrie with quite a few 2nd options and still probably get similar results.

He had two games where he barely shot the ball but had 9 & 11 assists in those, hence the low PPG. Wasn't a great series by his standards in terms of his usual averages & efficiency but their role players were on fire and he didn't go into hero mode to disrupt their rhythm, hit some big shots in those 4th quarters too.

Clippers took them to 6 games and he was the best player in that series (27/6/5 65%TS), if he wasn't as good as he was vs. Clippers they go 7 games or maybe even lose that one. He outplayed Ant Man in the WCF after Ant Man said he'd be guarding Kyrie in that series lol, him opening that series up with that 1st half in G1 like he did set the tone for that whole series.

[King Baron]

Luka is why they're good.

[StrongLurk]

He had the 3rd best Net Rating on the team in the RS and has the best Net Rating by far on the team in the Playoffs. He carried them in spots when Luka was out w/ an injury in the RS which helped them get the 5 seed. They were worse on both O & D with him on the bench in the RS.

Net rating for individual players doesn't mean much, especially on a short sample size like 3 rounds of playoff games.

Net rating has Luka as 6th on the Mavs team in the playoffs. Does anyone think he's the Mavs 6th best player? Even looking at that, Lively actually has the highest net rating by a long shot at 13.4.

Hell, Dante Exum led the Mavs in net rating for the regular season and he's like their 8th man :lol.

It's obvious PJ Washington, Lively, and Gafford have made the Mavs O and D so much better and more dynamic. Again Kyrie is great, but he is like the 3rd reason why the Mavs are in the finals. I do think he will show up big in the finals though and hopefully this is where he will mostly prove his worth.

[ImKobe]

Net rating for individual players doesn't mean much, especially on a short sample size like 3 rounds of playoff games.

Net rating has Luka as 6th on the Mavs team in the playoffs. Does anyone think he's the Mavs 6th best player? Even looking at that, Lively actually has the highest net rating by a long shot at 13.4.

Hell, Dante Exum led the Mavs in net rating for the regular season and he's like their 8th man :lol.

It's obvious PJ Washington, Lively, and Gafford have made the Mavs O and D so much better and more dynamic. Again Kyrie is great, but he is like the 3rd reason why the Mavs are in the finals. I do think he will show up big in the finals though and hopefully this is where he will mostly prove his worth.

Like I said, he had the 3rd best net rating among key rotation guys in the RS behind Luka & PJ. I didn't count Exum because he's on the bench most of the time & they haven't even used him much in these POs.

If Kyrie didn't do what he did in the 1st rd they'd have been eliminated by the Clippers yet again, and people would have been clowning Luka & making Harden comparisons.

Kyrie's basically showed up every single time that they've needed him to this RS & Playoffs. He's had his share of bad games but he's been at his best in the most critical moments thus far. It's lame as **** to be hating on him right now when he just dropped 36 in a close-out game on the road.

[StrongLurk]

Like I said, he had the 3rd best net rating among key rotation guys in the RS behind Luka & PJ. I didn't count Exum because he's on the bench most of the time & they haven't even used him much in these POs.

If Kyrie didn't do what he did in the 1st rd they'd have been eliminated by the Clippers yet again, and people would have been clowning Luka & making Harden comparisons.

Kyrie's basically showed up every single time that they've needed him to this RS & Playoffs. He's had his share of bad games but he's been at his best in the most critical moments thus far. It's lame as **** to be hating on him right now when he just dropped 36 in a close-out game on the road.

Who is hating on Kyrie? Not me. Also you didn't disprove anything that I said about net rating. It's far better applied as a team stat, not as an individual stat.

Some people are acting like Kyrie is suddenly this evolved/matured player when he's the same player on the court the he has always been. Mavs couldn't make the playoffs last year because they had massive weaknesses that were shored up by other players. I literally said Kyrie is the Mavs second best player, but he is not the reason why the Mavs are suddenly in the finals like some people are acting :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

He had two games where he barely shot the ball but had 9 & 11 assists in those, hence the low PPG. Wasn't a great series by his standards in terms of his usual averages & efficiency but their role players were on fire and he didn't go into hero mode to disrupt their rhythm, hit some big shots in those 4th quarters too.

Clippers took them to 6 games and he was the best player in that series (27/6/5 65%TS), if he wasn't as good as he was vs. Clippers they go 7 games or maybe even lose that one. He outplayed Ant Man in the WCF after Ant Man said he'd be guarding Kyrie in that series lol, him opening that series up with that 1st half in G1 like he did set the tone for that whole series.

That's fair enough, he's been stellar in the two other series. I actually like Kyrie a lot when he's dedicated to just playing basketball and not trying to be some woke figurehead off the court.

Still, I think Dame, Booker, Sabonis, Bane, Brown, and maybe a couple other guys could yield similar results as 2nd option for Dallas. Luka is the driver of this team. He's on a top 10 like trajectory as a player. Hard for me to sit here and praise Kyrie as if he's an unreplaceable 2nd option.

[90sgoat]

Kyrie is why they're a championship favorite now, but you're right that PJ and Gafford are why they changed their season around.

They always just needed some better post defender and more rebounding.

[ImKobe]

Who is hating on Kyrie? Not me. Also you didn't disprove anything that I said about net rating. It's far better applied as a team stat, not as an individual stat.

Some people are acting like Kyrie is suddenly this evolved/matured player when he's the same player on the court the he has always been. Mavs couldn't make the playoffs last year because they had massive weaknesses that were shored up by other players. I literally said Kyrie is the Mavs second best player, but he is not the reason why the Mavs are suddenly in the finals like some people are acting :lol

Sounds like hating to me. Acting like he hasn't developed at all as a player & leader is just being dishonest IMO. He admitted he wanted to be the man when he forced his way out of Cleveland, he no longer has that mindset from what I've seen.

He had games in these POs where he didn't look to shoot and was more of a decoy/playmaker which helped them win some games and in some games he's taken over early in the 1st half and then was willing to let Luka cook in the 2nd half. He's been huge in spots where Luka's struggled on offense.

If this was just Luka + role players, the Mavs wouldn't be in the Finals right now. He's playing hurt and hasn't been as consistent as a scorer as he has in years past, and if he was the only good ballhandler on the team the opposing teams would just force the ball out of his hands and they'd struggle to create offense vs. good defenses.

As good as some of these role players are they do not have the skillset to handle the ball & help run the offense like Kyrie does.

[ShawkFactory]

He had the 3rd best Net Rating on the team in the RS and has the best Net Rating by far on the team in the Playoffs. He carried them in spots when Luka was out w/ an injury in the RS which helped them get the 5 seed. They were worse on both O & D with him on the bench in the RS.



He had two games where he barely shot the ball but had 9 & 11 assists in those, hence the low PPG. Wasn't a great series by his standards in terms of his usual averages & efficiency but their role players were on fire and he didn't go into hero mode to disrupt their rhythm, hit some big shots in those 4th quarters too.

Clippers took them to 6 games and he was the best player in that series (27/6/5 65%TS), if he wasn't as good as he was vs. Clippers they go 7 games or maybe even lose that one. He outplayed Ant Man in the WCF after Ant Man said he'd be guarding Kyrie in that series lol, him opening that series up with that 1st half in G1 like he did set the tone for that whole series.

Meh. Maybe he outplayed him but it wasn’t a head-to-head matchup so it’s not really fair to compare. Ant was checking him on one side and Kyrie wasn’t on the other.

[StrongLurk]

Sounds like hating to me. Acting like he hasn't developed at all as a player & leader is just being dishonest IMO. He admitted he wanted to be the man when he forced his way out of Cleveland, he no longer has that mindset from what I've seen.

He had games in these POs where he didn't look to shoot and was more of a decoy/playmaker which helped them win some games and in some games he's taken over early in the 1st half and then was willing to let Luka cook in the 2nd half. He's been huge in spots where Luka's struggled on offense.

If this was just Luka + role players, the Mavs wouldn't be in the Finals right now. He's playing hurt and hasn't been as consistent as a scorer as he has in years past, and if he was the only good ballhandler on the team the opposing teams would just force the ball out of his hands and they'd struggle to create offense vs. good defenses.

As good as some of these role players are they do not have the skillset to handle the ball & help run the offense like Kyrie does.

Again I'm clearly not hating on Kyrie, I'm just providing reason considering the only thing changing the perspective of a lot of people are literally just the fact that the Mavs are winning games recently. That's literally it. Also you keep making a stupid point that the Mavs would be worse if Kyrie wasn't playing. No shit sherlock, that's not what I'm talking about in this thread. What I'm saying is Lively, PJ, and Gafford are why the Mavs turned into an ELITE team. Luka and Kyrie is a great combo, but they needed more depth and better fit players to get to the finals. Without those trades and drafting Lively, the Mavs would not be in the finals. This is not hating Kyrie or Luka to point out this fact.

And in fact, you are saying is Kyrie actually doing LESS on the court than he normally does, but at the same time trying to claim he's now a better player? Lol okay buddy...it's clearly just recency bias toward the Mavs playoff run. Kyrie was a better player on the Cavs and Nets a few years ago than what he is doing now in these playoffs.

[ImKobe]

Again I'm clearly not hating on Kyrie, I'm just providing reason considering the only thing changing the perspective of a lot of people are literally just the fact that the Mavs are winning games recently. That's literally it. Also you keep making a stupid point that the Mavs would be worse if Kyrie wasn't playing. No shit sherlock, that's not what I'm talking about in this thread. What I'm saying is Lively, PJ, and Gafford are why the Mavs turned into an ELITE team. Luka and Kyrie is a great combo, but they needed more depth and better fit players to get to the finals. Without those trades and drafting Lively, the Mavs would not be in the finals. This is not hating Kyrie or Luka to point out this fact.

And in fact, you are saying is Kyrie actually doing LESS on the court than he normally does, but at the same time trying to claim he's now a better player? Lol okay buddy...it's clearly just recency bias toward the Mavs playoff run. Kyrie was a better player on the Cavs and Nets a few years ago than what he is doing now in these playoffs.

The thread is titled: "Kyrie is not why the Mavs are good", that's clearly not true. Role players have helped them become a better team sure, but his own individual play helped them get to the Finals as much as anything.

You're acting as if people don't mature from their early/mid 20s to their 30s. He's no longer trying to prove that he should be a #1, he's saying & doing all the right things on the Mavs and has sacrificed his own scoring for the better of the team in the right moments, and he's a much better defender now than he was in 2016-2022. His own production in key games + his On/Off splits have shown that all season.


Just be honest and say you don't like him as a player and his off-court antics have made you dislike him in the past. You don't have to act like you're an impartial observer. The 2nd best player on the team is not a needle mover lol. gtfoh.

[Axe]

Kyrie can become a cancer again later on. I don't trust this little man. Might be a ticking time bomb for all we know.

[sd3035]

He single handedly led the Cavs to a title and he's still in his prime

I'd say he's a big part although Luka is still their main guy

[FilmyCogTurner]

Who is hating on Kyrie? Not me. Also you didn't disprove anything that I said about net rating. It's far better applied as a team stat, not as an individual stat.

Some people are acting like Kyrie is suddenly this evolved/matured player when he's the same player on the court the he has always been. Mavs couldn't make the playoffs last year because they had massive weaknesses that were shored up by other players. I literally said Kyrie is the Mavs second best player, but he is not the reason why the Mavs are suddenly in the finals like some people are acting :lol

Uhhh, skill wise yes he's the same as he has always been but you can clearly see there has been a change in him as a basketball player. He's doing what he says he was going to do but never did, simply hoop and lead and he's doing a remarkable job of both.

[FultzNationRISE]

That's a silly comment. What team in the West would be in the finals right now with their second best player not playing any games? Kyrie is great but he does not fill the weaknesses of the team like the trio of PJ, Lively, and Gafford.

The lack of a second scorer when Doncic sits or just isnt in beast mode would be a huge weakness if Irving wasnt there.

It’s not about one or the other roles being more important. Theyre all make a difference when it comes to having enough to win a title.

[coin24]

tbf I forgot about lebron/ad. still name the other better ones besides kd/booker. I like george but i'm taking kyrie in playoffs. Jaylen's playmaking too weak for me. Dame had a down year. There arent many other options teams are really good but the stars are spread around

No sane person is taking current bran/AD over Kyrie and Donthicc:lol

Booker KD and Beal are the same player, weak beta.

[SATAN]

The Mavs are good because they acquired Gafford/PJ Washington at the deadline and got a steal by drafting Lively. All three of those guys work in the Mavs system and SORELY fixed the weaknesses of the Mavs team that existed last year.

Yes, obviously Kyrie being healthy come playoff time is important but he is not the "needle mover" for this team. Without those three players, Luka and Kyrie would definitely not be in the finals.

Mavs went 24-9 after those trades which is an elite win-pace. They are clearly much better now than a typical "5 seed" or "13th-ranked SRS" team.

Try telling uncle tontoz that. :oldlol:

[3ba11]

The Mavs are good because they acquired Gafford/PJ Washington at the deadline and drafted Lively






^^^ finding 3 solid role players over the course of 2 seasons are easier fixes and quite standard/normal trading and drafting activity for an average GM in the NBA.

Otoh, finding an arguable top 30 all-time player and gritty champion to pair with your arguable top 10 all-time franchise player - that's a tougher fix and whoever bought Kyrie stock when it was low deserves a pat on the back.

[NBAGOAT]

No sane person is taking current bran/AD over Kyrie and Donthicc:lol

Booker KD and Beal are the same player, weak beta.

Luka/Kyrie are better as a duo but that’s because of Luka. Someone can definitely take lebron or Ad over Kyrie. Doesn’t matter if they play similarly Booker and kd are really good. Kyrie also didn’t do anything in the playoffs since 2017 yet we’re going dismiss those 2 over one bad year with a bad team around them?

[Phoenix]

The question should be, would this team be as good, worse, or better if Jalen Brunson was still running point?

Sure. They made the WCFs just 2 years ago albeit with a few different pieces. The key to success for a Luka led team is clearly ( asides from a legit 2nd star) surrounding him with the right defensive pieces. Dirk, for example, had his most success with Tyson Chandler and Marion as his front court mates, a veteran Kidd and Terry off the bench for offensive punch. That team wasn't more talented, at least offensively, than when he had Nash, Finley, Van Exel etc a decade earlier.

[mentallooser]

I mean...he isn't the ONLY reason they are good. He is certainly A reason that they are

[GOBB]

I’ll be the first to give mavs role players collectively props because they specifically do their role effectively. And don’t try to do too much. But I can’t think of a time where a fan said a group of role player additions is why a team is good lol

This is like saying the lakers dynasty wasn’t because of Shaq/kobe it was fisher, fox, horry. Cmon

[Im Still Ballin]

Kyrie has a +24.2 on/off net rating and +9.3 on-court rating over 684 playoff minutes. Pretty cool stuff.

[coin24]

Luka/Kyrie are better as a duo but that’s because of Luka. Someone can definitely take lebron or Ad over Kyrie. Doesn’t matter if they play similarly Booker and kd are really good. Kyrie also didn’t do anything in the playoffs since 2017 yet we’re going dismiss those 2 over one bad year with a bad team around them?


Lebron is in his 21st season time to realise he’s just collecting meaningless stats at this point.

Davis is just a beta.


I’d take luka and Kyrie over those bums anyday

[tontoz]

Try telling uncle tontoz that. :oldlol:


The problem is that isn't what happened. PJ struggled after the trade and couldn't make open shots.

They got Gafford for a late 1st. Anyone could have traded for him. The big reason that Gafford helped was because Kleber was hurt. He only plays 22 minutes per game and his on/off numbers have sucked in the playoffs.

[tontoz]

Kyrie has a +24.2 on/off net rating and +9.3 on-court rating over 684 playoff minutes. Pretty cool stuff.

Exactly. Let's not pretend the role players are more important than Kyrie.

[tpols]

They're running articles now.

https://i.postimg.cc/mrKpCqzL/Screenshot-20240601-105645-Chrome.jpg

This is quite literally a GOAT back court in the history of basketball.

So of course... that matters.

[NBAGOAT]

They're running articles now.

https://i.postimg.cc/mrKpCqzL/Screenshot-20240601-105645-Chrome.jpg

This is quite literally a GOAT back court in the history of basketball.

So of course... that matters.

ik it was a year but cant overlook harden/cp3. That would be luka/kyrie's best competition

[jayfan]

ik it was a year but cant overlook harden/cp3. That would be luka/kyrie's best competition


Only if they continue to choke and lose incessantly like those two have.


.

[NBAGOAT]

Only if they continue to choke and lose incessantly like those two have.


.

they didnt choke that one year. harden was a mvp, cp3 played like a top 10 player. Luka/kyrie might lose in 5 to that gs team considering the same happened to lebron/kyrie the previous year

[StrongLurk]

The thread is titled: "Kyrie is not why the Mavs are good", that's clearly not true. Role players have helped them become a better team sure, but his own individual play helped them get to the Finals as much as anything.

You're acting as if people don't mature from their early/mid 20s to their 30s. He's no longer trying to prove that he should be a #1, he's saying & doing all the right things on the Mavs and has sacrificed his own scoring for the better of the team in the right moments, and he's a much better defender now than he was in 2016-2022. His own production in key games + his On/Off splits have shown that all season.


Just be honest and say you don't like him as a player and his off-court antics have made you dislike him in the past. You don't have to act like you're an impartial observer. The 2nd best player on the team is not a needle mover lol. gtfoh.

Again none of your posts prove what I am saying to be wrong. You are still trying to say Kyrie is a "better player" now than in the recent past, yet he is actually doing less on the court and taking a "step back". I've also never hated on Kyrie and always said he is a really good player.

Kyrie is not the main reason for the Mavs improvement/success this year from last year. That is my point.

Hate to quote 3ball here, but this Kyrie love fest is literally the "winning spotlight bias". He's a worse player now than a few years ago, but that is being ignored because the team he is on is now in the finals lol.

[bdonovan]

The Mavs offense depends really on one thing: Doncic breaking the defense, and either scoring, getting fouled or distributing. That's the focus of their offense.

Where this gets bogged down is when defenses anticipate this, pressure Doncic, block the passing lanes and the Mavs offense grinds to a halt. IE: Every playoffs he's been in.

What you want is a guy you can give the ball to and score on his own. Klay played this role in the past for Curry. If you over-guard Curry, Klay will score 40 on you. Very few players can trust will do that. Kyrie while maybe not as great in some areas as top players is elite-tier in ISO and can score at volume and with reasonable efficiency. I would not trust Brunson to do that; Brunson doesn't have the handles, speed, and shot-making ability.

A DiY scorer doesn't need the offense to change and support him instead. He is there to punish the other team for doubling and tripling your premier offensive player. No one else on the Mavs fills that role and few in the NBA could, or would be willing to be a #2 on the team.

[tontoz]

Again none of your posts prove what I am saying to be wrong. You are still trying to say Kyrie is a "better player" now than in the recent past, yet he is actually doing less on the court and taking a "step back". I've also never hated on Kyrie and always said he is a really good player.

Kyrie is not the main reason for the Mavs improvement/success this year from last year. That is my point.

Hate to quote 3ball here, but this Kyrie love fest is literally the "winning spotlight bias". He's a worse player now than a few years ago, but that is being ignored because the team he is on is now in the finals lol.


Your point is just wrong. Kyrie was aquired midseason last year and only played 20 games for Dallas. They didn't have time to develop chemistry.

Different story this year. They were 40-19 with Kyrie this season, 11-13 without him.

[90sgoat]

What you want is a guy you can give the ball to and score on his own. Klay played this role in the past for Curry. If you over-guard Curry, Klay will score 40 on you. Very few players can trust will do that. Kyrie while maybe not as great in some areas as top players is elite-tier in ISO and can score at volume and with reasonable efficiency.

That's literally Kyrie's role, he just didn't like the looks he was getting, part of which was Luka struggling to pass out of the doubles or being stressed by Brown.

PJ can actually drive the basket with some success though. Hope he is aggressive and tries to do that.