Bill Simmons - Steph Curry has never been the best player in the league

[Carbine]

Ryan Ruisillo agreed as well.

'00 and '01 Shaq
'02 to '07 Duncan
'08 to '10 Kobe
'11 Dirk or vacant
'12 to '18 Lebron
'19 Leonard
'20 vacant
'21 Giannis
'22 to current Jokic

[SouBeachTalents]

The only time I felt Curry was clearly the btw was during the 73 win season. Besides that you could certainly argue him for other years, but imo other guys prob had better arguments than he did. As for their other years, I’d disagree with

02: Shaq
04: KG
06: Wade
09 & 10: LeBron

[FultzNationRISE]

Ryan Ruisillo agreed as well.

'00 and '01 Shaq
'02 to '07 Duncan
'08 to '10 Kobe
'11 Dirk or vacant
'12 to '18 Lebron
'19 Leonard
'20 vacant
'21 Giannis
'22 to current Jokic

Honestly nobody was genuinely purely better individually and objectively, than Lebron from like 07 to 22. Some guys had better seasons or bigger workloads at various times, but in a vacuum of pure individual value, absent external circumstances, once Lebron entered his prime nobody was actually better than him for like 15 years.

This isnt shtick, Im serious.

[ArbitraryWater]

Well yeah, you could argue 2022 though.

He peaked right at Brons peak really, then was injured, but outside of 2022 he was contended again.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ryan Ruisillo agreed as well.

'00 and '01 Shaq
'02 to '07 Duncan
'08 to '10 Kobe
'11 Dirk or vacant
'12 to '18 Lebron
'19 Leonard
'20 vacant
'21 Giannis
'22 to current Jokic

Thats a weird list


And just vacating 2020 is insane lmao

[ArbitraryWater]

2012-2022: leBron

Can make cases for someone in 2021 and 2022 but realistically Bron was still the best.

[AlternativeAcc.]

The only time I felt Curry was clearly the btw was during the 73 win season. Besides that you could certainly argue him for other years, but imo other guys prob had better arguments than he did. As for their other years, I’d disagree with

02: Shaq
04: KG
06: Wade
09 & 10: LeBron

Nah, he had a goofy regular season of stat padding but peak LeBron was better on both ends.

These guys are obviously right, steph was never the best in the world. He got hyped because little kids bought his jersey and he brought eyeballs. Jeremy lin effect.

[Carbine]

The only time I felt Curry was clearly the btw was during the 73 win season. Besides that you could certainly argue him for other years, but imo other guys prob had better arguments than he did. As for their other years, I’d disagree with

02: Shaq
04: KG
06: Wade
09 & 10: LeBron

Curry can't hold it after what happened in the finals blowing a 3-1 lead to the current belt holder in Lebron. That year just cemented that it was clearly and surely Lebron and than Curry.

[StrongLurk]

He 2016 year is kind of like Lebron's 2011 year in a sense. Curry was the best player all year up until the finals.

Other than 2016, I agree that Curry has not been the best player in any other years. It's mostly Lebron every year, then KD/Giannis has some argument, then for sure Jokic these last few years.

[ImKobe]

Curry was better than Lebron in 2015.

[Manny98]

He was the best in 2015 imo

[AlternativeAcc.]

Curry can't hold it after what happened in the finals blowing a 3-1 lead to the current belt holder in Lebron. That year just cemented that it was clearly and surely Lebron and than Curry.

That series made it not even debatable. LeBron destroyed him on both ends with a weaker cast. Not even close. He humiliated Curry as if he was a child.

[tpols]

2015 and 2016 Curry was for sure.

In 2015 the Warriors over / under odds were set at 52 wins. They won 67. Incredible difference. +2800 massive championship underdogs.

https://i.postimg.cc/g2T0RRPq/Screenshot-20240531-161810-Chrome.jpg

^ with Cleveland as absolute massive favorites.

And then in 2016, Golden State was projected at 59.5 wins O/U. They won 73 and broke the NBA season win record.

Dubious and money hungry nefarious circumstances dictated the ring outcome after they were spanking the cavs up 3-1.

[StrongLurk]

2015 and 2016 Curry was for sure.

In 2015 the Warriors over / under odds were set at 52 wins. They won 67. Incredible difference. +2800 massive championship underdogs.

https://i.postimg.cc/g2T0RRPq/Screenshot-20240531-161810-Chrome.jpg

^ with Cleveland as absolute massive favorites.

And then in 2016, Golden State was projected at 59.5 wins O/U. They won 73 and broke the NBA season win record.

Dubious and money hungry nefarious circumstances dictated the ring outcome after they were spanking the cavs up 3-1.

GS got lucky in 2015 to win, let's be real. Kerr definitely turned the team around and Curry's improvement plus Draymond's improvement was massive. But they literally won the finals because Love was out and Kyrie got injured in game 1 :lol

Could you imagine the scenario reversed where Lebron/Kyrie/Love are healthy while Dray doesn't play in the finals and Klay gets hurt in game 1 :roll:.

You have to realize the 2016 Warriors team was actually much better than the 2015 team despite it just being one year difference. 2015 Warriors are one of the weakest champions of all time in my opinion.

[Carbine]

Absolutely. It would also be like if Kyrie and Gafford + Lively couldn't play in this series against the Celtics. It would be a foregone conclusion of Celtics victory. Doesn't mean Luka is a worse player because of it.

[1987_Lakers]

2022 is really the only year you can make a good case for him.

Can’t be 2015 and 2016 the way Curry was outshined by LeBron in the Finals.

[tontoz]

I see Simmons is still butthurt about Curry punking the C's in the finals. Get over it ffs.

[pandiani17]

2022 is really the only year you can make a good case for him.

Can’t be 2015 and 2016 the way Curry was outshined by LeBron in the Finals.

I am not a fan of Curry, but IMO he was the best those two seasons. The sentence "in the league" takes into account the Regular Season and the playoffs, and during the Regular Season he shined more than LeBron those seasons. In the finals LeBron was better, but in the previous +90 games Steph had a bigger impact.

[Hey Yo]

GS got lucky in 2015 to win, let's be real. Kerr definitely turned the team around and Curry's improvement plus Draymond's improvement was massive. But they literally won the finals because Love was out and Kyrie got injured in game 1 :lol

Could you imagine the scenario reversed where Lebron/Kyrie/Love are healthy while Dray doesn't play in the finals and Klay gets hurt in game 1 :roll:.

You have to realize the 2016 Warriors team was actually much better than the 2015 team despite it just being one year difference. 2015 Warriors are one of the weakest champions of all time in my opinion.

After Cavs lost Irving and game 1 in 2015..... LeBron and Delly proceeded to win the next 2gms. Then Kerr inserted the eventual FMVP to try to slow LeBron down which made Steph an afterthought.

[FultzNationRISE]

I am not a fan of Curry, but IMO he was the best those two seasons. The sentence "in the league" takes into account the Regular Season and the playoffs, and during the Regular Season he shined more than LeBron those seasons. In the finals LeBron was better, but in the previous +90 games Steph had a bigger impact.

People interpret things different ways but there's a difference IMO between having the best season and being the best player.

To me best player is a hypothetical meaning if everyone is at their optimal health and in equal circumstance, which player do you want if you need to win a game or a series or a postseason etc.

I guarantee you way few people than are admitting it are taking 16 Curry or 19 Kawhi or 21 Giannis over Lebron James from those same years if theyre told they have to win 1 series with an unknown supporting cast and their life is on the line. It doesnt matter what kind of season Lebron had. In those years, if the chips are down and your life is on the line, youre still taking Lebron.

To me, and again this is just my personal interpretation of what 'best' means, the best player doesnt get passed as such until there is a clear, long term "best player" whose upward trajectory has now passed the previous best player's downward trajectory. It's not like, "oh well this guy had a great season, so he's the best this year, but next year it's this other guy cuz his season was really good, and then a third year it could be a third guy" type thing.

Best player doesnt change year by year. It's a big picture thing. It's like... MJ, to Shaq, to Lebron, to Jokic. Any years those guys are in their prime and active, they ARE the best player. Regardless of the type of season they have. Theyre still the best basketball players.

[hold this L]

2022 is really the only year you can make a good case for him.

Can’t be 2015 and 2016 the way Curry was outshined by LeBron in the Finals.
How was Lebron outshining him in 2015? Literally the worst shooting in NBA finals history in the last few decades. And Lebron was put on single coverage all series while Curry was doubled on the other end.

[ImKobe]

2022 is really the only year you can make a good case for him.

Can’t be 2015 and 2016 the way Curry was outshined by LeBron in the Finals.

He was not outshined lol. Lebron stat-padded because of injuries but when it came down to winning games in the 4th Steph just outplayed him. Steph had better numbers in both RS & Playoffs when you factor in efficiency and winning. Just because the media was heavily biased towards Lebron doesn't mean that Steph wasn't the better player.

[SouBeachTalents]

To me best player is a hypothetical meaning if everyone is at their optimal health and in equal circumstance, which player do you want if you need to win a game or a series or a postseason etc.

I guarantee you way few people than are admitting it are taking 16 Curry or 19 Kawhi or 21 Giannis over Lebron James from those same years if theyre told they have to win 1 series with an unknown supporting cast and their life is on the line. It doesnt matter what kind of season Lebron had. In those years, if the chips are down and your life is on the line, youre still taking Lebron.
This is a very interesting hypothetical. No trolling, I would take LeBron in this scenario every season from 2012-2020, 2009 as well. I can't in good conscience take him in 2011, that looming Finals performance would be too big of a deterrent to me. 2010 would be tough too with how those final 3 games against Boston played out. I just don't think LeBron truly matched the mental part of his game to his physical until 2012.

I think by 2021 I would really start to pick multiple players ahead of him, which there's no shame in, he was 36 by then.

[FultzNationRISE]

This is a very interesting hypothetical. No trolling, I would take LeBron in this scenario every season from 2012-2020, 2009 as well. I can't in good conscience take him in 2011, that looming Finals performance would be too big of a deterrent to me. 2010 would be tough too with how those final 3 games against Boston played out. I just don't think LeBron truly matched the mental part of his game to his physical until 2012.

I think by 2021 I would really start to pick multiple players ahead of him, which there's no shame in, he was 36 by then.

That's fair but in my opinion individual series in 2010 and 2011 are still very circumstantial. The Heat were still figuring out how to actually fit these three players together, and Wade wanted to be the guy in the Finals which took Lebron out of his comfort zone. Dirk on the other hand was in a perfect situation on a team with perfectly defined roles, chemistry etc.

If youre starting a team from scratch in 2011 and saying every player is in their optimal situation, are you really taking Dirk or anyone over Lebron? Lebron was the league MVP in 09, 10, 12, and 13. It's not like he inexplicably lost competence as a player for 1 year in between those seasons. He was still the best player, just in a sub optimal circumstance. Was some of it his doing? Hell no, but I understand some would argue that. Even still, one mistake that cascades into a butterfly effect on his circumstance doesnt mean he's suddenly not the best player. In my opinion.

Dirk's a great player but he was never AS hot as he was in the '11 run. So that run is not really who he was. That's my point I guess. A single year peak is usually not 'who a player is.' It's an anomaly. Whereas Lebron's 2011 Finals was the anomaly. There's a decade of evidence as to who he really was. THAT'S a sample size. And 2011 was right in the middle of it. So to me it doesnt make sense to say someone else was really the best player at that point.

[Axe]

His team was simply too stacked back in the day for someone to say that he used to be the best man there.

[Hey Yo]

How was Lebron outshining him in 2015? Literally the worst shooting in NBA finals history in the last few decades. And Lebron was put on single coverage all series while Curry was doubled on the other end.

LeBron was pressured while going to the basket and met with double coverage at the rim.

[ImKobe]

LeBron was pressured while going to the basket and met with double coverage at the rim.

Just shoot the J then? Oh that's right, he was bad and like historically bad as a jump shooter in those POs. He shot 22.7% on 5.3 3PA, and that was the worst out of any player in history with that kind of volume for a deep Playoff run in NBA history at the time at least, probably still is the worst.

[paksat]

Just shoot the J then? Oh that's right, he was bad and like historically bad as a jump shooter in those POs. He shot 22.7% on 5.3 3PA, and that was the worst out of any player in history with that kind of volume for a deep Playoff run in NBA history at the time at least, probably still is the worst.

there's people here that buy that hype

like fultz taking 19 lebron over 19 kawhi, similar offensive numbers with kawhi shooting much better from 3 and lebron getting much more assists..

but kawhi is a top 3 all time defender, and that playoff run was one for the ages.. yet they still take lebron, lol ok

[Axe]

^^Because they are simply not casuals, unlike you...

But i do agree that raptors kawhi was something very special.

[1987_Lakers]

How was Lebron outshining him in 2015? Literally the worst shooting in NBA finals history in the last few decades. And Lebron was put on single coverage all series while Curry was doubled on the other end.

I like when people say this, when you watched the games it LeBron was carrying the Cavs to victories by himself despite being outmatched, it wasn't until Golden State put Iggy in the starting lineup that the series changed. Curry was getting clamped up by Dellavedova for a good chunk of the Finals.

Curry would have easily been the best in 2016 if it wasn't for that disastrous Finals performance.

[Axe]

I like when people say this, when you watched the games it LeBron was carrying the Cavs to victories by himself despite being outmatched, it wasn't until Golden State put Iggy in the starting lineup that the series changed. Curry was getting clamped up by Dellavedova for a good chunk of the Finals.

Curry would have easily been the best in 2016 if it wasn't for that disastrous Finals performance.
Ether.

[warriorfan]

2015 and 2016 Curry was for sure.

In 2015 the Warriors over / under odds were set at 52 wins. They won 67. Incredible difference. +2800 massive championship underdogs.

https://i.postimg.cc/g2T0RRPq/Screenshot-20240531-161810-Chrome.jpg

^ with Cleveland as absolute massive favorites.

And then in 2016, Golden State was projected at 59.5 wins O/U. They won 73 and broke the NBA season win record.

Dubious and money hungry nefarious circumstances dictated the ring outcome after they were spanking the cavs up 3-1.

yeah, it’s weird revisionist history lol

bill simmons is just biased because steph completely shit on his celtics

[SATAN]

Poor little fella just happened to playing in the LeBron era. :(

Great player though.

[Stephonit]

Poor little fella just happened to playing in the LeBron era. :(

Great player though.

The LeBron era? When was that? What happened in this era?

Poor Bronies still desperately trying to salvage a narrative for their guy who was supposed to be the greatest but who was surpassed in every important historical context.

[tpols]

Poor little fella just happened to playing in the LeBron era. :(

Great player though.

Currys teams hold a MASSIVE win loss and point differential advantage over Lebrons.

:roll:

[Stephonit]

Whoever wins between the Celtics and the Mavericks just by these two teams making the finals Curry's 2022 looks even better in hindsight.

[tpols]

Whoever wins between the Celtics and the Mavericks just by these two teams making the finals Curry's 2022 looks even better in hindsight.

Didn't think of it that way but very true.

Curry beat both of these teams. With Klay and Dray absolutely shitting the bed.

Dallas had Brunson instead of kyrie, but we see now Brunson is a super talent as well.

[ShawkFactory]

Whoever wins between the Celtics and the Mavericks just by these two teams making the finals Curry's 2022 looks even better in hindsight.

How?

[ShawkFactory]

yeah, it’s weird revisionist history lol

bill simmons is just biased because steph completely shit on his celtics

Idk if that’s it. He’s had this take for a while now I think. Brons shit on Celtics a couple times in the last decade and the sentiments aren’t the same there.

He also puts Curry in his all time “pantheon” which is the group of GOATs that played and looked differently from everyone else who’s played. He only has 15 or so there.

There’s no Curry hate from him at all he just doesn’t think he was as good as Bron. Which is a reasonable take.

[warriorfan]

Idk if that’s it. He’s had this take for a while now I think. Brons shit on Celtics a couple times in the last decade and the sentiments aren’t the same there.

He also puts Curry in his all time “pantheon” which is the group of GOATs that played and looked differently from everyone else who’s played. He only has 15 or so there.

Celtics literally beat down bron so ****ing hard he had to fake an elbow surgery and flee to south beach. Bron beat up on an already faded and old celtic team with his collusion. I don’t think anyone cared at that point really.

Curry snatched the ring directly out of their hands. Cucked the Celtics to having one ring in the past 35+ years

[ShawkFactory]

Celtics literally beat down bron so ****ing hard he had to fake an elbow surgery and flee to south beach. Bron beat up on an already faded and old celtic team with his collusion. I don’t think anyone cared at that point really.

Curry snatched the ring directly out of their hands. Cucked the Celtics to having one ring in the past 35+ years

Look you can speculate if you want l, I’m just telling you what he’s said. He has said that the 2018 run was some of the most fun he’s had watching the Celtics given the circumstances with Kyrie out. Up 3-2 in the ECF in an improbable finals run and Lebron stole their hearts in games 6 and 7. He’s said how much that hurt.

If anything he has MORE reverence for guys he watches destroy his team in person.

He just thinks Bron was a better player than Curry

[warriorfan]

Look you can speculate if you want l, I’m just telling you what he’s said. He has said that the 2018 run was some of the most fun he’s had watching the Celtics given the circumstances with Kyrie out. Up 3-2 in the ECF in an improbable finals run and Lebron stole their hearts in games 6 and 7. He’s said how much that hurt.

If anything he has MORE reverence for guys he watches destroy his team in person.

He just thinks Bron was a better player than Curry

2022 was way worse for C fans are you kidding me lmao

regardless, it’s besides the point, bill simmons is a pencil neck geek. he doesn’t even know basketball besides autistically ranting off celtics history from an extremely biased viewpoint. we done with him.

[ShawkFactory]

2022 was way worse for C fans are you kidding me lmao

regardless, it’s besides the point, bill simmons is a pencil neck geek. we done with him.

Maybe but Again..just telling you what Bill Simmons has said. In both instances he watched his teams have a chance and be stomped by a great player. That’s why he praises both players.

It’s not a weird take to believe Bron > Curry. You can disagree as I’m sure you will but you can certainly make a strong argument for Bron and you know that.

[Stephonit]

How?

If we have entered a new era three next generation heirs have so far stood out: Jokic and the Nuggets, Luka and the Mavericks, and the J and J Celtics.

Curry is the lone previous generation star to have met and defeated all three while the new generation players can be described as in their primes.

[Axe]

Whoever wins between the Celtics and the Mavericks just by these two teams making the finals Curry's 2022 looks even better in hindsight.
Was that the year in which chef gerbil managed to snag a finals mvp for the very first time in his career? Funny how it took him six trips to the finals for it to finally happen. :ohwell:

Now cue in the 'media-driven awards', etc.

[Stephonit]

Was that the year in which chef gerbil managed to snag a finals mvp for the very first time in his career? Funny how it took him going to six trips to the finals for it to finally happen. :ohwell:

Now cue in the 'media-driven awards', etc.

How funny it is Curry has 4 championships that if we are to believe his detractors must be a matter of luck. The record wins seasons are a matter of luck too. As is beating more All-NBA players along the way. As is playing in the tougher conference.

You can believe Damian Lillard is as good as Curry while you're at it.

It's interesting to see how gullible people are that they will repeat whatever the media says. Anyone with half a brain recognizing the silliness would have to question whether the LeBron stories are really just a media creation.

[Axe]

Yeah, let's not forget that kd assured them two rings in-between of those four. Truly stacked af.

[Stephonit]

Yeah, let's not forget that kd assured them two rings in-between of those four. Truly stacked af.

KD assured Westbrook and Harden rings in OKC, Harden and Kyrie rings in Brooklyn, and Booker and Beal rings in Phoenix too.

[Axe]

And until now, he still has twice the amount of your hero's finals mvp. :ohwell:

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220701-162940.jpg

[Axe]

:roll:

[Naero]

Mostly true.

The 2016 regular season was the only stretch he had a strong argument as BITW. He failed to immortalize that status in the postseason, though: the drop-off was just unignorable, especially on the biggest stage.

Ditto for 2015, where he could have first earned that title if it weren’t for his Finals struggles.

I’m not buying the argument for 2022, either. Giannis and Jokic were clearly the league’s top-two players that season, and either one of them plausibly could’ve beaten the Warriors with healthier supporting casts. Curry wholly deserved that Finals MVP, but I’m not sure his name is even murmured in the BITW conversation without something as (mostly) circumstantial as being on the championship team.

His real distinction was as the most influential (albeit not the best) player of his generation. He might not have ever been the most dominant overall player in the league, but he did revolutionize the game more than any of his peers.

[SATAN]

Currys teams hold a MASSIVE win loss and point differential advantage over Lebrons.

:roll:

Yet it was the LeBron era and almost anyone will tell you he's the better player. Nice try at changing what the thread discussion is about.

Also lol@Stanonit's low IQ take.

[1987_Lakers]

2022 was way worse for C fans are you kidding me lmao

regardless, it’s besides the point, bill simmons is a pencil neck geek. he doesn’t even know basketball besides autistically ranting off celtics history from an extremely biased viewpoint. we done with him.

He wrote a book in 2009 that is looked at as the NBA bible. He might be biased or whatever on this take, but he clearly knows his stuff.

[iamgine]

It's pretty insane not to say Lebron as the best player in 2009. I feel it's one of the most inarguable "oh this guy is the best player" ever.

But I guess they have this criteria where they don't want to skip a year and Lebron did sh!t the bed in 2011 finals so they'd have to skip that year if they went with Lebron in 09 and 10.

[Carbine]

Lebron still had some serious issues with his overall offensive game in 2009. Kobe on the other hand had no such weaknesses to exploit, his game was in full effect capped by his excellent playoff run. I'm definitely taking Kobe in high leverage games at that point against good defenses.

[Stephonit]

Mostly true.

The 2016 regular season was the only stretch he had a strong argument as BITW. He failed to immortalize that status in the postseason, though: the drop-off was just unignorable, especially on the biggest stage.

Ditto for 2015, where he could have first earned that title if it weren’t for his Finals struggles.

I’m not buying the argument for 2022, either. Giannis and Jokic were clearly the league’s top-two players that season, and either one of them plausibly could’ve beaten the Warriors with healthier supporting casts. Curry wholly deserved that Finals MVP, but I’m not sure his name is even murmured in the BITW conversation without something as (mostly) circumstantial as being on the championship team.

His real distinction was as the most influential (albeit not the best) player of his generation. He might not have ever been the most dominant overall player in the league, but he did revolutionize the game more than any of his peers.

I keep hearing about how other players were the best. How was this expressed or manifested? Giannis was an MVP and got a ring? Jokic was too? But Curry produced a season that deserved and got a unanimous MVP and led historic teams. Are Giannis's and Jokic's title runs historic? What makes them historic?

Curry dominated the league. The reason this seems to escape people is because he did it his own way that empowered his teammates. But the end result was dominance the other players in his era cannot be described as having achieved.

[Carbine]

Jokic run is definitely historic by the numbers.

[Axe]

Curry dominated the league. The reason this seems to escape people is because he did it his own way that empowered his teammates. But the end result was dominance the other players in his era cannot be described as having achieved.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoDVTV2fvT5NKO7lpIYDuMUNgfP0hOy yiBy1WpGa4jYKG9oAB8fO0RSdRq&s=10

[Stephonit]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoDVTV2fvT5NKO7lpIYDuMUNgfP0hOy yiBy1WpGa4jYKG9oAB8fO0RSdRq&s=10


Case in point. Which other championship team had a player worse than Andre Iguodala as arguably the second best player on the team?

[Carbine]

Curry was extremely fortunate to be surrounded by Draymond who contrary to the awards Gobert has recieved is actually the best defensive big of his era.

Also played with Iggy who is universally regarded as one of the best defensive wings of his era.

Klay Thompson was also a guy who played defense at a high level.

Played with Bogut, who was during his time with the Warriors the best rim protector by the numbers in the league.

To say "which other champion had a player worse than Iggy as the second best player" just shows how simpleton and immature your thought process is. The Warriors were finely tuned to suppress Steph's shortcomings while being very deep in his pre KD days and obviously stacked beyond belief 1 through 4 when Durant joined.

[warriorfan]

Curry was extremely fortunate to be surrounded by Draymond who contrary to the awards Gobert has recieved is actually the best defensive big of his era.

Also played with Iggy who is universally regarded as one of the best defensive wings of his era.

Klay Thompson was also a guy who played defense at a high level.

Played with Bogut, who was during his time with the Warriors the best rim protector by the numbers in the league.

To say "which other champion had a player worse than Iggy as the second best player" just shows how simpleton and immature your thought process is. The Warriors were finely tuned to suppress Steph's shortcomings while being very deep in his pre KD days and obviously stacked beyond belief 1 through 4 when Durant joined.

those guys aren’t that good. it’s a bunch of solid defensive role players. have you seen how draymond plays without Steph?

dray is great but like gobert he’s an offensive liability himself. he offers no spacing and is definitely an overrated handler/passer. curry has lead the league in hockey assists for multiple years and the number one guy who benefits thst is draymond green from the high post after curry gets trapped. like I said before don’t expect draymond to run the offense or be an assist machine if you dropped him on a team without steph. Dray won’t get as picked on on switches as Gobert but he doesn’t protect the rim anything like Gobert does. Dray seems so successful because he played with Steph. Guess what if Rudy played with Steph he would have some rings too.

Klay in 2015 finals averaged like 15 points per game on poor efficiency


Bogut was post injury and playing low mpg, he was a great player but still, he’s not All Star level Bucks Andrew Bogut

Same with Iggy

These are all role player type guys. Great role players but still, let’s not get ourselves carried away here.

[Axe]

Case in point. Which other championship team had a player worse than Andre Iguodala as arguably the second best player on the team?
You mean which other teams had a player who's as excellent of a lucky charm as iggy? Take note that he's never missed the playoffs for more than ten years and at one point, was able to make the finals six times in a row.

[Carbine]

those guys aren’t that good. it’s a bunch of solid defensive role players. have you seen how draymond plays without Steph?

dray is great but like gobert he’s an offensive liability himself. he offers no spacing and is definitely an overrated handler/passer. curry has lead the league in hockey assists for multiple years and the number one guy who benefits thst is draymond green from the high post after curry gets trapped. like I said before don’t expect draymond to run the offense or be an assist machine if you dropped him on a team without steph. Dray won’t get as picked on on switches as Gobert but he doesn’t protect the rim anything like Gobert does. Dray seems so successful because he played with Steph. Guess what if Rudy played with Steph he would have some rings too.

Klay in 2015 finals averaged like 15 points per game on poor efficiency


Bogut was post injury and playing low mpg, he was a great player but still, he’s not All Star level Bucks Andrew Bogut

Same with Iggy

These are all role player type guys. Great role players but still, let’s not get ourselves carried away here.


The only person getting carried away is you. Nothing you have ever posted shows an ability to be unbiased about Curry.

Teams are LUCKY to have one player that provides the level of all around impact like Iggy. Curry got to play with not one, not two, not three but four guys pre KD who embodied making huge impacts without touching the basketball. Klay could score 50 with 5 dribbles. Bogut played limited minutes but when he was out there he was an impact player.

This isn't even mentioning important players like Livingstone and Barnes. He wasn't out there dragging bad championship caliber rosters to a 2015 title. That's the point.

One final thing. You're assertion that Draymond wasn't a rim protector is so very misguided. Perhaps you were 9 when he was in his peak so you weren't quite grasping what was happening. Draymond was arguably THE BEST rim protector in entire league around 2016-2017. His ability to provide EARLY help and see the play before it happened erased a lot of would be easy attempts at the basket. He also was phenomenal at going straight up and contesting shots. Please read below to educate yourself on the best defender of his era, Draymond Green. It's a sad day when I have to be the voice of reason regarding Dray to a username Warriorfan

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4zenaz/oc_how_67_draymond_green_manages_to_protect_the/&ved=2ahUKEwjrjrLf-7uGAxWGEFkFHX7nBkgQjjh6BAgOEAE&usg=AOvVaw1KaCm-V5LJd0DtqJS3ZZkS

[warriorfan]

The only person getting carried away is you. Nothing you have ever posted shows an ability to be unbiased about Curry.

Teams are LUCKY to have one player that provides the level of all around impact like Iggy. Curry got to play with not one, not two, not three but four guys pre KD who embodied making huge impacts without touching the basketball. Klay could score 50 with 5 dribbles. Bogut played limited minutes but when he was out there he was an impact player.

This isn't even mentioning important players like Livingstone and Barnes. He wasn't out there dragging bad championship caliber rosters to a 2015 title. That's the point.

One final thing. You're assertion that Draymond wasn't a rim protector is so very misguided. Perhaps you were 9 when he was in his peak so you weren't quite grasping what was happening. Draymond was arguably THE BEST rim protector in entire league around 2016-2017. His ability to provide EARLY help and see the play before it happened erased a lot of would be easy attempts at the basket. He also was phenomenal at going straight up and contesting shots. Please read below to educate yourself on the best defender of his era, Draymond Green. It's a sad day when I have to be the voice of reason regarding Dray to a username Warriorfan

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4zenaz/oc_how_67_draymond_green_manages_to_protect_the/&ved=2ahUKEwjrjrLf-7uGAxWGEFkFHX7nBkgQjjh6BAgOEAE&usg=AOvVaw1KaCm-V5LJd0DtqJS3ZZkS

I said he wasn’t as good as a rim protected as gobert you straw man mother ****er


yeah klay can score 50 points in a quarter vs a terrible team in the regular season, big whoop

peep 2015 finals, 15 ppg on allen iverson percentages

all of these guys are supposedly so good but never did anything outside of steph curry

[RRR3]

I said he wasn’t as good as a rim protected as gobert you straw man mother ****er


yeah klay can score 50 points in a quarter vs a terrible team in the regular season, big whoop

peep 2015 finals, 15 ppg on allen iverson percentages

all of these guys are supposedly so good but never did anything outside of steph curry
Both Iguodala and KD have made the finals without Curry. Klay and Dray have never played without Curry, hard for them to do anything without their teammate.

[Stephonit]

Curry was extremely fortunate to be surrounded by Draymond who contrary to the awards Gobert has recieved is actually the best defensive big of his era.

Also played with Iggy who is universally regarded as one of the best defensive wings of his era.

Klay Thompson was also a guy who played defense at a high level.

Played with Bogut, who was during his time with the Warriors the best rim protector by the numbers in the league.

To say "which other champion had a player worse than Iggy as the second best player" just shows how simpleton and immature your thought process is. The Warriors were finely tuned to suppress Steph's shortcomings while being very deep in his pre KD days and obviously stacked beyond belief 1 through 4 when Durant joined.

Is there some rule that prevents others from building their team around the strengths and weaknesses of their star player? Yet it was the Curry Warriors who started a season with +2800 odds to win a championship that went on to do just that winning 67 times along the way and in the next season set the wins record for a single season. In all NBA history what teams or team-ups have come close to such a result?

But it's lucky Steph got to play with a second rounder and the other guys you mentioned who had never made it past a second round before without him. I guess it is extremely lucky for him too that he got the chance to win with a team that was last in the league after two seasons.

I notice no one has actually given an example in answer to the question.

[Carbine]

Is there some rule that prevents others from building their team around the strengths and weaknesses of their star player? Yet it was the Curry Warriors who started a season with +2800 odds to win a championship that went on to do just that winning 67 times along the way and in the next season set the wins record for a single season. In all NBA history what teams or team-ups have come close to such a result?

But it's lucky Steph got to play with a second rounder and the other guys you mentioned who had never made it past a second round before without him. I guess it is extremely lucky for him too that he got the chance to win with a team that was last in the league after two seasons.

I notice no one has actually given an example in answer to the question.

There are quite a number of teams who have won 1 title in a span of two years. The result is what happens at the end, the conclusion. The result was 1 title in two years.

However, I can only come up with one team who was a defending champion than proceeded to lose a 3-1 series lead in the finals. That result has not been replicated.

[warriorfan]

Both Iguodala and KD have made the finals without Curry. Klay and Dray have never played without Curry, hard for them to do anything without their teammate.

do you realize dray is an offensive liability and often doesn’t get guarded like rudy gobert whom you love spamming about all fiucking day

like lol

[Stephonit]

There are quite a number of teams who have won 1 title in a span of two years. The result is what happens at the end, the conclusion. The result was 1 title in two years.

However, I can only come up with one team who was a defending champion than proceeded to lose a 3-1 series lead in the finals. That result has not been replicated.

One title in the span of two years? Wouldn't every championship team qualify for that? My condition was win a championship with a team that had finished last in the league after two years. If you can name another example go ahead.

Of course your example isn't that common either—but what does it really say? One has to be a championship team first. Then go to the finals the next year. Then go up in the series 3-1. Each of those conditions could be considered an achievement in itself.

[FilmyCogTurner]

A lot of posters confusing best team with best player.

00-03 - Shaq
04-07 - Duncan
08-11 - Kobe
12-18 - Lebron
19 - Kawhi
20 - Bubble
21 - Giannis
22 - So close to call, Jokic, Giannis and Currys best shot at the title
23 - Jokic

[NBAGOAT]

do you realize dray is an offensive liability and often doesn’t get guarded like rudy gobert whom you love spamming about all fiucking day

like lol

later sure but especially in 16 he could shoot the ball. Steph had meh offensive help pre durant but dray's impact those years shouldnt be downplayed. In 16, he was a 91st percentile guy on offense by epm put up 14/7 39% from along with goat lvl defense. He was in all the smart people's top 10 lists

[RRR3]

do you realize dray is an offensive liability and often doesn’t get guarded like rudy gobert whom you love spamming about all fiucking day

like lol
Do you think I actually think Gobert isn’t good? Low IQ af

[warriorfan]

later sure but especially in 16 he could shoot the ball. Steph had meh offensive help pre durant but dray's impact those years shouldnt be downplayed. In 16, he was a 91st percentile guy on offense by epm put up 14/7 39% from along with goat lvl defense. He was in all the smart people's top 10 lists

He was nuts in 16 but 16 was a bit of an outlier. I don’t have the stats in front of me but his 3 point shot was lost after that year. It became a thing to give him the rondo treatment and not even guard him out there. He became a meme on twitter for his backpack shooting motion. Totally killed spacing. A few years later he got to the point where he had trouble finishing easy layups around the rim. Hes been an offensive liability for along time.

[warriorfan]

Do you think I actually think Gobert isn’t good? Low IQ af

I’m sorry I didn’t know you had that little of a life

[Charlie Sheen]

Simmons also said Dame was better than Steph around the time of the pandemic.
Rusillo used to be a cp3 > Steph guy

I would not put much value into what either has to say about Steph

[Da_Realist]

2016 was Steph's year. It was historic. Nobody mentioned LeBron's name during 95% of that season but Steph opened the door when he couldn't get his team past the Cavs in the Finals. Now history may erase that historic year or at least devalue it. Winning changes everyone's perception. That's why it's the ultimate goal. Winners write the history. Losers have no choice but to accept it.

[Hey Yo]

How was Lebron outshining him in 2015? Literally the worst shooting in NBA finals history in the last few decades. And Lebron was put on single coverage all series while Curry was doubled on the other end.
LeBron was never met in the paint with a hard double team?

[bdonovan]

Ryan Ruisillo agreed as well.

'00 and '01 Shaq
'02 to '07 Duncan
'08 to '10 Kobe
'11 Dirk or vacant
'12 to '18 Lebron
'19 Leonard
'20 vacant
'21 Giannis
'22 to current Jokic

Simmons is a sports generalist, has done nothing in my mind to separate himself from any other sports analyst in his quality of basketball analysis. I read Simmons Book of Basketball and it was high on opinion, low on fact. Full of half-witted analysis like the best player on the team has to be the alpha male off the court. The kind of analysis a guy at the bar might say.

The reason Doncic is coming into his own is he's making his teammates better. Being the best player doesn't necessarily mean the best ISO. It means the person with the greatest impact on the game.

[GimmeThat]

and the worst the odds, the more it attracts gamblers