Stock market panic around the world due to fears about the US entering a recession

[Media Moderator]

Multiple stock market circuit breakers around the world were tripped and trading paused because of fears the US is going into a recession. Japan had the biggest dive since Black Monday of 1987. Friday's jobs report combined with the Fed deciding not to lower interest rates has the rest of the world terrified

I've been saying this for months, the economy doesn't seem so hot no matter how rosy a picture the Biden paints it with their numbers. Kamala better hope this is just a small panic blip. She doesn't want to try winning an election in a struggling economy

[Doomsday Dallas]

Today is bad

[Media Moderator]

The NASDAQ dropped 6% right off the bat this morning but it's recovering. At 4.7% down right now.

Goldman Sachs has moved it's chances for a US recession this year from 10% last week to 25% today. JP Morgan is even more panicked. They went from 15% to 50% today

[j3lademaster]

Yeah, this is what happens when we artificially inject a bull market for like 5 years straight, just like the 80's. Everything is 2x actual value right now. Surprised neither of you mentioned Buffet selling Apple.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Surprised neither of you mentioned Buffet selling Apple.

yea... sold 50% of his stake

good time to be buying put options

[Hey Yo]

Since the beginning of Biden-Harris administration

Inflation up 21% and real wages down 1.9%

[j3lademaster]

This is why we have to end buybacks. Buybacks create this bubble that can send an economy into a recession or depression at almost any time.

Buybacks don't improve a product, they don't create jobs, they don't contribute to tax revenue to help fight the deficit... there's no real value or even faith in a value to back these stock prices. Then the stocks enrich the investors who further create a lending bubble by borrowing against their new net wealth.

Corporate tax cuts are dangerous because this is what it creates.

[Bill Gates]

Recession fears are overblown considering we just knocked Q2 GDP out of the park at 2.8% growth. So we are at least 6 months away from an official recession.

The Buffet sell off is not much to note either, his entire philosophy is the long game, he never tries to time the market, and he always has absurd amounts of liquid cash on hand.

And the other thing to note is that the Fed has been waiting for this, so that they can lower rates. Once they lower rates it is auto-economic spark of borrowing.

Looks like this was sparked by Japan reacting to recent jobs US data, which is weird, and I don't know how far this fear will take us, but I do think it will blow over.

[1987_Lakers]

Inflation up 21% and real wages down 1.9%

The inflation is ridiculous.

[j3lademaster]

Recession fears are overblown considering we just knocked Q2 GDP out of the park at 2.8% growth. So we are at least 6 months away from an official recession.

The Buffet sell off is not much to note either, his entire philosophy is the long game, he never tries to time the market, and he always has absurd amounts of liquid cash on hand.

And the other thing to note is that the Fed has been waiting for this, so that they can lower rates. Once they lower rates it is auto-economic spark of borrowing.

Looks like this was sparked by Japan reacting to recent jobs US data, which is weird, and I don't know how far this fear will take us, but I do think it will blow over.That's not a long time.

[Bill Gates]

That's not a long time.

From what I can tell Q3 projections for GDP look to be in the green as well. Unemployment ticked up slightly, but it is still low overall. The work force is still bigger than it's ever been.

I think in order to take recession fears seriously, we first need to see just one quarter of negative GDP. And we need to see unemployment over 5% because anything under 5% is too low.

[paksat]

I don't believe a single word from this government that said iraq has weapons of mass destruction

the same government that changed the definition of a recession to hide the fact we have BEEN IN ONE for years now

2 trillion dollars have vanished from the stock market so far

bill gates in here being like, ahhh that's just chump change bruh

lmao shut up

[paksat]

intel down 27%

"why this is good for the economy" on the next episode of CNN

[j3lademaster]

I don't believe a single word from this government that said iraq has weapons of mass destruction

the same government that changed the definition of a recession to hide the fact we have BEEN IN ONE for years now

2 trillion dollars have vanished from the stock market so far

bill gates in here being like, ahhh that's just chump change bruh

lmao shut upPlease elaborate, what is a recession and what did the govt change to redefine it?

[Bill Gates]

Please elaborate, what is a recession and what did the govt change to redefine it?

paksat's insight is gold, after he explains that everyone is poor, he'll tell you about all the expensive toys he can afford.

[Media Moderator]

Please elaborate, what is a recession and what did the govt change to redefine it?

The classic definition has been 2 quarters of negative growth which the Biden administration went through but refused to accept we were in a recession because unemployment was so low

The Biden administration will have the lowest gdp growth of any prez since Bush Sr.

[Bill Gates]

The classic definition has been 2 quarters of negative growth which the Biden administration went through but refused to accept we were in a recession because unemployment was so low

The Biden administration will have the lowest gdp growth of any prez since Bush Sr.

Biden has a +2.2% average with one more Q to add and Trump had a +2.3% :rolleyes:

[Lakers Legend#32]

MAGAS don't vote based on the economy.
They vote for Trump because he is their cult leader.

[Lakers Legend#32]

MAGAS can't hide their glee rooting against America.

Keep in mind, poorly educated.

Republicans are trying to pin today’s stock market drop on Joe Biden & Kamala Harris, saying it’s the worst ever. Not even close. The Dow really shat the bed under trump:

2020-03-16 −2,997.10 TRUMP
2020-03-12 −2,352.06 TRUMP
2020-03-09 −2,013.76 TRUMP

The Dow is still higher that it ever was under Trump.

[highwhey]

intel down 27%

"why this is good for the economy" on the next episode of CNN

they made their own bed. they've had major delays with their new manufacturing processes for their CPUs. they also missed the AI train unlike Nvidia and others, which is why they are now seeking private funding (well this and all the stock buybacks they did a couple years ago). their own leadership is to blame for their trajectory.

[Media Moderator]

MAGAS don't vote based on the economy.
They vote for Trump because he is their cult leader.

I'd say they do since roughly 2/3 of small business owners are Republican. Ask your global elite corporations though. They might agree with you

[j3lademaster]

The classic definition has been 2 quarters of negative growth which the Biden administration went through but refused to accept we were in a recession because unemployment was so low

The Biden administration will have the lowest gdp growth of any prez since Bush Sr.2 quarters of a gdp drop isn’t enough information to strike it as a recession. Truth is, that is a very rudimentary and oversimplified rule of thumb. What do I base this off of? Mid 1940’s already set the precedence for this, they technically had a recession by your definition, but the faith in the job and overall economic market kept it from being a recession, the same way for Biden’s administration- which with time that faith proved to be warranted as we can see from being a bull market ever since.

[bladefd]

With this sign, I expect interest rate cut coming very soon, perhaps 2 cuts before the year ends. I would urge against panic selling because nobody can predict the bottom.

[SATAN]

Multiple stock market circuit breakers around the world were tripped and trading paused because of fears the US is going into a recession. Japan had the biggest dive since Black Monday of 1987. Friday's jobs report combined with the Fed deciding not to lower interest rates has the rest of the world terrified

I've been saying this for months, the economy doesn't seem so hot no matter how rosy a picture the Biden paints it with their numbers. Kamala better hope this is just a small panic blip. She doesn't want to try winning an election in a struggling economy

Oh no the world is going to end :roll:

[warriorfan]

Oh no the world is going to end :roll:

Existence is pain

[rmt]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics also admitted that it had overestimated the job gains in both May and June by a total of 29,000. This continues a nearly unbroken and highly suspicious trend that has resulted in the BLS claiming big job gains each month – which garnered great press for Biden-Harris – then quietly cutting those numbers in subsequent months, often by substantial amounts. So far this year, 279,000 have disappeared.

https://issuesinsights.com/2024/08/05/lousy-jobs-report-brings-out-the-worst-in-biden-harris/

iirc, last year, they DOWNWARDLY REVISED job numbers for 11 of the 12 months.

[Lakers Legend#32]

This story will be forgotten in 48 hours.

Remember Trump had his staged shooting three weeks ago and nobody remembers.

[rmt]

It's all a sham. Revised job numbers, more part-time jobs (with loss of full-time jobs), increase in mostly GOVERNMENT jobs (which we the taxpayers pay for), 16 million jobs "created" (recovery from covid) - scam to BOAST about how well the administration is doing. In addition, a trillion dollars in interest every 100 days, some countries abandoning US dollar as reserve currency, inflation killing the average American - we're skating on thin ice. This spending is unsustainable.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQoorx7foI

[Bill Gates]

It's all a sham. Revised job numbers, more part-time jobs (with loss of full-time jobs), increase in mostly GOVERNMENT jobs (which we the taxpayers pay for)
Everyone on this insane forum is working a full time job but it has to be a lie outside of here!

If you don't trust what the Bureau of Stats is throwing out, then look into the revenue of individual businesses. Ones that the entire country uses. Amazon, Google, Walmart, Starbucks, Chipotle, etc. Or is everyone in on the sham?

[warriorfan]

Everyone on this insane forum is working a full time job but it has to be a lie outside of here!

If you don't trust what the Bureau of Stats is throwing out, then look into the revenue of individual businesses. Ones that the entire country uses. Amazon, Google, Walmart, Starbucks, Chipotle, etc. Or is everyone in on the sham?

This dude is so mad right now


:roll:

[Bill Gates]

Even with yesterday's overreaction, the S&P is up 16.5% on the year. That is a reflection of how businesses have done even if some are overvalued and need a correction.

Is that all one big lie too?

They could lie about one or two numbers, but you can't lie about them all.

[rmt]

Everyone on this insane forum is working a full time job but it has to be a lie outside of here!

If you don't trust what the Bureau of Stats is throwing out, then look into the revenue of individual businesses. Ones that the entire country uses. Amazon, Google, Walmart, Starbucks, Chipotle, etc. Or is everyone in on the sham?

You're darn right I don't trust them - who would trust any stats that are 11/12 months wrong (last year) and (this year) 279,000 jobs off (and only 7 months have gone by). If you trust those stats, smh. And it's this job report that set off the 2 days of world-wide panic/selling.

[rmt]

Going by some of you on this board, the economy is just honky-dory, and Biden belongs on Mt. Rushmore.

[Bill Gates]

the economy is just honky-dory
yes

and Biden belongs on Mt. Rushmore.
no

[Bill Gates]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/tLapk.iWkpJpBv.MZxR.FQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTM2MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/stockstory_922/8358bd3812263887dcecffd8029a7987
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/starbucks-nasdaq-sbux-misses-q2-201918696.html

Believe it on not but Starbucks is actually a very decent indicator of the state of the economy. Because when people are really struggling one of the first things to go is their $8 overpriced iced-mocha-latte. And this is during a time when many are boycotting Starbucks. We can see their is a small dip at the start of 2024 but it is still selling near all time highs and still trending upward.

These are the type of things you can look into if you do not believe the overall numbers.

Amazon is another great indicator, when people are struggling they will pause when making that frivolous purchase.

https://analyzify.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/amazon-statistics-for-annual-net-sales-revenue.png

People are buying more junk than ever before.

[rmt]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/tLapk.iWkpJpBv.MZxR.FQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTM2MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/stockstory_922/8358bd3812263887dcecffd8029a7987
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/starbucks-nasdaq-sbux-misses-q2-201918696.html

Believe it on not but Starbucks is actually a very decent indicator of the state of the economy. Because when people are really struggling one of the first things to go is their $8 overpriced iced-mocha-latte. And this is during a time when many are boycotting Starbucks. We can see their is a small dip at the start of 2024 but it is still selling near all time highs and still trending upward.

These are the type of things you can look into if you do not believe the overall numbers.

Amazon is another great indicator, when people are struggling they will pause when making that frivolous purchase.

https://analyzify.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/amazon-statistics-for-annual-net-sales-revenue.png

People are buying more junk than ever before.

I do not agree. The way I see Starbucks is that people (ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE) have given up hope - hope of getting ahead, of being able to afford kids, car, house while paying off student debt and are just living FOR THIS (indulgent) MOMENT.

Amazon is completely different - it is virtually a monopoly - for ease of buying, same day delivery, convenience, reviews, variety - it cannot be beat. I've tried to separate from it and have given up - not when all my kids and their room mates can order what they need and get it delivered at their doorsteps the next day.

[Bill Gates]

It doesn't matter if Amazon is a monopoly or not (it's not), that doesn't mean that the entire population has to spend more money there. Oh well I tried, have fun living in your false great depression and letting everyone know how hard it is on your new iphone.

[Media Moderator]

I do not agree. The way I see Starbucks is that people (ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE) have given up hope - hope of getting ahead, of being able to afford kids, car, house while paying off student debt and are just living FOR THIS (indulgent) MOMENT.

Amazon is completely different - it is virtually a monopoly - for ease of buying, same day delivery, convenience, reviews, variety - it cannot be beat. I've tried to separate from it and have given up - not when all my kids and their room mates can order what they need and get it delivered at their doorsteps the next day.

Their is so much right with the above post. The global elite want us to feel this way and that's exactly what is happening. The youth have never had these things in mass, it's harder to want to fight for something you've never had anyway. Most will capitulate to the globalists. It's ok though because the globalists are on the side of social justice as long as we don't pay attention to the really important stuff

https://i.ibb.co/wQxLkQz/Screenshot-2024-08-06-13-24-25-33-40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

[Lakers Legend#32]

The Trump campaign says Walz is a bad pick because he restored voting rights for convicted felons.

Donald Trump is a convicted felon.

[ZenMaster]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/tLapk.iWkpJpBv.MZxR.FQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTM2MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/stockstory_922/8358bd3812263887dcecffd8029a7987
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/starbucks-nasdaq-sbux-misses-q2-201918696.html

Believe it on not but Starbucks is actually a very decent indicator of the state of the economy.

These are the type of things you can look into if you do not believe the overall numbers.

People are buying more junk than ever before.

Amazon is a whole chapter by itself because they're a growth company that does a lot more than just sell junk and have been moving into multiple sectors. I did look into Starbucks though, being the decent indicator that you say it is.


Because when people are really struggling one of the first things to go is their $8 overpriced iced-mocha-latte. And this is during a time when many are boycotting Starbucks. We can see their is a small dip at the start of 2024 but it is still selling near all time highs and still trending upward.

That's true to an extent, but a lot of mid level and middle management workers, buying Starbucks both provide coffee(and often sugar) as well as status and clout, both at the office and on social media. In that context a 6-8$ expense is cheap and you're giving people way too much credit for being economically responsible. Starbucks have been very good at creating their brand to give this effect, which is why they have a base of very loyal customers.

Nonetheless, given inflation and increase on item prices since 2019, they don't look to be selling more from the chart you posted. Add a population increase since 2019 to that as well and it looks even more dull.

But what did Starbucks themselves say last week?


Starbucks sales dropped 3% globally at stores open for at least a year, including a 2% drop in its home North America market. And that masked how steep the decline was for Starbucks last quarter: Total transactions at North American stores open at least a year fell 6% in the quarter. That was offset, in part, by higher prices.

In other words: Fewer people are going to Starbucks and buying drinks and food. It was Starbucks’ second-straight quarter of sales declines.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/30/investing/starbucks-coffee-sales/index.html

They seem to realize that just keep yanking the prices up isn't sustainable, so instead they've decreased the size of their items and now introduced value meals while focusing on technology to be able to serve more customers. I wouldn't suprised if they'd also lowered the quality of some ingredients for cheaper production.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starbucks/comments/188tgkc/shrinkflation/


Starbucks, using a play from fast food chains, is trying to win back customers with value menus. The chain recently rolled out a new “Pairings Menu,” which combines a drink and a breakfast item for either $5 or $6. The company said Wednesday that the pairings menu experiment is paying off, and multi-item orders are surging.

Down 25% in company value over the last 12 months, 6% fewer transactions just in the last quarter, and to make up for it they've put in a strategy to try and be able to service more people through cost effecient measures. You're right, that does sound like a decent indicator of the current US economy.

[Bill Gates]

Amazon is a whole chapter by itself because they're a growth company that does a lot more than just sell junk and have been moving into multiple sectors. I did look into Starbucks though, being the decent indicator that you say it is.



That's true to an extent, but a lot of mid level and middle management workers, buying Starbucks both provide coffee(and often sugar) as well as status and clout, both at the office and on social media. In that context a 6-8$ expense is cheap and you're giving people way too much credit for being economically responsible. Starbucks have been very good at creating their brand to give this effect, which is why they have a base of very loyal customers.

Nonetheless, given inflation and increase on item prices since 2019, they don't look to be selling more from the chart you posted. Add a population increase since 2019 to that as well and it looks even more dull.

But what did Starbucks themselves say last week?


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/30/investing/starbucks-coffee-sales/index.html

They seem to realize that just keep yanking the prices up isn't sustainable, so instead they've decreased the size of their items and now introduced value meals while focusing on technology to be able to serve more customers. I wouldn't suprised if they'd also lowered the quality of some ingredients for cheaper production.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starbucks/comments/188tgkc/shrinkflation/



Down 25% in company value over the last 12 months, 6% fewer transactions just in the last quarter, and to make up for it they've put in a strategy to try and be able to service more people through cost effecient measures. You're right, that does sound like a decent indicator of the current US economy.

I acknowledged the downturn starting in 2024, but it has now corrected itself, again during a time when Starbucks is supposedly being boycotted.

I do appreciate the thought out reply, however it's missing the big picture. The contention is that all of the economic indicators out there are a lie, and we are secretly living in a recession where everyone is suffering. Basically that everything has gone to shit since Biden and Harris took over and they are masking it with fake numbers.

So while there have been bumps in the road for Starbucks, they have still grown considerably since covid, and since Biden was in office.

https://i0.wp.com/fourweekmba.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/starbucks-revenue-per-store.png?fit=2560%2C1931&ssl=1

https://files.merca20.com/uploads/2024/02/starbucks-location-2023.jpg



They are now a much bigger and wealthier beast than they were pre-covid. Sure you can point to bumps in the road, but that ignores the elephant in the room, they have grown at a dramatic pace and that just wouldn't be the case in the event of a bad recession.

[BigKobeFan]

I acknowledged the downturn starting in 2024, but it has now corrected itself, again during a time when Starbucks is supposedly being boycotted.

I do appreciate the thought out reply, however it's missing the big picture. The contention is that all of the economic indicators out there are a lie, and we are secretly living in a recession where everyone is suffering. Basically that everything has gone to shit since Biden and Harris took over and they are masking it with fake numbers.

So while there have been bumps in the road for Starbucks, they have still grown considerably since covid, and since Biden was in office.

https://i0.wp.com/fourweekmba.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/starbucks-revenue-per-store.png?fit=2560%2C1931&ssl=1

https://files.merca20.com/uploads/2024/02/starbucks-location-2023.jpg



They are now a much bigger and wealthier beast than they were pre-covid. Sure you can point to bumps in the road, but that ignores the elephant in the room, they have grown at a dramatic pace and that just wouldn't be the case in the event of a bad recession.

Considering inflation is over 50% for most goods compared to as pre-covid, starbucks is actually doing worse than before.

[ZenMaster]

I acknowledged the downturn starting in 2024, but it has now corrected itself, again during a time when Starbucks is supposedly being boycotted.

I do appreciate the thought out reply, however it's missing the big picture.

It's yourself who's missing the big picture. Their company value is down 25% in the last year, same valye as they were at 5 years ago and they haven't been growing their profits, only their revenue. They know they can't keep it up because they'll burn out the brand as more and more people would stop buying.

As they've changed their strategy into $5-6 combo value meals, the whole premise of using Starbucks as an example of the economy changes as well. The discussion is no longer whether or not Americans are doing so well that everyone are good paying $8 for coffee, but $5-6 combos at lower quantity and quality.



The contention is that all of the economic indicators out there are a lie, and we are secretly living in a recession where everyone is suffering. Basically that everything has gone to shit since Biden and Harris took over and they are masking it with fake numbers.

Economic indicators are built around growth in volume of corporate profits, which doesn't necessarily affect the economy positively of individuals in the general work force.
A relevant example of that is high levels of immigration. Say the government gives someone asylum and startup money to get situated, find a place to live etc, they do this by using tax payer money. At some point that new citizen is likely to need a loan, which is given by a private entity. That loan has interests and the entity is now making profit which contributes to the GDP, but took money away from the tax payers.
And as rmt has already shown you, numbers for new jobs can be manipulated in how they're presented.



So while there have been bumps in the road for Starbucks, they have still grown considerably since covid, and since Biden was in office.

https://i0.wp.com/fourweekmba.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/starbucks-revenue-per-store.png?fit=2560%2C1931&ssl=1

https://files.merca20.com/uploads/2024/02/starbucks-location-2023.jpg


They are now a much bigger and wealthier beast than they were pre-covid. Sure you can point to bumps in the road, but that ignores the elephant in the room, they have grown at a dramatic pace and that just wouldn't be the case in the event of a bad recession.

If you increase your prices by 35% while cutting down some item sizes e.g by10% and you only end up with 15% more revenue, you're not doing well and like I said you're burning off the brand putting it into a slow death. I posted for you the article where Starbucks themselves acknowledge this and they're no longer the Starbucks of old, but a discounted version now trying to beat out the competition by not having lines at their drivethrus.

[paksat]

It doesn't matter if Amazon is a monopoly or not (it's not), that doesn't mean that the entire population has to spend more money there. Oh well I tried, have fun living in your false great depression and letting everyone know how hard it is on your new iphone.

ok ill make sure to let all my employees know they're doing better than ever and their dollar buys more than it ever has.

what you think their response will be? Why are they asking for gas cards lmao? Is it because they got all this extra spending money?

how about we stop comparing things to the top 5 largest companies in the world that will cut 50k employees to ensure profits remain the same... and compare it to your average mom and pop place shall we?

[paksat]

Walmarts a good example of how you can cut your workforce drastically, while pointing at profits and saying everything is fine.

they used to have 30 cashiers for example, now they got like 5. Self-checkouts have allowed them to drastically cut their workforce, that means so much money is saved.

It's also the cheapest place you can buy stuff at, the fact they're doing great isn't a good indicator. It means people can't shop at more costly places, so they choose walmart

[rmt]

It doesn't matter if Amazon is a monopoly or not (it's not), that doesn't mean that the entire population has to spend more money there. Oh well I tried, have fun living in your false great depression and letting everyone know how hard it is on your new iphone.

You don't see the increase in not just groceries, gas, insurance (homeowner's, auto, long term care), eating out, travel but virtually everything? You don't know about the increase in credit card debt, use of food banks, car repossessions? Which world are you living in?

[John8204]

Going by some of you on this board, the economy is just honky-dory, and Biden belongs on Mt. Rushmore.

Well this post aged like Milk

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/us-stocks-august-6-2024

[Bill Gates]

You don't see the increase in not just groceries, gas, insurance (homeowner's, auto, long term care), eating out, travel but virtually everything? You don't know about the increase in credit card debt, use of food banks, car repossessions? Which world are you living in?

I guess I'm living in the world where I have a good job and salary and the company I work for is doing well and my saving and 401k are killing it. I can not deny that inflation has been problematic, but if we were actually in a bad recession I would be collecting unemployment right now which is infinitely worse.

[Bill Gates]

how about we stop comparing things to the top 5 largest companies in the world that will cut 50k employees to ensure profits remain the same... and compare it to your average mom and pop place shall we?
https://commerceinstitute.s3.amazonaws.com/new-businesses-started-every-year/new-businesses-created-over-time.webp


We shall, there are more mom and pop places in the US right now than ever before. You keep bringing up your own small business and how well you are doing financially, so you are one of them :facepalm

[rmt]

Well this post aged like Milk

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/us-stocks-august-6-2024

And it's up even more today (since this article was written). Please, do you really think the stock market is all there is to the economy? People are getting pounded by higher prices, interest rates, debt, etc.

Look, I'm old - not into selling in a panic. I actually took the day off on Monday to buy (pre-market was really low). But I see my kids' friends graduate, living at home with parents, can't find jobs and it's just SAD. 35 trillion in debt, SS and Medicare headaches soon - these are HUGE problems that no one is addressing. And the government keeps spending. The future is not bright for most.

[rmt]

I guess I'm living in the world where I have a good job and salary and the company I work for is doing well and my saving and 401k are killing it. I can not deny that inflation has been problematic, but if we were actually in a bad recession I would be collecting unemployment right now which is infinitely worse.

I am happy for you, but not blind to what's happening to others not as fortunate.

[Media Moderator]

https://commerceinstitute.s3.amazonaws.com/new-businesses-started-every-year/new-businesses-created-over-time.webp


We shall, there are more mom and pop places in the US right now than ever before. You keep bringing up your own small business and how well you are doing financially, so you are one of them :facepalm

Well its not all roses out there for small business. Their share of the GDP has shrunk from 50.9% 25 years ago to 43.5% today. Only 65% are profitable which is actually good compared to some other recent years. The average lifespan of a small business is now 9.5 years. And the biggie , in 2024 small business confidence is the lowest in 11 years

[bladefd]

You're darn right I don't trust them - who would trust any stats that are 11/12 months wrong (last year) and (this year) 279,000 jobs off (and only 7 months have gone by). If you trust those stats, smh. And it's this job report that set off the 2 days of world-wide panic/selling.

But you trusted every word president trump was uttering, right? It was the gospel and everything was going perfectly from January 2017 to January 2021!

[paksat]

https://commerceinstitute.s3.amazonaws.com/new-businesses-started-every-year/new-businesses-created-over-time.webp


We shall, there are more mom and pop places in the US right now than ever before. You keep bringing up your own small business and how well you are doing financially, so you are one of them :facepalm

I live in Florida where everyone is evacuating to. It's allowing us to enjoy a better economy for obvious reasons

Your data simply isn't making sense, how is everything better than ever when 2 out of 3 people live with less than 1k in their bank account?

If you go by wage increase and compare it to the average increase of rent groceries and gas, all your graphs get proven to be lies

[Lakers Legend#32]

Sorry MAGA that economic collapse you were hoping for so you could blame it on Biden/Harris did not turn out the way you wanted.

[Off the Court]

Jobless claims plummet, completely erasing all fears of recession. Sorry MAGA, I know your hopes were up.

[SATAN]

I guess I'm living in the world where I have a good job and salary and the company I work for is doing well and my saving and 401k are killing it. I can not deny that inflation has been problematic, but if we were actually in a bad recession I would be collecting unemployment right now which is infinitely worse.

Dude, you're supposed to be overly negative and reactive. Get with the program! :lol

[bladefd]

Sorry MAGA that economic collapse you were hoping for so you could blame it on Biden/Harris did not turn out the way you wanted.

Always next time! :lol

[ZenMaster]

JPMorgan has raised the odds of a US recession by the end of this year to 35 per cent from 25 per cent probability earlier, citing easing labor market pressures.
Fears of a US recession following a weaker-than-expected July jobs report and an unwinding of yen-funded carry trades sparked a sharp sell-off in global equities earlier this week.

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/jp-morgan-raises-odds-of-us-recession-by-year-end-to-35-from-25-report-124080801912_1.html

[bladefd]

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/jp-morgan-raises-odds-of-us-recession-by-year-end-to-35-from-25-report-124080801912_1.html

That's why the response will be to lower the interest rates, and it will happen. I look forward to JPMorgan's updated odds once the interest rate cut comes.

[ZenMaster]

That's why the response will be to lower the interest rates, and it will happen. I look forward to JPMorgan's updated odds once the interest rate cut comes.

I don't care too much about specific designations, but more so the big picture. If there's an ongoing risk of recession, it means a lot of people are struggling.

[Bill Gates]

I don't care too much about specific designations, but more so the big picture. If there's an ongoing risk of recession, it means a lot of people are struggling.

IIRC it wasn't long ago that JP Morgan and others pinned their odds of recession at 100%.

We are at no threat of recession. What is happening that society doesn't like is the natural evolution of capitalism. It always seeks to figure out what is cheapest and most efficient. In times of high inflation, there are no businesses that are going to rush to get their employees pay up to speed. It can take a decade before wages eventually catch up.

And everyone on the right who is supposedly struggling and want change? What they aren't seeing is that they are actually demanding socialism. Trickle down doesn't work, if it did we would all be rich right now because the wealthy have never been more top-heavy than they are currently.

[Lakers Legend#32]

I prefer president's who did not cheer for a market crash.

[ZenMaster]

IIRC it wasn't long ago that JP Morgan and others pinned their odds of recession at 100%.

We are at no threat of recession. What is happening that society doesn't like is the natural evolution of capitalism. It always seeks to figure out what is cheapest and most efficient. In times of high inflation, there are no businesses that are going to rush to get their employees pay up to speed. It can take a decade before wages eventually catch up.

And everyone on the right who is supposedly struggling and want change? What they aren't seeing is that they are actually demanding socialism. Trickle down doesn't work, if it did we would all be rich right now because the wealthy have never been more top-heavy than they are currently.

Back when they pinned the odds of recession at 100% was when the GDP was negative for two consecutive quarters in 2022, which as long as you and I have been able to read is what governments and media has used as the definition when they say recession.

https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp2q22_adv-chart-01.png

And no, people on the right aren't asking for socialism, that's a talking point installed on the left for the people there to feel smart, "but they're actually asking for what we want to give them".
The real solution is to bring back production jobs and force companies to pay out US citizens wages instead of Mexican, Chinese, Vietnamese or whatever to the extent possible.
You have an American registered company and brand and want to sell to Americans, you should be producing your goods in the US and not Mexico or anywhere else - if you do produce in Mexico, the US govt taxes you to an extent where it doesn't make sense to keep production there.

I know the counter argument is to say that then everything will just get more expensive because US workers needs higher wages than e.g Mexican, but it's not how it plays out in the realuty because of domestic competition on more equal terms. I'll give you an example:

Company A sells AC units, they were making around 1 billion in profit per year after all wages and expenses when producing their units in Mexico and shipping them over the border. Their profit margin was 30% before having to move production back and they want to keep the same profits after having been pushed to move their production to the US, so they add to the price.
People then start complaining that those AC units are too expensive, so someone smart takes a look and finds out that if he makes company B, another AC company and aims for a 10% profit margin after having paid all workers and expenses instead of 30%, he can out compete company A on price and take their customers. The new founder would have to be contempt with his company earning $330 million instead of 1 billion after all expenses if it was eventually to grow to the size of company A, but there are lots of people who want that kind of business.
The market wouldn't be taken over by Chinese companies producing ACs either, because the government in question would obviously slap a tariff on their producs so they end up at same price level as domestic production.

More quality jobs for US workers means more money for the population, and it's a much better way than letting mega corporations profit through external production before having to give some of that money to US government as taxes, who then can pass it on to the popoulation through various support programs and make people dependent on government in the day to day. The more money which has to flow to government, the higher the chance of corruption, bureaucrats and politicians taking a cut in deceptive ways.

To me, the main reason to vote for Trump was always that he was trying to bring jobs back and get people off food stamps.

[SATAN]

And no, people on the right aren't asking for socialism, that's a talking point installed on the left for the people there to feel smart, "but they're actually asking for what we want to give them".
The real solution is to bring back production jobs and force companies to pay out US citizens wages instead of Mexican, Chinese, Vietnamese or whatever to the extent possible.




:eek:

[ZenMaster]

:eek:

When it comes to American companies that produce mainly for that market, there's nothing wrong with US gov protecting Americans workers instead of ones in Tijuana or Guanzhou. It's also better for the environment if production of products happen closer to where they're consumed.

[Bill Gates]

Back when they pinned the odds of recession at 100% was when the GDP was negative for two consecutive quarters in 2022, which as long as you and I have been able to read is what governments and media has used as the definition when they say recession.

https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp2q22_adv-chart-01.png

And no, people on the right aren't asking for socialism, that's a talking point installed on the left for the people there to feel smart, "but they're actually asking for what we want to give them".
The real solution is to bring back production jobs and force companies to pay out US citizens wages instead of Mexican, Chinese, Vietnamese or whatever to the extent possible.
You have an American registered company and brand and want to sell to Americans, you should be producing your goods in the US and not Mexico or anywhere else - if you do produce in Mexico, the US govt taxes you to an extent where it doesn't make sense to keep production there.

I know the counter argument is to say that then everything will just get more expensive because US workers needs higher wages than e.g Mexican, but it's not how it plays out in the realuty because of domestic competition on more equal terms. I'll give you an example:

Company A sells AC units, they were making around 1 billion in profit per year after all wages and expenses when producing their units in Mexico and shipping them over the border. Their profit margin was 30% before having to move production back and they want to keep the same profits after having been pushed to move their production to the US, so they add to the price.
People then start complaining that those AC units are too expensive, so someone smart takes a look and finds out that if he makes company B, another AC company and aims for a 10% profit margin after having paid all workers and expenses instead of 30%, he can out compete company A on price and take their customers. The new founder would have to be contempt with his company earning $330 million instead of 1 billion after all expenses if it was eventually to grow to the size of company A, but there are lots of people who want that kind of business.
The market wouldn't be taken over by Chinese companies producing ACs either, because the government in question would obviously slap a tariff on their producs so they end up at same price level as domestic production.

More quality jobs for US workers means more money for the population, and it's a much better way than letting mega corporations profit through external production before having to give some of that money to US government as taxes, who then can pass it on to the popoulation through various support programs and make people dependent on government in the day to day. The more money which has to flow to government, the higher the chance of corruption, bureaucrats and politicians taking a cut in deceptive ways.

To me, the main reason to vote for Trump was always that he was trying to bring jobs back and get people off food stamps.

I don't have any disagreement with this take. But I will say that if you are forcing US companies to pay more for US production rather than getting cheap labor outside of the US? That is more or less a form of socialism. It is no different than allowing those companies to get their cheap labor in China, but then taxing them for that and using that money to create US jobs.

[ZenMaster]

I don't have any disagreement with this take. But I will say that if you are forcing US companies to pay more for US production rather than getting cheap labor outside of the US? That is more or less a form of socialism. It is no different than allowing those companies to get their cheap labor in China, but then taxing them for that and using that money to create US jobs.

Money flowing directly from companies to people is very different than money flowing from companies to government, and then to people. The latter is the building block for communism and a world where the person is dependent on the state. It's also a building block for government corruption as officials decide how much of your money they want to keep for the state, which they can thenen use for state services at companies of their family, friends etc.

[rmt]

Tip(s) of the day - Go Roth (and take chance government will keep its word on tax free on the back end). Traditional IRA no longer can be stretch IRA for most beneficiaries (except spouse). Convert traditional IRAs to Roth between age 59 1/2 to 63 (be careful of Medicare IRMMA - 2 year look back). Recommendation: The Retirement Savings Time Bomb Ticks Louder by Ed Slott.

Don't know why anyone ever said Medicare is free - what a joke - based on income and a stick to single people.

Go Medicare High Deductible plan G - especially in Florida and NY.

All this retirement/Medicare stuff is complicated.

[Bill Gates]

Money flowing directly from companies to people is very different than money flowing from companies to government, and then to people. The latter is the building block for communism and a world where the person is dependent on the state. It's also a building block for government corruption as officials decide how much of your money they want to keep for the state, which they can thenen use for state services at companies of their family, friends etc.

The gist of socialism is forcing money from companies and the wealthy and spreading it around to those who are more in need than them. Which is more or less what forcing companies to spend more on their own citizens is. Again, I'm all for it. But you should be realistic about what it is. Taxing companies and using that money to create jobs is literally the same thing.

[ILLsmak]

I don't have any disagreement with this take. But I will say that if you are forcing US companies to pay more for US production rather than getting cheap labor outside of the US? That is more or less a form of socialism. It is no different than allowing those companies to get their cheap labor in China, but then taxing them for that and using that money to create US jobs.

I dunno, but this is how I feel:

first of all, exploiting cheap labor is bad. It's immoral. I know people don't wanna talk about such things, but it's important, imo, esp if you are talking about people being rich and becoming better people.

Second of all, I feel like IF we are able to make people use US labor, when we have rules in place to avoid people being overworked and working for sweat wages, then we increase the value of everything we have in a fundamental sense. Arguably, we even make life better for the poor laborers who will probably see an increase in their wages eventually, too.

I don't see that as socialism because it's outside of our laws. If capitalism was just lawless then it should have labor camps. Take all poor people and force them to work for free. We do have laws, however, and capitalism works with those laws. Those laws are designed to protect workers, and while they do not redistribute wealth in that socialist sense, they do 'artificially' raise the cost of labor. However, it's necessary to give people a level of protection against 'slavery.'

Ideal world is where people can make money making things for us and can also afford products themselves. If our country only works with cheap labor, then shit is ****ed up.

In no world should we be championing exploitation.

-Smak

[gbaLL]

marley = cool

[ZenMaster]

The gist of socialism is forcing money from companies and the wealthy and spreading it around to those who are more in need than them. Which is more or less what forcing companies to spend more on their own citizens is. Again, I'm all for it. But you should be realistic about what it is. Taxing companies and using that money to create jobs is literally the same thing.

Literally the same thing huh? Telling companies that if they act as an international company pretending to be American then they'll have to pay import taxes on their products is different at it's core than taxing those companies for profits built on the back of cheap labor in Asia or South America.

You want American companies to to exploit cheap labor in other countries so they can send the profit into the US where a job is then created for the money? That's one of the most dystopian and internationally unsustainable things I've ever heard.

So in your model, an American company creates something cool, then goes to China and have them make it all, send back money for the US government so they can tell a person in the US that now there's job for you collecting garbage from the streets or whatever, paid for by Chinese workers. You won't have a chance to move up and advance in anything, because it's someone else creating the value from where you're getting paid.

In my model, an American creates something cool, then goes to the US work force asking people if they want to help build it at a fair wage, with a chance to move up internally within the company if you perform well.

Your model is not only depressive when considering the self worth people feel doing meaningful stuff, but it's also highly inefficient as you need a seperate work force within government who creates the jobs, decides who gets the jobs and how much they can be paid, their workers rights etc. Sounds a lot like communism to me and the American ends up with less money than they otherwise would have, because some of the wealth have gone to a Chinese worker who actually produced something.

The model I propose is what they in other countries simply refer to as having a healthy and sensical job market, while you'd call it "trickle down and it doesn't work", which is only because past politicians let US companies outsource heavily without any consequences(those politicans became rich in the process of donations and insider knowledge).

And if you were "all for it" regarding my model, you'd be voting Trump as he's the only guy who's actually advocating for this structure instead of the communism route.

[bladefd]

Bump :pimp:


With this sign, I expect interest rate cut coming very soon, perhaps 2 cuts before the year ends. I would urge against panic selling because nobody can predict the bottom.

I hope the MAGA crew didn't panic sell. They would be up quite a bit today.

[AKA_AAP]

Bump :pimp:



I hope the MAGA crew didn't panic sell. They would be up quite a bit today.

Have you seen your updated IRL health and IRL income? :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

Have you seen your updated IRL health and IRL income? :roll:

I know I know, the stock market health doesn’t matter anymore. At least not for the next couple of months, should Trump win the election.

[highwhey]

I know I know, the stock market health doesn’t matter anymore. At least not for the next couple of months, should Trump win the election.

:oldlol:

[TheMan]

Have you seen your updated IRL health and IRL income? :roll:

Cry more, fakkit

[ZenMaster]

Bump :pimp:



I hope the MAGA crew didn't panic sell. They would be up quite a bit today.

Am curious, how much more wealth do you have today compared to 4,5 or 6 years ago?

[Off the Court]

Am curious, how much more wealth do you have today compared to 4,5 or 6 years ago?

lol almost everyone has more wealth than pre-covid. That's why we have inflation issues.


https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/35/35ed51551439f27f1f0fb3ec66640e0d.png


Look at the jump after 2020

[Off the Court]

And the irony is that it is Trump who flooded us all with more wealth and caused the inflation spike.

We are just now getting back into full recovery from it.

But that is how this country does it. Republicans over spend and then Democrats fix the mess only to be voted out again.

[AKA_AAP]

lol almost everyone has more wealth than pre-covid. That's why we have inflation issues.

Low IQ post. The purchasing power of each dollar is a lot less in the Racist bidenflation years than the strong economic years of Trump. Your graph is just gaslighting.

Also, you have to consider that the average household has more people in it these days due to people like yourself (LowIQotc), ObeseAxe, RacistJasper, CopyPasteLegend#32, DemBotJohn, FascistRRR3, and AlwaysWrongBladefd moving back in with their parents or having more roommates due to the exponential rise of the cost of living during 4 years of Racst joe biden.

[RRR3]

Low IQ post. The purchasing power of each dollar is a lot less in the Racist bidenflation years than the strong economic years of Trump. Your graph is just gaslighting.

Also, you have to consider that the average household has more people in it these days due to people like yourself (LowIQotc), ObeseAxe, RacistJasper, CopyPasteLegend#32, DemBotJohn, FascistRRR3, and AlwaysWrongBladefd moving back in with their parents or having more roommates due to the exponential rise of the cost of living during 4 years of Racst joe biden.
You type as if you have severe brain damage :lol

[AKA_AAP]

Cry more, fakkit

Cry? I'm laughing, ROFL'ing to be exact. I LOVE the suffering that the Racist joe biden economy has put the ISH radical leftists through. I want 8 years of Kamala Harris, I want to see even more economic suffering! :pimp:

[AKA_AAP]

You type as if you have severe brain damage :lol

You are an anarcho-communist. That is the truest form of brain damage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyCDK7E35yk

[RRR3]

D-DUHHHHHHHH-uhhhh-uhhhh-uhhhhh-uhhh!!!!!!!
You quite literally support fascism. Don't make me get Proctor, Ken Ken.

[AKA_AAP]

You quite literally support fascism. Don't make me get Proctor, Ken Ken.

Don't know who Ken is. But aren't you suppose to be a man? A man would never want to live in a socialist/communist country, because that's not what being a man is about. Go get your sex change, you're a disgrace.

[RRR3]

:mad:
:lol

[ZenMaster]

lol almost everyone has more wealth than pre-covid. That's why we have inflation issues.


Look at the jump after 2020

Yes I'm sure bladed got a nice story about how his bank account is booming and I'd love to hear it.


Americans outside the wealthiest 20% of the country have run out of extra savings and now have less cash on hand than they did when the pandemic began, according to the latest Federal Reserve study of household finances.

For the bottom 80% of households by income, bank deposits and other liquid assets were lower in June this year than they were in March 2020, after adjustment for inflation.

All income groups have seen their balances decline in real terms from a peak in 2021, according to the Fed survey. But among the wealthiest one-fifth of households, cash savings are still about 8% above their level when Covid hit. By contrast, the poorest two-fifths of Americans have seen an 8% drop in that period. And the next 40% — a group that roughly corresponds with the US middle class — saw their cash savings drop below pre-pandemic levels in the last quarter.

The figures point to dwindling firepower available for US consumers, whose resilience has kept the economy growing at a rapid clip this year and staved off the recession that many expected. Some analysts warn a downturn is still in the cards as households run low on spare cash.

https://fortune.com/2023/09/25/pandemic-savings-richest-americans-federal-reserve-covid/

https://www.hindustantimes.com/ht-img/img/2023/07/18/original/bank_account_data_1689682745623.png

[RRR3]

Regardless of which one of them is better it should be obvious to anyone paying attention that both Biden and Trump serve the rich and not the working class. Anyone who can't see this is propagandized.

[ZenMaster]

Regardless of which one of them is better it should be obvious to anyone paying attention that both Biden and Trump serve the rich and not the working class. Anyone who can't see this is propagandized.

It must be incredibly boring only to ever make the same point over and over again just to be part of the lib superiority contest, that you're so smart and can see through it all that others fall for. Meanwhile you've never managed to solve anything big in life and can't connect the dots on any particular subject.

[bladefd]

Yes I'm sure bladed got a nice story about how his bank account is booming and I'd love to hear it.


But it is. Obviously, I'm not a millionaire, but I am not dirt poor. I can afford food and rent. Certainly better now than I was 5yrs ago.

[AKA_AAP]

But it is. Obviously, I'm not a millionaire, but I am not dirt poor. I can afford food and rent. Certainly better now than I was 5yrs ago.

You can barely afford food and rent in a red state. But if you were to move to California, you can't say the same thing. That makes you dirt poor, AlwaysWrongBladefd

[j3lademaster]

It must be incredibly boring only to ever make the same point over and over again just to be part of the lib superiority contest, that you're so smart and can see through it all that others fall for. Meanwhile you've never managed to solve anything big in life and can't connect the dots on any particular subject.

It’s that Norcaliblunt guy as well. Most reasonable people probably have a problem with both candidates, but there still needs to be conversations on who is the better choice. Whether you want to participate in the conversations is up to you, but going in every thread announcing you aren’t voting for either because they’re both evil… it’s the equivalence to those people who act like they’re above ‘comparing’ players but are in every Lebron vs Kobe thread arguing their side. I don’t agree with you on everything, but at least you have your own opinions and back them up with facts you have access to and converse in good faith. I fvcks with u. :cheers:

[RRR3]

It must be incredibly boring only to ever make the same point over and over again just to be part of the lib superiority contest, that you're so smart and can see through it all that others fall for. Meanwhile you've never managed to solve anything big in life and can't connect the dots on any particular subject.
^propagandized

[ZenMaster]

But it is. Obviously, I'm not a millionaire, but I am not dirt poor. I can afford food and rent. Certainly better now than I was 5yrs ago.

No wonder you were so bitter during Trump presidency if you couldn't afford food and rent for a place to live. Glad to hear you got more stability in your life now, ISH members shouldn't be sleeping on the streets.

[ZenMaster]

It’s that Norcaliblunt guy as well. Most reasonable people probably have a problem with both candidates, but there still needs to be conversations on who is the better choice. Whether you want to participate in the conversations is up to you, but going in every thread announcing you aren’t voting for either because they’re both evil… it’s the equivalence to those people who act like they’re above ‘comparing’ players but are in every Lebron vs Kobe thread arguing their side. I don’t agree with you on everything, but at least you have your own opinions and back them up with facts you have access to and converse in good faith. I fvcks with u. :cheers:

:cheers:

People like RRR3 and Norcal function on certain triggers, meaning that when certain conditions are met within a conversation and given their disruptive thinkining is at the first order(they can only see through one layer), they're "supposed" to parrot their line of thinking that both parties are exactly the same.

There was this great podcast recently with a very smart life long democrat, who explains exactly why people like RRR3, Norcal, RMGW, OTC, bladed etc. behave the way they do. It's fairly fascinating and expained at level of depth I don't care to put down in words on a basketball website, but I highly recommend listening to the first 43 minutes and again from 2:49:00 to the end for the parts relating to politcs and the election.


https://youtu.be/PYRYXhU4kxM

[warriorfan]

No wonder you were so bitter during Trump presidency if you couldn't afford food and rent for a place to live. Glad to hear you got more stability in your life now, ISH members shouldn't be sleeping on the streets.

:lol :roll:

during trump he made a thread whining about how he can’t afford his internet bill. (he was living with his parents and paying no rent, paying for the internet was his form of contribution and he wasn’t even able to do that.)

[ZenMaster]

:lol :roll:

during trump he made a thread whining about how he canÂ’t afford his internet bill. (he was living with his parents and paying no rent, paying for the internet was his form of contribution and he wasnÂ’t even able to do that.)

While I'm glad bladed is doing better, his post is a great example that if you knock people down far enough, they will eventually be happy with very little. He did mention a thought about being a millionaire, so there might still be some fire in his soul to do better and I'll give him one for free:

@bladed, once Kamala is made to be the next President, there'll be a new run of immigrants to replace the current population. So what you can do is look into creating an agency in your state which imports foreign workers. As an agency, you will find available jobs(get out and make some deals with various companies who are looking for cheap labor) and handle all applications to streamline the process of coming to America for your clients. You can charge somewhere in the range of 5-10K per client and market this over in Mumbai or similar, people there will find the money.

Of course you'll have some expenses too and it won't all be profit, but at 5K per client you should be able to make good money once you have the process down on how to apply for visa and gvt benefits on their behalf.
Then when you get some money flowing into your company, use that to buy an apartment for the area where you have jobs available, so now you can offer your clients a place to live as well. They'll stay 5-10 people there in one apartment without complaining, giving you good profits through rent - just ask the mayor of Springfield, Ohio.

Maybe get a partner who's good at executing the finding jobs part while you handle the application processes, depends on where you're most comfortable.

[Off the Court]

Yes I'm sure bladed got a nice story about how his bank account is booming and I'd love to hear it.



https://fortune.com/2023/09/25/pandemic-savings-richest-americans-federal-reserve-covid/

https://www.hindustantimes.com/ht-img/img/2023/07/18/original/bank_account_data_1689682745623.png

This doesn't mean a damn thing, for one the balances are still higher at the end, but 2nd no one keeps mass wealth in their bank accounts. Rich people don't even have over $20k in their checking, they put that money to work.

[ZenMaster]

This doesn't mean a damn thing, for one the balances are still higher at the end, but 2nd no one keeps mass wealth in their bank accounts. Rich people don't even have over $20k in their checking, they put that money to work.

The number covers both checking and savings accounts.

Balances are 11% higher on average, but inflation is more than 11% for the period, hence why the article states that people now have less cash than before the pandemic after adjusting for inflation. All the graphs are trending downwards too, so might not be too long until people have less cash even without this adjustment.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/ht-img/img/2023/07/18/original/Money_with_consumers_1689682969904.png

The people in the 1st quartile do keep most of their "mass wealth" in their bank accounts, while the 2nd quartile is split due to 401K options. Per Gallup survey published last month, only 25% of households with a yearly income at 40K or below own stocks, and between 40K-99K there's still one third of households who doesn't own stocks either. The distribution of stocks is also bad, the bottom 50% when it comes to networth only own 1% of US stocks collectively, while the top 10% holds 87%. So while it's a nice thought that all Americans in low income brackets have amassed a bunch of money through stocks and doesn't have cash on their bank accounts because of it, it's not reality for most of those people.

It's natural too, if you only have 2K sitting on your checking + savings account combined and someone hands you another 2K, the first thought for most people isn't to invest that in stocks, especially not if inflation is raging and everything around you is getting more expensive and maybe you're in risk of losing your job as well.

[Off the Court]

Hardly anyone with considerable wealth keeps it liquid in a bank account of any kind, checking or savings. What people keep laying around as liquid cash is hardly an indicator of any kind but even with what you are showing there is hardly a difference from pre-covid to now. Republicans are trying to sell the notion that everyone is broke and homeless.

So with that, let me ask you like you just asked blade, are you broke and homeless? Are you considerably poorer than you were 5 years ago?

Polling on this topic almost always concludes with the individual being asked saying "I'm fine but everyone else is suffering". And that can be seen on this forum where every Trump voter here declares that they are wealthy but acts like they are some kind of anomaly and everyone else in the country is homeless. When in reality being a millionaire is common AF.

[Charlie Sheen]

Hardly anyone with considerable wealth keeps it liquid in a bank account of any kind, checking or savings. What people keep laying around as liquid cash is hardly an indicator of any kind but even with what you are showing there is hardly a difference from pre-covid to now. Republicans are trying to sell the notion that everyone is broke and homeless.

So with that, let me ask you like you just asked blade, are you broke and homeless? Are you considerably poorer than you were 5 years ago?

Polling on this topic almost always concludes with the individual being asked saying "I'm fine but everyone else is suffering". And that can be seen on this forum where every Trump voter here declares that they are wealthy but acts like they are some kind of anomaly and everyone else in the country is homeless. When in reality being a millionaire is common AF.

Zen is not arguing what you are arguing here. I think he is saying that for majority of Americans... not the considerably wealthy... their declining savings indicates a higher risk they will not be able to meet their debt obligations.

[AKA_AAP]

:lol :roll:

during trump he made a thread whining about how he can’t afford his internet bill. (he was living with his parents and paying no rent, paying for the internet was his form of contribution and he wasn’t even able to do that.)

Ouch. I hope you are joking. Also, isn't AlwaysWrongBladefd in his late 40's?

[ILLsmak]

It’s that Norcaliblunt guy as well. Most reasonable people probably have a problem with both candidates, but there still needs to be conversations on who is the better choice. Whether you want to participate in the conversations is up to you, but going in every thread announcing you aren’t voting for either because they’re both evil… it’s the equivalence to those people who act like they’re above ‘comparing’ players but are in every Lebron vs Kobe thread arguing their side. I don’t agree with you on everything, but at least you have your own opinions and back them up with facts you have access to and converse in good faith. I fvcks with u. :cheers:

You gotta talk to people. I am intrigued by rrr3s ideas, but mostly it’s people attacking him. Norcal is also an interesting dude. Sometimes he’s just in troll mode, but others, he seems to want to discuss.

I will type out troll shit when I am like yea not feeling this atm, so i can accept trolling, but it’s amazing how much people on here shout down others who are trying to talk. This matters because it leads to others trolling and shouting them down because they know their input is not valued.

Even on ish there aren’t many people who just post bullshit in regards to anything, including politics… not saying names, but they do exist. There is plenty of fun to be had talking about opinions or how you interpret something. Most people should be able to chuckle at their candidate / favorite player w/e, too.

In general my pov is if you keep engaging people they eventually break character. When people go after someone constantly, it puts them in a box where they are pre-empting attacks.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Also on topic I’m shocked bezo zuk and musk have 200b. Foh haha.

That should tell u a lot. I actually look at those billionaire lists and I can tell u I don’t recall them having 100 in 2016~.

-Smak

[bladefd]

No wonder you were so bitter during Trump presidency if you couldn't afford food and rent for a place to live. Glad to hear you got more stability in your life now, ISH members shouldn't be sleeping on the streets.

Don't you live in Eastern Europe? Why do you care?

[Real Cavs Fan]

Don't you live in Eastern Europe? Why do you care?

lmao

handicapped blade getting triggered

Just wait till he gets a fellow indian in the white house and she does nothing for him or his family, and he will still have the intellectual disconnect and back her.


Amazing :lol

[ZenMaster]

Hardly anyone with considerable wealth keeps it liquid in a bank account of any kind, checking or savings. What people keep laying around as liquid cash is hardly an indicator of any kind but even with what you are showing there is hardly a difference from pre-covid to now. Republicans are trying to sell the notion that everyone is broke and homeless.

So with that, let me ask you like you just asked blade, are you broke and homeless? Are you considerably poorer than you were 5 years ago?

Polling on this topic almost always concludes with the individual being asked saying "I'm fine but everyone else is suffering". And that can be seen on this forum where every Trump voter here declares that they are wealthy but acts like they are some kind of anomaly and everyone else in the country is homeless. When in reality being a millionaire is common AF.

So what about the 30%ish percent of American households who make 15-50K per year, just ****'em? Point is that there are two functioning economies, one for people who can afford stocks(and enough of them get the compounding benefits over time), and another for the people who can't. The #1 primer for people not already having wealth where compounding profits of stock makes any meaningful difference, will always be their hourly rate.

Nobody is saying that everyone is broke and homeless, that's just your programming as a radical leftist to go straight down the most extreme slippery slope. I never asked bladed if he was broke and homeless, I asked if he has more wealth now than 5 years ago...

I'm personally doing great, but it's not a fair comparison. I figured out a problem that a lot of companies have and can be doing better at solving, as well as a digital solution for it, so now I own a small software company and we're paid by businesses on a subscription basis.


Don't you live in Eastern Europe? Why do you care?

No, I don't live in Eastern Europe and I would need a very good reason to ever move there. I know you have silly fantasies about me working for Putin and getting bonuses paid in Iranian gold, but same as OTC that's your programming as a dumb radical leftist to seek an extreme slippery slope.
I'm generally a compassionate guy and like I told you, I wouldn't wish for anyone on ISH to be living in on the streets.

[Off the Court]

So what about the 30%ish percent of American households who make 15-50K per year, just ****'em?

How would you personally go about evening out the distribution of wealth? What is your solution?

[BigKobeFan]

How would you personally go about evening out the distribution of wealth? What is your solution?

Get a job, be innovative, invest, get out of your mom's basement

[Off the Court]

Get a job, be innovative, invest, get out of your mom's basement

Exactly. We're all set. It's on the people.

[ZenMaster]

How would you personally go about evening out the distribution of wealth? What is your solution?

Just need more production jobs which are more valuable than taking food orders, tariffs against near shoring and off shoring will solve that.