MJ did not play in the modern era

[StrongLurk]

Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era of basketball.

The NBA implemented instant replay in 2002. The first round of the playoffs was extended to a best-of-seven series in 2003. Meanwhile MJ got to play three seasons with a SHORTENED 3-point line. Don't even get me started with the lack of free agency and the "primitive" types of contracts back then. The NBA is SO much more complicated for front offices over the last 20 years compared to the 80s/90s.

MJ's peak was over 30 years ago. MJ is the GOAT of his era for sure, but he did not play in the "modern" era. Every knows this instinctually when they watch games in the 80's/90's, but there is real data and basketball changes as well to consider.

[gengiskhan]

Dear OP

Please. Suck deeek

while you are at it.

Please. Eat Shyte.

Sincerely,

Yours truly.

[3ba11]

.
MJ dominated the 4 best players that Lebron ever faced:[/COLOR][/size]



1) SHAQ



Top Lebron moments:



During the only years where Shaq still had some prime left, Lebron finished behind Shaq in MVP voting (2004 and 2005), and lost the conference to him (2005 and 2006).. Lebron never dunked on him.




Top Jordan moments:



Jordan won MVP over prime Shaq in 1996 and 1998 and swept Shaq in 1996 ECF.. He also dunked on him, shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2015/LfHlds.gif).



2. DUNCAN



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron missed the infamous game-tying 3-pointer and needed Ray Allen to save him




Top Jordan moments:



- Jordan MADE his game-tying 3-pointer from the exact same spot during his first meeting with Duncan/Popovich in 1998 (the shot is shown here (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif))... Then he dominated the OT, including 2 dunks over Duncan, shown here (https://media.giphy.com/media/26FPq7nUqs2V8LyNO/giphy.gif)..

Later in that 1998 season, Jordan won the Finals against the team (Jazz) that destroyed Duncan/Robinson/Popovich's Spurs in 2nd Round (Spurs won 56 games in RS).



3. KOBE:



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron watched Kobe win more championships during the time that both were in their prime, and also watched Kobe save the team in the 2008 Olympics.

- He missed the much-anticipated, Kobe/Lebron matchup in 2009 and 2010 Finals, because his top-seeded team underachieved by losing to lower seeds in earlier rounds.




Top Jordan moments:



- MJ dunked on Kobe in their first ever possession vs. each other, shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2015/Q3fm0o.gif)

- MJ showed his protege how it's done by hitting the game-winner in the first game of the 1997 Finals, after Kobe had airballed 4 straight game-winner attempts against the same team earlier in the playoffs.

- MJ passed the torch to his protoge in the 1998 all-star game by scoring on him at will (5 times in head-to-head possessions, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3sto7KGQs&t=0m16s)).




4. GARNETT:



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron got his shit pushed in during 2008 and 2010 ECSF




Top Jordan moments:



- Jordan schooled Garnett in the 1998 all-star game (shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-30-2015/q8-1iR.gif)) and during the regular season (shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/6agjm-.gif), here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/EfFINb.gif) and here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/Jp9ACT.gif)).

- The only time where MJ and Garnett were matched up defensively for an entire game was during a 2002 contest - both were matched up at SF, and 38-year old Jordan scored 35 on Garnett in every way imagineable, including various blow-by dunks and layups, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0).




5. SHAWN MARION:



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron got locked down by OLD Shawn Marion during the 2011 Finals, which was one of the greatest chokes ever by a star in the Finals.




Top Jordan moments:



- 38-year old Jordan hit the game-winner in PRIME Shawn Marion's face during a contest in 2002 (shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjo06p5zchg&t=0m09s)), and then destroyed him for 41 points in another contest (shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg)).




6. 2003-2004 seasons



JORDAN 2003: 19.3 PER.. 20.0 ppg.. 44.5 fg
LEBRON 2004: 18.3 PER.. 20.9 ppg.. 41.7 fg

[StrongLurk]

The two "posters" that responded to me are the same poster.

Too much on MJ's meat. Otherwise they would've noticed that my OP doesn't denigrate MJ as a player at all. It's just a factual observation that sports change over time, and you can certainly pick out "eras" for players/front offices/NBA rules.

MJ fans saying Bill Russell/Wilt played in a more primitive era/NBA is literally no different than Lebron fans saying MJ played in a primitive era/NBA

It's been 26 years since MJ retired at the end of his prime in 1998. Wilt retired in 1973, 25 years before MJ in 1998. A LOT of time has passed since 1998. The game is so much more dynamic, the talent pool has more "world" talent by a long shot since 1998, the NBA front office/team building rules are much more complicated.

MJ is the GOAT of the 80's/90's. Lebron is the GOAT of the post-2000's era. These are facts.

[3ba11]

The two "posters" that responded to me are the same poster.

Too much on MJ's meat. Otherwise they would've noticed that my OP doesn't denigrate MJ as a player at all. It's just a factual observation that sports change over time, and you can certainly pick out "eras" for players/front offices/NBA rules.

MJ fans saying Bill Russell/Wilt played in a more primitive era/NBA is literally no different than Lebron fans saying MJ played in a primitive era/NBA

It's been 26 years since MJ retired at the end of his prime in 1998. Wilt retired in 1973, 25 years before MJ in 1998. A LOT of time has passed since 1998. The game is so much more dynamic, the talent pool has more "world" talent by a long shot since 1998, the NBA front office/team building rules are much more complicated.

MJ is the GOAT of the 80's/90's. Lebron is the GOAT of the post-2000's era. These are facts.


Was lebron too scared to dunk on Shaq or something?... Old MJ just went right up no problem.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2015/LfHlds.gif

[3ba11]

.
Why did Lebron brick this shot and need Ray Allen to save him, while MJ made the exact same shot in his first meeting with Popovich/Duncan?


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif

[StrongLurk]

Was lebron too scared to dunk on Shaq or something?... Old MJ just went right up no problem.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2015/LfHlds.gif

Your post literally has nothing too do with any of my posts in this thread. Guess you are resorted to avoiding the facts laid out in this thread.

[3ba11]

Your post literally has nothing too do with any of my posts in this thread. Guess you are resorted to avoiding the facts laid out in this thread.


You're saying that MJ didn't play in the modern era except it's clear that MJ played against many of the best players that Lebron ever faced, and outplayed Lebron against them.

Your claim about old eras applies to the 50's and 60's, where Russell and MJ have no common opponents - the 50's and 60's really was the boonies where blacks were limited and restricted from playing and there was no 3-point line... Whereas we have MJ winning a title in 1993 by shooting threes better than 2019 Kawhi's run

[Im Still Ballin]

Was lebron too scared to dunk on Shaq or something?... Old MJ just went right up no problem.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2015/LfHlds.gif

LeBron couldn't jump or palm the ball like that. MJ's the best jumper in NBA history because he had no weaknesses; could jump high, quick, off two feet or one, from a standstill or off movement. OTOH, LeBron had limitations as a two-footed jumper and his quickness of jump lacked in comparison to guys like MJ or Marion.

[Carbine]

The NBA in the 90s looks a lot closer to current basketball than the 60s did to the 90s.

It's a different game now. More spacing just opens things up for Michael, his offensive game would be even more difficult to contain.

[gbaLL]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvdAwcUep5WYc-bEezVlCX7qfM7QTWB39XRxsh3u8hF9ltCVwLIfeiAdMb0o8UMB HgAIxzz_wIhY8P2MwXcrsIh2WK0DITWWh3xsFRFuJuKAwtx7cr hlpFujY

[ImKobe]

MJ played with less spacing and with defenders mauling him every time he attacked the paint. Hard fouls were just hard fouls and not flagrants.

[3ba11]

LeBron couldn't jump or palm the ball like that. MJ's the best jumper in NBA history because he had no weaknesses; could jump high, quick, off two feet or one, from a standstill or off movement. OTOH, LeBron had limitations as a two-footed jumper and his quickness of jump lacked in comparison to guys like MJ or Marion.


Lebron doesn't know how to surprise the defense like that - he can only be predictable by coming "down-hill" (not 5-man basketball) - notice how when MJ is going off, teammates are assisting him and therefore still involved like Kukoc assisting MJ for the Shaq poster above

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron doesn't know how to surprise the defense like that - he can only be predictable by coming "down-hill" (not 5-man basketball) - notice how when MJ is going off, teammates are assisting him and therefore still involved like Kukoc assisting MJ for the Shaq poster above

Because of the reasons I mentioned. LeBron couldn't jump as quickly or as well off two feet as Jordan could. From a standstill or off movement like in the Shaq poster GIF. Nor could he move laterally and change direction or pace as quickly and fluidly.

These athletic advantages made Michael a far more dynamic basketball player, allowing him to find more space and scoring opportunities within the congestion of the half-court setting.

[And1AllDay]

.
MJ dominated the 4 best players that Lebron ever faced:[/COLOR][/size]



1) SHAQ



Top Lebron moments:



During the only years where Shaq still had some prime left, Lebron finished behind Shaq in MVP voting (2004 and 2005), and lost the conference to him (2005 and 2006).. Lebron never dunked on him.




Top Jordan moments:



Jordan won MVP over prime Shaq in 1996 and 1998 and swept Shaq in 1996 ECF.. He also dunked on him, shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2015/LfHlds.gif).



2. DUNCAN



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron missed the infamous game-tying 3-pointer and needed Ray Allen to save him




Top Jordan moments:



- Jordan MADE his game-tying 3-pointer from the exact same spot during his first meeting with Duncan/Popovich in 1998 (the shot is shown here (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif))... Then he dominated the OT, including 2 dunks over Duncan, shown here (https://media.giphy.com/media/26FPq7nUqs2V8LyNO/giphy.gif)..

Later in that 1998 season, Jordan won the Finals against the team (Jazz) that destroyed Duncan/Robinson/Popovich's Spurs in 2nd Round (Spurs won 56 games in RS).



3. KOBE:



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron watched Kobe win more championships during the time that both were in their prime, and also watched Kobe save the team in the 2008 Olympics.

- He missed the much-anticipated, Kobe/Lebron matchup in 2009 and 2010 Finals, because his top-seeded team underachieved by losing to lower seeds in earlier rounds.




Top Jordan moments:



- MJ dunked on Kobe in their first ever possession vs. each other, shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2015/Q3fm0o.gif)

- MJ showed his protege how it's done by hitting the game-winner in the first game of the 1997 Finals, after Kobe had airballed 4 straight game-winner attempts against the same team earlier in the playoffs.

- MJ passed the torch to his protoge in the 1998 all-star game by scoring on him at will (5 times in head-to-head possessions, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3sto7KGQs&t=0m16s)).




4. GARNETT:



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron got his shit pushed in during 2008 and 2010 ECSF




Top Jordan moments:



- Jordan schooled Garnett in the 1998 all-star game (shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-30-2015/q8-1iR.gif)) and during the regular season (shown here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/6agjm-.gif), here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/EfFINb.gif) and here (http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2015/Jp9ACT.gif)).

- The only time where MJ and Garnett were matched up defensively for an entire game was during a 2002 contest - both were matched up at SF, and 38-year old Jordan scored 35 on Garnett in every way imagineable, including various blow-by dunks and layups, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0).




5. SHAWN MARION:



Top Lebron moments:



- Lebron got locked down by OLD Shawn Marion during the 2011 Finals, which was one of the greatest chokes ever by a star in the Finals.




Top Jordan moments:



- 38-year old Jordan hit the game-winner in PRIME Shawn Marion's face during a contest in 2002 (shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjo06p5zchg&t=0m09s)), and then destroyed him for 41 points in another contest (shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg)).




6. 2003-2004 seasons



JORDAN 2003: 19.3 PER.. 20.0 ppg.. 44.5 fg
LEBRON 2004: 18.3 PER.. 20.9 ppg.. 41.7 fg

writing this out is embarrasing dude..

[And1AllDay]

The NBA in the 90s looks a lot closer to current basketball than the 60s did to the 90s.

It's a different game now. More spacing just opens things up for Michael, his offensive game would be even more difficult to contain.

he also woood not be guarded by plumbers and mechanic traffic cones who cant dribble with left hand if mikey actually played in modern era

[Bawkish]

Modern Era = tiktokers, OnlyFans pimps, InstaInfluencers

[ILLsmak]

Dudes stay throwing oops to 3ball.

-Smak

[Carbine]

he also woood not be guarded by plumbers and mechanic traffic cones who cant dribble with left hand if mikey actually played in modern era

Thanks

[StrongLurk]

You're saying that MJ didn't play in the modern era except it's clear that MJ played against many of the best players that Lebron ever faced, and outplayed Lebron against them.

Your claim about old eras applies to the 50's and 60's, where Russell and MJ have no common opponents - the 50's and 60's really was the boonies where blacks were limited and restricted from playing and there was no 3-point line... Whereas we have MJ winning a title in 1993 by shooting threes better than 2019 Kawhi's run

This is another wrong post by you. I am not surprised.

Nothing in my OP mentioned the "players". It has everything to do with rules/regulations/technology/front offices. It's a literal fact that MJ's prime was in a previous era. I mean, you literally mention this all the time when referencing "current players" and how different the styles have become. Yet when I frame what you say in a different way, you suddenly don't like it :lol.

How can MJ be in the "modern" era when his prime ended 26 years ago, and his peak was over 30 years ago?

Did MJ play with instant replay? Did MJ play with a best of 7 game series in the 1st round of the playoffs? Did MJ play with a shortened 3-point line? Has free agency, player contracts, and front offices drastically changed? Think before you speak.

[beasted]

Let's play it your way OP. Wouldn't the opposite also true?

LeBron got to play in an era where zone defense is allowed which ushered in small ball and less interior paint defense. Played in an era without hand-checking. Played in an era where the gather step rule was rewritten to allow moves frequently called a travel previously. Played in an era that has regularly turned a blind eye to carrying and other violations in the spirit of promoting offense. Played in an era with much more advanced science and equipment and team budgets allowing for better diagnosis and health care allowing for increased longevity.

The list goes on and it's a two- way street.

[StrongLurk]

Let's play it your way OP. Wouldn't the opposite also true?

LeBron got to play in an era where zone defense is allowed which ushered in small ball and less interior paint defense. Played in an era without hand-checking. Played in an era where the gather step rule was rewritten to allow moves frequently called a travel previously. Played in an era that has regularly turned a blind eye to carrying and other violations in the spirit of promoting offense. Played in an era with much more advanced science and equipment and team budgets allowing for better diagnosis and health care allowing for increased longevity.

The list goes on and it's a two- way street.

What exactly are you saying with this post? The opposite of WHAT would be true?

Lebron of course plays in the modern era, dude literally just made an all-nba team this past season. MJ played before many notable changes to free agency, player contracts, playoff extensions, front office capabilities, basic tech like instant freaking replay for review for crying out loud. These are massive changes to the NBA. MJ played 4 years before unrestricted FA even existed.

Not even talking about players themselves, but if I would, it would be the obvious fact the the NBA has a true worldwide talent pool, which they absolutely did not in the 80's/90's.

It's hilarious seeing 3ball and these other posts get their panties in a wad when I'm literally laying out massive, factual changes to the NBA over a long period of time. MJ's peak ended in 1993, 31 years ago...the guy simply did not play in the "modern" era. How can you dispute that? Why is everyone crying so much?

[gbaLL]

TALK 2 ME [mArLeY] IN DA D.R.E.A.M.

[beasted]

What exactly are you saying with this post? The opposite of WHAT would be true?



You can't be this dense. Let me spell it out for you like a little child:

There are inherent advantages and disadvantages that come with playing in any era. My point was that according to you LeBron didn't play in the "non-modern era" as you frame it and naturally benefited from different advantages.

It's all relative. These topics are pointless. Because nobody can definitively prove which era was more or less difficult to compete in.

What can be proven, however, is how greatly a player dominated his own peers in his own era. The fact is that it can be definitively proven that Jordan has dominated his own era at an unprecedented level that hasn't been matched. The only player that comes close to a similar level of donination was Wilt, but that didn't lead to as many wins.

[StrongLurk]

You can't be this dense. Let me spell it out for you like a little child:

There are inherent advantages and disadvantages that come with playing in any era. My point was that according to you LeBron didn't play in the "non-modern era" as you frame it and naturally benefited from different advantages.

It's all relative. These topics are pointless. Because nobody can definitively prove which era was more or less difficult to compete in.

What can be proven, however, is how greatly a player dominated his own peers in his own era. The fact is that it can be definitively proven that Jordan has dominated his own era at an unprecedented level that hasn't been matched. The only player that comes close to a similar level of donination was Wilt, but that didn't lead to as many wins.

I didn't say anything about which era was "better". I said that MJ and Lebron factually played in different eras. MJ's era is not the "modern" era per the reasons I stated. I also said MJ is the GOAT in his era and Lebron is the GOAT in his era.

I just love how everyone get so upset at me saying MJ didn't play in the modern era. It's just a factual statement.

[beasted]

I didn't say anything about which era was "better". I said that MJ and Lebron factually played in different eras. MJ's era is not the "modern" era per the reasons I stated. I also said MJ is the GOAT in his era and Lebron is the GOAT in his era.

I just love how everyone get so upset at me saying MJ didn't play in the modern era. It's just a factual statement.

This is still a subjective and pointless discussion of what modern basketball is framed from your own points of reference.

What's stopping anyone else from using some other contrived reference point? Like, say I said, the G-League creation was the genesis of modern basketball because I spelled out how each team having a "minor league" testing and development ground made for modern offenses to be greatly enhanced. What makes my bookend to "modern basketball" more or less correct than yours?

What if one day soon they add a 4pt line/bubble, or they change the court measurements in some other meaningful way and we call that the true modern basketball origin?

[StrongLurk]

This is still a subjective and pointless discussion of what modern basketball is framed from your own points of reference.

What's stopping anyone else from using some other contrived reference point? Like, say I said, the G-League creation was the genesis of modern basketball because I spelled out how each team having a "minor league" testing and development ground made for modern offenses to be greatly enhanced. What makes my bookend to "modern basketball" more or less correct than yours?

What if one day soon they add a 4pt line/bubble, or they change the court measurements in some other meaningful way and we call that the true modern basketball origin?

It's not a pointless discussion, people discuss era's all the time. Acknowledging vital changes in the NBA is always important. I didn't use contrived reference points. The g-league is another example of MJ NOT playing in the modern era. Lebron by default is playing in the modern era cause he's still active and an all-NBA player (not washed/barely hanging on). You are agreeing with my thread/OP, and somehow, you don't even realize it.

If they add a 4 point line, then yes, that would probably instantly start a new era for the NBA.

[beasted]

It's not a pointless discussion, people discuss era's all the time. Acknowledging vital changes in the NBA is always important. I didn't use contrived reference points. The g-league is another example of MJ NOT playing in the modern era. Lebron by default is playing in the modern era cause he's still active and an all-NBA player (not washed/barely hanging on). You are agreeing with my thread/OP, and somehow, you don't even realize it.

If they add a 4 point line, then yes, that would probably instantly start a new era for the NBA.

Most current analysts view the the modern era as the shot clock and 3 point era because those are consensus milestones ofthe most major changes to the dynamics of the game. None of the major sports analysts, experts, or players apply the modern distinction that you do. Modern is simply a point of reference unique to everyone's individual perspective.

If you believe that is agreeing, then I'm fine with it. But if you were to apply this same topic to something else such as cars you'll see that the variability exists even in machinery.

There was a time that the modern era of cars meant changing from 2 stroke to 4 stroke, then from carburetors to fuel injection, then it changed from port injection to direction injection. Then from petroleum to hybrid/electric powerplants. Modern will forever be a moving target that is always subjective.

Jordan played at a high level at old age too. Most of the greats do (Jordan, KAJ, Malone, etc. )

[StrongLurk]

Most current analysts view the the modern era as the shot clock and 3 point era because those are consensus milestones ofthe most major changes to the dynamics of the game. None of the major sports analysts, experts, or players apply the modern distinction that you do. Modern is simply a point of reference unique to everyone's individual perspective.

If you believe that is agreeing, then I'm fine with it. But if you were to apply this same topic to something else such as cars you'll see that the variability exists even in machinery.

There was a time that the modern era of cars meant changing from 2 stroke to 4 stroke, then from carburetors to fuel injection, then it changed from port injection to direction injection. Then from petroleum to hybrid/electric powerplants. Modern will forever be a moving target that is always subjective.

Jordan played at a high level at old age too. Most of the greats do (Jordan, KAJ, Malone, etc. )

Shot clock was in 1954, 3-point line is 1979. You cannot be serious claiming 1979 to now is all one "modern" era.

We have already discussed a ton of changes to the NBA just in the last 22 years, let alone going back 45 years to the addition of the 3 point line :lol

By default, Lebron plays in the modern era because he's literally still playing in a prime/all-nba caliber role. MJ was last that caliber in 1998. There were 25 years between the shot clock and the 3-point line...there have been 26 years since 1998...you guys are just refusing to acknowledge how ****ing long ago MJ played.

Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era. MJ is the GOAT of his era. End of discussion.

[3ba11]

Shot clock was in 1954, 3-point line is 1979. You cannot be serious claiming 1979 to now is all one "modern" era.

We have already discussed a ton of changes to the NBA just in the last 22 years, let alone going back 45 years to the addition of the 3 point line :lol

By default, Lebron plays in the modern era because he's literally still playing in a prime/all-nba caliber role. MJ was last that caliber in 1998. There were 25 years between the shot clock and the 3-point line...there have been 26 years since 1998...you guys are just refusing to acknowledge how ****ing long ago MJ played.

Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era. MJ is the GOAT of his era. End of discussion.


Curry, Duncan, and Kobe won more than Lebron and Lebron has a lottery record against them - they're the goats of this era, and MJ is goat over them, so MJ is goat of the 3-pointer basketball and post-merger and post civil rights era.

You're just reaching and were destroyed in this thread... Once it was shown to you that MJ outperformed Lebron against the best guys that Lebron ever faced - the thread was over - everyone knew you were fos

Guys like Curry won 4 chips in 6 years, or duncan won 3 in 5, or Jordan won 6 in 7... Whereas Lebron never had a stretch of mostly winning, so he mostly loses regardless of cast - his "down-hill" skillset isn't 5-man basketball and imposes spot-up roles, so he cannot develop the great chemistry required for a great-performing cast, aka great team/dynasty.. That's why he mostly loses no matter who we put around him.. It's quite pathetic.. This bum went 1/5 with AD, or 1/4 with Love, or 2/4 with Wade - he's a perennial loser regardless of cast, while MJ was unbeatable the instant he got 1 all-star.

You should feel embarrassed that you fell for the fraud of turning the biggest loser in the history into a fake goat... No one has more bad losses on their career resume than Lebron, such as sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, worst-ever championship record, lottery in prime, losses with 2 all-star teammates, losses with top seeds, losses with preseason favorites (favored talent)..

[StrongLurk]

Curry, Duncan, and Kobe won more than Lebron and Lebron has a lottery record against them - they're the goats of this era, and MJ is goat over them, so MJ is goat of the 3-pointer basketball and post-merger and post civil rights era.

You're just reaching and were destroyed in this thread... Once it was shown to you that MJ outperformed Lebron against the best guys that Lebron ever faced - the thread was over - everyone knew you were fos

Guys like Curry won 4 chips in 6 years, or duncan won 3 in 5, or Jordan won 6 in 7... Whereas Lebron never had a stretch of mostly winning, so he mostly loses regardless of cast - his "down-hill" skillset isn't 5-man basketball and imposes spot-up roles, so he cannot develop the great chemistry required for a great-performing cast, aka great team/dynasty.. That's why he mostly loses no matter who we put around him.. It's quite pathetic.. This bum went 1/5 with AD, or 1/4 with Love, or 2/4 with Wade - he's a perennial loser regardless of cast, while MJ was unbeatable the instant he got 1 all-star.

You should feel embarrassed that you fell for the fraud of turning the biggest loser in the history into a fake goat... No one has more bad losses on their career resume than Lebron, such as sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, worst-ever championship record, lottery in prime, losses with 2 all-star teammates, losses with top seeds, losses with preseason favorites (favored talent)..

The fact that you are so triggered and upset over the facts I presented just shows your insecurity. I am not wrong about facts. There is no "reaching" here. MJ was the goat of his era, but he did not play in the modern era. That's literally what this whole thread is about. It has nothing to do with saying if MJ or Lebron is better than the other, nor does it say anything about one era being better than the other era. It's literally just pointing out the MJ played a long time ago, and you're having a copy/paste meltdown trying to deny this :roll:

When looking at rings, FMVPs, and MVPs, Lebron has 12 total, Duncan has 10 total, Kobe has 8 total, and Curry has 7 total. Lebron has everyone beat, these are the facts.

I can't wait for you to come back to my thread and cry more. You literally can't debunk anything I have posted in this entire thread because it's all historical record. You are the one trying to cherry pick and create narratives.

[3ba11]

The fact that you are so triggered and upset over the facts I presented


You said that the modern era occurred when 1st round series became 7 games - that's trash - next... bad argument

You said that the modern era occurred when instant replay came in - wrong again - instant replay has ruined games and there's more complaining about results now than ever before.

Shortened 3-point line means nothing because MJ had a better stats, accolades, and winning than lebron in the years from the regular line - you can remove those 2 titles from Jordan's career and he still reached higher heights and better-quality accolades than Lebron..

But the reality is that the shortened line introduced a more international format and spacing that MJ conquered, while Lebron needed all-star spacing to be MVP in 2009 or win 60 games in 09' or 13'... MJ doesn't need spacing to win rings or be MVP, while Lebron has always needed all-star spacers like Mo, Allen, Korver, or D-Lo, and also needs franchise player "closers" that can match his scoring like Wade, Kyrie or AD.. And then he needs perennial all-star PF's at 3rd optioin like Bosh and Love.

And that was pretty much it - your argument for why today is the "modern era" was weak and everyone says that MJ would average 50 in today's hands-off, spaced-out beginner format.. Today's game is an easy iso game where guys like MJ get to nullify all-time defenders like Hakeem by iso'ing them on the perimeter all-game.. lol... what a joke today's game must be for great perimeter players like Luka, SGA, etc, let alone MJ.

[StrongLurk]

You said that the modern era occurred when 1st round series became 7 games - that's trash - next... bad argument

You said that the modern era occurred when instant replay came in - wrong again - instant replay has ruined games and there's more complaining about results now than ever before.

Shortened 3-point line means nothing because MJ had a better stats, accolades, and winning than lebron in the years from the regular line - you can remove those 2 titles from Jordan's career and he still reached higher heights and better-quality accolades than Lebron..

But the reality is that the shortened line introduced a more international format and spacing that MJ conquered, while Lebron needed all-star spacing to be MVP in 2009 or win 60 games in 09' or 13'... MJ doesn't need spacing to win rings or be MVP, while Lebron has always needed all-star spacers like Mo, Allen, Korver, or D-Lo, and also needs franchise player "closers" that can match his scoring like Wade, Kyrie or AD.. And then he needs perennial all-star PF's at 3rd optioin like Bosh and Love.

And that was pretty much it - your argument for why today is the "modern era" was weak and everyone says that MJ would average 50 in today's hands-off, spaced-out beginner format.. Today's game is an easy iso game where guys like MJ get to nullify all-time defenders like Hakeem by iso'ing them on the perimeter all-game.. lol... what a joke today's game must be for great perimeter players like Luka, SGA, etc, let alone MJ.

I posted many other things you left out, and yes these are real changes to the NBA itself, hence developing the modern era. You keep getting caught up in your feelings when Im just literally just laying out the factual NBA changes over time. You keep trying to say which one is better when that is not the point of the discussion at all.

And in fact, in you want to go the route the actual on court differences with players/schemes, then in your last post you literally just confirmed that we are in a new era from when MJ played with the last paragraph of your post. You always say "in today's beginner format, yada yada". So yeah, thanks for confirming my thread and OP which factually states that MJ in fact did not play in the modern era by virtue of his prime ending 26 years ago. It's honestly wild how upset all these MJ stans are, particularly 3ball, when I am literally not even comparing MJ to Lebron as players. I am simply stating that their primes are in two different eras of basketball, which is factual.

TLDR.

MJ is the GOAT of the previous era (80s/90). There is a small transition 99-02. Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era that came after. I am not comparing MJ to Lebron as a player, I am discussing the eras they played in. 3ball is too dumb to understand. MJ's prime ending is closer to Wilts retirement (1973-1998, so 25 years) than Lebron's recent ALL-NBA selection to MJ's prime ending (1998-2024, so 26 years).

[3ba11]

I posted many other things you left out, and yes these are real changes to the NBA itself, hence developing the modern era. You keep getting caught up in your feelings when Im just literally just laying out the factual NBA changes over time. You keep trying to say which one is better when that is not the point of the discussion at all.

And in fact, in you want to go the route the actual on court differences with players/schemes, then in your last post you literally just confirmed that we are in a new era from when MJ played with the last paragraph of your post. You always say "in today's beginner format, yada yada". So yeah, thanks for confirming my thread and OP which factually states that MJ in fact did not play in the modern era by virtue of his prime ending 26 years ago. It's honestly wild how upset all these MJ stans are, particularly 3ball, when I am literally not even comparing MJ to Lebron as players. I am simply stating that their primes are in two different eras of basketball, which is factual.

TLDR.

MJ is the GOAT of the previous era (80s/90). There is a small transition 99-02. Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era that came after. I am not comparing MJ to Lebron as a player, I am discussing the eras they played in. 3ball is too dumb to understand. MJ's prime ending is closer to Wilts retirement (1973-1998, so 25 years) than Lebron's recent ALL-NBA selection to MJ's prime ending (1998-2024, so 26 years).


You're saying that MJ didn't play in this era, so he can't be the goat of this era, and this goes for any player - they can only be the goat of their era

However, the point of debate is to see who is goat over all the eras - that's the whole point - to determine the greatest of "ALL TIME" - the "all time" part is critical to the term "goat"

so even though you made a seemingly great case to not point out Jordan's superiority to Lebron due to different eras, you ultimately failed because we're trying to find out the greatest of ALL-TIME

since MJ dominated his peers to a greater extent than lebron, he's the goat... And since MJ played against many of the same guys that Lebron did, this validates his superior dominance and production rate/stats (his stats are also validated by winning, great chemistry/fits, and great teammate development, aka the stats weren't "empty" or "shot-jacking that hurts the team", etc)

Finally, Lebron is actually not goat of this era - so that kills your argument more than anything - other guys proved their superiority by winning more with less, such as Duncan, Curry or Kobe... These 3 guys proved that they could achieve "unbeatable" teams that mostly won for stretches, while Lebron mostly lost with every cast that he ever had and therefore mostly loses, regardless of cast - accordingly, he isn't the goat of this era - several guys proved superior based on them being superior winners, scorers, shooters, brands of ball, defenders and CLOSERS

[StrongLurk]

You're saying that MJ didn't play in this era, so he can't be the goat of this era, and this goes for any player - they can only be the goat of their era

However, the point of debate is to see who is goat over all the eras - that's the whole point - to determine the greatest of "ALL TIME" - the "all time" part is critical to the term "goat"

so even though you made a seemingly great case to not point out Jordan's superiority to Lebron due to different eras, you ultimately failed because we're trying to find out the greatest of ALL-TIME

since MJ dominated his peers to a greater extent than lebron, he's the goat... And since MJ played against many of the same guys that Lebron did, this validates his superior dominance and production rate/stats (his stats are also validated by winning, great chemistry/fits, and great teammate development, aka the stats weren't "empty" or "shot-jacking that hurts the team", etc)

Finally, Lebron is actually not goat of this era - so that kills your argument more than anything - other guys proved their superiority by winning more with less, such as Duncan, Curry or Kobe... These 3 guys proved that they could achieve "unbeatable" teams that mostly won for stretches, while Lebron mostly lost with every cast that he ever had and therefore mostly loses, regardless of cast - accordingly, he isn't the goat of this era - several guys proved superior based on them being superior winners, scorers, shooters, brands of ball, defenders and CLOSERS

Your first sentence shows you agree with my entire thread. Great to see. MJ and Lebron played in different eras.

I don't care about your next three paragraphs, you can go ahead and copy/paste your millionth thread on that topic. That is a different discussion that my thread (which again, you clearly agree with my entire thread because I stuck to facts).

I already proved your last paragraph wrong too. When looking at rings, FMVPs, and MVPs, Lebron has 12 total, Duncan has 10 total, Kobe has 8 total, and Curry has 7 total. Lebron has everyone beat in the modern era, and nobody was better than Lebron at winning championships as "the man" (FMVP). These are the facts.

Keep coming back for more though, you are an easy punching bag.

[3ba11]

I guess you could say that each new era that Lebron enters and mostly loses in confirms that he's a loser.. Each era that he fails to achieve an "unbeatable" team that mostly wins for a stretch of time confirms that he mostly loses regardless of cast or era.. Btw, being the GOAT means the greatest of ALL-TIME (all eras), and that's MJ by virtue of dominating his peers by more than anyone else dominated theirs.

[StrongLurk]

I guess you could say that each new era that Lebron enters and mostly loses in confirms that he's a loser.. Each era that he fails to achieve an "unbeatable" team that mostly wins for a stretch of time confirms that he mostly loses regardless of cast or era.. Btw, being the GOAT means the greatest of ALL-TIME (all eras), and that's MJ by virtue of dominating his peers by more than anyone else dominated theirs.

Glad to see you agree that Lebron plays in the modern era and MJ played in a previous era.

[And1AllDay]

imagine if lil mikey actuallly was in modern era where he had to play some defense and shoot some threes and play against non mechanics and grocery baggers as #2 options (john starks) :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Glad to see you agree that Lebron plays in the modern era and MJ played in a previous era.


That's how hoops works - Lebron played in a few different eras and so did Jordan - Jordan played in the 80's, 90's, and international format, aka shortened line, while Lebron played in the 00's and now the curry "3-point contest" era...

whooptiwhoop.. :confusedshrug:

Ultimately, Jordan dominated his eras more than Lebron and it isn't remotely close based on stats, accolades and winning... And since they played a lot of the same players, this is a pretty big demonstration of Jordan's superiority (outplaying lebron against the same players, aka Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, etc)

[8Ball]

Cliff notes:


Jordan did not play in the modern era. Jordan's era of basketball closer to the 60s than today's game.

[3ba11]

Cliff notes:


Jordan did not play in the modern era. Jordan's era of basketball closer to the 60s than today's game.


Duncan, Kobe, Pierce and many more didn't play in the modern era of maxing out the three-ball either - but it's common knowledge that this modern spacing era and new rules is the easiest era to score of all-time. Everyone says Kobe would average 40 and MJ would average 50.. No one says that about Lebron going back to the 80's or 90's of no spacing and legal physicality

[StrongLurk]

That's how hoops works - Lebron played in a few different eras and so did Jordan - Jordan played in the 80's, 90's, and international format, aka shortened line, while Lebron played in the 00's and now the curry "3-point contest" era...

whooptiwhoop.. :confusedshrug:

Ultimately, Jordan dominated his eras more than Lebron and it isn't remotely close based on stats, accolades and winning... And since they played a lot of the same players, this is a pretty big demonstration of Jordan's superiority (outplaying lebron against the same players, aka Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, etc)

Glad to see you agree that Lebron played his career in the modern era and MJ did not. You melted down so hard over this fact :roll:

[8Ball]

Jordan's 1980s era more similar to the 60s (20 years) vs the 2020s (40 years).

[8Ball]

Glad to see you agree that Lebron played his career in the modern era and MJ did not. You melted down so hard over this fact :roll:

Because he knows vast majority of players in the Jordan era would get quickly Westbrooked, relevant in the era where majority of players didn't shoot 3s and then completely irrelevant overnight.

[StrongLurk]

Looks like the debate is settled and my position is correct.

MJ did not play in the modern era.