Stockton on Lebron "You're taking a helicopter to the top of the mountain"

[bullettooth]

https://x.com/ApexJones22/status/1812876997036482604

Ouch, brutal truth.

[red1]

this indian kid only posts about lebron :oldlol:



another great post from prakesh!!

[guy]

well put

[warriorfan]

this indian kid only posts about lebron :oldlol:



another great post from prakesh!!

we all know you are the indian here apu

P.S. The slurpee machine is still broken I thought you guys were gonna fix it last week

[ImKobe]

Finally, Stockon puts a perfect one-liner on Lebron's legacy, likening it to taking a helicopter to the top of the mountain instead of climbing it. Remember when Barkley said of Lebron "the struggle is part of your legacy." This is what we mean when we say that Lebron's the ultimate cheat. He wants to be known and as someone who climbed the mountain when we've all seen him in that helicopter going to the top, quitting on teams for greener pastures and still crashing that mf 60% of the time. Disqualified.

Beautiful.

[Patrick Chewing]

When Lebron retires, that Lakers team will be in shambles for years to come.

[bullettooth]

this indian kid only posts about lebron :oldlol:

another great post from prakesh!!

This benchod really trying to make it seem like he's not pajeet. Canada needs to start deporting you people en mass. I heard nobody wants your kind there.

[gbaLL]

i = > john $tockton

[Hey Yo]

Quitting on teams for greener pastures??

Cavs lost the most games in the league combined the 4yrs he was gone.

Lakers hadn't done shit and missed the playoffs 5 straight years before LeBron got there.

Someone needs to tell Stockton that he's delusional and that the helicopter never got off the ground after 2010.

[gbaLL]

.. got eye$ in da bak uv my head, so i realize..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru3gH27Fn6E

[Neal Romer]

It's easy for old timers who lucked onto good teams to criticize, because they played in an era where the NBA wasnt striving for parity. They could just stay put and have an 8-12 year window as legitimate contenders.

The luxury tax was implemented in 2001. So Stockton never had to deal with it, because he wasnt relevant anymore by then.

Furthermore, the more teams you add to a league, the harder it is for winners to keep rebuilding through the draft because the draft order gets longer and longer. The NBA added two more teams in 95 and another one in 2004. This again had no impact on the likes of Stockton/Malone or MJ whose teams were in the last couple years of their window, but it did affect the league Lebron played in.

When your impact and leadership are so enormous right away - as an 18 year old - your team cant get any good draft picks anymore, nor can you just sign everyone bc the luxury tax... youre pretty much ****ed. Usually teams get a few years to build talent around a guy. Lebron was an exception because he was just too good.

After taking Curry at #7, the Warriors drafted Udoh the following year at #6. The year after, Klay at #11. The year after, Harrison Barnes at #7. Udoh didnt really pan out but that's four consecutive years in the top 11.

The Thunder got to draft KD, Westbrook, and Harden with consecutive top 5 picks.

After taking Lebron? Cavs picked: 10th, 19th, 30th. And that's when they even had first round picks, in 05 and 07 they didnt.


Lebron's situation was unique and untenable. Stockton oughtta STFU.

[gbaLL]

i want a beastie boys outka$t album, mike d + mca, produced by ad rock w/ sick ad rock feature[$]

[RRR3]

Stockton played with a guy who was better than him his entire career, the absolute lack of self-awareness lmfao

[gbaLL]

no look pa$$

[And1AllDay]

this indian kid only posts about lebron :oldlol:



another great post from prakesh!!

gott his ass haha :oldlol:

[Patrick Chewing]

Stockton played with a guy who was better than him his entire career, the absolute lack of self-awareness lmfao

What does that have to do with anything? What Stockton is saying is true.

[gbaLL]

Kublai Khan

https://www.worldhistory.org/uploads/images/10043.jpg

[ImKobe]

Stockton played with a guy who was better than him his entire career, the absolute lack of self-awareness lmfao

Stockton never hopped teams even though he could've had a better shot at winning elsewhere.

And as far as who the better player was, you can very easily make the argument for Stockton as he was the heart of their offense.

[RRR3]

Stockton never hopped teams even though he could've had a better shot at winning elsewhere.

And as far as who the better player was, you can very easily make the argument for Stockton as he was the heart of their offense.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[tpols]

Quitting on teams for greener pastures??

Cavs lost the most games in the league combined the 4yrs he was gone.

Lakers hadn't done shit and missed the playoffs 5 straight years before LeBron got there.

Someone needs to tell Stockton that he's delusional and that the helicopter never got off the ground after 2010.


Thats... the point chico.

Everytime Lebron leaves a team they're left in shambles because he doesn't foster team chemistry and basically makes everybody cater to his talent.

And don't get us wrong... Lebrons basketball talent is GOAT. But he uses everybody else around him in a subpar way. Jordan may have been an asshole, but he played in a system that allowed everybody to shine.

Just the way it is. It's a shame we didn't see Lebron overcome adversity like he was capable of and instead took some of the cheapest shortcuts of all time.

[8Ball]

LeBron surpassing Jordan has suddenly made the mediocre players of the 90s upset because they can no longer say they got beat by the GOAT. These mediocre players are hanging on to their old era, closer to the 60s in style than the 2020s.

That means their legacy diminishes.

This hurts them deeply, as it should.

[BallsOut]

John Stockton telling everybody what we already know. LeBron only won when he colluded to form superteams with at least 3 all star players. LeBron is the most overrated NBA player of all time. When you examine LeBron’s career carefully you’ll see he could never win with just two all stars on his team like most great NBA players have.

It’s pretty wild that LeBron has even had to play with as many as 5 all star players on his team just to make up for his inadequacy as a basketball player.

[Akhenaten]

It's easy for old timers who lucked onto good teams to criticize, because they played in an era where the NBA wasnt striving for parity. They could just stay put and have an 8-12 year window as legitimate contenders.

The luxury tax was implemented in 2001. So Stockton never had to deal with it, because he wasnt relevant anymore by then.

Furthermore, the more teams you add to a league, the harder it is for winners to keep rebuilding through the draft because the draft order gets longer and longer. The NBA added two more teams in 95 and another one in 2004. This again had no impact on the likes of Stockton/Malone or MJ whose teams were in the last couple years of their window, but it did affect the league Lebron played in.

When your impact and leadership are so enormous right away - as an 18 year old - your team cant get any good draft picks anymore, nor can you just sign everyone bc the luxury tax... youre pretty much ****ed. Usually teams get a few years to build talent around a guy. Lebron was an exception because he was just too good.

After taking Curry at #7, the Warriors drafted Udoh the following year at #6. The year after, Klay at #11. The year after, Harrison Barnes at #7. Udoh didnt really pan out but that's four consecutive years in the top 11.

The Thunder got to draft KD, Westbrook, and Harden with consecutive top 5 picks.

After taking Lebron? Cavs picked: 10th, 19th, 30th. And that's when they even had first round picks, in 05 and 07 they didnt.


Lebron's situation was unique and untenable. Stockton oughtta STFU.

Quality argument. Even though Lebron's playstyle doesn't optimize his teammates' output (unless they're spot up shooters) your take still rings true, he didn't have championship level teammates around in Cleveland (04-10), that's a fact.

[bullettooth]

LeBron surpassing Jordan has suddenly made the mediocre players of the 90s upset because they can no longer say they got beat by the GOAT. These mediocre players are hanging on to their old era, closer to the 60s in style than the 2020s.

That means their legacy diminishes.

This hurts them deeply, as it should.

Stockton was a mediocre player?

[ImKobe]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Saying Malone was better every single year is just not true either, he was better once Stockton declined in the late 90s for sure but before that Stockton had seasons of leading them in most advanced stats (WS/BPM/VORP).

[RRR3]

Saying Malone was better every single year is just not true either, he was better once Stockton declined in the late 90s for sure but before that Stockton had seasons of leading them in most advanced stats (WS/BPM/VORP).
Suddenly you care about advanced stats :ohwell:

[ImKobe]

Suddenly you care about advanced stats :ohwell:

I thought you guys valued BPM & VORP so much. I guess you stopped once Lebron declined huh.

Is it really that crazy to think that Stockton could have been better than Malone in some of those seasons where he averaged 17 ppg & 13-14 assists while also leading the league in steals?

Nash was better than Amare in 2005 despite the PPG difference, right?

[8Ball]

Stockton was a mediocre player?

Compared to today's players, yes, mediocre.


EDIT: I'd take half the starting point guards in today's game over prime Stockton to play in today's NBA and even in the 90s.

[RRR3]

I thought you guys valued BPM & VORP so much. I guess you stopped once Lebron declined huh.

Is it really that crazy to think that Stockton could have been better than Malone in some of those seasons where he averaged 17 ppg & 13-14 assists while also leading the league in steals?

Nash was better than Amare in 2005 despite the PPG difference, right?
Do you ever stop melting down about LeBron? It's embarrassing as ****. Not getting sucked into yet another argument about that, you are OBSESSED. Seek help.

[1987_Lakers]

And as far as who the better player was, you can very easily make the argument for Stockton as he was the heart of their offense.

This is why nobody takes you seriously.

[SATAN]

Such a short sighted boomer comment. Can't expect much more from these bitter old clowns with their unwarranted egos though...

[Lebron23]

How many points did he averaged in the 1998 NBA finals

[SATAN]

Compared to today's players, yes, mediocre.


EDIT: I'd take half the starting point guards in today's game over prime Stockton to play in today's NBA and even in the 90s.

The skill difference between Stockton and Kyrie Irving is actually hilarious and Kyrie is basically a meme...

[ImKobe]

This is why nobody takes you seriously.

There's seasons where he was clearly better than Malone if we go by their production alone but ok.

[Overdrive]

LeBron surpassing Jordan has suddenly made the mediocre players of the 90s upset because they can no longer say they got beat by the GOAT. These mediocre players are hanging on to their old era, closer to the 60s in style than the 2020s.

That means their legacy diminishes.

This hurts them deeply, as it should.

Why couldn't Lebron win while this style was still predominant in the NBA? I thought he only needs a ball?

[red1]

we all know you are the indian here apu

P.S. The slurpee machine is still broken I thought you guys were gonna fix it last week

get a job Sukhdeep

[red1]

gott his ass haha :oldlol:

these Indians are outta control

Prakesh and sukhdeep need to relax :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

Absolutely hated this dirtbag as a player, before he ever opened his mouth. :oldlol: I don't think he's ever said a complimentary word about LeBron, and these were old comments recycled to make some noise lol. If using free agency to "stack teams" is such a magic helicopter: why the hell does it have such a sky high failure rate. How many big 3s and 4s have we seen since 08 that didn't win or even worse failed spectacularly? How many big 3s before that, that maybe younger guys can't remember didn't succeed either? You still have to play the games and find a way to make it work sometimes.

[SATAN]

Why couldn't Lebron win while this style was still predominant in the NBA? I thought he only needs a ball?

Casual alert.

[John8204]

1. John Stockton was better than Karl Malone, John Stockton is the greatest pure PG in the history of the NBA, He constantly was the third or fourth option of scoring on his team and elevated his teammates before he would serve himself. He played hard on both sides of the court and is durability is unmatched amongst 18-20 season players.

2. Lebron James was not at fault for leaving Cleveland, they had years to put a winning a team around him and they failed. You do not control what team you get drafted to, you do not control the front office of your team. Stockton did not have to compete against super teams....Lebron did.

3. It is admirable to stay with one team for your entire career, it is also admirable to adjust your game and win with three different franchises. Everyone acts like rings are the only thing that matters...title runs matter if you make the NBA/Conference finals year after year that shows me you are an all-time great. Wilt had to leave his teams, Bill was able to stay both are all-time greats they just did it in a different way and got different results.

[Axe]

The main problem with him is that he's just too vocal about himself and whatever decisions he's been trying to make for the best of his career. And after all these years, why does he still continue to chase someone who they believe isn't the consensus goat in the league anymore?

Sometimes a little humbleness can be appreciated and letting his own greatness do all the talking instead. Learn how to accept responsibility and be accountable for the shortcomings too. That way, the critics and haters wouldn't be so hostile about him left and right.

[red1]

lebron is a flopping diva but you cant say he didnt have a hard career


he had veterans ganging up on him since he was a kid and still put up a fight...




https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dFqEU6R5RRo/mqdefault.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HB7YjjdDQxA/UHBu2gKRy_I/AAAAAAAABKA/2chEob3qXQI/s640/boston-celtics-defeat-lebron-james.png
https://k.sinaimg.cn/n/sinakd20200325ac/517/w720h597/20200325/edeb-irkazzv1120079.jpg/w700d1q75cms.jpg

[1987_Lakers]

There's seasons where he was clearly better than Malone if we go by their production alone but ok.

Name the seasons.

[Neal Romer]

lebron is a flopping diva but you cant say he didnt have a hard career


he had veterans ganging up on him since he was a kid and still put up a fight...




https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dFqEU6R5RRo/mqdefault.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HB7YjjdDQxA/UHBu2gKRy_I/AAAAAAAABKA/2chEob3qXQI/s640/boston-celtics-defeat-lebron-james.png
https://k.sinaimg.cn/n/sinakd20200325ac/517/w720h597/20200325/edeb-irkazzv1120079.jpg/w700d1q75cms.jpg


Bullseye.

He was going up against all-star fueled dynasties as a player in his early 20s, and his best support was a checked-out Larry Hughes and the fossilized remains of Zydrunas Ilgauskus. Oh and Mo "Panther-O" Williams, whose special power was to make his jumpshot disappear like Houdini in the playoffs.

****in unbelievable man. LeGladiator always battling against enormous odds til his last damn breath.

[dankok8]

Absolutely hated this dirtbag as a player, before he ever opened his mouth. :oldlol: I don't think he's ever said a complimentary word about LeBron, and these were old comments recycled to make some noise lol. If using free agency to "stack teams" is such a magic helicopter: why the hell does it have such a sky high failure rate. How many big 3s and 4s have we seen since 08 that didn't win or even worse failed spectacularly? How many big 3s before that, that maybe younger guys can't remember didn't succeed either? You still have to play the games and find a way to make it work sometimes.

To be fair, most of the ones that stacked the deck and failed were the result of injuries. Talent makes the world go round in the NBA.

With that being said, I don't hold it against Lebron for colluding because his supporting casts were reasonable for a championship-caliber team. And replenishing his casts every couple of years is not completely unique either. Shaq did it as well team hopping as soon as the previous team showed that they can't scale the mountain. Ever since the mid 90's and free agency, guys could do that if they wished to. In the modern NBA, they all do it so Lebron didn't really gain an advantage.

But I get old school guys being salty about it and there's no bigger name to attack than Lebron.

[sdot_thadon]

To be fair, most of the ones that stacked the deck and failed were the result of injuries. Talent makes the world go round in the NBA.

With that being said, I don't hold it against Lebron for colluding because his supporting casts were reasonable for a championship-caliber team. And replenishing his casts every couple of years is not completely unique either. Shaq did it as well team hopping as soon as the previous team showed that they can't scale the mountain. Ever since the mid 90's and free agency, guys could do that if they wished to. In the modern NBA, they all do it so Lebron didn't really gain an advantage.

But I get old school guys being salty about it and there's no bigger name to attack than Lebron.

To be even fairer, injuries are a factor for all contenders not just "stacked" ones. It's part of the game. Nobody raises an eyebrow at Wade's condition constantly deteriorating after 2011 when they talk about the Heat. He definitely was only prime Wade for that season, and they lost. Because it's not a magic helicopter, they had to figure out chemistry and pecking order for whenever they landed in a big spot. That took a season and a terrible loss to figure out. I never held it against Lebron once the initial shock of the move wore off, because almost all great players get to play with other great players at some point in their careers. Why should he be any different? The methodology is just an era thing. The 90s couldn't make moves like those even with free agency available because everyone was more concerned with getting their bag and signing the longest contracts a team would give them lol. But the whole stacking the deck style of team building is proven to be a losing way to go for the most part with a few exceptions.

[red1]

Bullseye.

He was going up against all-star fueled dynasties as a player in his early 20s, and his best support was a checked-out Larry Hughes and the fossilized remains of Zydrunas Ilgauskus. Oh and Mo "Panther-O" Williams, whose special power was to make his jumpshot disappear like Houdini in the playoffs.

****in unbelievable man. LeGladiator always battling against enormous odds til his last damn breath.

https://media.tenor.com/UdKz1P47pg0AAAAM/shannon-sharpe-laugh-hard.gif

[dankok8]

To be even fairer, injuries are a factor for all contenders not just "stacked" ones. It's part of the game. Nobody raises an eyebrow at Wade's condition constantly deteriorating after 2011 when they talk about the Heat. He definitely was only prime Wade for that season, and they lost. Because it's not a magic helicopter, they had to figure out chemistry and pecking order for whenever they landed in a big spot. That took a season and a terrible loss to figure out. I never held it against Lebron once the initial shock of the move wore off, because almost all great players get to play with other great players at some point in their careers. Why should he be any different? The methodology is just an era thing. The 90s couldn't make moves like those even with free agency available because everyone was more concerned with getting their bag and signing the longest contracts a team would give them lol. But the whole stacking the deck style of team building is proven to be a losing way to go for the most part with a few exceptions.

Injuries always matter but most of the superteams that failed did so because of injuries. In fact, I can't think of a super team that failed and were healthy.

Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler - injured
Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton - injured
Kobe/Gasol/Dwight/Nash - injured
Durant/Harden/Kyrie - injured
Kawhi/George/Harden - injured

[ILLsmak]

Compared to today's players, yes, mediocre.


EDIT: I'd take half the starting point guards in today's game over prime Stockton to play in today's NBA and even in the 90s.

lol

-Smak

[bdonovan]

For context, remember that for some people, the idea that a black athlete has influence with the front office is appalling.

Would such people be throwing a fit if say Larry Bird had pull with the front office and could influence personnel decisions?

Of course not. They'd say the best player on the team has the right to a voice in how the team operates.

I laugh when I hear another outburst about LeBron's supposed influence. For one thing, none of these "pundits", not even cheap-shot artist "choir boy" Stockton, has any evidence of what they're claiming. The idea that LeBron has complete authority over a team's lineup etc. is mere conjecture usually by people suffering from a great deal of 'fragility'.

I don't want to make this political but I can't help but notice that the people most fragile at the idea a black athlete has power are these far-right anti-vax, Jan 6 supporters like Stockton and Trump supporter Enes Freedom Kanter. These are the only guys talking about the "horrors" of LeBron's James' power. They wouldn't mind that power themselves, it just haunts them that someone like LeBron may have it.

[bdonovan]

And thumbs up to all the people with their responses racially attacking the OP instead of addressing the substance. You're why this forum has become a joke.

[sdot_thadon]

Injuries always matter but most of the superteams that failed did so because of injuries. In fact, I can't think of a super team that failed and were healthy.

Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler - injured
Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton - injured
Kobe/Gasol/Dwight/Nash - injured
Durant/Harden/Kyrie - injured
Kawhi/George/Harden - injured

You could also confuse that with being old and nothing can overcome bad chemistry. Injuries are part of the game. Are you implying a team that failed because of injuries didn't still fail? Part of the problem is the stage of guys careers they got into some of these squads as well. Here when Barkley came he thought he was a sg taking way too many 3s a game. The reason he did it is because Dream occupied the spot on the floor Barkley was accustomed to operating from and they couldn't figure it out. Sure injuries too. But they played in the playoff series we lost. A big part is chemistry and fit. Most of these guys can't figure out the fit and that's the biggest reason they fail. You get guys together that have played in identical roles and ask them to sacrifice. It's only worked out a few times despite all the attempts. Off the top of my head you can add a few more to the list that failed too for various reasons:

Wilt/Baylor/West
Olajuwon/Pippen/Barkely
Westbrook/Pg//Melo
Westbrook/Harden/Melo

Just throwing 3 stars together isn't a guarantee. No offense to Philly fans but their current squad isn't going to give me any pause until they make the playoffs with Embiid healthy. We've seen this movie enough times already.

[StrongLurk]

White modern republicans hate Lebron. Stockton is a white modern republican.

Nuff said.

[dankok8]

You could also confuse that with being old and nothing can overcome bad chemistry. Injuries are part of the game. Are you implying a team that failed because of injuries didn't still fail? Part of the problem is the stage of guys careers they got into some of these squads as well. Here when Barkley came he thought he was a sg taking way too many 3s a game. The reason he did it is because Dream occupied the spot on the floor Barkley was accustomed to operating from and they couldn't figure it out. Sure injuries too. But they played in the playoff series we lost. A big part is chemistry and fit. Most of these guys can't figure out the fit and that's the biggest reason they fail. You get guys together that have played in identical roles and ask them to sacrifice. It's only worked out a few times despite all the attempts. Off the top of my head you can add a few more to the list that failed too for various reasons:

Wilt/Baylor/West
Olajuwon/Pippen/Barkely
Westbrook/Pg//Melo
Westbrook/Harden/Melo

Just throwing 3 stars together isn't a guarantee. No offense to Philly fans but their current squad isn't going to give me any pause until they make the playoffs with Embiid healthy. We've seen this movie enough times already.

Fit is an issue with some but injuries have derailed most.

Wilt/Baylor/West - Hey wait. These guys actually won a ring together although Baylor was a figurehead who retired earlier in the season! Injuries also ravaged them as well.
Olajuwon/Pippen/Barkely - Not a superteam honestly. These guys were too old.
Westbrook/Pg//Melo - Not a superteam either. Melo was out of his prime already.
Westbrook/Harden/Melo - Definitely not a super team. Melo even older and got injured. Westbrook injured in the playoffs.

But really if you look at all the superteams that failed... Most if not all of them were screwed by injuries. As will probably Embiid/Maxey/PG like you pointed out. As did Lebron/AD/Westbrook. Everyone talked about how Westbrook doesn't fit and all that and there is obviously truth to it but Lebron and AD missing a ton of games is the bigger reason they struggled.

[sdot_thadon]

Fit is an issue with some but injuries have derailed most.

Wilt/Baylor/West - Hey wait. These guys actually won a ring together although Baylor was a figurehead who retired earlier in the season! Injuries also ravaged them as well.
Olajuwon/Pippen/Barkely - Not a superteam honestly. These guys were too old.
Westbrook/Pg//Melo - Not a superteam either. Melo was out of his prime already.
Westbrook/Harden/Melo - Definitely not a super team. Melo even older and got injured. Westbrook injured in the playoffs.

But really if you look at all the superteams that failed... Most if not all of them were screwed by injuries. As will probably Embiid/Maxey/PG like you pointed out. As did Lebron/AD/Westbrook. Everyone talked about how Westbrook doesn't fit and all that and there is obviously truth to it but Lebron and AD missing a ton of games is the bigger reason they struggled.

Injuries have derailed tons of contenders that weren't considered super teams too. Again it's part of the game, but of course people will use the excuses/critiques to serve whatever narrative they're pushing right? Baylor played 9 games the season they won lol. He didn't win shit :oldlol: And it's highly suspect to cite past prime and old as reasons team blank wasn't a superteam but then finish your post talking about Russell Westbrook on the Lakers:biggums:

[RRR3]

Injuries have derailed tons of contenders that weren't considered super teams too. Again it's part of the game, but of course people will use the excuses/critiques to serve whatever narrative they're pushing right? Baylor played 9 games the season they won lol. He didn't win shit :oldlol: And it's highly suspect to cite past prime and old as reasons team blank wasn't a superteam but then finish your post talking about Russell Westbrook on the Lakers:biggums:
He once rigged a poll for Durant after LeBron won it, just so you know what you're dealing with here.


Dude HATES LeBron :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

He once rigged a poll for Durant after LeBron won it, just so you know what you're dealing with here.


Dude HATES LeBron :oldlol:

I remember, the funny poll timing and all.

[dankok8]

Injuries have derailed tons of contenders that weren't considered super teams too. Again it's part of the game, but of course people will use the excuses/critiques to serve whatever narrative they're pushing right? Baylor played 9 games the season they won lol. He didn't win shit :oldlol: And it's highly suspect to cite past prime and old as reasons team blank wasn't a superteam but then finish your post talking about Russell Westbrook on the Lakers:biggums:

My point with the Westbrook example is that injuries were still the main culprit. Despite the redundancy of their skillsets (and yes Westbrook's decline), I'm convinced that a healthy trio of Lebron/AD/Westbrook probably does pretty well and at least makes a serious run at a title.

[sdot_thadon]

My point with the Westbrook example is that injuries were still the main culprit. Despite the redundancy of their skillsets (and yes Westbrook's decline), I'm convinced that a healthy trio of Lebron/AD/Westbrook probably does pretty well and at least makes a serious run at a title.

That's all fine and dandy but the perfect fit next to Russ was the guy that left him in okc. He doesn't create enough spacing at this stage in his career to succeed with others who don't shoot at ii guess an elite level or near it. Guys like Lebron amd AD clearly need floor spacing, even with Russ gone. Can talent and IQ overcome some rough fits? Sure it can when the guys involved are both talented and high iq.

My thing is you're still banging on injuries as if they're some exclusive road block that only happens to superteams when it's waiting in the corner for any team with title aspirations.

[dankok8]

That's all fine and dandy but the perfect fit next to Russ was the guy that left him in okc. He doesn't create enough spacing at this stage in his career to succeed with others who don't shoot at ii guess an elite level or near it. Guys like Lebron amd AD clearly need floor spacing, even with Russ gone. Can talent and IQ overcome some rough fits? Sure it can when the guys involved are both talented and high iq.

My thing is you're still banging on injuries as if they're some exclusive road block that only happens to superteams when it's waiting in the corner for any team with title aspirations.

Injuries affect all teams. The point is that superteams almost always win if not for injuries.

[RRR3]

Injuries affect all teams. The point is that superteams almost always win if not for injuries.
:biggums:

[8Ball]

:biggums:

He doesn't want the 2016, 73 win Warriors to be called super team because then it means LeBron beat a super team, which Jordan never did. It's that simple.

So excuses are used.

[gengiskhan]

https://x.com/ApexJones22/status/1812876997036482604

Ouch, brutal truth.

well said.

MJ built everything piece by piece from "traveling cocaine circus" to NBA's elitest Dynasty ever with "two" 3-peats in a decade.

No collusion. No team hopping. No rings collecting. No bubble rings.

MJ took the beating from Celtics, punishment from Bad Boys, then my beloved NYK then Pacers, and climbed to the Mountain top.

Even if his teammates, beach, mourn, envy, asked for trade, sabotage chemistry thru surgical procedures or backstab by "the jordan rules" book stuff,

MJ's single mindedness, and razer sharp focus on "winning" at all cost and any cost, got him to the top of the mountain over all other GOATs right on top.

once on top, MJ's undying "loyalty" towards his teammate and head coach and towards chicago fans is just too much like a hollywood script.

Once has to question if he was too mythical than real. But, he was just like this from UNC days.

He never complaint about making too little money like Pippen did. MJ was making $3-4 million compared to Shaq and Zo etc.

just brutal work ethic. having too much fun day and late night while at it. blinding ultra-competitive mindset. No chasing some "ghost called wilt."

Having MJ in Back-2-back Finals, Stockton knows this. Glad he called out not just LBJ but that fake imposter like Kobe with helicoptor to mountain. :cheers:

[8Ball]

Bullshit. MJ didn't build a thing.

Jerry Krause handed MJ a super team.

Instead of Pippen and Grant, MJ wanted Joe Wolf.


Jerry Krause saved MJ's legacy.

[Lebron23]

Ring Less John Stockton

[gengiskhan]

Ring Less John Stockton

Lucky LeBitch never had to face him.

If LeBeta is pussified by JJ Barea so easily,

just imagine what Point God Stockton would've done to him.

[brownmamba00]

This one gotta sting a lil bit. Stock probably thinks he'd have 2rings if he faced Bron instead of MJ.

[gengiskhan]

This one gotta sting a lil bit. Stock probably thinks he'd have 2rings if he faced Bron instead of MJ.

Stock will own 2011 LBJ.

LeChoker lost to JJ Barea.

Just imagine a salivating, dawg mentality Stock would've done to 2011 LBJ. just imagine.

Stock was one dirty, slimy, scheming mofo that ever played.

niger like stock come as cold as they can. you never see him coming. MJ hated stock for a reason.

there are stories of stock not just jersey and shorts grabbing but also viciously pinching his man once in a while.

lucky stock did not bite anyone.

[beasted]

After taking Curry at #7, the Warriors drafted Udoh the following year at #6. The year after, Klay at #11. The year after, Harrison Barnes at #7. Udoh didnt really pan out but that's four consecutive years in the top 11.

The Thunder got to draft KD, Westbrook, and Harden with consecutive top 5 picks.

After taking Lebron? Cavs picked: 10th, 19th, 30th. And that's when they even had first round picks, in 05 and 07 they didnt.


Cavs drafted 5 consecutive years in the top 8 while getting LeBron (Lebron 1, Wagner 6, Diop 8, Crawford 8, Miller 8). Some teams just make bad decisions.

The one thing I agree with of the Lebron apologists is that the Cavs were simply a poorly run franchise, before Lebron, during Lebron and after Lebron's first run. Giving a young teenager or early 20s player and his regime that much control demonstrates their ineptitude.

[Phoenix]

No offense to Philly fans but their current squad isn't going to give me any pause until they make the playoffs with Embiid healthy. We've seen this movie enough times already.

Not just Embiid, but I have no reason to think a mid 30s PG13 will make it through an entire season and title run either. We can expect that either he or Embiid will miss several games, this will effect their seeding, and then a good chance one of the two is either unavailable or injured for the playoffs and they'll be out in the second round again ( and I can see first depending on the matchup).