Rudy Gobert's Performance in WCF

[FKAri]

Can all the Rudy haters and defenders provide some arguments for your sides?

I'm not a hater. I'm actually a defender of his for the most part. But the one thing I struggle to understand about the WCF is how easily the Mavs were able to score at the rim. Usually when a team is able to neutralize a shot blocker it's because he's being pulled out of the paint by shooting bigs. But both Dallas bigs are basically at the dunker spot. The next culprit is usually terrible pick and roll defense. The problem is nothing was being taken away. Mavs were scoring easily at the rim(especially for a playoff series with tight whistles) and they were also easily scoring in space and they were also getting open 3's.

The best way to absolve Rudy would be to argue that Towns is just THAT bad of a rotational defender that he can't help the helper whenever Rudy steps up to contest anything.

Curious to hear from Xiao.

[NBAGOAT]

this guy breaks it down pretty well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_a5_WdcI0.

Edit: rim protection stuff starts at 6:10

[ImKobe]

Gobert is not worth the price that the Wolves paid to get him. He had a "meh" series, but that's the type of player that he is in the Playoffs. He had good defensive players around him this time around and the Mavs still made him look useless as a player. Thats just how it is in the modern NBA. Rudy is a great individual defender, but opponents can game plan around that where it won't matter, and they did. The drop coverage with Rudy sitting back there didn't work, and when Luka got him on a switch on the perimeter he got cooked.

[NBAGOAT]

this guy breaks it down pretty well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_a5_WdcI0.

cliff notes is luka is just too good. gobert/mcdaniels couldnt guard luka/whoever 2v2 so that means either luka scores, he lobs it or open 3pt shot. Lowe said wolves tried helping off derrick jones a lot but he made enough 3s and easier said than done with how the mavs spaced the floor. switching the pnr isnt an option when you play gobert/towns/conley and that's where I think celtics will have a better time preventing lobs. They can switch 1-4 and not get totally burnt.

[Xiao Yao You]

. Dallas is scoring 109.9 points per 100 possessions when Gobert is on the court in this series; that’s the rough equivalent of the Wizards’ 25th-ranked output in the regular season. But when Gobert is off the court, the Mavericks’ offensive rating rockets up to 127.4—five points better than the Celtics’ record-setting regular-season mark.

[Xiao Yao You]

The Mavericks are shooting a blistering 83 percent at the rim when Gobert is off the court, per PBP Stats.

[Xiao Yao You]

The facts as always tell a much different story than the narrative

[Im Still Ballin]

. Dallas is scoring 109.9 points per 100 possessions when Gobert is on the court in this series; that’s the rough equivalent of the Wizards’ 25th-ranked output in the regular season. But when Gobert is off the court, the Mavericks’ offensive rating rockets up to 127.4—five points better than the Celtics’ record-setting regular-season mark.


The Mavericks are shooting a blistering 83 percent at the rim when Gobert is off the court, per PBP Stats.

What game were these from? Was it after the entire five-game series?

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/5/30/24167795/rudy-gobert-minnesota-timberwolves-defense-luka-doncic

[ImKobe]

. Dallas is scoring 109.9 points per 100 possessions when Gobert is on the court in this series; that’s the rough equivalent of the Wizards’ 25th-ranked output in the regular season. But when Gobert is off the court, the Mavericks’ offensive rating rockets up to 127.4—five points better than the Celtics’ record-setting regular-season mark.

And they couldn't get stops with him on the court in crunch time. Same story as every other year.

[Xiao Yao You]

What game were these from? Was it after the entire five-game series?
First 4 games

[Im Still Ballin]

First 4 games

Fair enough. Gobert definitely held up his end of the bargain on defense in the first four games which is where the series was lost. Poor offensive play from Ant and Kat in the first three games is what did Minnesota in. You can critique Rudy's offense but that's a minor issue considering his role.

[Xiao Yao You]

Fair enough. Gobert definitely held up his end of the bargain on defense in the first four games which is where the series was lost. Poor offensive play from Ant and Kat in the first three games is what did Minnesota in. You can critique Rudy's offense but that's a minor issue considering his role.

Edwards has produced at a similar clip this postseason regardless of Gobert’s presence. He has scored 35 points per 100 possessions on 59 percent true shooting with Gobert in the playoffs, versus 36 points per 100 on 57 percent true shooting without him.

One reason Edwards still produces despite the presence of a paintbound big man is that Gobert generally compensates for his weaknesses by setting the best screens on the team. Look at how he flips the direction of his pick to free Edwards for a dagger midrange jumper late in Game 4.

Minnesota also grabs more offensive rebounds and draws many more fouls with Gobert on the court—two more hidden advantages that are reflected best by the on/off data. Those attributes aren’t sexy, but they show up on the scoreboard all the same.

[SATAN]

Replacing Toody with AD is an interesting thought experiment...

[beasted]

Gobert's offensive rebounds consistently declined the further that Minny advanced, which is probably his strongest trait on offense.

It's easy to neutralize most of what he provides on the offensive end in the playoffs.

[hold this L]

Rudy is a great elite talent, but the issue is in general relative to the NBA than him itself. Most top end paid players are all overpaid relative to their actual value, higher than 80% of them. He's nowhere near worth the supermax he got, but he'd be a fantastic option at 20 million/year on any contending team.

He also somehow became the scapegoat when the supposed two best players completely shat the bed when they needed to show up. Wolves lost the first two games by a combined total of 4 points where Edwards & pu$syKat shot like garbage.

[FKAri]

Fair enough. Gobert definitely held up his end of the bargain on defense in the first four games which is where the series was lost. Poor offensive play from Ant and Kat in the first three games is what did Minnesota in. You can critique Rudy's offense but that's a minor issue considering his role.

Absolutely. It felt like The Nuggets series was Ant's NBA finals. He was spent physically and emotionally. And KAT waited til game 4 to realize that he has better options than just shooting 3s.

[Kblaze8855]

https://i.ibb.co/7z1CWbg/IMG-8961.gif

[dankok8]

What is Gobert supposed to do when Luka beats his man off the dribble? If he comes close to Luka, the lob to Gafford/Lively is in the air over his head. If he backs off to stop the lob he gives Luka an easy 7-foot floater. It's a hell of a play to try and defend. Rudy is honestly what he is and maybe the best rim protector in the league. But it's so tough to play D in today's game. Anyone can be exposed badly.

[Xiao Yao You]

What is Gobert supposed to do when Luka beats his man off the dribble? If he comes close to Luka, the lob to Gafford/Lively is in the air over his head. If he backs off to stop the lob he gives Luka an easy 7-foot floater. It's a hell of a play to try and defend. Rudy is honestly what he is and maybe the best rim protector in the league. But it's so tough to play D in today's game. Anyone can be exposed badly.

And the rest of the wolves were exposed much more

[beasted]

And the rest of the wolves were exposed much more

Gobert was getting flambéed by Jokic in round 2, as well as in the Luka stepback gamewinner. I'm sure the rest of the Wolves didn't hold a fridge.

Defense takes a team effort against star players.

[sd3035]

You expect a big guy in his prime who is the DPOY, and has won 4 times in 7 years, to be more of a presence instead of getting torched regularly

If he didn't have all those awards people wouldn't really notice his mediocre defensive performance

[SATAN]

https://i.ibb.co/7z1CWbg/IMG-8961.gif

:roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

“You’re leaving him on Luka and Kyrie. I don’t think there’s a person in this planet, like ‘Hey, go guard Kyrie, go guard Luka, and good luck.’ Does Rudy change the game defensively? Absolutely,” Brunson added. “You drive past your defender, and you see Rudy back there, you don’t just [lay it in], you’re thinking of what I have to do to get this ball into the basket. He does things defensively which makes you think, but to ask him to go out there and switch?” – via BasketNews

[Charlie Sheen]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/5/30/24167795/rudy-gobert-minnesota-timberwolves-defense-luka-doncic



Gobert is the only Wolves starter with a positive point differential in the series, as Anthony Edwards and Karl-Anthony Towns have struggled to match Dallas’s star production.

These aren’t obscure statistics cherry-picked to paint a rosy picture of Gobert’s impact.

The bold is exactly what that is.

He is like the closer in baseball. A nice luxury to have... meaningless without a good pitching staff. Gobert might have been the reason their defense was amazing, but the rest of the team played great defense without Rudy until the WCF.

Rudy does not generate any points. His impact is dependent on having good to great defenders on the roster.

[Xiao Yao You]

The bold is exactly what that is.

He is like the closer in baseball. A nice luxury to have... meaningless without a good pitching staff. Gobert might have been the reason their defense was amazing, but the rest of the team played great defense without Rudy until the WCF.

Rudy does not generate any points. His impact is dependent on having good to great defenders on the roster.

The facts tell a different story of course

[Edwards has produced at a similar clip this postseason regardless of Gobert’s presence. He has scored 35 points per 100 possessions on 59 percent true shooting with Gobert in the playoffs, versus 36 points per 100 on 57 percent true shooting without him.

One reason Edwards still produces despite the presence of a paintbound big man is that Gobert generally compensates for his weaknesses by setting the best screens on the team. Look at how he flips the direction of his pick to free Edwards for a dagger midrange jumper late in Game 4.