Best Criticism of Modern NBA by Cuttino Mobley

[fsvr54]

A REAL ball player, speaking BIG FACTS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7hFAhX5ByM&t=5s

[jayfan]

Good stuff.

[Im Still Ballin]

I think what's missing from the game is the mid-range shot and post-up from the roleplayers/non-stars. Guys like Jason Terry and Sam Cassell were deadeye mid-range shooters and I fear if they played today they'd be relegated to off-the-dribble and spot-up threes.

[GimmeThat]

all the players went IPO, only there's no requirement of needing funding from multiple professions as long as the total funding amount met the requirement.

[Wardell Curry]

Without elite athletic defenders, people underestimate how incredibly difficult it is to guard players in today's league. It has nothing to do with players being dumber, lol. Another old head that doesn't know what he's talking about.

[GimmeThat]

Without elite athletic defenders, people underestimate how incredibly difficult it is to guard players in today's league. It has nothing to do with players being dumber, lol. Another old head that doesn't know what he's talking about.

when a player is labeled as a draft bust, quite certain the label dumb comes along with it.

[bdonovan]

Makes great points. I wonder why more ex NBA players don't analyze logically like this.

[FKAri]

It's the analyticks fault! :oldlol:

[jayfan]

Without elite athletic defenders, people underestimate how incredibly difficult it is to guard players in today's league. It has nothing to do with players being dumber, lol. Another old head that doesn't know what he's talking about.


Cuttino wasn't criticizing defenses, he was criticizing offensive coaching/scheming/strategy in today's game.

[3ba11]

5:29 mark Cuttino talks about the attrition battle - wearing down defenders so they have less capacity for offense - so they have less capacity to "go off" offensively.

I've always said that today's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity for offense, while previous eras moved the ball off post action or motion offenses - the zippy ball movement and exploitation of mismatches wears down a defense, thereby leaving less capacity for offense.

The game is an attrition battle and the best defense is a good offense and a good offense is defined as one that wears down opponents more than it gets worn down (applying more pressure than it faces)

[GimmeThat]

I've always said that today's ball-dominance lets a defense rest,


not really, when you don't have an answer on stopping a guy, it's extra pressure on making your shots because you know the opposing team has an anomaly, when you can't stop the ball dominant guy's attack in the painted area, it's extra pressure on making your transition defense

[Im Still Ballin]

5:29 mark Cuttino talks about the attrition battle - wearing down defenders so they have less capacity for offense - so they have less capacity to "go off" offensively.

I've always said that today's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity for offense, while previous eras moved the ball off post action or motion offenses - the zippy ball movement and exploitation of mismatches wears down a defense, thereby leaving less capacity for offense.

The game is an attrition battle and the best defense is a good offense and a good offense is defined as one that wears down opponents more than it gets worn down (applying more pressure than it faces)

I agree. It's also important to note that the PPP (points per possession) value of a shot/play isn't the only thing that matters. Frequency of baskets made also matters because it's not just about the value of the current possession, but also the next one. It's a fact that teams score better on possessions following missed shots by the opponent.

Shooting threes will naturally lead to more missed shots. 4/10 from three is 12 points as is 6/10 from two. But you're coming up empty on two extra possessions with the three-point shot. A skilled mid-range shooter or post-up player can reliably put the ball in the basket, force the opposition to inbound the ball, and face a half-court defense.

And situationally in the clutch? A mid-range or post-up shot is a premium asset.

[GimmeThat]

I agree. It's also important to note that the PPP (points per possession) value of a shot/play isn't the only thing that matters. Frequency of baskets made also matters because it's not just about the value of the current possession, but also the next one.

quite certain that's called a bench and proper rotation

[warriorfan]

It's the analyticks fault! :oldlol:

what did he exactly say that was so laugh worthy?

do you really think it’s far fetched of a notion to say that today’s analytics have steered players towards specific skill sets instead of developing a more well rounded game?

[GimmeThat]

do you really think it’s far fetched of a notion to say that today’s analytics have steered players towards specific skill sets instead of developing a more well rounded game?

It is. It's an attitude problem. If you look at the basketball court as a place to be physical, to express violent behaviors and thoughts, you won't ever be more than some dummies with a few skill sets looking for a way to make headlines while disregarding human life.

[SATAN]

A REAL ball player, speaking BIG FACTS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7hFAhX5ByM&t=5s

You are 5'8.

[fsvr54]

It is. It's an attitude problem. If you look at the basketball court as a place to be physical, to express violent behaviors and thoughts, you won't ever be more than some dummies with a few skill sets looking for a way to make headlines while disregarding human life.

Lay off the meth-pipe, bub

[fsvr54]

You are 5'8.

Irrelevant

I'm 5'7", by the way ;).

[Overdrive]

I agree. It's also important to note that the PPP (points per possession) value of a shot/play isn't the only thing that matters. Frequency of baskets made also matters because it's not just about the value of the current possession, but also the next one. It's a fact that teams score better on possessions following missed shots by the opponent.

Shooting threes will naturally lead to more missed shots. 4/10 from three is 12 points as is 6/10 from two. But you're coming up empty on two extra possessions with the three-point shot. A skilled mid-range shooter or post-up player can reliably put the ball in the basket, force the opposition to inbound the ball, and face a half-court defense.

And situationally in the clutch? A mid-range or post-up shot is a premium asset.

That's the biggest thing that often get's left out of analytics. While TS% might be the same misses off of long ranged shots lead to way more fast break chances and as you said those 2 extra possesions with a higher chance to run a break will actually tire the team down while the on paper scored the same.

If you don't want to tire yourself in a game like this you stop defending and just try to outscore. So it becomes a battle of who's hotter from outside and that's what the modern NBA often looks like.

[GimmeThat]

If you don't want to tire yourself in a game like this you stop defending and just try to outscore. So it becomes a battle of who's hotter from outside and that's what the modern NBA often looks like.

if you draw a line from the corner 3 point line to the center of the basket, make a circle of it, elevate the floor based on the extended 3 point line and thus create a completed picture of a half oval pyramid. that ought to be your desireable shot selection.

[90sgoat]

I agree. It's also important to note that the PPP (points per possession) value of a shot/play isn't the only thing that matters. Frequency of baskets made also matters because it's not just about the value of the current possession, but also the next one. It's a fact that teams score better on possessions following missed shots by the opponent.

Shooting threes will naturally lead to more missed shots. 4/10 from three is 12 points as is 6/10 from two. But you're coming up empty on two extra possessions with the three-point shot. A skilled mid-range shooter or post-up player can reliably put the ball in the basket, force the opposition to inbound the ball, and face a half-court defense.

And situationally in the clutch? A mid-range or post-up shot is a premium asset.

Well said, maybe worth remembering that the analytics revolution began before there was widespread play tracking data such as SportsVU. Play tracking has shown that players like Dirk, MJ and Shai are extremely efficient from mid-range.

Morey-ball and the like was not based on play tracking, but on mathematical analysis of aggregate numbers.

This is why imo we have seen so many Morey-ball/D'Antoni teams get great regular seasons but flame out in the playoffs.

A very similar thing happened in poker, with these online guys winning huge, but almost never being able to win the WSOP or big tourneys.

It was like that in poker too, the strategy used to win over 100.000 poker hands, wasn't the same that was needed when you had to look your opponent in the eye on the finals table and play them again and again.

[FKAri]

Well said, maybe worth remembering that the analytics revolution began before there was widespread play tracking data such as SportsVU. Play tracking has shown that players like Dirk, MJ and Shai are extremely efficient from mid-range.

Morey-ball and the like was not based on play tracking, but on mathematical analysis of aggregate numbers.

This is why imo we have seen so many Morey-ball/D'Antoni teams get great regular seasons but flame out in the playoffs.

A very similar thing happened in poker, with these online guys winning huge, but almost never being able to win the WSOP or big tourneys.

It was like that in poker too, the strategy used to win over 100.000 poker hands, wasn't the same that was needed when you had to look your opponent in the eye on the finals table and play them again and again.

GTO completely revolutionized and took over poker.

[90sgoat]

GTO completely revolutionized and took over poker.

*online poker

Not disagreeing and as the older guys retired more and more of the live poker scene probably consisted of online players in hats and sunglasses.

I'm saying that "game theory optimal" (looked it up) poker gives you the most rewards at relatively lower stakes, where you don't go tilting or feel the pressure as much.

No one is a robot and like in basketball, the playoffs are different, the finals are different. The final table is different.