Here's why MJ is the greatest defender of all-time

[3ba11]

The gaudy numbers and analytics of all-time rim protectors like Hakeem and Rudy Gobert don't carry the same impact over eras because today's era can bring bigs away from the rim entirely and actually exploit these bigs and make them be a negative for the team in many matchups

We saw this with the Twolves and Gobert being a negative for them in so many spots... Time and time again we see this trend of so-called great-defending bigs being completely nullified in today's game - we saw it with DeAndre Ayton in Phoenix or DPOY's like DeAndre Jordan and many more - it's standard to nullify 7-footers like Hakeem in today's game... It's interesting how Ayton was a prodigal #1 pick but he came around right at the time of the 3-pointer era, which effectively reduced him to nearly a role player.

With 7-footers or that type of defender out of the way, who else could there be except the GOAT?.. It's all intuitive - the GOAT is the best on both sides of the ball.

[Carbine]

Draymond is a better defender. Stop the delusion.

[3ba11]

Draymond is a better defender. Stop the delusion.


https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExb2UxNjQ3MzN1NWhqZTE4YXV6MGdmMHI xdnZmcG9zeXZsd282amQ5NyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/wRdWCK1InCEus/giphy.webp

[Overdrive]

Maybe best 2 guard defender and that's debatable, but that's about it.

[RRR3]

Best at leaving his man to gamble for steals.

[3ba11]

Maybe best 2 guard defender and that's debatable, but that's about it.


anyone that can be exploited in PNR's is disqualified... That leaves MJ and a bunch of inferior perimeter defenders that he's much quicker and more instinctive than like Kawhi, Roberston, Artest, etc, or bigger/longer than like Payton, Smart, etc

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ's also the greatest playmaker, greatest shooter & greatest rebounder of all time as well. I think you could even argue him above Brady/Mahomes as GOAT QB also.

[3ba11]

MJ's also the greatest playmaker, greatest shooter & greatest rebounder of all time as well. I even think you could even argue him above Brady/Mahomes as GOAT QB also.


Don't be mad that I made a good argument

anyone that can be exploited in PNR's is disqualified... That leaves MJ and a bunch of inferior perimeter defenders that he's much quicker and more instinctive than like Kawhi, Roberston, Artest, etc, or bigger/longer than like Payton, Smart, etc

[SouBeachTalents]

Don't be mad that I made a good argument

anyone that can be exploited in PNR's is disqualified... That leaves MJ and a bunch of inferior perimeter defenders that he's much quicker and more instinctive than like Kawhi, Roberston, Artest, etc, or bigger/longer than like Payton, Smart, etc
I'm not mad, I'm AGREEING with you you dumb c0cksucker.

[Hey Yo]

1988*

[3ba11]

I'm not mad, I'm AGREEING with you you dumb c0cksucker.


The late-bloomer missed his calling as a QB - he had the arm and the drive

[3ba11]

1988*



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-29-2024/z-zTjM.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-29-2024/dHNPW3.gif


Everyone's stats show normal home inflation, which has been decreasing over time as road records and conditions improved... In addition to this normal inflation, there are one-offs of massive home inflation that everyone has like 120% and 73% inflation of Lebron's blocks in his first 2 seasons, or 50-80% inflation of stocks for 90' Hakeem, 22' AD, 88' Jordan, or 23' Jaren Jackson Jr - these one-offs could be due to any number of factors including personal issues affecting home/road performance for that particular year... So the point is that there are much better reasons than league-wide cheating by scorekeepers to explain both the normal home inflation and the one-offs of massive inflation, smh

[sdot_thadon]

He'll never be half the defender you are.

[8Ball]

Not even the best defender on his team.

[gengiskhan]

Draymond is a better defender. Stop the delusion.

Not even Close!

[Prometheus]

Imagine Garnett's defense in today's small-ball, switch-heavy meta. He would play the 5 and be the greatest defender to ever live.

[Carbine]

Draymond was one of the 2 or 3 best rim protectors while also being the best switching pick and roll big in the league. He was a more impactful defender than Jordan.

[gengiskhan]

Draymond was one of the 2 or 3 best rim protectors while also being the best switching pick and roll big in the league. He was a more impactful defender than Jordan.

Jordan between 1983 - 1993 was top 2 perimeter defenders the game has ever seen. Right from NCAA sophomore year.

stripping the ball,
clamping defense,
gambling defense,
shutting down passing lanes,
tons of weak side swiping blocks from blind side,
mostly guarded quick PGs b/c Pippen cannot keep up.
incredible agility laterally and face-up, one-on-one.
cat like reflexes, used long wingspan, leaping ability to defensive advantage. literally intercepting, deflecting passes mid-way.

opponents planned for MJs Jeopardizing defense.
Dumars talks about MJ deliberately dropping back sucking playmaker into make that casual pass that was never there.
mid-90s pippen literally learned that trick from MJ.

Top 5 NBA defensive Players to ever play the game.

Unfortunately, you kids only saw him in twilight comeback 2nd 3-peat years. Young MJ was defensive criminal. Always up to no good.

[1987_Lakers]

MJ stans actually believe Jordan was a more impactful defender than Draymond. :oldlol:

[Axe]

Draymond was one of the 2 or 3 best rim protectors while also being the best switching pick and roll big in the league. He was a more impactful defender than Jordan.
Another solid piece that chef gerbil couldn't have won without him.

[SATAN]

Here's why OP is the biggest idiot of all-time: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?518088-Here-s-why-MJ-is-the-greatest-defender-of-all-time

[Manny98]

MJ stans actually believe Jordan was a more impactful defender than Draymond. :oldlol:

This is from the same person who claimed that MJ was a better overall jump shooter than Curry

[Hey Yo]

This is from the same person who claimed that MJ was a better overall jump shooter than Curry

From inside the arc, MJ is better.

[Wardell Curry]

Didn't Russell get 11 rings in 13 years with defense being his calling card? lol

[dankok8]

No perimeter player can ever be in that conversation. And no, not even in today's NBA. Defensive bigs >>>

[Kblaze8855]

This is from the same person who claimed that MJ was a better overall jump shooter than Curry


What’s funny is he used the “Before 3 pointer basketball” to say peak Steph couldn’t make the league in the 70s and was a worse scorer than Brian Winters, Gail Goodrich, and so on who had to do it in traffic on 2 pointers then turns and suggests that todays spacing and 30 foot pick and roll game means defenders from before the 3 point barrage are worse because they would be exploitable in what he considers easy mode watered down basketball.

Hed be better at this if his words weren’t so often in conflict.

Not that Hakeem would have much trouble anyway. Hakeem was like an inch taller than Bam but a more explosive athlete. He’d have been fine right in the middle of todays offenses and defenses.

[tpols]

No perimeter player can ever be in that conversation. And no, not even in today's NBA. Defensive bigs >>>

Dray isn't a true big man. He's like... an inch taller than MJ at best. Dray would be a literal midget in the 90s amongst his peers.

[Carbine]

He's bigger than Rodman.

Rodman had great reps against Shaq. He also had bad ones (like anybody) but nobody was saying Rodman was a midget back then. He could hold up against any post player trying to bully him - just like Dray would.

[tpols]

Dray is not bigger than Bulls Rodman. And most importantly he's not half the athlete Rodman was. Phil Jackson is on record saying Dennis was the best athlete he'd ever personally witnessed. Shaq would destroy Dray no problem.

[gengiskhan]

He's bigger than Rodman.

Rodman had great reps against Shaq. He also had bad ones (like anybody) but nobody was saying Rodman was a midget back then. He could hold up against any post player trying to bully him - just like Dray would.

Rodman is a "freak" athlete. a once-in-a-generation talent and athlete.

Dray is a fat fk. an ugliest n***** alive. and doesnt have the 20% of lateral quickness Rodman has.

Rodman is 6'7" and Dray is 6'6". thats the only commanilty.

what literally seperates Dennis from decent Dray is massive 7'4" WINGSPAN rodman possessed. on top of that lightest of the light feet.

draymond's got wingspan too but rigid one. Rodman was very flexible. all this counts. I wished NBA had true 'combines' like NFL.

Reason Dennis Rodman is the only player in NBA history who can actually and literally guarded all 5 position and give them all hell.

Dray aint even close. Besides being inch shorter and 2 inch short wingspan. He just cannot leap like Dennis ever!.

[dankok8]

Dray isn't a true big man. He's like... an inch taller than MJ at best. Dray would be a literal midget in the 90s amongst his peers.

Dray is not a legit big but he sort of played like one. Still what I'm talking about are defensive anchors mostly big guys 6'10'' and taller.

[gengiskhan]

Dray is not a legit big but he sort of played like one. Still what I'm talking about are defensive anchors mostly big guys 6'10'' and taller.

it aint just about being taller and bigger.

In the paint, wingspan matters the most. dray at 7'1" wingspan helps.

Zo was strong but really 6'10". not even true 7 footer for a center. but that Zo 7'6" extra long wingspan resulted in two blocks titles and 2 DPOY easily. it should've been more.

[dankok8]

it aint just about being taller and bigger.

In the paint, wingspan matters the most. dray at 7'1" wingspan helps.

Zo was strong but really 6'10". not even true 7 footer for a center. but that Zo 7'6" extra long wingspan resulted in two blocks titles and 2 DPOY easily. it should've been more.

Yea Dray plays bigger than his size thanks to his strength and arm span. But still at his height, he's not quite a true big man in terms of being a rim protector.

[sdot_thadon]

it aint just about being taller and bigger.

In the paint, wingspan matters the most. dray at 7'1" wingspan helps.

Zo was strong but really 6'10". not even true 7 footer for a center. but that Zo 7'6" extra long wingspan resulted in two blocks titles and 2 DPOY easily. it should've been more.

It's about being versatile not just from a positional perspective but a scheme perspective too. Mj isn't versatile enough to put him in the room with the greatest defenders ever. Greatest wing defenders ever? Sure that's a conversation anyone is willing to have.

[gengiskhan]

It's about being versatile not just from a positional perspective but a scheme perspective too. Mj isn't versatile enough to put him in the room with the greatest defenders ever. Greatest wing defenders ever? Sure that's a conversation anyone is willing to have.

Versitility is not what you are making it out to be.

If thats the case, Artest, Payton will never win DPOY awards. Its about using your defensive skills perfectly.

MJ had almost 7' wingspan. more important. MJ reflexes were hyperactive. and his defensive stance was always in lane's attacking position.

MJ is actually the Top 3 Perimeter defenders ever in history. He used his light feet, leaping ability, pouncing ability and swooping ability to perfection mostly.

Only Rodman can play 5 position. MJ probably could just play 3 positions. SF, PG, SG. thats fine. Many times Pippen just could not keep quick, small PGs in check. MJ switched and created defensive problems without getting any PF called.

I seen this too many times. Even when MJ got old. Pippen could not handle Grant Hill. MJ switched and took care of Hill. Great job? no. decent job.

That infamous play, MJ switched on AI. remember, that rookie, lightening quick AI needed to hit 34 YO MJ 'twice' with crossover to barely get the shot off. that was almost blocked. Just imagine what 1983-1993 MJ would've done to this AI. most probably blocked this AI jumper despite two crossovers.

I never said, MJ is the greatest defensive player ever. I said MJ is comfortably Top 5 Defensive Players ever. Most probably #5 position.

[sdot_thadon]

Versitility is not what you are making it out to be.

If thats the case, Artest, Payton will never win DPOY awards. Its about using your defensive skills perfectly.

MJ had almost 7' wingspan. more important. MJ reflexes were hyperactive. and his defensive stance was always in lane's attacking position.

MJ is actually the Top 3 Perimeter defenders ever in history. He used his light feet, leaping ability, pouncing ability and swooping ability to perfection mostly.

Only Rodman can play 5 position. MJ probably could just play 3 positions. SF, PG, SG. thats fine. Many times Pippen just could not keep quick, small PGs in check. MJ switched and created defensive problems without getting any PF called.

I seen this too many times. Even when MJ got old. Pippen could not handle Grant Hill. MJ switched and took care of Hill. Great job? no. decent job.

That infamous play, MJ switched on AI. remember, that rookie, lightening quick AI needed to hit 34 YO MJ 'twice' with crossover to barely get the shot off. that was almost blocked. Just imagine what 1983-1993 MJ would've done to this AI. most probably blocked this AI jumper despite two crossovers.

I never said, MJ is the greatest defensive player ever. I said MJ is comfortably Top 5 Defensive Players ever. Most probably #5 position.

Give me a game we can watch where Mj dominated an entire game defensively like Olajuwon or Russell, Kg, etc. It's just a fact of basketball life. A small man can't impact the game more defensively than a mobile big man. As I said before Mj one of the greatest wing defenders ever? Yeah we can have that convo all day, but he's not touching guys who could control the whole game on that end at times.

**also we watched Gp and Artest smother the living shit out of elite guys so we know why they won their awards.

[Carbine]

Dray is not bigger than Bulls Rodman. And most importantly he's not half the athlete Rodman was. Phil Jackson is on record saying Dennis was the best athlete he'd ever personally witnessed. Shaq would destroy Dray no problem.

Stop going off on tangents that have nothing to do with what's at hand trollpols.

Rodman's athletic ability means nothing in this conversation because you said Dray would be a midget back then. Rodman wasn't viewed as such and Dray is bigger (Rodman listed at 220, Draymond 235 at combine and definitely bulked up to 245ish by 2016) and just as strong.

[3ba11]

Draymond was one of the 2 or 3 best rim protectors while also being the best switching pick and roll big in the league. He was a more impactful defender than Jordan.


If Draymond didn't play in Curry-ball, no one know who he is.. He would be recognized as "heady and hustling player" with a with a good podcast - HOF would be a laughable assertion.

The only reason his impact numbers are up there is because he was assigned that role in the curry system and grew up in this role - it's a high on/off role and he learned it like the good student that he's been his entire life.

But similar to Pippen, Draymond is literally nothing outside the system.. His 8/7/6 stats would not get noticed on a losing team with someone like say, Cade Cunningham to build the team instead of Steph Curry.

[JISU]

MJ wasn´t even the best defender in his team (Pippen was).

Payton
Kawahi
Pippen
Duncan
Hakeem

Can be the goat team defender

[gengiskhan]

MJ wasn´t even the best defender in his team (Pippen was).


Lilke I said, Many here have only seen 2nd 3-peat, past-his-prime 1996 - 1998 2001 - 2003 MJ.

These fools have no idea how Great 1983-1993 MJ was defensively.

There is a reason 1993 30 YO MJ was steal champ, only to loose DPOY to the great defensive player in NBA history, while carrying the most offensive load in 1993 NBA.

But they keep going at it again and again. Pippen is this. Pippen is that. :facepalm

All Pippen is...is a cuck who is getting his wife's cheeks clapped by MJ Jr. :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Lilke I said, Many here have only seen 2nd 3-peat, past-his-prime 1996 - 1998 2001 - 2003 MJ.

These fools have no idea how Great 1983-1993 MJ was defensively.

There is a reason 1993 30 YO MJ was steal champ, only to loose DPOY to the great defensive player in NBA history, while carrying the most offensive load in 1993 NBA.

But they keep going at it again and again. Pippen is this. Pippen is that. :facepalm

All Pippen is...is a cuck who is getting his wife's cheeks clapped by MJ Jr. :roll:

Allen Iverson led the league in steals for 3 straight years. Doesn't mean shit.

[tpols]

Allen Iverson led the league in steals for 3 straight years. Doesn't mean shit.

Iverson was a 160 lb midget and liability on defense due to his diminutive size. MJ was 6'6 200+ lbs and one of the greatest basketball athletes ever. Big difference amigo.

[Hey Yo]

Iverson was a 160 lb midget and liability on defense due to his diminutive size. MJ was 6'6 200+ lbs and one of the greatest basketball athletes ever. Big difference amigo.

All of sudden, leading the league in steals doesn't mean shit.

Tell that to your boy MJ and see what he says.

[Axe]

So many damage control itt.

[gbaLL]

RA$TA
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CvpoTxQtL.UF736,736.jpg

[gengiskhan]

Iverson was a 160 lb midget and liability on defense due to his diminutive size. MJ was 6'6 200+ lbs and one of the greatest basketball athletes ever. Big difference amigo.

Bronsexuals are special breed. To them everything is same.

Even a rookie MJ, who finished 4th in Steals category after leading the NBA in total regular season points scored. And all this after 1984 olympics. No break.

Do Recall, Rookie Hakeem and Rookie Sir Charles and Rookie Stockton all got 1984 summer off and MJ steal beat all of them to ROY honors.

All this mean nothing to Bronsexuals. its all same. :roll:

[gbaLL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrMU1AB_Zko

[sdot_thadon]

Lilke I said, Many here have only seen 2nd 3-peat, past-his-prime 1996 - 1998 2001 - 2003 MJ.

These fools have no idea how Great 1983-1993 MJ was defensively.

There is a reason 1993 30 YO MJ was steal champ, only to loose DPOY to the great defensive player in NBA history, while carrying the most offensive load in 1993 NBA.

But they keep going at it again and again. Pippen is this. Pippen is that. :facepalm

All Pippen is...is a cuck who is getting his wife's cheeks clapped by MJ Jr. :roll:

Put a game up displaying the story you're telling about his defense. Not some highlights of getting in the passing lanes.

[3ba11]

Put a game up displaying the story you're telling about his defense. Not some highlights of getting in the passing lanes.


Actually, Johnny Arnett's exposed Haberstroh for only looking at steals and not blocks, which were massively DE-flated over the 10-game sample of haberstroh's and arnett's games - Arnett's personally-recorded eye test showed that Jordan likely averaged at least 2.5 blocks, so he was at around 2.5 blocks and 2.5 steals in 88', aka the GOAT defender..

That recently-released video confirmed this thread title, hence the bump

[RRR3]

Actually, Johnny Arnett's exposed Haberstroh for only looking at steals and not blocks, which were massively DE-flated over the 10-game sample of haberstroh's and arnett's games - Arnett's personally-recorded eye test showed that Jordan likely averaged at least 2.5 blocks, so he was at around 2.5 blocks and 2.5 steals in 88', aka the GOAT defender..

That recently-released video confirmed this thread title, hence the bump
2.5 blocks as a guard lmfao



Meth

[3ba11]

2.5 blocks as a guard lmfao



Meth


Actually Arnett's sample showed 28 definite blocks over 10 games (2.8 average), plus another 20 possible blocks (48 total or 4.8 average)

So 2.5 blocks on the season is CONSERVATIVE

But the reality is that Arnett was exposed by an obscure youtuber that pointed out the NBA's rule for recording steals that has video examples on nba.com... Apparently, "uncontrolled" deflections that aren't directed towards a teammate are credited to whoever picks up the ball - Arnett's definition of a steal excluded this, so his entire eye test is nullified... ::oldlol::roll::lebronamazed::hammerhead:... poor guy.. i know he put in a lot of time into it.

[RRR3]

D-DUHHHHHH-uhhh-uhhh
:biggums:

[3ba11]

:biggums:


that was my reaction too when i thought about 35/6/6/3/3

[RRR3]

me stupid hehehehehe
:roll: