Vince Carter: Kobe Bryant should be in the GOAT conservation

[eliteballer]

https://sports.yahoo.com/vince-carter-kobe-bryant-goat-004438903.html

[gengiskhan]

https://sports.yahoo.com/vince-carter-kobe-bryant-goat-004438903.html

A 6'6" AI volume shooter at best.

Not Top 10 material Let alone GOAT

Top 8 to 9 GOATs are pretty much locked and front loaded.

Kobe is Top 12 to Top 15 at Best.

I would never ever put ahead of ATGs like Moses or Dunkin or Big O.

Kobe is ATG but the most overrated ATG ever in that list.

This recency bias and deadly tragedy bias need to stop.

Many ATGs weren't lucky enough to play for NBA winningest franchise LAL and win multiple rings.

[Neal Romer]

What conversation?

Lebron’s the GOAT. There is no conversation.

[John8204]

I always feel like the line is Mikan/Bryant

Kobe the best you can't say is the GOAT
Mikan is the worst player you can call the GOAT

For his generation he was the best but his generation was really close together and he had so many bad seasons. Shaq kinda ruined his legacy but he also ruined Kobe's by leaving.

[plowking]

Why do Kobe fans think its a slight on him when people name him anywhere from 8-12?

He is great. One of the best ever. He just isn't better than Mike, Bron, Shaq, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, and a few others.

Is he a bigger cultural icon than a lot of them? Sure. But he isn't a better basketball player.

[iamgine]

I thought he's already in the GOAT convo among people.

[Wardell Curry]

Why do Kobe fans think its a slight on him when people name him anywhere from 8-12?

He is great. One of the best ever. He just isn't better than Mike, Bron, Shaq, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, and a few others.

Is he a bigger cultural icon than a lot of them? Sure. But he isn't a better basketball player.

The same reason that LeBron takes it as an insult to be called #2. Irrational and delusional.

[iamgine]

tbh Vince's reason is sort of retarded. :lol

“I don’t understand why,” Carter said when asked Bryant should be in the discussion and why he isn’t. “The approach of MJ was just like Kobe. He looked at the blueprint of MJ and he said, ‘I’m gonna do that and more.’ And he’s won, it’s proven. Why is he not in that conversation?”

[Real Men Wear Green]

Players generally don't take these discussiion as seriously or engage in them as frequently as fans on message boards. Very possible Carter was having a "damn, Kobe died way too son" moment. I have had moments like that and I don't know him at all, and didn't like him (respected him, but I'm a Celtics fan). If I didn't think about the subject deeply and praising a guy was more important to me than making a logical argument I could see myself saying something like this. That's why we have so many examples of the same player making contradictory statements: they often go with what they're feeling at the moment and it doesn't truly matter.

[kawhileonard2]

What conversation?

Lebron’s the GOAT. There is no conversation.

Dude lost in round 1 with a stacked and healthy team. A guy in his own era that came in after him has as many titles in less years and beat him head to head more. He couldn’t even separate himself from guys in his own era.

[ImKobe]

He clearly is in the GOAT convo, and the nerds are still mad about it lol. No one cares about your vorps and per numbers. He brought the greatest NBA franchise 5 of their titles with 3 of them as the best player on the team. Many people have him as their GOAT or at least in their top 5 and he earned that.

[1987_Lakers]

He clearly is in the GOAT convo, and the nerds are still mad about it lol. No one cares about your vorps and per numbers. He brought the greatest NBA franchise 5 of their titles with 3 of them as the best player on the team. Many people have him as their GOAT or at least in their top 5 and he earned that.

:roll:

[tpols]

Kobe is the GOAT. He was Jordan with a better handle and left hand. Same high motor, same ruthĺesnness, same skill and freak athleticism... Kobe just had a more developed modern game.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe is the GOAT. He was Jordan with a better handle and left hand. Same high motor, same ruthĺesnness, same skill and freak athleticism... Kobe just had a more developed modern game.
Facts.

[StrongLurk]

MJ, Lebron, Kareem in that order are the goats of goats. Slot whoever the hell you want 4-10 out of the remaining guys - Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe.

Kobe has no chance at breaking into the top 3.

[Neal Romer]

Dude lost in round 1 with a stacked and healthy team. A guy in his own era that came in after him has as many titles in less years and beat him head to head more. He couldn’t even separate himself from guys in his own era.


Hey, quick favor to ask of you, would you mind bringing your ass over here so that I CAN KICK IT??? :banghead::mad::banghead::mad::banghead:

[dankok8]

We know NBA players judge the GOAT based on skill set and how difficult said player was to play head to head.

So Kobe being included there isn't strange at all despite his lack of major accomplishments.

[sd3035]

He would have been had the rape controversy not existed

If you look at the timeline, the NBA was pumping him up as next Jordan and rigging series in his favor until that moment, then they abandoned him and rigged the Detroit series in favor of the Pistons. They were desperate to find the next big thing so they went all in with Lebron but it was mostly a failure. Imagine losing all those finals on superteams with unprecedented ref help

[Soundwave]

Why do Kobe fans think its a slight on him when people name him anywhere from 8-12?

He is great. One of the best ever. He just isn't better than Mike, Bron, Shaq, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, and a few others.

Is he a bigger cultural icon than a lot of them? Sure. But he isn't a better basketball player.

He has a case to say he's as good/better than Shaq, Bird, Wilt, and a "few others" IMO.

[Soundwave]

Kobe is the GOAT. He was Jordan with a better handle and left hand. Same high motor, same ruthĺesnness, same skill and freak athleticism... Kobe just had a more developed modern game.

Possibly sure, though Jordan had no issue going left anyway, but I would say Kobe is behind in

1.) Basketball I.Q. ... Jordan had better I.Q., Kobe often could get lost in the forest, the range on his J was both a blessing and a curse. Because he had it, he would take it more, but that could lead to lower quality shot %. Also think Jordan's time as a college player at UNC gave him better fundamental understanding of the game.

2.) Kobe was not quite as good athletically. Jordan especially first 3 peat is a bit quicker, and definitely more explosive as a leaper, agility in the air, bigger hands, etc. Kobe couldn't quite do the same stuff in the air.

3.) I think Jordan was a better leader. Kobe took some of the "be cold to your teammates" stuff too far, while MJ had a similar personality, I think he knew when to back off much better. Jordan wouldn't have gotten into feuds with Shaq. He wouldn't sit next to a teammate in the locker room for months and refuse to speak to them. Stuff like that was a bit over the line. Kobe would've lost his mind if Rodman was behaving the way he was while they were in a prime championship window, Jordan knew how to the handle that much better.

[Da_Realist]

Possibly sure, though Jordan had no issue going left anyway, but I would say Kobe is behind in

1.) Basketball I.Q. ... Jordan had better I.Q., Kobe often could get lost in the forest, the range on his J was both a blessing and a curse. Because he had it, he would take it more, but that could lead to lower quality shot %. Also think Jordan's time as a college player at UNC gave him better fundamental understanding of the game.

2.) Kobe was not quite as good athletically. Jordan especially first 3 peat is a bit quicker, and definitely more explosive as a leaper, agility in the air, bigger hands, etc. Kobe couldn't quite do the same stuff in the air.

3.) I think Jordan was a better leader. Kobe took some of the "be cold to your teammates" stuff too far, while MJ had a similar personality, I think he knew when to back off much better. Jordan wouldn't have gotten into feuds with Shaq. He wouldn't sit next to a teammate in the locker room for months and refuse to speak to them. Stuff like that was a bit over the line. Kobe would've lost his mind if Rodman was behaving the way he was while they were in a prime championship window, Jordan knew how to the handle that much better.

MJ's highs were higher
Kobe's lows were lower
MJ's average was better

[Nowoco]

There is absolutely no argument for Kobe to be even top 8 let alone anywhere higher.

No-one seriously suggested this until he died. Whilst its somewhat understandable that people now want to overrate him for that reason, it doesnt make it right or correct.

If Kobe stans get offended when people say this truth, it's a they problem.

[SATAN]

How the hell could anyone seriously think he's the best ever when he couldn't surpass the guy he tried to be like?

[SouBeachTalents]

How the hell could anyone seriously think he's the best ever when he couldn't surpass the guy he tried to be like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mavBH9eFaM0&t=147s

[Hey Yo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mavBH9eFaM0&t=147s

:roll:

[gengiskhan]

Why do Kobe fans think its a slight on him when people name him anywhere from 8-12?

He is great. One of the best ever. He just isn't better than Mike, Bron, Shaq, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, and a few others.

Is he a bigger cultural icon than a lot of them? Sure. But he isn't a better basketball player.

Top 10 GOATs are too front loaded, top heavy and over accomplished. plain and simple.

facts are facts. Kobe fans and Laker fans must understand this. Being in top 15 itself is a huge accomplishment.

These Top 10 -15 guys are ATGs and once in a generation talent. Kobe belongs there.

[FilmyCogTurner]

I think a Kobe argument can be made for anyone but Jordan.

[And1AllDay]

Kobe is the GOAT. He was Jordan with a better handle and left hand. Same high motor, same ruthĺesnness, same skill and freak athleticism... Kobe just had a more developed modern game.

1a kobe
1b bran

[gengiskhan]

MJ, Lebron, Kareem in that order are the goats of goats. Slot whoever the hell you want 4-10 out of the remaining guys - Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe.

Kobe has no chance at breaking into the top 3.

Kobe aint top 10 ever period.

He aint even a top 3 Lakers ever.

Magic, Kareem and Shaq have him beat there too.

You don't just throw any great player into Top 3 GOATs or even Top 8 GOATs. You gotta do some serious justification as to why he even belongs there.

Just rings alone won't do it. Horry has 7 rings too.

Russell got 11 rings. He can comfortably be downgraded to 9th spot outside of top 7 after scrutiny and discourse.

[BallsOut]

Real recognize real. Kobe is top 5 easily. Only the espn stat nerds who drool over box scores think otherwise. I watched him play basketball ain’t no 5 players better than Kobe ever.

Jordan
Russell
Duncan
Bryant
Kareem
Bird/Magic

[Soundwave]

Real recognize real. Kobe is top 5 easily. Only the espn stat nerds who drool over box scores think otherwise. I watched him play basketball ain’t no 5 players better than Kobe ever.

Jordan
Russell
Duncan
Bryant
Kareem
Bird/Magic

There can be truth to that, Kobe has an argument as possibly the 2nd greatest scorer and 2nd most "skilled" player, he could do mostly everything Jordan could do, maybe not quite as athletic, but had most of the same abilities plus longer range on the jumper.

Basketball I.Q. wasn't quite as good though and that can be a big differentiator ... it's not even that Kobe wasn't a massive student of the game, he definitely was, he maybe obsessed over basketball even more than Jordan or LeBron did, it's just he could sometimes shoot himself out of games.

I hate to say it too but I think Magic/Bird are a little overrated in the GOAT conversations because of their marketing importance to the NBA (ie: the NBA's exploding popularity in the 1980s). I don't think it's a flat out given that for example Bird was better than Kobe or Magic better than Kobe.

[gengiskhan]

There can be truth to that, Kobe has an argument as possibly the 2nd greatest scorer and 2nd most "skilled" player, he could do mostly everything Jordan could do, maybe not quite as athletic, but had most of the same abilities plus longer range on the jumper.

Basketball I.Q. wasn't quite as good though and that can be a big differentiator ... it's not even that Kobe wasn't a massive student of the game, he definitely was, he maybe obsessed over basketball even more than Jordan or LeBron did, it's just he could sometimes shoot himself out of games.

I hate to say it too but I think Magic/Bird are a little overrated in the GOAT conversations because of their marketing importance to the NBA (ie: the NBA's exploding popularity in the 1980s). I don't think it's a flat out given that for example Bird was better than Kobe or Magic better than Kobe.

what a load of carp!

Wilt led NBA as a scoring champ 7 straight year.

I am not even sure if MJ is the best scorer ever against Wilt. Wilt literally ave 50-PPG. MJ might never do that if they played in same era.

Bird was incredibly efficient scorer compared to Kobe. Bird pulled down like 12+ RPG with 30 PPG game. and this is lot more impressive than shot jock and ball hog to 35 ppg at 44%FG and shooting your team out of playoffs contention.

Kobe is just 6'6" AI imo. he just chucked, chucked and chucked and destroyed team chemistry and team offense.

the only time 4 times scoring champ AI got to NBA Finals is when he was given a dominant big man in Mutombo.

and kobe got to finals because of dominant big men like Gasol and bynum etc. If LAL arent front loaded with NBAs best, kobe aint even making to playoffs. How is he 2nd best scorer?

that 40-44%FG aint fooling no defenses for long if you dont got NBAs best dominant big men on your own team.

[Soundwave]

what a load of carp!

Wilt led NBA as a scoring champ 7 straight year.

I am not even sure if MJ is the best scorer ever against Wilt. Wilt literally ave 50-PPG. MJ might never do that if they played in same era.

Bird was incredibly efficient scorer compared to Kobe. Bird pulled down like 12+ RPG with 30 PPG game. and this is lot more impressive than shot jock and ball hog to 35 ppg at 44%FG and shooting your team out of playoffs contention.

Kobe is just 6'6" AI imo. he just chucked, chucked and chucked and destroyed team chemistry and team offense.

the only time 4 times scoring champ AI got to NBA Finals is when he was given a dominant big man in Mutombo.

and kobe got to finals because of dominant big men like Gasol and bynum etc. If LAL arent front loaded with NBAs best, kobe aint even making to playoffs. How is he 2nd best scorer?

that 40-44%FG aint fooling no defenses for long if you dont got NBAs best dominant big men on your own team.


Kobe Bryant would score 50 ppg in the 60s if a coach let him off the leash and just go wild, lets be real.

When Kobe was on, his offensive ability was borderline frightening, maybe even moreso than MJ in a way.

People can hate on him, but Kobe was an immense talent even when you look at him at age 19/20, unpolished, he oozed talent, it was just ridiculous.

Gasol was a good player but not someone I'd classify as "dominant", and certainly not Andrew Bynum (lol).

A 6'6 Iverson with a better work ethic and better defense is basically one of the greatest players ever too, lol.

[Wardell Curry]

Well I guess since a former NBA player said it, it must be true. NBA players regularly give expert level analysis and their takes are always spot on. So good. Vince is a very good analyst. Kobe is the GOAT.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well I guess since a former NBA player said it, it must be true. NBA players regularly give expert level analysis and their takes are always spot on. So good. Vince is a very good analyst. Kobe is the GOAT.
I get your point of course but in the flip side Carter isn't stupid. Giving a deep answer to this question that he will hand out every time and treat like gospel just isn't important to him.

[Wardell Curry]

On a serious non troll note, yes I agree, Vince Carter is definitely not stupid. You can tell by listening to him for 30 seconds.

[SATAN]

Real recognize real.
https://img.izismile.com/img/img2/20090729/super_nerd_07.jpg

:oldlol: