How to use Wemby for winning basketball?

[90sgoat]

I have watched Wemby this olympics and honestly he has made France worse. He's an incredible talent, but the way he's being used, standing around at the 3 point line etc, it is losing basketball.

He takes up so much space too, playing him and Gobert packs the pain, but Wemby doesn't have the post moves yet.

Imo, if Pop doesn't begin teaching him post moves, rim running and bulking up, then it will be a mistake.

He won't become a superstar unless he begins thinking inside-out and attacking the basket.

[Im Still Ballin]

I agree with the general points. But the France situation is unique.

Play the center position and focus on being the primary screener and dribble hand-off hub. Embrace strength and conditioning to become a more potent post-up threat, deep sealer, and interior finisher. Priority should be applying immense rim and foul pressure, working off the ball to establish great positioning for scoring and offensive rebounding opportunities.

That's the 80%. He'll get 5-6+ assists off those short-roll/DHO plays alone due to his exceptional vision and passing. He may not ever be the deep paint guy I dream he could be, but I'm more confident that he could be a Kareem-type. Average shot distance a little further out but just exceptional shot making in the paint-extended region. And instead of sky hooks it's unblockable close-in jumpers.

The three-point shooting, PnR ball handling, playing like a guard, outside-in stuff? That's the 20%. The icing on the cake.

I fear his issue may be that he's focusing on the 20% when he should be focusing on the 80%. But we'll see what happens in year 2.

[Carbine]

Wemby is leading them in every category.

He is scoring 17 a game on 61 TS.

11 boards a game with 2 blocks and 3 steals.

France problem is they have one of the worst if not the worst guard rotation in the entire tournament and Gobert is playing like a bum relative to expectations. He is averaging 6/6 and leading the team in turnovers somehow.

You're falling into the trap of blaming the star player for the poor play of "the others "

[Xiao Yao You]

Ben Golliver: France coach Vincent Collet on Victor Wembanyama in Germany loss: “He stopped the ball too much. Against that kind of aggressiveness, you can’t play that way. You are never 1-on-1 because they come to double team and there’s no space to operate. It’s important to move the ball.” – via x.com

[ImKobe]

Wemby is leading them in every category.

He is scoring 17 a game on 61 TS.

11 boards a game with 2 blocks and 3 steals.

France problem is they have one of the worst if not the worst guard rotation in the entire tournament and Gobert is playing like a bum relative to expectations. He is averaging 6/6 and leading the team in turnovers somehow.

You're falling into the trap of blaming the star player for the poor play of "the others "

Nailed it. I don't see how Wemby is the problem here. He's shot 43.8% from 3 so he's actually done a great job on the perimeter. He leads them in damn near everything and is the reason that they're even relevant at this point. France just doesn't have enough talent.

[90sgoat]

Watch the games!

His stats are good, but he is stopping ball movement and play execution. France had a system that led them to gold and Wemby can't fit into it.

They have to play differently, but it's also on Wemby to adjust.

It's true though that France is really missing a point guard. Nando De Colo is now 37 years old and he was a big reason they won gold. I don't know why they don't start him anyway.

[ILLsmak]

Put him around the "Tim Duncan spot," maybe closer to the edge of the paint/FT line to give him maximum floor space to pass over or shoot over people. Have him shoot that shot over and over and over again until it's all day. The only 3s he should should should be wide open. He shouldn't be rim running because that's gonna get him injured. He should save his energy for defense. Once they get the ball where the soft spot of a zone would be, just let him do his thing or pass to a cutter. Easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtBe3KPm5GQ

Nobody can stop this. Low effort. Look at how much worse the shots are when he dribbles more. He can use those shots if it's a late clock situation, but he should just get used to going to a spot, getting the ball and going to work. Nobody can guard him or even contest him. All he needs to do is focus on making those shots.

-Smak

[90sgoat]

I agree with the general points. But the France situation is unique.

Play the center position and focus on being the primary screener and dribble hand-off hub. Embrace strength and conditioning to become a more potent post-up threat, deep sealer, and interior finisher. Priority should be applying immense rim and foul pressure, working off the ball to establish great positioning for scoring and offensive rebounding opportunities.

That's the 80%. He'll get 5-6+ assists off those short-roll/DHO plays alone due to his exceptional vision and passing. He may not ever be the deep paint guy I dream he could be, but I'm more confident that he could be a Kareem-type. Average shot distance a little further out but just exceptional shot making in the paint-extended region. And instead of sky hooks it's unblockable close-in jumpers.

The three-point shooting, PnR ball handling, playing like a guard, outside-in stuff? That's the 20%. The icing on the cake.

I fear his issue may be that he's focusing on the 20% when he should be focusing on the 80%. But we'll see what happens in year 2.


Exactly, he doesn't have to learn the skyhook, though he would actually be completely unstoppable if he did, but if he can just be a better Porzingis at the elbow, then that would also be unstoppable. I think he likes the baseline more though, so maybe learn from Dirk and KG. Heck, even LaMarcus Aldridge could teach him how to play that position.

Have the ability to get the ball at the elbow, shoot, drive, pass. He has really good court vision and passing IQ. Have a bunch of cutters around him, like the Spurs team of old, Parker/Manu types.

[90sgoat]

Put him around the "Tim Duncan spot," maybe closer to the edge of the paint/FT line to give him maximum floor space to pass over or shoot over people. Have him shoot that shot over and over and over again until it's all day. The only 3s he should should should be wide open. He shouldn't be rim running because that's gonna get him injured. He should save his energy for defense. Once they get the ball where the soft spot of a zone would be, just let him do his thing or pass to a cutter. Easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtBe3KPm5GQ

Nobody can stop this. Low effort. Look at how much worse the shots are when he dribbles more. He can use those shots if it's a late clock situation, but he should just get used to going to a spot, getting the ball and going to work. Nobody can guard him or even contest him. All he needs to do is focus on making those shots.

-Smak

Yep, I agree, should be a midrange monster, have teammates run that back cut for easy assists.

[Im Still Ballin]

My fear for Wemby is that because he's shown such great promise playing like a guard, he might focus on it too much to the detriment of playing big inside. His three-point shooting, PnR ball handling, and close-out dribble-drive attacks are exciting but they're not yet potent enough that they should be a priority over his roll, cut, DHO, post-up, and seal potential.

I want to see him playing like Sabonis most of the time. The threes and inverted PnRs should be there in select doses.

Keep hitting the weights, get enough beef on the bone while staying lean, flexible, and mobile. Added strength, power, and weight will allow him to do Sabonis numbers but 25-30 ppg instead of 18-20 ppg. Recipe for best two-way player in the NBA.

25-30 ppg, 12-14 rpg, 6-8 apg, 1.5 spg, 4 bpg with 60-65% TS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flt_sY0mu1A

[ILLsmak]

My fear for Wemby is that because he's shown such great promise playing like a guard, he might focus on it too much to the detriment of playing big inside. His three-point shooting, PnR ball handling, and close-out dribble-drive attacks are exciting but they're not yet potent enough that they should be a priority over his roll, cut, DHO, post-up, and seal potential.

I want to see him playing like Sabonis most of the time. The threes and inverted PnRs should be there in select doses.

Keep hitting the weights, get enough beef on the bone while staying lean, flexible, and mobile. Added strength, power, and weight will allow him to do Sabonis numbers but 25-30 ppg instead of 18-20 ppg. Recipe for best two-way player in the NBA.

25-30 ppg, 12-14 rpg, 6-8 apg, 1.5 spg, 4 bpg with 60-65% TS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flt_sY0mu1A

What is weight/str gonna give him, though?

He's so big that you can't push him around. I guess you can push against him to affect his J, but he's got enough rise to where he should be able to correct. He's too big and gangly to push off the block. You can move him around, but it's all in areas where he'd want to catch it. He doesn't gain much by being able to hold his ground imo. Just let people push him until it's time to catch, then they can't touch him and he rises up.

Have you seen his body? Obviously he has to 'become an adult,' but I really disagree with him having to focus on adding weight as if that's going to matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuM7VVW7foc

He's pretty much good to go physically, imo. KD when he came out wasn't built like that. Manute bol wasn't built like that, Shawn Bradley, etc.

Edit: and he can get get 20 ppg just off of contested mids, the rest will be up to the flow of the game.

Also, if you want him bigger to rebound and such, I dunno. I think it's too much to have him in there as your main rebounder; he'll still get a bunch. Get a 6'8 guy to bang with people. You don't want your best jump shot scorer taking elbows to the face.

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

What is weight/str gonna give him, though?

He's so big that you can't push him around. I guess you can push against him to affect his J, but he's got enough rise to where he should be able to correct. He's too big and gangly to push off the block. You can move him around, but it's all in areas where he'd want to catch it. He doesn't gain much by being able to hold his ground imo. Just let people push him until it's time to catch, then they can't touch him and he rises up.

Have you seen his body? Obviously he has to 'become an adult,' but I really disagree with him having to focus on adding weight as if that's going to matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuM7VVW7foc

He's pretty much good to go physically, imo. KD when he came out wasn't built like that. Manute bol wasn't built like that, Shawn Bradley, etc.

Edit: and he can get get 20 ppg just off of contested mids, the rest will be up to the flow of the game.

Also, if you want him bigger to rebound and such, I dunno. I think it's too much to have him in there as your main rebounder; he'll still get a bunch. Get a 6'8 guy to bang with people. You don't want your best jump shot scorer taking elbows to the face.

-Smak

Bradley gained 70 lbs after his freshman year of college

[Kblaze8855]

I watched only one and a half of their games so far, but he definitely wasn’t the problem at any point of that time.

[90sgoat]

I watched only one and a half of their games so far, but he definitely wasn’t the problem at any point of that time.

It's not only on Wemby, but he is part of the problem. The main issue is that Nando De Colo, who was the best player and point guard for France is old and they have no one to run their team now.

[red1]

he's going to dominate on Tuesday against canada


we dont have any good bigs

[90sgoat]

he's going to dominate on Tuesday against canada


we dont have any good bigs

I don't see any situation in which France wins.

The difference between Shai, Brook, RJ etc and the french guards is simply insurmountable.

[Im Still Ballin]

What is weight/str gonna give him, though?

He's so big that you can't push him around. I guess you can push against him to affect his J, but he's got enough rise to where he should be able to correct. He's too big and gangly to push off the block. You can move him around, but it's all in areas where he'd want to catch it. He doesn't gain much by being able to hold his ground imo. Just let people push him until it's time to catch, then they can't touch him and he rises up.

Have you seen his body? Obviously he has to 'become an adult,' but I really disagree with him having to focus on adding weight as if that's going to matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuM7VVW7foc

He's pretty much good to go physically, imo. KD when he came out wasn't built like that. Manute bol wasn't built like that, Shawn Bradley, etc.

Edit: and he can get get 20 ppg just off of contested mids, the rest will be up to the flow of the game.

Also, if you want him bigger to rebound and such, I dunno. I think it's too much to have him in there as your main rebounder; he'll still get a bunch. Get a 6'8 guy to bang with people. You don't want your best jump shot scorer taking elbows to the face.

-Smak

He gets pushed off his spots right now. When he cuts to the basket, posts up, seals off movement, drives to the basket, and takes jump shots. His lack of strength, power, and size affects his finishing in the paint, at the rim, and through contact.

At 7'5" in shoes and 230 pounds, his high center of gravity makes it easy to get under him and put him off balance. He's effective in spite of this but it's about maximizing his efficacy in these circumstances.

He needs to focus first and foremost on the easy baskets. The off-ball stuff in the half-court you expect from an athletic center: the rolls, cuts, dives, seals, post-ups, and offensive rebounds. And then the dynamic elements that introduce his ball handling, slashing, jump shooting, and passing; things like fake dribble hand-offs, short-roll actions, pick-and-pops, and attacking close-outs.

The PnR ball handling, off-the-dribble pullup shooting, isolation off-the-dribble guard/perimeter stuff is the last piece of the puzzle. The cherry on top of the pie.

He's going to be good whatever he does. Whether he stays 220-230 pounds or gets up to 250-260, but it's about the principle of maximizing one's potential. And getting stronger, more powerful, and bigger is crucial to his ultimate potential efficacy, especially in the paint.

He had a game in his rookie year where he dunked 9 times in one half. He could legit dunk 15+ times in a game. The record is 13 by Shaq. David Robinson had 12 once. He could legit be a bigger Giannis/David Robinson at the rim - with a soft touch, shooting stroke, and a bag of tricks and counters to boot. But he needs to get stronger and more explosive to become that.

Limiting him to a Kevin Durant, lightweight finesse game would be a disgrace and a colossal waste of GOAT talent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYYPJfXX6M

[3ba11]

People don't realize that the rim is only 10 feet, so there's a point where more height is BAD

[1987_Lakers]

People don't realize that the rim is only 10 feet, so there's a point where more height is BAD

You were wrong about Wemby

[ILLsmak]

He gets pushed off his spots right now. When he cuts to the basket, posts up, seals off movement, drives to the basket, and takes jump shots. His lack of strength, power, and size affects his finishing in the paint, at the rim, and through contact.

At 7'5" in shoes and 230 pounds, his high center of gravity makes it easy to get under him and put him off balance. He's effective in spite of this but it's about maximizing his efficacy in these circumstances.

He needs to focus first and foremost on the easy baskets. The off-ball stuff in the half-court you expect from an athletic center: the rolls, cuts, dives, seals, post-ups, and offensive rebounds. And then the dynamic elements that introduce his ball handling, slashing, jump shooting, and passing; things like fake dribble hand-offs, short-roll actions, pick-and-pops, and attacking close-outs.

The PnR ball handling, off-the-dribble pullup shooting, isolation off-the-dribble guard/perimeter stuff is the last piece of the puzzle. The cherry on top of the pie.

He's going to be good whatever he does. Whether he stays 220-230 pounds or gets up to 250-260, but it's about the principle of maximizing one's potential. And getting stronger, more powerful, and bigger is crucial to his ultimate potential efficacy, especially in the paint.

He had a game in his rookie year where he dunked 9 times in one half. He could legit dunk 15+ times in a game. The record is 13 by Shaq. David Robinson had 12 once. He could legit be a bigger Giannis/David Robinson at the rim - with a soft touch, shooting stroke, and a bag of tricks and counters to boot. But he needs to get stronger and more explosive to become that.

Limiting him to a Kevin Durant, lightweight finesse game would be a disgrace and a colossal waste of GOAT talent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYYPJfXX6M

If there was a way for him to get 250 without increasing his injury risk, it would be worth it, but I don't think there is, even now. I mean I also guess it depends on whether you think playing 5 less years and many less games is worth it. It might be. He would def be better at a higher weight, but it would be catastrophic for him. I can't believe they would even make that mistake.

I can understand he gets pushed off 'the block,' and he will have trouble finishing inside (which I still think he shouldn't primarily be inside lol,) but what I meant by you can't push him off the block is that there is a limit to how far you can push someone and while it's easier to push someone who has a higher center, people pushing him make it look like he's sliding off of them, so he just ends up at another spot from 15, where he wants to be, they wasted the energy, he was just leaning, and he rises up and shoots.

Re: KD, I think KD is super underrated. If there is an issue with him, it's mental, but I think it has even more to do with just weird teams. His skill set is insane at his size, and he's not near Wemby. I only used KD to talk about his body. I mean Wemby's body, imo, is way more tuned than KD's was at that age. Maybe I'm wrong. KD is a stud though.

I want Wemby playing more like Dirk once they got his shit right. Except he shouldn't have to put the ball on the floor if he has his team getting him the ball right. I just don't see how someone can push him off consistently in that situation without fouling the shit out of him.

lol 3 ball really saying that more height can be bad. Only assuming injury or lack of skill. IF neither, then basketball is a vertical game through and through. That's like saying someone could be too tall to be good at volleyball because they have to hit it with their chest sometimes. I hate dudes saying shit that I know they don't think is true.

Edit: plus the way the NBA is now, he ends up vs 6'8 guys often. He can do shit like this at 19, let him grow into his body. Height matters so much. I really feel like the whole gumby thing is an asset. He doesn't need to be 'steady.' It seems like physics, that he would break more easily, but peep:

https://youtu.be/M0khj1Itp-U?si=ptOi5bV69l0DiOFH&t=187

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

Can definitely be too tall and piut on too much weight. Needs to get stronger like his teammate Gobert without putting too much weight on his joints and feet

[90sgoat]

Porzingis had the same problem as Wemby coming into the league, just too skinny to even keep position against a guard.

Porzingis has bulked up quite a bit and is much better for it.

[Xiao Yao You]

Porzingis had the same problem as Wemby coming into the league, just too skinny to even keep position against a guard.

Porzingis has bulked up quite a bit and is much better for it.

And he cant be counted on to be on the floor when you need him

[90sgoat]

And he cant be counted on to be on the floor when you need him

Couldn't before he bulked up either.

[Im Still Ballin]

If there was a way for him to get 250 without increasing his injury risk, it would be worth it, but I don't think there is, even now. I mean I also guess it depends on whether you think playing 5 less years and many less games is worth it. It might be. He would def be better at a higher weight, but it would be catastrophic for him. I can't believe they would even make that mistake.

There's no evidence lifting weights to develop strength, power, and muscle mass increases risk of injury. It actually does the opposite. They don't just put a bunch of fat on NBA athletes in one off-season. They slowly and steadily add strength and power and the associated muscle mass that comes along with it. In a manner that's gradual and doesn't negatively affect flexibility, fluidity of movement, and overall mobility.

The biggest risk factor for injury is simply aging. Younger players aren't less injury-prone because they're lighter and have less muscle mass. It's because they're younger. And conversely, older players aren't more injury-prone because they're heavier and have more muscle mass. It's because they're older.

And a proper strength and conditioning not only improves performance but helps to stave off the physical decay of aging.


I can understand he gets pushed off 'the block,' and he will have trouble finishing inside (which I still think he shouldn't primarily be inside lol,) but what I meant by you can't push him off the block is that there is a limit to how far you can push someone and while it's easier to push someone who has a higher center, people pushing him make it look like he's sliding off of them, so he just ends up at another spot from 15, where he wants to be, they wasted the energy, he was just leaning, and he rises up and shoots.

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding what type of player he should be. Limiting him to a finesse-based jump-shooting player would be a crime in my opinion. He's too big, mobile, and skilled to not have a sizeable presence at the rim and in the paint on offense. Like he does on defense. And he can get and finish inside in a number of ways, which I think should all be utilized to their fullest degree.


Re: KD, I think KD is super underrated. If there is an issue with him, it's mental, but I think it has even more to do with just weird teams. His skill set is insane at his size, and he's not near Wemby. I only used KD to talk about his body. I mean Wemby's body, imo, is way more tuned than KD's was at that age. Maybe I'm wrong. KD is a stud though.

KD came into the league at 215 pounds and was 237-242 in his MVP year.


I want Wemby playing more like Dirk once they got his shit right. Except he shouldn't have to put the ball on the floor if he has his team getting him the ball right. I just don't see how someone can push him off consistently in that situation without fouling the shit out of him.

Dirk put on a solid amount of strength and size to better hold his spots in the post-up regions (low/mid/high).


lol 3 ball really saying that more height can be bad. Only assuming injury or lack of skill. IF neither, then basketball is a vertical game through and through. That's like saying someone could be too tall to be good at volleyball because they have to hit it with their chest sometimes. I hate dudes saying shit that I know they don't think is true.

Edit: plus the way the NBA is now, he ends up vs 6'8 guys often. He can do shit like this at 19, let him grow into his body. Height matters so much. I really feel like the whole gumby thing is an asset. He doesn't need to be 'steady.' It seems like physics, that he would break more easily, but peep:

https://youtu.be/M0khj1Itp-U?si=ptOi5bV69l0DiOFH&t=187

-Smak


Can definitely be too tall and piut on too much weight. Needs to get stronger like his teammate Gobert without putting too much weight on his joints and feet

Pretty much. Gobert came into the league at age 21 and 237 pounds. He's been 255-265 since like 2019. He weighed 231 pounds at the same age as Wemby, who was 230 pounds.


...The French big man still has a significant amount of work to do to fill out his 231-pound frame...

- Source: https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rudy-Gobert-5878/ ©DraftExpress

Hell, much of the same physical weaknesses in the scouting report for Rudy apply to Wemby. And just about every skinny big man.


Gobert continues to gradually fill out his frame, but is still a long ways away from reaching his full potential physically. While his upper body is looking better, he's very lean in his lower body, showing very skinny legs that affect him on both ends of the court at the moment. He gets pushed around quite a bit and loses his balance fairly easily, spending a decent amount of time sprawled out on the floor.

- Source: https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rudy-Gobert-5878/ ©DraftExpress


Couldn't before he bulked up either.

Facts. Lifting weights and developing strength, power, and muscle mass don't increase risk of injury. In fact, it does the opposite. This has been known for decades.

[ILLsmak]

Yo, yeah. I mean, dirk and porzingis are not wemby. There is no evidence that adding muscle mass increases injury risk, maybe true until you factor in that he is unnaturally tall/long. All weight will increase an unnatural burden, and I wouldnt discount it as in being bad for his heart etc, too. He should work out, but I just dont see why he should bulk. He is an anomaly. When you have something like that, you gotta be careful how you shape it.

Again with KD, what I was saying is KD or whatever guy you wanna pick of the too lanky crowd didnt look like Wemby body wise. He is thin, but hes also ridic ripped.

Let him grow into his body. He can still do all the stuff; I am saying he should not focus on banging in the paint. He can spin off or go around people well, but Id set him up off the touch, not like ball in his hands from 23 feet. Make it as easy as possible for hi. Rebs, dunks, blocks, break, all that stuff will happen. It already is.

Someone will prol want to put some weight on him, but especially for the modern game I just disagree. We’ll see.

Edit: this is what I envision end game Wemby should look like https://youtu.be/n2aP2pvGhBM?si=Xh8aCF_bhSvTU5L_&t=127

-Smak

[90sgoat]

Wemby had a big game today. Was very good in the post and off ball.

Chucked the game away with bad 3 pointers though. He really needs to stop shooting those.