A 15 ppg wing that defends well and can hit threes is worth 200 mil...right?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I am not criticizing anyone's contract here, just wondering if this what the standard is now. It's kind of wild to think that the 4th-best player on a team can now pull 50+ mil per year. I'm not begrudging them the money, I tell my kids to take every dollar they can get. I just wonder if this might not be a good deal for the Knicks.

To avoid a played-out conversation let me just outline that by "bad" we should be talking about a player/contract that the team wants to move but will have to give up for nothing or trade assets to get rid of. So for example, Bradley Beal's contract is now bad for Phoenix but wasn't bad for Washington because they got assets out of signing him when they found a trade partner. They had to find a sucker but the miracle has been worked.

The cap can increase by a maximum of 10% every year, and I think I read somewhere (so feel free to correct me if you have a reliable source to post that disagrees) that the previous two years it went up the full 10% and next year goes up 3. With that 77billion tv deal we can expect the cap to go up 10% every year for the foreseeable future.

So with that knowledge, approaching it from the perspective of the fan (just concerned with team-building, how profitable a team is doesn't matter to us until and unless the team owner isn't willing to pay), do any of our amateur capologists think OG Anunoby's deal is going to be a problem?

[warriorfan]

You finna talk about Bradly Beal?

*cracks fingers*

[Carbine]

Why would it be a problem? He's a great player who does a lot of little things exceptional well. There's a reason they were so dominant with him in the lineup. He's literally the perfect player for his role on the team. Like Jrue for Boston but as a small forward.

For the Knicks is obviously will not be a problem because Brunson took way less money. And it appears Bridges will follow in Brunsons footsteps.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why would it be a problem? He's a great player who does a lot of little things exceptional well. There's a reason they were so dominant with him in the lineup. He's literally the perfect player for his role on the team. Like Jrue for Boston but as a small forward.

For the Knicks is obviously will not be a problem because Brunson took way less money. And it appears Bridges will follow in Brunsons footsteps.It would be a problem if they can't win a championship with him, can't make the deal(s) they need to due to the first or second apron, and the size of his contract vs production makes him the player they need to move most.

I'm not sure that he's overpaid because it's still not clear what "overpaid" means with all of this money coming in but of the new deals signed this offseason he seems to be one of the more likely deals to be regretted, and every deal isn't going to work out well.

Also, how many players would you say are "great?" Because I don't believe a serious All-Star discussion has ever included Anunoby. I think he would be a starter on most teams but I'm not sure.

[Kblaze8855]

Tim Thomas averaged 13 and five on a 9th seed While making the modern cap equivalent of $39.8 million.

The dollar figures just weren’t big enough for us to keep talking about it.

We are coming up on men in Black territory.

there was always an intergalactic death ray or something, but people can only get along with their lives because they do not know about it.

By percentage of the cap there have always been $200 million middling players. You just didn’t know about it.

[Kblaze8855]

Tim Thomas averaged 13 and five on a 9th seed While making the modern cap equivalent of $39.8 million.

The dollar figures just weren’t big enough for us to keep talking about it.

We are coming up on men in Black territory.


https://youtu.be/xHVE7L00v-E?feature=shared


By percentage of the cap there have always been $200 million middling players. You just didn’t know about it. The numbers got big enough for fans to take notice because the league makes more money now than the NFL did a few years ago, but the NFL has thousands of players a season not hundreds.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't think Thomas was ruinous for the Bucks or whoever else but I would bet the team had regrets.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m sure we all regret a lot of things that aren’t particularly uncommon.

Tim Thomas and Brian Grant were the 41st and 42nd highest paid players in the league. Next year that would be Desmond Bane and DeAndre Ayton. Relative to the cap they make less than Grant and Thomas. Grant gave you 10/10 on a 25 win team.

like I said there is always an intergalactic death ray. You just figure it out. Heat used grant to match salary to trade for Shaq a couple years later.

This is an old old game and it hasn’t changed as much as we think it has. Role players have been getting this money and in many cases a lot more for decades. If all they listed next to a contract announcement was percentage of cap and they laid them all out throughout history? You wouldn’t even notice these guys contracts.

Depending on the rules in place, it might mean more or less to ability to build a team, but the money has been there. As the revenue goes up, the owners have been able to justify paying the players a smaller percentage of it. You don’t wanna see what contracts would be if players got the percentage of revenue they were on in the mid 2000s.

The system is in place to limit the pay to the all-time greats in exchange for raising the pay of everybody else. It just created a wider upper class and eliminated what would be the top level.

The NBA has eliminated one percenters. And they did it by making the top 10% the new one percenters.

They literally spread the wealth to limit the downside of bad contracts and fans can’t see it because the dollar figures rise for lesser players, which was exactly the point. Nobody makes enough money you can’t put Another superstar or even two next to them. Ewing used to make the modern equal of $90 million at one point. And we wonder why his second option was John Starks?

Middle guys make 200 million so Kawhi Leonard doesn’t make 410 and leave you with a noncompetitive team when he gets hurt. You can have him and Paul George, so even when signing him proved unwise, your team is watchable and can win playoff games and even a series.

This is the system working exactly as it was designed. Paying good players 200 protects you from the mistakes that really kill you. The cba is the owners protecting themselves from themselves.

you can pay anybody anything when A super max still lets you pay two other Max players.

they widened the middle to increase the number of good players you could have at once while minimizing risk. One of your three Max or near Max players can’t go? You still have a competitive lineup. The one man army lineups created by the CBA of a couple decades ago left no room for error.

they rigged the rules against the defense to manufacture more high scoring stars. At the same time they rigged the CBA to let you pay more of them at the same time. Business these people know what they’re doing. They managed to manufacture the appearance of 80s talent and super teams without going back to the free-for-all CBA of those times.

[Carbine]

They're going to a title run. It's incredibly hard to win a title, that franchise hasn't won in over 50 years right?

Keeping OG won't be a regret. They're going for it, which is all you can ask of a franchise when they're close.

What was the alternative, let him walk and resign the big who went to OKC? It's clear as day to me they made the right decision.

OG is at his peak right now. They needed to keep him to really go for a title run the next few years.

[Real Men Wear Green]

They're going to a title run. It's incredibly hard to win a title, that franchise hasn't won in over 50 years right?

Keeping OG won't be a regret. They're going for it, which is all you can ask of a franchise when they're close.

What was the alternative, let him walk and resign the big who went to OKC? It's clear as day to me they made the right decision.

OG is at his peak right now. They needed to keep him to really go for a title run the next few years.A key disagreement for me is not seeing this team as being "close." They were the 2 seed but still 14 games behind the 1 seed. They are now seriously flawed when it comes to the center position which will lead to issues with rebounding and rim protection. Anunoby is a better player than Hartenstein but they now have three good wings and a scoring point guard but just one big and that big, Mitchell Robinson, historically has a hard time staying on the floor. I think they are counting on a deal that moves Julius Randle for a good defensive center. That's not unrealistic but it still has to be done.

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t know that they’re close. They’re Knicks close. And that has historically been a very amusing time for me. The number of moves the Knicks have made to be “Knicks close”….

Melo and Amare.
Larry Johnson.
Sprewell.

When Riley got there.

When Jordan retired and there was supposedly nobody to stop them.

All good times.

[tpols]

OG is one of the most versatile defensive players in the game and the Knicks already have two 25+ ppg scorers in Bridges and Brunson. It's a great move for them, another 20 ppg scorer would just yield diminishing returns ala Pheonix Beal.

[Carbine]

Bridges has BARELY eclipsed 20 ppg one season of his career.

Now he's a 25ppg scorer?

[RRR3]

OG is one of the most versatile defensive players in the game and the Knicks already have two 25+ ppg scorers in Bridges and Brunson. It's a great move for them, another 20 ppg scorer would just yield diminishing returns ala Pheonix Beal.
Bridges scored 19.6 PPG last year.

[tpols]

Bridges scored 19.6 PPG last year.

And he averaged 26 ppg with Brooklyn the year before that. He's obviously a very talented scorer. And he plays defense. Healthy Knicks are gonna be dangerous.

[RRR3]

And he averaged 26 ppg with Brooklyn the year before that. He's obviously a very talented scorer. And he plays defense. Healthy Knicks are gonna be dangerous.
In 27 games after the All-Star break :roll:

Fakest stats ever, you probably thought Mike James scoring 20 PPG was legit back in the day.

[tpols]

Yea... that's a decent sample size. Bridges was balling after the trade from Pheonix and it's gonna be more of the same in NY especially as the 1B to Brunsons 1A. You guys clearly haven't seen him play. His jumper is buttery smooth, he's got very fluid athleticism, high IQ, and somehow very durable despite his slight build.


https://youtu.be/Q3Hyy8g7wUI?si=H88MgKR3gKddmffm

That was one of his first games after coming over from the suns where he was lower on the pecking order. Its gonna end up being an awesome signing for New York.


And as far as OG goes he just has to stay healthy. He's the size of a PF but moves and defends like a guard which is extremely valuable especially in thibs defensive system. He's literally exactly what they need.

[RRR3]

19.6 PPG on bad efficiency on a garbage team was the best he could muster up in a full season :oldlol:

Ttrolls: WOW SUPERSTAR!

[Real Men Wear Green]

Bridges could average 25. But he won't. Every player could average more points with a bigger role. Bridges getting points for 27 games on a team that had one streaky scorer other than himself whose name I've forgotten means nothing regarding what he will do on a team with a scoring point guard and a PF that averaged 24 (or something). It could change if they move Randle for Jarrett Allen or something like that but so long as Brunson and Randle are healthy and on the team a normal game for Bridges will be 17 to 22 points. He's not averaging 25 with two big scorers.

[tpols]

If the Knicks can just trade Randle for a Gafford type to spell Robinson and keep him healthy their defense is gonna be insane. Bridges, Divencenzo and OG defending on the perimeter is a nightmare and Robinson is a great shot blocking center. With Thibs as Professor X mastermind. They just need some depth to keep everybody fresh over the long season.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If the Knicks can just trade Randle for a Gafford type to spell Robinson and keep him healthy their defense is gonna be insane. Bridges, Divencenzo and OG defending on the perimeter is a nightmare and Robinson is a great shot blocking center. With Thibs as Professor X mastermind. They just need some depth to keep everybody fresh over the long season.
Thibs doesn't use depth. His players just have to be able to take the minutes. The Nova guys so far are up for it. Mitchell Robinson on the other hand so far definitely is not. They are going to need to make a deal for a center. They haven't yet, which is one of the reasons they are not close.

[tpols]

A team that made the Finals beating multiple top seeds out west without HCA wasn't close? What? :oldlol:

They were literally the closest a team could possibly be to winning outside the team that actually won. But they had to go through a gauntlet compared Boston who had the easiest path to the Finals of all time perhaps.

You're going to be in for a rude awakening in next year's playoffs lmao.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That actually would make them very close. We saw it happen with the Mavs last year where they added 1 role player center and PJ and went from play in team to the 2nd best team in the league almost immediately. And New York has already added way more than that this off season by getting Bridges.

Boston isn't going to be as hungry next year since they already won and won't have the biggest joke path ever again to rest up for literally one legit series where the opposing team wasn't crippled with injury.

A fully healthy Knicks would have a great chance at beating them which is why you're scared and making threads like this to reassure yourself.

There's no need to be afraid my friend. Challenge is good. We don't need another snoozefest cupcake run.Dallas wasn't close at all. They got beat 4-1, and the games in Boston where Porzingis played they were getting annihilated. You also thought Dallas was going to beat the Celtics of course. May be time for you to face the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. Unlike you I'm smart enough to know that my posts don't effect who wins or loses. That's not why I made this topic. If I was to rate the threats to the Celtics the Bucks would be #1 and then Philly because the hardest thing for the Cs to counter is a scoring, bruising big. Exactly what the Knicks don't have. Denver is third because they're in the other conference, otherwise they would be #1. I made this topic because I'm genuinely not sure what qualifies as overpaid. I figure handing a good roleplayer something near the max might be it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

A team that made the Finals beating multiple top seeds out west without HCA wasn't close? What? :oldlol:

They were literally the closest a team could possibly be to winning outside the team that actually won. But they had to go through a gauntlet compared Boston who had the easiest path to the Finals of all time perhaps.

You're going to be in for a rude awakening in next year's playoffs lmao.Not having home court because they didn't win enough games is just another symptom of not being close. Being crushed by the team that won does not prove that you are close to that team. That's idiot logic. Boston had it easy because of injuries but also because the top seed is supposed to have it easy. Because they're better than Dallas they get to face a play-in team in the first round. And the Celtics lost their third-best player to injury for much of the playoffs, you just choose to ignore that fact because it hurts your narrative. But please continue to hold your breath waiting for the Celtics to fade.

[tpols]

. Boston had it easy because of injuries

Yes that's been established. Every team they faced for the 1st three rounds was missing their best player so they had a free ride to rest for the Finals and be fresh unlike teams out West.



because the top seed is supposed to have it easy. Because they're better than Dallas they get to face a play-in team in the first round.



Correction. They got to face a play-in team without Jimmy Butler... the same play-in team that spanked them in the ECFs in 2023 the year prior.

And that had nothing to do with Bostons record. They just got incredibly lucky with their playoff path and everybody pretty much acknowledges it.

It's wildly improbable they luck out with a path like that next year again.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes that's been established. Every team they faced for the 1st three rounds was missing their best player so they had a free ride to rest for the Finals and be fresh unlike teams out West.The 1st seed almost always dominates the 8th seed. You may be dumb enough to think a 64 win teasm loses in the first round though.

Correction. They got to face a play-in team without Jimmy Butler... the same play-in team that spanked them in the ECFs in 2023 the year prior.

And that had nothing to do with Bostons record. They just got incredibly lucky with their playoff path and everybody pretty much acknowledges it.

It's wildly improbable they luck out with a path like that next year again."Spanked" would be if Miami had beat them 4-1 constantly blowing them out. Like what happened to Dallas. In '23 the Celtics lost in 7 games. And then they brought in two new starters in Holiday and Porzingis, making them a much better team. Last season's results are completely irrelevant. If everyone was healthy nothing would have been different, regardless of you being stupid enough to think one of the teams in a conference the Celtics won by 14 games was going to stop them. You keep on fighting reality though. Please hold breath.

[tpols]

That's the point... Zingis didn't play in the eastern playoffs. Their path allowed him to be rested for months because they were facing cans. And they only looked dominant with him playing.

Jrue is nice, but if Boston had to face healthy Bucks or current Knicks or the Heat with Jimmy Butler they either would've got knocked out by one of them as has happened in the past... we've already seen that experiment in reality... or they would've beat them and been more banged up for the Finals, like Dallas was.

Boston blew Dallas out in 2 games, Dallas blew Boston out in 1 game and the other two games were decided by like 6 points. You have a warped memory for what actually happened.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So the Celtics were lucky to rest Porzingis because he was injured.

You're an idiot.

[tpols]

Zingis is always injured. He's never finished a single playoff run in his entire career last year included. That's built in. Butler, Giannis, Haliburton, Mitchell etc. won't always be injured. And the Knicks won't either.

The last time Boston faced a healthy Eastern Conference team in the playoffs was the 8 seeded Miami Heat and they lost.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So Butler doesn't miss 20 games every year and Embiid hasn't been hurt all the way back to missing his rookie year and Giannis hasn't been knocked out of the last two postseasons...no, other teams are unlucky but Porzingis should be expected to be unhealthy.

You're truly bad at this.

[iamgine]

Worth is relative.

I think what you mean is market value.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Market value is just what something can be sold for. So if someone will pay him 200 mil then that's the end of the discussion.

[iamgine]

Not really. You're talking about worth again, not market value.

[Real Men Wear Green]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/market%20value

market valuenoun (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noun)




Synonyms of market value
(https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/market+value)
: the price at which something can be sold : the price that buyers are willing to pay for somethingdetermining the car's market value

The house sold below market value.

[iamgine]

Notice the s behind buyers

[Real Men Wear Green]

Notice the s behind buyers
That's not much of a point. He got that money without entering free agency. The Knicks must have figured that having to bid against other teams they could end up either having to pay him even more or losing his services entirely.

[iamgine]

That's not much of a point. He got that money without entering free agency. The Knicks must have figured that having to bid against other teams they could end up either having to pay him even more or losing his services entirely.

They could. Or they could not.

[Real Men Wear Green]

They could. Or they could not.

Point being they paid him this money and thought that if they didn't things could be worse. So there is solif evidence for the 200 million being market value. The "evidence" against it would just be to compare his contract to other players and contracts. But there's no apples to apples comparison to be made there. That's why I'm just wondering if it will be something they regret down the line.

[NBAGOAT]

OG has a good chance of being the 2nd best player on a contender not 4th. That's worth 40 mil/yr on paper for sure even if there are many better players who are 2nd guys. Bridges isnt nearly as good as OG on defense even if he is a better scorer, OG is a perennial all-nba defender who impacts defense like a big. Rudy gobert had some argument being worth even more of the cap right even though he's a 4th-5th option? randle isnt impactful enough overall and there's some trade rumors with him. OG overpaid but not because of his lvl of play, he has some injury issues

[NBAGOAT]

If the Knicks can just trade Randle for a Gafford type to spell Robinson and keep him healthy their defense is gonna be insane. Bridges, Divencenzo and OG defending on the perimeter is a nightmare and Robinson is a great shot blocking center. With Thibs as Professor X mastermind. They just need some depth to keep everybody fresh over the long season.

no they need randle or someone else who isnt a role player on offense. You have too much faith in bridges to be a 2nd option. Brunson carrying your offense with their defense can be really good but you need a 2nd legit shot creator to beat boston/okc etc to win a title

[iamgine]

Point being they paid him this money and thought that if they didn't things could be worse. So there is solif evidence for the 200 million being market value. The "evidence" against it would just be to compare his contract to other players and contracts. But there's no apples to apples comparison to be made there. That's why I'm just wondering if it will be something they regret down the line.

That's....not solid evidence of anything.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That's....not solid evidence of anything.
It's 212 million dollars of solid evidence actually. I don't argue when the proof is right there.