Without LeClutch, Team USA would be getting actually stomped

[Neal Romer]

Not even joking.

But on a serious note, the competitiveness of these games despite the US having a roster full of the NBA's premiere talent proves what Ive been saying forever.

The difference between the "stars", and the rest of the NBA, or other leagues, is not nearly as big as fans think it is. This isnt 1992. Fans think big name stars are orders of magnitude better and more important than... Royce ONeal. Or PJ Washington. Or Daniel Theis. It's just not true.

Outside of the really generational guys: Lebron, Jokic, Curry etc... the difference in game impact among professional players is not huge. I'm not saying theyre all equal. But it's weird how the proportion of money a Bam Adebayo makes over an Ivica Zubac, or Paul George makes over Nic Batum... it's so out of wack in terms of the difference in their impact on the scoreboard. The game impact difference is way less dramatic than what the contracts reflect.

Teams just mindlessly copy other teams formulas with their own players. Big three? Big two? This team maxed Beal so we have to max a comparable guy. But what if your team is average and those guys arent real superstars? Paying them max deals makes no sense. The TWolves once let Andrew Wiggins hold them hostage for a max deal. Let that sink in. The Clippers gave Kawhi a max extension after three straight years of missing the playoffs with injuries. The idea "you need a superstar to win a chip" is irrelevant if youre maxing a guy who's not a real superstar when it matters. Teams always ignore this and just kiss the feet of every third-tier star who "breaks out" with a 20+ ppg season. So shameless.

It's just getting more and more obvious that teams are retarded the way they bow down to "superstars" who arent even real superstars when it matters. The USA team is loaded with a collection of NBA max deal "franchise faces" and without Lebron would be losing to a Sudan team who probably dont even have indoor courts in their country, and a German team whose entire roster has made less in career earnings than Anthony Davis.

Cant wait to see who maxes Brandon Ingraham next.

[Neal Romer]

And actually I think most of the Team USA roster are reasonably legit stars.

But imagine if we sent a team of Lavine, Harden, Ayton, Paul George, Westbrook, KAT...

They would be getting embarrassed on a national stage, and we would have to face the awkward reality all those guys are or recently were on MAX nba contracts. Their lack of heart and/or IQ would be getting humiliated in real international competition. And in the NBA theyre considered max guys.

Just embarrassing for the NBA.

[bdonovan]

Many of the USA stars are incomplete players. Edwards is sensational on offense, but continues to make mistakes in fundamentals like failing to box out. Booker doesn't commit 100% on the defensive end. All the players struggle with team play- each used to leading their own team's offense and dominating the ball.

Individually I still think the US has advantages (although agreed they are narrowing- see South Sudan). Getting them play together is the key and few coaches can manage all these ego's and get them to play that way.

LeBron's been amazing. He's taken his game to yet another level. To be an American and a James critic at this point, honestly GTFO.

[90sgoat]

Good post :cheers:

Now that Lebron is a geriatric, I don't mind giving props where they are due, you can tell he's had a 20 year career and finally after 20 years he is not as afraid of the moment as he was previously.

I definitely agree that the talent issue isn't that great anymore, not to explain the extreme differences in salary. Dennis Schroder can barely make a team in the NBA and in FIBA looks like a god damn superstar. That shouldn't be so, but it is.

Part of it is that the NBA has done everything it can to cater to the most athletic players. Not that it has made the game more entertaining for me, but if you give Lebron, Ant or Giannis a running start, then no one can stop them. In FIBA, the court is smaller, there is a center camping in the lane. You can't just out-athleticism your opponent.

The Sudan game pretty much showed that. It showed that a lot of the US superiority remains athleticism and of course depth.

Which is fine if we want to kind of cheer for track and field athletes, but basketball is a team sport and FIBA is very visibly a grittier, more competitive game, one that requires more of what we usually appreciate in team sports such as fight, teamwork, real leadership etc.

[j3lademaster]

Goes to show nba stars are kind of frauds nowadays. They’re used to being pampered by bailout calls, and if they don’t get them they get frustrated and don’t know what to do. You see stars in the nba who will straight up just run into the defenders body and draw a blocking foul that way, and can’t get around a defender without massive carrying and overdribbling. It also seems like Lebron and Curry are the only ones who understand offball movement, the other guys seem to just stand around and watch. The US vs Germany game makes it seem like if Schroeder was more marketable he’d be averaging 25/8 in the nba purely off of ref favoritism.

[warriorfan]

Havnt they only played exhibition games so far?

Almost everyone is mailing it in right now. I would at least wait for the real games to start.

[gengiskhan]

LeBronze No. 2 Uploading.

[Phoenix]

The USA by far have the biggest names and talent but there's enough international talent out there who are either in the NBA or good enough to be, combined with FIBA rules and the proliferation of the 3pointer. If the US isn't hitting their 3's nor stopping the other team from hitting theirs, you're going to get near losses like we saw against South Sudan.

[Neal Romer]

The USA by far have the biggest names and talent but there's enough international talent out there who are either in the NBA or good enough to be, combined with FIBA rules and the proliferation of the 3pointer. If the US isn't hitting their 3's nor stopping the other team from hitting theirs, you're going to get near losses like we saw against South Sudan.

Thats my point, NBA teams still treat 25 ppg scorers like theyre rare, when the reality is only the opportunity is rare. A lot of guys around the world could score 25 ppg with a green light in the NBA.

But only if youre a top draft pick youre allowed to. If Bol Bol was drafted top 3, his coaches wouldnt care that he doesnt defend, hed be getting 35 minutes and 23 shots per night, and be putting up 27 ppg. His team might not be winning, but as a young prospect putting up heavy ppg theyd feel they have to max him.

If #1 pick John Wall and #44 pick Bol Bol join a team having hypothetically identical play styles, skill level, and ability... Wall will go on to get a rookie max and Bol Bol will be offered 11m/yr in restricted free agency. Bc teams pointlessly double down on their investment into questionable franchise players, leading to bad contracts, while everyone else has to earn it.

Teams designate stars based on arbitrary things and then pay them weirdly disproportionate money relative to what competitive advantage you actually get from them. Players of equal caliber make way less for no intelligent reason.

They think 25 ppg is an automatic difference maker, which it isnt, and even then they randomly pick dudes to "run the offense" and even have a chance to score 25.

It's retarded :roll:

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't mind if the NBA introduced some of FIBA's rules, even something like the ability to tap the ball off the rim. We know they won't bend ballhandling rules or allowed physicality to International standards because the NBA decided decades ago to market stars, and to give them as much leeway as possible to showcase their talents. Rod Strickland would have been Kyrie in the 90s if he could carry the ball like today's players can. Let's not even get into how lax they've gone with travelling.

As far as I'm concerned they lost the plot when they introduced the LED court at the last all-star game. They went full WWE schlock.

[paksat]

some serbian poster on realgm said the nba over in europe is now considered a joke akin to WWE

endless examples of their players going over here and double their scoring with ease

get back to fiba ball and they're bonafide scrubs, there's no hiding it.

The NBA did this to themselves by allowing flopping, carrying, traveling to carry on for over a decade... making the game a complete mockery

I went out to a court and played a few games with some younger dudes that just.. the amount of 4 step "gather steps" they did, it's an utter joke. They wouldn't even be able to get on a court 20 years ago because they'd never get picked

it's embarrassing

[j3lademaster]

Thats my point, NBA teams still treat 25 ppg scorers like theyre rare, when the reality is only the opportunity is rare. A lot of guys around the world could score 25 ppg with a green light in the NBA.:applause:

[Phoenix]

some serbian poster on realgm said the nba over in europe is now considered a joke akin to WWE

endless examples of their players going over here and double their scoring with ease

get back to fiba ball and they're bonafide scrubs, there's no hiding it.

The NBA did this to themselves by allowing flopping, carrying, traveling to carry on for over a decade... making the game a complete mockery

I went out to a court and played a few games with some younger dudes that just.. the amount of 4 step "gather steps" they did, it's an utter joke. They wouldn't even be able to get on a court 20 years ago because they'd never get picked

it's embarrassing

None other than Luka himself said it's much easier scoring in the NBA, and I think that was after his rookie or sophomore season so he hadn't even hit his prime yet.

[gengiskhan]

None other than Luka himself said it's much easier scoring in the NBA, and I think that was after his rookie or sophomore season so he hadn't even hit his prime yet.

no need to listen to some foreign player playing at turtle's pace.

Eye test is enough. Just watch the way game is played up and down.

with 4 out of 5 guys hibernating on 3 point line like winning literally depends on it and it alone.

[SATAN]

In the past 2 games 39 year old LeBron James had 43, 12, 10 on 73% shooting in 20 mpg...

[Phoenix]

no need to listen to some foreign player playing at turtle's pace.

Eye test is enough. Just watch the way game is played up and down.

with 4 out of 5 guys hibernating on 3 point line like winning literally depends on it and it alone.

Lukas comment merely reinforces what the eye test has already shown us.

[tpols]

some serbian poster on realgm said the nba over in europe is now considered a joke akin to WWE

endless examples of their players going over here and double their scoring with ease

get back to fiba ball and they're bonafide scrubs, there's no hiding it.

The NBA did this to themselves by allowing flopping, carrying, traveling to carry on for over a decade... making the game a complete mockery

I went out to a court and played a few games with some younger dudes that just.. the amount of 4 step "gather steps" they did, it's an utter joke. They wouldn't even be able to get on a court 20 years ago because they'd never get picked

it's embarrassing


I've been saying that for years. It's just an entertainment league, like your favorite Netflix series or whatever.

[ShawkFactory]

no need to listen to some foreign player playing at turtle's pace.

Eye test is enough. Just watch the way game is played up and down.

with 4 out of 5 guys hibernating on 3 point line like winning literally depends on it and it alone.

Yea it seems like no one other than Lebron and Curry, and maybe Jrue, know how to play without the ball.

[Manny98]

Yea it seems like no one other than Lebron and Curry, and maybe Jrue, know how to play without the ball.

Got a bunch of low IQ winless bums like Embiid and Booker on this team that may end up costing team USA

It's not a good look when you're having to rely on a 40 year old to carry the team,.USA have looked lost whenever LeBron is off the court, Holiday and White have been decent

I'm rooting against team USA purely because I don't want to see Embiid winning a cheap gold medal

[3ba11]

They would have a far better team and chemistry without Lebron's ball-dominance, so they wouldn't be having any close calls - the only area they trail opponents is chemistry and that would improve without Lebron