Ray Allen was a terrible choker

[iamgine]

Playoff:

2008 vs Cavs 32.8 FG% 16.7 3Pt%

2009 vs Orlando 34.4 FG% 19 3pt%

2010 vs Lakers (minus game 2) 31.4 FG% 13.3 3pt%

How are you one of the greatest shooter ever but can just suddenly go cold like this for a whole series multiple times with a great team. :lol

[HoopsNY]

Playoff:

2008 vs Cavs 32.8 FG% 16.7 3Pt%

2009 vs Orlando 34.4 FG% 19 3pt%

2010 vs Lakers (minus game 2) 31.4 FG% 13.3 3pt%

How are you one of the greatest shooter ever but can just suddenly go cold like this for a whole series multiple times with a great team. :lol

Probably because he was already 32-34 by then and past his prime. Allen was pretty clutch and a big game performer IIRC from '99-'05. Just look at his numbers from those years. He put up 25/5/5/1 on 48/44/89% splits (60% TS%).

You wanted the ball in Allen's hands back then. And that was largely the height of the defensive era, including the lockout season in '99.

[warriorfan]

Probably because he was already 32-34 by then and past his prime. Allen was pretty clutch and a big game performer IIRC from '99-'05. Just look at his numbers from those years. He put up 25/5/5/1 on 48/44/89% splits (60% TS%).

You wanted the ball in Allen's hands back then. And that was largely the height of the defensive era, including the lockout season in '99.

and the three teams in op were all great defensive teams

[iamgine]

Probably because he was already 32-34 by then and past his prime. Allen was pretty clutch and a big game performer IIRC from '99-'05. Just look at his numbers from those years. He put up 25/5/5/1 on 48/44/89% splits (60% TS%).

You wanted the ball in Allen's hands back then. And that was largely the height of the defensive era, including the lockout season in '99.

Before Boston Ray didn't make that many playoff. Was great in 01 but not that good vs Spurs in 05.

[HoopsNY]

Before Boston Ray didn't make that many playoff. Was great in 01 but not that good vs Spurs in 05.

The sample size is still 7 total series from 1999-05. We can't just ignore it, especially when the sample you're focusing on is only 3 series.

You're isolating the bad ones, some of which you haven't mentioned, but you're also not looking at some of the other good ones from that same time period.

2008 vs. DET: 18 PPG on 59% TS%
2008 vs. LAL: 20 PPG on 66% TS%

2009 vs. CHI: 23 PPG on 63% TS%

2010 vs. MIA: 19 PPG on 69% TS%
2010 vs. ORL: 16 PPG on 58% TS%

2011 vs. NYK: 22 PPG on 76% TS%
2011 vs. BOS: 16 PPG on 66% TS%

This isn't some anomaly. Allen was an all time great shooter and he proved it many times. And just because we saw his PPG dip a little wasn't indicative of his scoring, but because of the system and number of players sharing the ball.

[GimmeThat]

back then PG and SG didn't really run PnR

[Real Men Wear Green]

2013 isn't long enough ago for you to get away with this kind of bullshit. (https://youtu.be/jNPPY-avQLY?si=7h0NgU77qPF88W_K)

[iamgine]

The sample size is still 7 total series from 1999-05. We can't just ignore it, especially when the sample you're focusing on is only 3 series.

You're isolating the bad ones, some of which you haven't mentioned, but you're also not looking at some of the other good ones.

2008 vs. DET: 18 PPG on 59% TS%
2008 vs. LAL: 20 PPG on 66% TS%

2009 vs. CHI: 23 PPG on 63% TS%

2010 vs. MIA: 19 PPG on 69% TS%
2010 vs. ORL: 16 PPG on 58% TS%

2011 vs. NYK: 22 PPG on 76% TS%
2011 vs. BOS: 16 PPG on 66% TS%

This isn't some anomaly. Allen was an all time great shooter and he proved it many times. And just because we saw his PPG dip a little wasn't indicative of his scoring, but because of the system and number of players sharing the ball.
He was good in Boston. It's just that every season he'd go super cold for a whole series. Do you want a great shooter who can randomly cost you a series every season with his performance?

[L.Kizzle]

Playoff:

2008 vs Cavs 32.8 FG% 16.7 3Pt%

2009 vs Orlando 34.4 FG% 19 3pt%

2010 vs Lakers (minus game 2) 31.4 FG% 13.3 3pt%

How are you one of the greatest shooter ever but can just suddenly go cold like this for a whole series multiple times with a great team. :lol
Reggie, Bird, Klay, Steph, KD and many more great shooters have had bad shooting series. Not sure what this is trying to prove?

[HoopsNY]

He was good in Boston. It's just that every season he'd go super cold for a whole series. Do you want a great shooter who can randomly cost you a series every season with his performance?

Given the longevity of his career, it's to be expected. But Allen was clutch for the better part of his career. Because he had some series where he didn't shoot that well, usually against elite defensive teams, isn't indicative of his ability. Anyone who watched him from 1997-2006 saw how clutch he was in both the regular season and playoffs.

[iamgine]

Reggie, Bird, Klay, Steph, KD and many more great shooters have had bad shooting series. Not sure what this is trying to prove?

Bad is one thing. This is ultra bad. Series costing bad. When he's not even the first option.

[iamgine]

Given the longevity of his career, it's to be expected. But Allen was clutch for the better part of his career. Because he had some series where he didn't shoot that well, usually against elite defensive teams, isn't indicative of his ability. Anyone who watched him from 1997-2006 saw how clutch he was in both the regular season and playoffs.

It's to be expected he'd go super cold for a whole series for multiple years? Not sure I expect that.

He didn't even make many playoff before Boston.

[HoopsNY]

It's to be expected he'd go super cold for a whole series for multiple years? Not sure I expect that.

He didn't even make many playoff before Boston.

This literally happened with a lot of great shooters. As L.Kizzle mentioned, it happened with guys like Klay or even guys like Peja. Allan Houston was like that, so was Hornacek. Even Reggie had some series where he didn't shoot well. How would Ray Allen doing the same be any different?

I think the reason why you might be focused on him is because he was on two championship teams, but Klay was a champion and guys like Reggie, Hornacek, and Houston all made the finals (Hornacek 2x).

[FKAri]

And LeBron won with this choker on his team? Incredible!

[tpols]

This literally happened with a lot of great shooters. As L.Kizzle mentioned, it happened with guys like Klay or even guys like Peja. Allan Houston was like that, so was Hornacek. Even Reggie had some series where he didn't shoot well. How would Ray Allen doing the same be any different?

I think the reason why you might be focused on him is because he was on two championship teams, but Klay was a champion and guys like Reggie, Hornacek, and Houston all made the finals (Hornacek 2x).

Can you name a series where Curry or Reggie shot 16% or 13% from 3pt range? Thats... next level bad.

The 2016 Finals were the worst series of Currys career and he shot 40% from 3. And that was as 1st option facing hard doubles the entire time.

13%?

I'm not complaining because I'm a Kobe fan and if Ray even shot 25% in the 2010 Finals given how close the margin was Lakers would've lost.

[Da_Realist]

He was still respected. When the Celtics needed someone to ice the game and secure a 3-1 lead against the Lakers in the 2008 Finals, they gave the ball to Ray Allen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8sY12lFn98&t=137s). Not Paul Pierce. Not KG.

In 2012, when the Heat needed to tie Game 6, they put in Ray Allen and his 17% shooting or whatever it was.

[Hey Yo]

2013 ^^^^ was Ray's first season in Miami

[SouBeachTalents]

Can you name a series where Curry or Reggie shot 16% or 13% from 3pt range? Thats... next level bad.

The 2016 Finals were the worst series of Currys career and he shot 40% from 3. And that was as 1st option facing hard doubles the entire time.

13%?

I'm not complaining because I'm a Kobe fan and if Ray even shot 25% in the 2010 Finals given how close the margin was Lakers would've lost.
I've got to agree with tpols here. Look, in the grand scheme of things, is how someone shot in a handful of games clearly past their prime that big a deal? No. But that doesn't mean it isn't pretty shocking that a guy who imo is the 2nd greatest shooter ever was failing to connect on even 20% of his 3's in multiple key series.

And it wasn't on some miniscule sample size like you'd find for a bad Dirk or Bird shooting series, he was attempting 25+ 3's in these series.

[ImKobe]

He hit arguably the greatest shot in Finals history (other than Kyrie's) and was generally a consistent Playoff performer. In fact, his shooting splits are almost identical from his RS to his POs career.

You could make a case for him as the true FMVP of that '08 series, but I still think it's KG because of his defense.

[HoopsNY]

Can you name a series where Curry or Reggie shot 16% or 13% from 3pt range? Thats... next level bad.

The 2016 Finals were the worst series of Currys career and he shot 40% from 3. And that was as 1st option facing hard doubles the entire time.

13%?

I'm not complaining because I'm a Kobe fan and if Ray even shot 25% in the 2010 Finals given how close the margin was Lakers would've lost.

Reggie vs. BOS '03: 16% 3pt%

No one is saying Allen is on the level of Steph. And Ray didn't shoot 13%. Notice the OP said "minus game 2". It doesn't work that way.

[HoopsNY]

I've got to agree with tpols here. Look, in the grand scheme of things, is how someone shot in a handful of games clearly past their prime that big a deal? No. But that doesn't mean it isn't pretty shocking that a guy who imo is the 2nd greatest shooter ever was failing to connect on even 20% of his 3's in multiple key series.

And it wasn't on some miniscule sample size like you'd find for a bad Dirk or Bird shooting series, he was attempting 25+ 3's in these series.

So because he has 2 series shooting 17% and 19%, that somehow means what exactly? Let's look at some great shooters and their performances with shooting <20% in the playoffs for a series.

Allen: 2x
Reggie: 1x
Peja: 4x***
Hornacek: 4x***
Houston: 1x
Klay: 0x
Dame: 2x
Korver: 1x
Dirk: 5x
Price: 1x
Ellis: 3x***
Steph: 0x

***These guys had low volume but did have at least 1 series where they averaged around 2 3PA and shot woefully.

Ray has 2 series shooting under 20%. The first he had about 3.4 attempts. It was the 2009 series where he averaged 6 attempts.

[tpols]

Reggie vs. BOS '03: 16% 3pt%

No one is saying Allen is on the level of Steph. And Ray didn't shoot 13%. Notice the OP said "minus game 2". It doesn't work that way.

:lol

Cmon bro... Reggie was in his late 30s averaging like 10 ppg at that time. He was totally out of his prime.

Ray was in his early 30s and in great shape. He was literally in perfect physical shape. It's odd that he shot THAT poorly in that Boston '08-'10 run. I didn't even realize he shot that bad.

His %'s would make Westbrook blush. And he was one of the greatest shooters ever. At 3rd or even 4th option. Derek Fisher was guarding him. I remember they put Kobe on Rondo.

I wouldn't say he choked... but he clearly was playing at an all time low level for his standard.

Can you imagine if Curry shot 15% from 3 in the 2016 Finals with how badly he already eviscerated for his performance? That makes for like... a 30 for 30 documentary special.

[HoopsNY]

:lol

Cmon bro... Reggie was in his late 30s averaging like 10 ppg at that time. He was totally out of his prime.

Ray was in his early 30s and in great shape. He was literally in perfect physical shape. It's odd that he shot THAT poorly in that Boston '08-'10 run. I didn't even realize he shot that bad.

His %'s would make Westbrook blush. And he was one of the greatest shooters ever. At 3rd or even 4th option. Derek Fisher was guarding him. I remember they put Kobe on Rondo.

I wouldn't say he choked... but he clearly was playing at an all time low level for his standard.

Can you imagine if Curry shot 15% from 3 in the 2016 Finals with how badly he already eviscerated for his performance? That makes for like... a 30 for 30 documentary special.

Yea, but this wasn't the norm is my point. Reggie was 37, sure, but he still shot 36% during the regular season. And then the next season, at age 38, he shot 40%.

Using Curry is a bad example because he's simply the greatest shooter of all time. If people were trying to say Ray > Steph, then you'd have a point. But no one says that.

I also think you're dwelling too much on a couple of series. You mentioned he shot THAT poorly from 2008-10, but he didn't. Allen shot 38% from three during that stretch and had a TS% of 57% during the playoffs.