A year ago, the NBA uploaded a vid of MJ getting 10 steals during a game in 1988

[1987_Lakers]

But if you watch the entire vid, you can only see 7 steals. Why is that?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x63V0I5T-zA&t

I can understand them missing some steals if it was a fan made vid or something, but this is the official channel of the NBA uploading this video, they have the entire game. Very suspicious how they didn't show the 10 steals. :no:

[Carbine]

The thing is you can take away Jordans DPOY and half his steals totals and he's still the goat. Take away a rebound per game if you want.

Nothing changes. His GOAT case is based around other things - his MVPs, his FMVPs, the dominant scoring in the playoffs, signature moments, unbeaten record in the finals and the eye test.

[3ba11]

The NBA did a top 10 dunks video for the 91' Finals and left off 2 of his best dunks

Other videos from the NBA short him on highlights as well - it's pretty standard.. they don't have to show every steal, and probably showed the best ones.

And if this was standard practice to add a few steals to Jordan's total, then why not find more high-steal games that were false? Jordan had a ton of 5+ steal games and it wouldn't be hard to get a bigger sample size

But right now, it's pure bs with literally no sample size. Even the OP video isn't an example because it doesn't prove that MJ didn't have 10 steals

[RRR3]

The thing is you can take away Jordans DPOY and half his steals totals and he's still the goat. Take away a rebound per game if you want.

Nothing changes. His GOAT case is based around other things - his MVPs, his FMVPs, the dominant scoring in the playoffs, signature moments, unbeaten record in the finals and the eye test.
The eye test shows he wasn't guarded on jumpers and there were reports that the Chicago rims were soft before rims were regulated in 1994. Coincidentally after 1993 MJ was never as good...

[Carbine]

I could say Jordan was so devastating getting into the midrange and finishing around the hoop that it was the only thing you could do with Jordan is to "let him shoot" perimeter shots. He was still smart enough not to let the defense dictate what he did and got to his midrange and paint finishing bag up which were GOAT level.

As far as not being as good after 93... Pretty easy to just say he was getting older. That's a reasonable assertion.

[gengiskhan]

The thing is you can take away Jordans DPOY and half his steals totals and he's still the goat. Take away a rebound per game if you want.

Nothing changes. His GOAT case is based around other things - his MVPs, his FMVPs, the dominant scoring in the playoffs, signature moments, unbeaten record in the finals and the eye test.

that is not what Klutch Media is actually going for?

How do you get LeCrybaby a DPOY when he is given a SUPER team in 2013 and still wet the bed with 129 steals and 67 blocks.

Why Klutch want that 2013 DPOY Desperately you may ask?

1994 Hakeem did MVP + DPOY + FMVP in single year.

1994 Hakeem did one better than 1988 MJ (MVP + DPOY)

2013 LBJ has MVP + FMVP. This 2013 DPOY will put him on par with 1994 Hakeem, one better than 1988 MJ.

One thing Klutch Media failing to realize is. 2013 has the weakest of the weak season MVP and FMVPs that no one really cares about. It is a production of SUPER team colluded and collected easy accolades. It literally "brought" those trophies and accolades.

So Klutch is doubling down........it saying since we "brought" MVP and FMVP by Stacking the deck. Also, just hand us 2013 DPOY at 129, 67 while NBA is at it.

"we have no shame"is what Klutch media is saying. as long as we "one up" the unanimous GOAT with our MANUFACTURED GOAT.

[RRR3]

I could say Jordan was so devastating getting into the midrange and finishing around the hoop that it was the only thing you could do with Jordan is to "let him shoot" perimeter shots. He was still smart enough not to let the defense dictate what he did and got to his midrange and paint finishing bag up which were GOAT level.

As far as not being as good after 93... Pretty easy to just say he was getting older. That's a reasonable assertion.
I could say the same thing about LeBron and his rim pressure, doesn't mean he's some deadly shooter like MJ fans pretend he was.

[Da_Realist]

The eye test shows he wasn't guarded on jumpers and there were reports that the Chicago rims were soft before rims were regulated in 1994. Coincidentally after 1993 MJ was never as good...

lol

[RRR3]

lol
It's over pops. Your hero was exposed as a fraud. Your childhood was a lie.

[gengiskhan]

lol

rims are "soft" :roll:

penes is not "hard" enough :oldlol:

penetration is not "satisfying"

phunani is too "dry" :pimp:

ejaculation is too "little" :facepalm

Balls are too "small" :mad:

The stuff Klutch Media has to deal with after PEDs, LeEPO has to inject in his testicles in the off-season!

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvd3aEsThbc

[RRR3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvd3aEsThbc
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Da_Realist]

It's over pops. Your hero was exposed as a fraud. Your childhood was a lie.

You're unintentionally funny :oldlol:

[highwhey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvd3aEsThbc

:roll:

[SATAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvd3aEsThbc

:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Thats actually crazy whats happening here.


So much of his legacy seems to be manufactured.

[gengiskhan]

Thats actually crazy whats happening here.


So much of his legacy seems to be manufactured.

but MJs whole career is that of unanimous, organic GOAT.

how is taking away even 50 steals and 25 blocks just because they were UNCLEAN steals or barely TIPPED blocks will take away 1988 DPOY?

MJ will still be at 200+ and 100+.

Now, you are claiming MANUFACTURED legacy!. This happened with LBJ starting with THE DECISION on ESPN.

Even Kobe's legacy is MANUFACTURED as sidekick to Shaq's 3 championships and 3 dominant FMVPs. Why I say this?

Kobe's 2004 finals and 2008 finals performances in-view, Had Kobe played outside LAL in Charlotte, the team that drafted him, He is not winning NBA finals at 44%FG Ball dominant shot jocking fest. EVER.

Same with Pippen, his legacy is MANUFACTURED too. As MJs sidekick he is top 50 voted in 1997. considered ATG ahead of Dominique. this is a definition of MANUFACTURING and ENGINEERING legacy.

[3ba11]

.
Before entering their first playoffs, the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a HOF coach and a player that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball:



05' HUGHES..... 21.6 PER.. 4.3 BPM.. 0.157 WS/48.. 3.7 VORP... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN....... 16.3 PER.. 1.8 BPM.. 0.087 WS/48.. 3.0 VORP... 16/6/5.... No All-D


^^^ Jordan would obviously 3-peat with all that




Thats actually crazy whats happening here.


So much of his legacy seems to be manufactured.


Obvious projection - Lebron teamed up with rivals and opposing franchise players, not Jordan...

Jordan had to grow and 8 ppg rookie into a 15-20 ppg bricklayer and win with that crap, while Lebron was gifted the 2nd and 3rd best players in his conference to team up with - he diluted his conference and consolidated power on his team.. He also entered the league with the East all-star center on his team, and before entering their first playoffs, the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a HOF coach and a player that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (see stats above).. yikes

[sdot_thadon]

Thats actually crazy whats happening here.


So much of his legacy seems to be manufactured.

It's not that it's manufactured it's just that people are waking up to the same marketing and media love they accuse modern players of getting. He's not so different after all is he?

[1987_Lakers]

Still waiting for the 10 steals.

[3ba11]

subjective stats cannot be reviewed because there's no reason to believe the 2nd subjective ruling will be better than the 1st.. I posted a gif of one of the plays that Haberstroh talks about and it was a Jordan steal!!!.. I'll take the word of the original, professional score-keepers ove some guy 40 years later with an axe to grind.. These are subjective reviews of close calls and anyone can reverse a few by taking the most negative interpretation of every play.

Here's the actual facts that aren't subjective - 2 teams had records above .500 in 1988 compared to 15 teams today - these tougher road conditions and poor road records is why we see normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the one-offs of massive inflation by 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem or 86' Robertson are likely due to personal reasons that affected home/road performance for that particular year.

[Jasper]

I counted 8 , but was not full game highlights

[sdot_thadon]

subjective stats cannot be reviewed because there's no reason to believe the 2nd subjective ruling will be better than the 1st.. I posted a gif of one of the plays that Haberstroh talks about and it was a Jordan steal!!!.. I'll take the word of the original, professional score-keepers ove some guy 40 years later with an axe to grind.. These are subjective reviews of close calls and anyone can reverse a few by taking the most negative interpretation of every play.

Here's the actual facts that aren't subjective - 2 teams had records above .500 in 1988 compared to 15 teams today - these tougher road conditions and poor road records is why we see normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the one-offs of massive inflation by 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem or 86' Robertson are likely due to personal reasons that affected home/road performance for that particular year.

24 second violations, dribbling of their own foot, and a pass going off the offensive players hands out of bounds being credited as steals isn't valid for your "subjective" argument. Just inaccurate stats.

[warriorfan]

We can throw out all stats, eye test still says Jordan is considerably better.

[3ba11]

24 second violations, dribbling of their own foot, and a pass going off the offensive players hands out of bounds being credited as steals isn't valid for your "subjective" argument. Just inaccurate stats.


If Haberstroh sees a deflection that might've been Jordan's, he doesn't know if Jordan is credited with the steal or not.. The announcer usually doesn't announce that.. That's why Haberstroh needed to count all the live ball turnovers in the game himself, and then claim that Jordan's reported steals were more than the total live-ball turnovers - that's the only way to know that some of Jordan's steals were fraudulent.. Accordingly, all Haberstroh has to do is under-count the total live-ball turnovers as he's watching the game - just skip one or two here and there - and then Jordan's total steals will be more than the live-ball turnovers, so Haberstroh can claim Jordan's steals are overstated... And no one can verify Haberstroh's count of the live-ball turnovers because he got the VHS from a guy in Latvia and none of the games are on youtube.. literally

There... that's the whole fraud and everything was true in my previous post that explained how the "normal" home inflation of prior eras was due to tougher road conditions, while the one-off, massive inflation of 88' MJ, 90' Hakeem and 86' Robertson is explained by any number of factors such as personal issues that affected home and road performance in that particular year.

[RRR3]

We can throw out all stats, eye test still says Jordan is considerably better.
The eye test of someone who’s constantly high on crack isn’t worth much.

[3ba11]

The eye test of someone who’s constantly high on crack isn’t worth much.


I watched 6 games of 2009 Lebron and there were a total of 48 assists reported... However, I only saw 36.

So that means Lebron's assists were overstated by 2 per game that year and he didn't deserve MVP.

Can you forward this to FS1 so they can run with it like they did Haberstroh's story?... I've provided just as much information as he did (that can't be instantly explained away)

[8Ball]

Still waiting for the 10 steals.

Jordan's steal count was pumped up just like Jesus story of walking on water.

[gengiskhan]

I counted 8 , but was not full game highlights

This is what I'm worried about!

If we watch full live telecast cut of this game. All 2.5 -3 hr version.

MJ might end up with 12-13 deflections that should've been awarded.

If any faint finger tip weak side MJ block was not awarded, and ball came loose clearly, It has to go in MJ UNCLEAN steal count.

1986-1990 MJ did that a lot, swooping thru air from weak side block strip in paint area or anywhere inside 10-12 feet shot takers.

All UNCLEAN or FINGERTIP "stocks" need to be accounted for.

If that ends up being 13 in MJs favor, how will Klutch Media Minions explain this. :facepalm