Do you miss guards/smaller players posting up a lot?

[Im Still Ballin]

Came across a video from hoopsvision talking about some college teams succeeding on offense by having guards and forwards backing down players from the perimeter. Illinois had the third-best offense in all of NCAA D1 basketball according to Kenpom.

Guys like Magic Johnson, Gary Payton, Mark Jackson, and Charles Barkley used to do this a lot. The NBA introduced the five seconds back-to-the-basket rule to combat these plays. I think the rule specifies it only applies below the free-throw line extended. Jalen Brunson did it to great effect in college and still does it today.

Before the league tightened up handchecking, using your backside/body to protect the ball was standard when dribbling. You don't see it as much now because it's harder to defend without fouling and easier to dribble/handle the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy8bYXYjrc0&ab_channel=hoopvision68

[warriorfan]

Came across a video from hoopsvision talking about some college teams succeeding on offense by having guards and forwards backing down players from the perimeter. Illinois had the third-best offense in all of NCAA D1 basketball according to Kenpom.

Guys like Magic Johnson, Gary Payton, Mark Jackson, and Charles Barkley used to do this a lot. The NBA introduced the five seconds back-to-the-basket rule to combat these plays. I think the rule specifies it only applies below the free-throw line extended. Jalen Brunson did it to great effect in college and still does it today.

Before the league tightened up handchecking, using your backside/body to protect the ball was standard when dribbling. You don't see it as much now because it's harder to defend without fouling and easier to dribble/handle the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy8bYXYjrc0&ab_channel=hoopvision68

Yes, when guys see clips of that and go “he has no left hand!” you know they have no idea what they are talking about

[Kblaze8855]

I just don’t get Why they changed it for purely cosmetic reasons when people can just stand there and jab step for nine seconds or dribble through their legs back-and-forth as if that’s impressive. It’s a completely needless limitation that is filtered down into making the lower levels weaker because everybody wants to emulate how NBA players play when most of them won’t get close. All you get is players missing a skill they could use because the NBA doesn’t want it.

Not like a lot of those guys weren’t exciting. talking about Jordan Drexler magic Mark Jackson and plenty of people with a lot of flair to their games. Go watch Gary Payton play an undersized lineup. He was like 190 but we go from facing up to quick and back and punish people way bigger than he was. Just an aspect of the game that is missing. Not like it doesn’t work.

Luka is a terrorist backing down.

[tpols]

It's kind of outdated to put yourself through that much physical punishment to hopefully get a 2 pt bucket. It's a tremendous energy expedenture to endure when the other team can just walk down the court and hit you with a shot worth 50% more with no physical damage done.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's kind of outdated to put yourself through that much physical punishment to hopefully get a 2 pt bucket. It's a tremendous energy expedenture to endure when the other team can just walk down the court and hit you with a shot worth 50% more with no physical damage done.

It has its benefits; for one, basketball is a war of attrition. Exploiting a mismatch in the post can not only wear down that targeted defender, it can also put them in foul trouble. How you play offense is how you make your opposition play defense. And you can affect their play on offense by making them work on defense.

And secondly, this style of play can limit the number of turnovers. Illinois cut its turnover percentage from 18% to 14% by switching to an offense built around a 6'6" guy backing down guys from the perimeter. Regardless of its aesthetics, it statistically improved the team's offense, which was the third-best in the country.

And with good passing, it often leads to wide-open three-point shots. As shown in the video.

[BarberSchool]

I just don’t get Why they changed it for purely cosmetic reasons when people can just stand there and jab step for nine seconds or dribble through their legs back-and-forth as if that’s impressive. It’s a completely needless limitation that is filtered down into making the lower levels weaker because everybody wants to emulate how NBA players play when most of them won’t get close. All you get is players missing a skill they could use because the NBA doesn’t want it.

Not like a lot of those guys weren’t exciting. talking about Jordan Drexler magic Mark Jackson and plenty of people with a lot of flair to their games. Go watch Gary Payton play an undersized lineup. He was like 190 but we go from facing up to quick and back and punish people way bigger than he was. Just an aspect of the game that is missing. Not like it doesn’t work.

Luka is a terrorist backing down.
Everyone better get ready for a motherload of Magic/Payton back-down playmaking in the half-court, for game 5.

[ralph_i_el]

I always thought John Wall should have posted up more on the Wizards. It was extremely rare, but I remember seeing it be effective.

[iamgine]

Feels like the main advantage is it's a lot slower so you don't have to make quick decisions. You can take your time to observe what the defense is doing and pick it apart.

[highwhey]

Booker does it...

[SATAN]

Not particularly. There's a time and place for it though.

[Reggie43]

Two deep playoff runs worth of watching Mark Jackson bullying his defender forced the Nba to change the rules. Funny thing is that the Pacers actually made the Nba Finals the season it was implemented.

[Reggie43]

http://https://nypost.com/1999/06/06/how-bout-a-whistle-stop-jax-post-up-move-has-knicks-baffled/


Jeff Van Gundy wanted answers. Like how his guards should defend Mark Jackson when the Pacer guard bullies his way close to the basket, backing in without being called for an offensive foul.

So Van Gundy called NBA senior VP of basketball operations Rod Thorn Wednesday.

“I just wanted to know what he thought our point guards had to do different,” Van Gundy said yesterday morning after the Knicks’ shoot-around at Purchase College before they faced the Pacers in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Finals last night at the Garden.

“I just think they have the right to guard him. I don’t think you have to give ground. It’s not the rule.”

[highwhey]

but yes, i do miss seeing it. it doesn't seem to be an analytic's favorite method of scoring but i feel like that's a blindspot that math can't see. you should ideally be skilled enough to attempt gaining any advantage in scoring. it's ridiculous seeing bigger guards not attempting it on smaller/weaker defenders.