How credible is a Steph Curry GOAT case?

[dankok8]

I feel like a case can be made.

Emphasize offensive goodness, impact on the game (both small scale tactics and large scale team strategy), and ceiling raising. De-emphasize individual defense (although a positive interpretation sees him as an above average defender anyway) and lack of durability.

[StrongLurk]

Only thing GOAT about Steph is his shooting.

Mods, we can close this thread.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Only thing GOAT about Steph is his shooting.

Mods, we can close this thread.
https://fadeawayworld.net/stephen-curry-is-0-14-from-the-field-on-shots-to-take-the-lead-in-the-final-50-seconds-of-playoff-games


Now we can close thread.

OP I hope you're ok man. This is unhinged.

[3ba11]

Steph introduced the world to a superior way of playing and he's the best at this superior way

[Carbine]

I thought it was a simpleton way of playing?

[tontoz]

I thought it was a simpleton way of playing?

It was, until screwball realized that he could use Steph as part of his anti LeBron agenda.

[Hey Yo]

Only thing GOAT about Steph is his 3pt shooting.

Mods, we can close this thread.
Fixed

[bison]

I have him in my Mt HUNGMORE along with MJ, Kobe and Magic

[stalkerforlife]

Curry changed the game.

We gotta consider him for top 10 all time.

[tpols]

We have recently seen a thread where a poster who shall not be named, a very petty and petulant individual started a long hate campaign on the one known as Chef Dingo saying he's not close to Top 10 all time even in the midst of his record shattering Olympic performance.


While this topic may be jumping the gun, it's a nice counter thread to the aforementioned topic.

To find a balance I think we can all agree Curry is Top 5 GOAT with a chance to possibly move up depending on future longevity.

This is a nice and fair compromise fellas.

[Carbine]

That changing the game narrative applies to all the best players of their generation

You just weren't alive then to have experienced it.

Wilt/Russell

Kareem with his skyhook revolutionized the "go to" post move.

Magic changed the game being a towering point guard with the best passing gene.

MJ was MJ.

Shaq reset the bar as to what a physical specimen was. The league had to adjust to him in his peak.

Lebron and Steph.

Jokic to a lesser extent as a post player with the best passing gene in the league.

Wemby will likely be in this category down the line barring injury.

Curry is not nearly the only one to chance the game. It's a weak argument, as is his top 5 goat candidacy.

[tontoz]

Pretty sure nobody ever changed the way others play more than Steph. Kids didn't change the way they play much to emulate MJ, Kareem or Wilt because they couldn't do the things those guys do.

Steph is more relatable, using ball handling, shooting and off ball movement to dominate. That doesn't mean he is better than those guys but he has certainly been more influential than all of them.

[highwhey]

as much case as this chick has for the GOAT breakdancer

https://i.abcnewsfe.com/a/1ee44e01-4a08-4e80-bfce-c64f69be6bee/Raygun-3-gty-gmh-240812_1723472077546_hpMain.jpg

[gengiskhan]

....as credible as LBJ's GOAT case.

[warriorfan]

....as credible as LBJ's GOAT case.

it’s actually better

curry doesn’t have the team hops, he doesn’t have the chokes, he doesn’t have the GOAT choke (2011), where lebron joined the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league (Wade had FMVP experience as well), and went on to claim he’s going to get 8 titles in Miami and it’s “going to be easy” only to subsequently lose in the Finals while being outscored by 0 time all star, journeyman, undersized shooting guard, Jason Terry, despite Terry logging in 67 less minutes than Lebron during the Finals.

Bron has a bunch of empty stats from longevity but with his teamhops and finals disappointments, along with the goat choke, it really bombed his all time rating. There was a moment he could have been goat. It went really sideways for him after The Decision.

[SATAN]

OP and 90sgoat have lost their minds since Captain LeMerica happened.

Sad.

[hold this L]

I don't think he's there, but the level below the main 3 IMO. There's 4-5 guys there and Steph is in that conversation. Now if he say wins another chip and depending how it goes, you might start that conversation but that died along with the Lauri trade getting nixed.

[Axe]

In the rs, maybe. But when it comes to playoff resume, it's hard to imagine considering he didn't get a finals mvp until his sixth trip to the finals.

[StrongLurk]

Fixed

No he is the GOAT shooter period.

He has great midrange percentages too and has the highest FT% of all time.

[Carbine]

In the rs, maybe. But when it comes to playoff resume, it's hard to imagine considering he didn't get a finals mvp until his sixth trip to the finals.

He has no case for regular season GOAT under any normal criteria.

He certainly isn't the goat eye test wise. His accolades in the regular season are so far below other contenders.

Lebron has almost 10 more first team all NBA selections..... Twice as many MVPs. Way more longevity as a top player.


Jabbar has three times as many MVPs, 6 more first team all NBA's, goat tier longevity....

You would have to disregard accolades all together because he gets destroyed in that area.

[1987_Lakers]

What holds him back is his defense, if he was an all-nba defender during his prime you could make a case for him being top 5.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Russell

These are the Mt Rushmore, I don't see Curry having a case over any of those players. All of them have 4+ rings & 4+ MVPs. All of them except Russell were elite on both ends on the court at their peak. Russell on the other hand is by far the best defensive player in history & led a dynasty to 11 chips, that is hard to ignore.

Wilt vs Curry is an interesting debate. Wilt was the most dominant player this league has ever seen (numbers wise), but advanced stats suggest his impact wasn't as great, at least his offense. Curry to me is actually more impactful offensively if you look at the advanced numbers, but at the same time you can't ignore Wilt's huge advantage on the defensive end.

At this point I see Curry more in the Bird/Magic mold. bottom tier top 10 players who were all-time great offensively, but all 3 had question marks as defenders. Magic & Bird have more accolades over Curry in terms of MVPs & All-NBA selection while Curry has the edge in longevity over the two.

[warriorfan]

What holds him back is his defense, if he was an all-nba defender during his prime you could make a case for him being top 5.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Russell

These are the Mt Rushmore, I don't see Curry having a case over any of those players. All of them have 4+ rings & 4+ MVPs. All of them except Russell were elite on both ends on the court at their peak. Russell on the other hand is by far the best defensive player in history & led a dynasty to 11 chips, that is hard to ignore.

Wilt vs Curry is an interesting debate. Wilt was the most dominant player this league has ever seen (numbers wise), but advanced stats suggest his impact wasn't as great, at least his offense. Curry to me is actually more impactful offensively if you look at the advanced numbers, but at the same time you can't ignore Wilt's huge advantage on the defensive end.

At this point I see Curry more in the Bird/Magic mold. bottom tier top 10 players who were all-time great offensively, but all 3 had question marks as defenders. Magic & Bird have more accolades over Curry in terms of MVPs & All-NBA selection while Curry has the edge in longevity over the two.

If you look at advanced on/off metrics from Curry’s prime you will see he’s at worst a neutral defender, a lot of the years he’s a decent defender that is better than league average at point guard.

In his prime Curry would finish top of the league in many of these metrics even when not having all defensive team impact on that end.

You see the same thing with Jokic now, he is a +1.0 or something on defense but on offense he’s +10.0 so he still has the highest net rating in the league


So of course there’s value in a 2 way player. But a “one way player” can have just as much impact as a “2 way player”.

The opposite end of the spectrum of this analogy using Steph and Jokic is Bill Russell.

They don’t have on/off tracking data from that era but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had numbers that looked like +2.0 on offense and +8.0 on defense….So even though Russell is a one way player so to speak, he still is bringing as much impact as anyone to play the game.

[1987_Lakers]

If you look at advanced on/off metrics from Curry’s prime you will see he’s at worst a neutral defender, a lot of the years he’s a decent defender that is better than league average at point guard.

In his prime Curry would finish top of the league in many of these metrics even when not having all defensive team impact on that end.

You could say the same thing with the early years of Magic & Bird, especially Bird who actually made an all-defensive team early in his career. Curry was a decent defender at his peak, but because of his size, he had limitations. He got worse as he aged on defense, similar to Bird & Magic.

To me, if you want to be in the GOAT convo, you have to have a big impact on both ends of the court, unless you are this alien like player on offense who averages 40 ppg & has playmaking skills like Magic/LeBron or they have to have the defensive impact of Russell (which we won't see again because the league is so different) & win a shit ton of rings.

[warriorfan]

You could say the same thing with the early years of Magic & Bird, especially Bird who actually made an all-defensive team early in his career. Curry was a decent defender at his peak, but because of his size, he had limitations. He got worse as he aged on defense, similar to Bird & Magic.


Well you say because of his size, yes, but what you are missing here is for a PG he’s not necessarily undersized.

Like I said before if you go to peak years of Steph his defensive metrics are very on point with solid defenders at the point guard position.

With Bird and even Magic, they are big men…..so if you have a let’s say net neutral defender at a forward slot….its going to be more detrimental to your team’s defense than if your point guard was a mere neutral defender.

A big reason why Barkley never won even with insane offensive production is that him being a negative on D at the PF slot really hurt his teams. It’s hard to make a championship team with a PF who is a negative at Defense.



To me, if you want to be in the GOAT convo, you have to have a big impact on both ends of the court, unless you are this alien like player on offense who averages 40 ppg & has playmaking skills like Magic/LeBron or they have to have the defensive impact of Russell (which we won't see again because the league is so different) & win a shit ton of rings.

Going back to the last post. This line of logic is a logical fallacy.

If there’s a two way player who is +7 on offense and +5 on defense

And there’s a one way player who’s +12 on offense and +2 on defense



The one way player still has more impact.

[Axe]

He has no case for regular season GOAT under any normal criteria.

He certainly isn't the goat eye test wise. His accolades in the regular season are so far below other contenders.

Lebron has almost 10 more first team all NBA selections..... Twice as many MVPs. Way more longevity as a top player.


Jabbar has three times as many MVPs, 6 more first team all NBA's, goat tier longevity....

You would have to disregard accolades all together because he gets destroyed in that area.
Yeah, he's really lacking individual accolades when compared to those guys. That's the main caveat of being in a dynasty-fostered team.

[julizaver]

I feel like a case can be made.

Emphasize offensive goodness, impact on the game (both small scale tactics and large scale team strategy), and ceiling raising. De-emphasize individual defense (although a positive interpretation sees him as an above average defender anyway) and lack of durability.

He is universally recognized as GOAT shooter. But he is not the GOAT player. I have watched too many games especially in the playoffs, where his shot is not falling with the same accuracy in as in the regular season. And it is typical for players who rely heavily on their 3 point shooting - for example Klay Thompson. There is a reason why Durant got the two Finals MVP instead of Steph and also not to mention Iguodala taking the MVP in 2015 instead of main man Curry. I have watched all US games in Olympics and would not have problem with Steph taking the MVP instead of LBJ just because of his shooting performance in the semis and the final game. It just happens that his shot this time start falling at the right time and he killed France in the closing minutes. But the GOAT he is not.
Curry is the face of the 3pt era and GSW dynasty (if consider them dynasty), but as a player he is inferior to Durant and Lebron - the best two players of his generation.

[hold this L]

He is universally recognized as GOAT shooter. But he is not the GOAT player. I have watched too many games especially in the playoffs, where his shot is not falling with the same accuracy in as in the regular season. And it is typical for players who rely heavily on their 3 point shooting - for example Klay Thompson. There is a reason why Durant got the two Finals MVP instead of Steph and also not to mention Iguodala taking the MVP in 2015 instead of main man Curry. I have watched all US games in Olympics and would not have problem with Steph taking the MVP instead of LBJ just because of his shooting performance in the semis and the final game. It just happens that his shot this time start falling at the right time and he killed France in the closing minutes. But the GOAT he is not.
Curry is the face of the 3pt era and GSW dynasty (if consider them dynasty), but as a player he is inferior to Durant and Lebron - the best two players of his generation.
There's absolutely zero argments of KD being as good as Steph, let alone better than him. KD got FMVP because he was treated like Harrison Barnes in the NBA finals while averaging 35PPG. We've seen what KD looks like when teams treat him like Steph gets regularly treated in every playoff series since 2015, like Boston Nets a few years back.

[Hey Yo]

No he is the GOAT shooter period.

He has great midrange percentages too and has the highest FT% of all time.
He barely shoots from midrange to even consider him great from that range. If we're talking strictly 3pt shots then it's Curry. If it's strictly 2pt shots I'll take MJ. If it's anywhere from 27ft to the rim, I'll take KD or Dirk.

[1987_Lakers]

If there’s a two way player who is +7 on offense and +5 on defense

And there’s a one way player who’s +12 on offense and +2 on defense

That's the thing though, guys like LeBron & MJ were not just "+7 on offense" during their peak. Both of them were around +10 at their peak. And Curry for most of his career had the perfect roster around him they fit perfect with him, Klay took on the defensive assignments that Curry couldn't guard & provided more spacing for Curry, Draymond was pretty much the playmaker on the team.

Both MJ & LeBron have a higher career Offensive Box Plus/Minus than Curry with also being better defenders.

[warriorfan]

That's the thing though, guys like LeBron & MJ were not just "+7 on offense" during their peak. Both of them were around +10 at their peak. And Curry for most of his career had the perfect roster around him they fit perfect with him, Klay took on the defensive assignments that Curry couldn't guard & provided more spacing for Curry, Draymond was pretty much the playmaker on the team.

Both MJ & LeBron have a higher career Offensive Box Plus/Minus than Curry with also being better defenders.

Lebron wasn’t really boosting offenses to that level

Here is on off data from 538 from the last decade
https://i.postimg.cc/ZYxP4trg/IMG-4058.jpg

Here are the numbers sorted by Total adjusted plus minus
https://i.postimg.cc/LXKHyW5B/IMG-4059.jpg




You mentioned BPM. I’m personally not a fan. It’s too heavily influenced by box score and the creator of the stat has admitted himself that DPBM should not be used at all really, he never was able to work out the flaws in the stat defensively. A big reason is because it utilizes box score information so much and as we all know box score information does a very poor job at telling us what happened defensively.

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron wasn’t really boosting offenses to that level

Here is on off data from 538 from the last decade
https://i.postimg.cc/ZYxP4trg/IMG-4058.jpg

Here are the numbers sorted by Total adjusted plus minus
https://i.postimg.cc/LXKHyW5B/IMG-4059.jpg




You mentioned BPM. I’m personally not a fan. It’s too heavily influenced by box score and the creator of the stat has admitted himself that DPBM should not be used at all really, he never was able to work out the flaws in the stat defensively. A big reason is because it utilizes box score information so much and as we all know box score information does a very poor job at telling us what happened defensively.

This thing has Harden above LeBron & KD. :lol

It also only goes back to 2014, it leaves out the numbers from peak LeBron.

Would love to see LeBron's numbers in 2009 when he led an underwhelming roster to the #4 offense. Or 2013 when he was a menace all year offensively.

[tpols]

Lebron wasn’t really boosting offenses to that level

Here is on off data from 538 from the last decade
https://i.postimg.cc/ZYxP4trg/IMG-4058.jpg

Here are the numbers sorted by Total adjusted plus minus
https://i.postimg.cc/LXKHyW5B/IMG-4059.jpg




You mentioned BPM. I’m personally not a fan. It’s too heavily influenced by box score and the creator of the stat has admitted himself that DPBM should not be used at all really, he never was able to work out the flaws in the stat defensively. A big reason is because it utilizes box score information so much and as we all know box score information does a very poor job at telling us what happened defensively.


Incredible data.

And I'm not surprised at all that Curry and Jokic are at the top. Anybody with a brain can see that their impact is totally next level both in terms of individual production and, most importantly, team enhancement.

Lebron has the individual production but not the team enhancement. Which is why he ranks so much lower.

If you look at the playoff H2H records too this is validated once again. Both Curry and Jokic hold enormous W/L records vs Lebron.

[Carbine]

It's a simpleton argument.

Lebrons TEAMS are 2-3 in playoff series against Steph's teams. That's not a big deal.

It's even more of a nothing burger when you factor in Lebron played one of those series without his #2 and #3 options and 2017 and 2018 was against possibly the best team ever assembled. No shame losing to that with one of those years having your #3 and #4 options being JR Smith and George Hill and your #2 option only doing 15 a game on 39 percent shooting. He dragged that 2018 team to the finals. Of course the best team assembled of the last almost 3 decades was going to beat that Cavs team. There was nothing Lebron could have done to win that 2018 title. Did you want him to average 45/15/10 on 65 TS? It's just a very weak argument to use this against Lebron in a Curry debate. Doesn't pass the basic logic test

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/(edited)_Screenshot_20220701-162940.png

[Carbine]

https://youtu.be/XE-BFmWb9f8?si=8ckO8L39zxzqBuxZ

You can watch for yourself. It has every Durant highlight in there of the finals. Very very very few points were scored "because" of Curry. It was Durant scoring the way he always has, whether playing in OKC or Brooklyn.

[tontoz]

https://youtu.be/XE-BFmWb9f8?si=8ckO8L39zxzqBuxZ

You can watch for yourself. It has every Durant highlight in there of the finals. Very very very few points were scored "because" of Curry. It was Durant scoring the way he always has, whether playing in OKC or Brooklyn.


What you don't see is more important than what you do see in that vid. What you don't see is Durant getting doubled which happened to Curry routinely, sometimes when he didn't even have the ball. If Durant beat his man, which isn't tough for him, he got an easy look because help was slow to come or non existent.

[Axe]

What does curry do on defense that can be considered noteworthy whenever his opponents have the ball? I don't seem to recall any. He isn't exactly what you can call very clutch in the playoffs either.

[jstern]

What does curry do on defense that can be considered noteworthy whenever his opponents have the ball? I don't seem to recall any. He isn't exactly what you can call very clutch in the playoffs either.

What is it with you and RRR3 copying my avatar? In your case, a smiling version.

Is it the Hot Pockets?

[Axe]

Oof autistic alert. :eek:

[jstern]

Oof autistic alert. :eek:

You're better off with an avatar of a whale, or an elephant. Or hippopotamus, like CavaliersFTW currently has.

[Axe]

https://c.tenor.com/34WjKzkaKVgAAAAC/tenor.gif
:roll:

[jstern]

:roll:

https://images2.imgbox.com/fe/41/s8ItjumW_o.jpg

Where are your ankles?

[highwhey]

Where are your ankles?

very interesting. you're replying to axe within 4-6minutes. your obsession with him is escalating as if it wasn't already at an extreme level, now you're accosting him in the NBA forum.

[Axe]

:blah
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Autism_Speaks_Rebrand.png

[RRR3]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Autism_Speaks_Rebrand.png
Axe you got to use the exact same avatar so people think you're him, that's what makes him the most mad.

This one:http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=83917&dateline=1558475545

[90sgoat]

If you're sitting around with smart and socially ambitious people, drinking, then sure, you can make a case for Curry

People who touch grass can see that Curry changed the game, became a bigger icon than anyone but Kobe AND went on to win several rings.

For people who live in the real world, they don't watch these shows, don't look at analydids, they vibe, they look at who wins, who looks good winning, who has swag and mainstream appeal. Curry has all that.

It's like I always say, Magic, Bird, Jordan ... you can name your GOAT. Heck, even Hakeem might have an argument for GOAT, Wilt has an argument, just the way they play and change the game.

[jstern]

Axe you got to use the exact same avatar so people think you're him, that's what makes him the most mad.

This one:http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=83917&dateline=1558475545

I like RRR3, but Axe, you have to grow a spine and tell RRR3 to go f*ck himself.

https://media.tenor.com/gVvmye-lLAcAAAAM/elon-musk-gfy.gif

Why are you following what RRR3 tells you?

[RRR3]

I like RRR3, but Axe, you have to grow a spine and tell RRR3 to go f*ck himself.

https://media.tenor.com/gVvmye-lLAcAAAAM/elon-musk-gfy.gif

Why are you following what RRR3 tells you?
Typing through the tears.

[jstern]

Typing through the tears.

You need to stop manipulating Axe or any other young boy.

[RRR3]

pedostern having a meltdown :lol

[jstern]

pedostern having a meltdown :lol

https://images2.imgbox.com/8d/50/FS3xY2ax_o.jpg

[RRR3]

Very interesting you cropped out my hand in that pic to try and make it look like I'm touching that kid. https://www.flickr.com/photos/msig/30306690846/in/album-72157671565007044/

Why did you crop the pic after paying an internet detective to find pics of me? Having that level of dedication to trying to paint people you don't like as pedophiles is veryyyyyy suspicious. Let's not forget you also accused highwhey and Burninghammer of being pedophiles with pretty spurious evidence as well, and ignore your buddies Patrick Chewing and warriorfan saying they find 13 year olds attractive....I'm thinking your hard drive is full of some veryyyy unforunate stuff, pedostern.

[Axe]

:roll:

[RRR3]

:roll:
Whenever he gets rattled, he accuses others of pedophilia, but we know he's fine with pedophilia because his best friends Fatrick and Warriorfan have said they find 13 year old girls attractive (in fact fatrick said he'd be into a 2 year old "if they had curves"). So clearly he has no problem with pedophilia and must be projecting. I think we need to alert the authorities about jstern.

[Axe]

Whenever he gets rattled, he accuses others of pedophilia, but we know he's fine with pedophilia because his best friends Fatrick and Warriorfan have said they find 13 year old girls attractive (in fact fatrick said he'd be into a 2 year old "if they had curves"). So clearly he has no problem with pedophilia and must be projecting. I think we need to alert the authorities about jstern.
Lol he's also a hypocrite. And seeing others don his avatar is driving him really crazy. I mean he wouldn't have posted itt before me in the first place if it wasn't for that. Now he's derailed it.

[RRR3]

Lol he's also a hypocrite. And seeing others don his avatar is driving him really crazy. I mean he wouldn't have posted itt before me in the first place if it wasn't for that. Now he's derailed it.
99% of his posts are about you :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

https://images2.imgbox.com/8d/50/FS3xY2ax_o.jpg

:roll:


What a weird guy. He goes to these trashy events by himself and then creeps next to little kids….


Pedo vibes for sure :lol

[1987_Lakers]

For a sec I thought everyone who posted on this page was the same poster.

[RRR3]

I'd **** 13 year old Kim Kardashian
:biggums:

@fbi

[jstern]

Very interesting you cropped out my hand in that pic to try and make it look like I'm touching that kid. https://www.flickr.com/photos/msig/30306690846/in/album-72157671565007044/

Why did you crop the pic after paying an internet detective to find pics of me? Having that level of dedication to trying to paint people you don't like as pedophiles is veryyyyyy suspicious. Let's not forget you also accused highwhey and Burninghammer of being pedophiles with pretty spurious evidence as well, and ignore your buddies Patrick Chewing and warriorfan saying they find 13 year olds attractive....I'm thinking your hard drive is full of some veryyyy unforunate stuff, pedostern.

I didn't crop that image, and I never accused Burning Hammer (nor highwhey who himself said something about lil baddies) of being pedophiles.

I've mentioned that Burning Hammer was exposed by others, but I never called him a pedo. I've only accused Burning Hammer of being a "net citizen" because he's into all sort of obscured internet related things, such, Tetris, speed running, wrestling, obscure porno songs from the 80s (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517305-The-Most-Elusive-Lost-Song-Has-Just-Been-Found), and Lil Tay (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?513597-RIP-Lil-Tay).

Like who the f$ck is Stonetoss (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?516737-Stonetoss-has-been-doxxed)? And what kind of grown man would be into Lil Tay?

[warriorfan]

If you're sitting around with smart and socially ambitious people, drinking, then sure, you can make a case for Curry

People who touch grass can see that Curry changed the game, became a bigger icon than anyone but Kobe AND went on to win several rings.

For people who live in the real world, they don't watch these shows, don't look at analydids, they vibe, they look at who wins, who looks good winning, who has swag and mainstream appeal. Curry has all that.

It's like I always say, Magic, Bird, Jordan ... you can name your GOAT. Heck, even Hakeem might have an argument for GOAT, Wilt has an argument, just the way they play and change the game.

Yeah, imagine having a discussion with someone who knows basketball and them start talking about Steph Curry’s lack of media awards and then them trying to end the discussion there. :lol


ESPN said so boys, looks like the discussion is over!

:lol


Absurd

[RRR3]

you clearly are accusing burninghammer of being a pedo here http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517617-RIP-Doge

Very suspicious considering you're ok with open pedophilia from patrick chewing and warriorfan. Now if you called them out too, maybe I'd just think "hey jstern just cares a lot about protecting kids from predators", but you don't so it's incredibly suspicious....

[1987_Lakers]

Yeah, imagine having a discussion with someone who knows basketball and them start talking about Steph Curry’s lack of media awards and then them trying to end the discussion there. :lol


ESPN said so boys, looks like the discussion is over!

:lol


Absurd

You can continue living in your imaginary world if you want. Almost nobody has Curry in the GOAT convo.


It's like I always say, Magic, Bird, Jordan ... you can name your GOAT. Heck, even Hakeem might have an argument for GOAT, Wilt has an argument, just the way they play and change the game.

:oldlol:

[RRR3]

You can continue living in your imaginary world if you want. Almost nobody has Curry in the GOAT convo.



:oldlol:
Careful he'll start calling you a short Mexican and threatening to meet up and fight you again.

[tontoz]

I think a decent case can be made for Steph being in the top 10. At the very least he is top 15. I just don't see a case for top 3 though.

[RRR3]

I think a decent case can be made for Steph being in the top 10. At the very least he is top 15. I just don't see a case for top 3 though.
He's definitely top 10, top 3 is quite a stretch though.

[jstern]

you clearly are accusing burninghammer of being a pedo here http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517617-RIP-Doge

Very suspicious considering you're ok with open pedophilia from patrick chewing and warriorfan. Now if you called them out too, maybe I'd just think "hey jstern just cares a lot about protecting kids from predators", but you don't so it's incredibly suspicious....

I clearly did not call Burning Hammer a pedo in that post. I said that he actively engages and creates threads about obscure internet related things. And I complimented him for finding enjoyment in participating in these niche things.

The mentioning of Lil Tay was an example of how despite Burning Hammer being a grown man, he's into such niche people, because he finds joy in all these obscure things.

He's having the time of his life on the internet, which made me suspect that he's Axe. (Diamenz proved that he wasn't (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?518125-no-comment).)

[highwhey]

I clearly did not call Burning Hammer a pedo in that post. I said that he actively engages and creates threads about obscure internet related things. And I complimented him for finding enjoyment in participating in these niche things.

The mentioning of Lil Tay was an example of how despite Burning Hammer being a grown man, he's into such niche people, because he finds joy in all these obscure things.

He's having the time of his life on the internet, which made me suspect that he's Axe. (Diamenz proved that he wasn't (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?518125-no-comment).)

Meltdown

[highwhey]

I didn't crop that image, and I never accused Burning Hammer (nor highwhey who himself said something about lil baddies) of being pedophiles.

I've mentioned that Burning Hammer was exposed by others, but I never called him a pedo. I've only accused Burning Hammer of being a "net citizen" because he's into all sort of obscured internet related things, such, Tetris, speed running, wrestling, obscure porno songs from the 80s (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517305-The-Most-Elusive-Lost-Song-Has-Just-Been-Found), and Lil Tay (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?513597-RIP-Lil-Tay).

Like who the f$ck is Stonetoss (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?516737-Stonetoss-has-been-doxxed)? And what kind of grown man would be into Lil Tay?

oh wow, another 5 minute reply. you have multiple replies just in this thread alone that are a couple minutes apart, you are escalating your obsessive behavior.

[iamgine]

Incredibly Uncredible

[Axe]

99% of his posts are about you :oldlol:
He does that to a lot of other posters he doesn't get along with. It was a little amusing at first but becomes eyesore and pathetic over time, especially when he keeps filling those silly essays with stupid lies. The saddest thing about it is that he keeps doing it every week. Idk if it's his own way of attempting to be funny itb but it just completely exposes him as very autistic and unhinged. Not surprising tho.

[Axe]

For a sec I thought everyone who posted on this page was the same poster.
:yaohappy:

[jstern]

:yaohappy:

It's very disappointing that you have let RRR3, of all people, become your alpha. He tells you to change your Axe avatar, that you've had since you were 13 years old, and you go ahead and change it. He then asks you to change it to the exact same one that he has, because he didn't like that yours was smiling, and you go ahead and change it again.

This is very disappointing.

So if RRR3 tells you to make out with one of his trannie friends, are you going to do it? What if he asks you to create an account in his trannie forum?

[Axe]

:blah

Stop derailing threads, you autistic moron.

[highwhey]

It's very disappointing that you have let RRR3, of all people, become your alpha. He tells you to change your Axe avatar, that you've had since you were 13 years old, and you go ahead and change it. He then asks you to change it to the exact same one that he has, because he didn't like that yours was smiling, and you go ahead and change it again.

This is very disappointing.

So if RRR3 tells you to make out with one of his trannie friends, are you going to do it? What if he asks you to create an account in his trannie forum?

oh wow, a 3 minute reply. :eek:

[warriorfan]

This thing has Harden above LeBron & KD. :lol

It also only goes back to 2014, it leaves out the numbers from peak LeBron.

Would love to see LeBron's numbers in 2009 when he led an underwhelming roster to the #4 offense. Or 2013 when he was a menace all year offensively.


Incredible data.

And I'm not surprised at all that Curry and Jokic are at the top. Anybody with a brain can see that their impact is totally next level both in terms of individual production and, most importantly, team enhancement.

Lebron has the individual production but not the team enhancement. Which is why he ranks so much lower.

If you look at the playoff H2H records too this is validated once again. Both Curry and Jokic hold enormous W/L records vs Lebron.


The data don’t lie. Everything on that list looks pretty legit to be honest. The company who made that metric got bought out big time to do political shit. They don’t even do this small time nba stuff anymore unfortunately.

But is it truly a shocker that Lebron scores closer to James Harden than he does to Curry and Jokic?

Like we said eye test backs this up….Lebron pumps up the box score but his teams aren’t as efficient as a Jokic or Steph team. You can squirm around all you want claiming needs more help or whatever but according to his box score, Lebron has had an extended prime of around 20 years…if you want to argue he’s had such bad luck and all of his teammates are so bad…okay, it’s just gets a bit insane at some point.

[Phoenix]

Tier 3 all-time player(. If you want to rank him, that translates to anything from 9th to 15th.

[warriorfan]

Tier 3 all-time player(. If you want to rank him, that translates to anything from 9th to 15th.

this is a good but very pessimistic floor type ranking for him

[Phoenix]

this is a good but very pessimistic floor type ranking for him

Well I have Jordan, Kareem, Lebron and Russell as Tier 1. They are the most decorated players in history.

Tier 2 I got Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Wilt, Kobe. That's the next level of domination/accolades.

Steph to me is Tier 3 with Oscar, West, Dr. J, Durant, Moses. Or you can move him into Tier 2 after Kobe and I won't argue. I don't think he has an case for GOAT, to me the 'this player can be a GOAT depending on criteria' is the Tier 1 guys. Tier 2 is just below that, GOATs but no case for being 'the GOAT.

[Stephonit]

Well I have Jordan, Kareem, Lebron and Russell as Tier 1. They are the most decorated players in history.

Tier 2 I got Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Wilt, Kobe. That's the next level of domination/accolades.

Steph to me is Tier 3 with Oscar, West, Dr. J, Durant, Moses. Rank him however you wish in that grouping, but I don't put him above the players in Tier 1 and 2 career-wise/dominane wise. You could make an argument that Stephs style pioneered an era and move him into Tier 2 and I wouldn't argue. I don't think he has an case for GOAT, to me the 'this player can be a GOAT depending on criteria' is the TIer 1 guys. Tier 2 is just below that, GOATs but no case for being 'the GOAT.

You must be low on the Warriors as a team historically for that list to make any sense. If the Warriors are the greatest NBA team of all-time then having both its lead players in tier 3 while other teams have their 2 leads in higher tiers makes no sense.

Kareem and Magic higher? Shaq and Kobe higher? Kareem and Oscar higher? Wilt and West higher? You think the teams those guys were known for are greater than the Curry-Durant Warriors? Morever putting KD in that tier 3 is based on what?

[Phoenix]

You must be low on the Warriors as a team historically for that list to make any sense. If the Warriors are the greatest NBA team of all-time then having both its lead players in tier 3 while other teams have their 2 leads in higher tiers makes no sense.

Kareem and Magic higher? Shaq and Kobe higher? Kareem and Oscar higher? Wilt and West higher? You think the teams those guys were known for are greater than the Curry-Durant Warriors? Morever putting KD in that tier 3 is based on what?

What is KDs career outside of 2017 and 2018? He's a great player, but what has his talent translated to in terms of team winning outside of being on a team that had already won and has the all-time record? He couldn't keep it together in Brooklyn, granted thats not all on him but I do factor in leadership intangibles and he's be the first to tell you he don't give a fukk about that. That's why I have Steph over him, KD in isolation may be a more dynamic unguardable talent but 'I just wanna hope' doesn't galvanize the lockerrom and thats why he's never won, or will ever win, outside the Warriors. Not as a main guy anyway. There's alot of guys with the talent and could hang on the floor with anyone. Prime Tmac could hang with the GOATS but his talent never translated to wins and losses and then he got hurt. It is what it is.

I also saw most of the guys in tier 1 and 2 and I just think they were just better players overall. I have my reasons, and it's not an exact science. Based on your name its obvious why you favor, so there is little point me explaining myself further.

[Stephonit]

What is KDs carrer outside of 2017 and 2018? He's a great player, but what has his talent translated to in terms of team winning outside of being on a team that had already won and has the all-time record. I also saw most of the guys in tier 1 and 2 and I just think they were just better players overall. I have my reasons, and it's not an exact science. Based on your name its obvious why you favor, so there is little point me explaining myself further.

You seem to misunderstand my question regarding KD. Why is KD even in the same tier as Oscar, West, Dr. J, and Moses?

For the sake of argument let's say Oscar has the least impressive career of that group. Without Kareem, his supporters will probably say he had the most unfortunate supporting cast of the lot in comparison to KD who separate from the Warriors still played with one of the best supporting casts.

[Phoenix]

You seem to misunderstand my question regarding KD. Why is KD even in the same tier as Oscar, West, Dr. J, and Moses?

Why wouldn't he be? What makes those guys careers worse, or them worse however you define it? Answer my question, why am I supposed to put him on a pedestal for 2017 and 2018? Alot of great players win in that situation. There is a wide gap between a Harrison Barnes and KD as far as SFs who win in that situation. I know what KD is and isn't, and he's been that for 17 years. It's not a secret at this point.

Moses is probably underrated. I can make the case that Oscars main claim to fame is less relevant now because we're in an inflated stats era so the triple double is less important than when he was doing it over seasons, and he only won as Kareems sidekick. I can roll with that. But do I think KD is in Tier 2? With Shaq? Hakeem? Duncan? Kobe? Magic? Bird? Hell no.

[Stephonit]

Why wouldn't he be? What makes those guys careers worse, or them worse however you define it. Answer my question, why am I supposed to put him on a pedastal for 2017 and 2018. Alot of great players win in that situation. Moses is probably underrated. I can make the case that Oscars main claim to fame is less relevant now because we're in an inflates stats era so the triple double is less important than when he was doing it over seasons. But do I think KD is in Tier 2? With Shaq? Hakeem? Duncan? Kobe? Magic? Bird? Hell no

Let me rephrase: Why isn't KD in Tier 4? Outside of the Warriors KD's main career highlights is one MVP and one finals appearance and that's with some strong supporting rosters. Compare that to someone like Moses who has 3 MVPs and made a finals with a weak cast or Oscar who has an MVP and was generally thought to be on weak teams constantly facing the dynasty Celtics.

[Phoenix]

Let me rephrase: Why isn't KD in Tier 4?

He could be. Like I said, its not a science. My Tier 4 would be guys like Dirk, Garnett, Robinson, Wade, Mailman. Hell, At this point Jokic could be Tier 2 or 3 but he's still writing his career. Giannis could be tier 2 or 3. These guys are still playing and writing their story. Again, there is nothing consistent or exact about these conversations. Alot of it feel and preference.

I read your edit. So you're saying KD should be below tier 3. Sure. Talentwise he's a Tier 2 but for what he's actually done outside 2017 and 18? Yeah sure, Tier 4. I'm not spending the night debating something this non-scientific though.

[Stephonit]

I haven't addressed the original poster yet so let me do so now.

Curry has quite a few things in his column that make him an obvious candidate.

To start with the most basic things you expect to see in terms of results are in his favor.

Led the team with the single season regular season wins record. ( Implies that he is ranked first according to this metric)
Led the team with the single season playoffs wins record. (First)
Led the team with the most dramatic turnaround from bottom dweller to champion. (First)

Is the master of the biggest weapon in the game. (First)
Is the key guy in the team widely considered to be the best in NBA history. (First)
Has a season that is arguably the greatest statistical season ever thus a unanimous MVP. (First)

All the above are not just arguments for top 10, they are arguments for greatest ever. They are not forced or stretched arguments either they are natural arguments. These are all things you could have anticipated a player who is the greatest ever to have a claim to being even at the start of this exercise of determining who it is if entering without preconceptions. The above points are also minimally debatable. Some of them are outright just Steph alone while the others have maybe only one or two legitimate contenders for the claim.

Steph plays in the modern era. Some older guys may have more impressive numbers in some categories but playing in the modern era with its 4 rounds of best of 7 series in the playoffs and deeper field one could argue should give modern players a boost in comparisons to players from earlier eras.

In a similar vein Steph has played in the tougher conference in a non-expansion era. It's also a player movement era which means that the constantly evolving league keeps giving different challenges making it harder to keep on trotting out the same team to defeat the same adversaries that you've already shown to own.

When one looks just at the common sense basics Steph has a fairly straightforward case. The extra stuff media creates are just made-up distractions.

[1987_Lakers]

You seem to misunderstand my question regarding KD. Why is KD even in the same tier as Oscar, West, Dr. J, and Moses?

Moses was the KD of his era, he joined a superteam to win a title, didn't really have success outside of that '83 chip. Dr. J never won without Moses.

[3ba11]

It makes sense that the greatest 3-point shooter (Curry) and the best 2-point shooter (MJ) should be 1 and 2, or vice versa... I prefer the pure basketball side of things, so I would go with the best 2-point jumpshooter and assume that the best 2-point shooter would easily pick up threes and probably already showed great aptitude and potential in that area - the best 2-point jumpshooter would also be the best in the 70's when there was no 3-point line.... Btw, Curry has more MVP's than Kobe and won with Klay < Pau (a lot less).. Pau was a franchise player (expected to build something from scratch), while Klay never was.

[Phoenix]

It makes sense that the greatest 3-point shooter (Curry) and the best 2-point shooter (MJ) should be 1 and 2, or vice versa... I prefer the pure basketball side of things, so I would go with the best 2-point jumpshooter and assume that the best 2-point shooter would easily pick up threes and probably already showed great aptitude and potential in that area - the best 2-point jumpshooter would also be the best in the 70's when there was no 3-point line.... Btw, Curry has more MVP's than Kobe and won with Klay < Pau (a lot less).. Pau was a franchise player (expected to build something from scratch), while Klay never was.

No it doesn't. At all. Do I need to bring up that thing again?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

it’s actually better

curry doesn’t have the team hops, he doesn’t have the chokes, he doesn’t have the GOAT choke (2011), where lebron joined the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league (Wade had FMVP experience as well), and went on to claim he’s going to get 8 titles in Miami and it’s “going to be easy” only to subsequently lose in the Finals while being outscored by 0 time all star, journeyman, undersized shooting guard, Jason Terry, despite Terry logging in 67 less minutes than Lebron during the Finals.

Bron has a bunch of empty stats from longevity but with his teamhops and finals disappointments, along with the goat choke, it really bombed his all time rating. There was a moment he could have been goat. It went really sideways for him after The Decision.

Agreed. I certainly have the Chef over LeEPO and it's not even close. I value someone who doesn't shrink in bright lights.

[Jasper]

Curry is a super star in his era, and a HOF'er ... that is all.

[Stephonit]

Steph is the only serious challenger to the status as the best in the last 25 years.

[ILLsmak]

We know how I feel about Bron, but hard to say Steph is better. To me Curry is probably a tier 2 guy who usually plays like a tier 3, but he can come so close to tier 1 (which imo there isn’t anyone who is always playing on that level,) you have to plan for it. He’s more fire than Kobe or Ivo cuz 3s. He doesn’t need the ball to shift d.

I finally understand the way Steph seems underrated and overrated at once. He doesn’t always play and he doesn’t need to play at top form. But he is hot sauce on a different level.

Still not GOAT and he has no case over Bron. He’s closer to Kobe, a transformative player with cultural impact, but Bron’s resume is retarded. It’s prol true he’s getting empty stats now, but you gotta be hating to think people are gonna care too much after he retires.

Mj is the only one he’ll never be, but he’s top 2 arguable by resume and peak skill.

-Smak

[ImKobe]

He's the best since Kobe but I can't go as far as to say that he has a case for GOAT with 4 rings. Had he won in 2016 & had everything else played out the same way I could have made an argument for him.

[ArbitraryWater]

He's the best since Kobe but I can't go as far as to say that he has a case for GOAT with 4 rings. Had he won in 2016 & had everything else played out the same way I could have made an argument for him.


:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Steph is the only serious challenger to the status as the best in the last 25 years.

Who has the status

[Stephonit]

Who has the status

The conventional answer is Jordan but I give Russell and Kareem enough due that I can see insistence upon separating by era. The only player since Jordan who I can see as demarcating another era is Curry.

[SATAN]

He's the best since Kobe but I can't go as far as to say that he has a case for GOAT with 4 rings. Had he won in 2016 & had everything else played out the same way I could have made an argument for him.

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeWQxdm1yYTF1cG02cTFtZjF3ZnB2aHc wbmcyZnhobXRmeWRpbGZzaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/a7ukdWatoY8CI/giphy.gif

[ImKobe]

:oldlol:

He's the only player that led a dynasty in his era. Greatest RS ever. 4 - 2 in the Finals. 21 - 13 Finals record. Greatest shooter ever. Peak as good as anyone's. Arguably the most influential player ever.

[1987_Lakers]

He's the only player that led a dynasty in his era.

Never won FMVP over Durant

Just like Kobe didn't win FMVP over Shaq

[gengiskhan]

Never won FMVP over Durant

Just like Kobe didn't win FMVP over Shaq

Shaq actually called kobe his "little brother"

Kobe was always a beachmade.

reason he deliberately sabotaged 2004 Finals in lu of 2004 FMVP.

[ImKobe]

Shaq actually called kobe his "little brother"

Kobe was always a beachmade.

reason he deliberately sabotaged 2004 Finals in lu of 2004 FMVP.

Shaq also said Kobe was the best player in the world.

Be careful.

[1987_Lakers]

Shaq also said Kobe was the best player in the world.

Be careful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5PDgv5y-S0

[gengiskhan]

Shaq also said Kobe was the best player in the world.

Be careful.

when there is no weight on his shoulders to deliver anything.

when someone has already "gifted" him a 3peat championships before age 24.

Sure you look world's best by shot jocking at 44%FG. :lol

[HoopsNY]

The data don’t lie. Everything on that list looks pretty legit to be honest. The company who made that metric got bought out big time to do political shit. They don’t even do this small time nba stuff anymore unfortunately.

But is it truly a shocker that Lebron scores closer to James Harden than he does to Curry and Jokic?

Like we said eye test backs this up….Lebron pumps up the box score but his teams aren’t as efficient as a Jokic or Steph team. You can squirm around all you want claiming needs more help or whatever but according to his box score, Lebron has had an extended prime of around 20 years…if you want to argue he’s had such bad luck and all of his teammates are so bad…okay, it’s just gets a bit insane at some point.

You make a solid point here. I don't necessarily agree, but when it comes to Jokic and Magic, for their respected eras and careers, many people then and now will have them #1 or top 3. Their defense wasn't great either, but many will consider their offensive impact to make up for it.

Steph is in a similar category. And I'd argue that he's more impactful off the ball than with the ball in his hands. His style of play revolutionized the game and the system in which he's played. This cannot be argued, and I think there is some credence to what it is that you're saying.

Having said that, it's hard to get away from the postseason performances and him not winning a FMVP until 2022. We'll never know what happens in 2017 and 2018 without KD, but he had a chance in 2019.

In game 6, it was Klay carrying the team. Steph put up 21 points on a putrid 35%, including 27% from 3. In the 4th quarter he went 1-6 (16%). Once again, we found him to be underwhelming in situations where it mattered the most.

2022 was a sort of redemption, but it took pretty long for him to finally secure a FMVP.

[Hey Yo]

Curry's just a shorter version of Reggie Miller.... runaround, catch and shoot.

[tontoz]

Curry's just a shorter version of Reggie Miller.... runaround, catch and shoot.


That's idiotic. You obviously have Curry confused with Klay. You clearly haven't watched them play which explains your other low IQ takes

[1987_Lakers]

Having said that, it's hard to get away from the postseason performances and him not winning a FMVP until 2022. We'll never know what happens in 2017 and 2018 without KD, but he had a chance in 2019.

In game 6, it was Klay carrying the team. Steph put up 21 points on a putrid 35%, including 27% from 3. In the 4th quarter he went 1-6 (16%). Once again, we found him to be underwhelming in situations where it mattered the most.

2022 was a sort of redemption, but it took pretty long for him to finally secure a FMVP.

I think his bad performances in some big games has to do with his play style, not saying he is just a shooter, but when the majority of your attempts come from 3, there is going to be some stretches of games where you are simply cold no matter how good of a shooter you are & especially in the playoffs where teams tighten up their defense. His consistency was never on the level of a LeBron, MJ, or Magic because of this.

He had some all-time great regular seasons, in particular in 2016. But he never had an overall postseason run that was as magical as '91 MJ, '00 Shaq, '18 LeBron, '94 Hakeem, or '03 Duncan.

[tpols]

I think his bad performances in some big games has to do with his play style, not saying he is just a shooter, but when the majority of your attempts come from 3, there is going to be some stretches of games where you are simply cold no matter how good of a shooter you are & especially in the playoffs where teams tighten up their defense. His consistency was never on the level of a LeBron, MJ, or Magic because of this.

He had some all-time great regular seasons, in particular in 2016. But he never had an overall postseason run that was as magical as '91 MJ, '00 Shaq, '18 LeBron, '94 Hakeem, or '03 Duncan.


Eh... in 2022 he definitely did. The Warriors weren't even expected to be title contenders and he led them to the chip averaging 31/6/5 on sniper efficiency and carried them when it looked like it was over.


https://youtu.be/xlGCQ1uq5XE?si=VmyuN_yUGLseS8GE

Literally led a underdog Championship squad with Andrew Wiggins as his 2nd option.

Grouping 2018 Lebron in that list when he didn't even win and his team got blown out by the biggest margin of defeat in NBA Finals history is crazy work too.

[1987_Lakers]

Eh... in 2022 he definitely did.

Curry was pretty "meh" leading up to the Finals that year. His series performance vs the Mavs & Grizzlies were mediocre.

His best overall postseason run came in 2017, the same year Durant won FMVP over him.

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron on the other hand in 2018 was a one man show averaging 35/9/9 on 62 TS% & basically willing his team to the Finals. It's probably the greatest individual run I have ever witnessed.

[tpols]

LeBron on the other hand in 2018 was a one man show averaging 35/9/9 on 62 TS% & basically willing his team to the Finals. It's probably the greatest individual run I have ever witnessed.

Yea but they beat rookie teenage Tatum and Brown Celtics to get there. The east was extremely weak. Curry beat the full form evolved version 4 years of experience later.

Nobody on Boston even averaged 20 ppg in their ECF vs Cleveland. They didn't have a single star player since Hayward snapped his leg in half and Kyrie was out.

[1987_Lakers]

Yea but they beat rookie teenage Tatum and Brown Celtics to get there. The east was extremely weak. Curry beat the full form evolved version 4 years of experience later. Nobody on Boston even averaged 20 ppg in their ECF vs Cleveland. They didn't have a single star player since Hayward snapped his leg in half and Kyrie was out.

Cavs were a legit 15-20 win team without LeBron that year. As a team it was obvious to everyone that Indiana & Boston were better, but LeBron just went GOAT mode throughout that entire run. He also beat Boston the last two games without Kevin Love.

But this isn't about LeBron, this is about Curry. Are you secretly trying to deflect after you called his 2022 run legendary after I just showed you how mediocre he was vs Dallas & Memphis that year?

[tpols]

Cavs were a legit 15-20 win team without LeBron that year. As a team it was obvious to everyone that Indiana & Boston were better but LeBron just went GOAT mode throughout that entire run. He also beat Boston the last two games without Kevin Love.

But this isn't about LeBron, this is about Curry. Are you secretly trying to deflect after you called his 2022 run legendary after I just showed you how mediocre he was vs Dallas & Memphis that year?

Lebron played fantastic in the east that run but the bolded isn't even remotely true.

https://i.postimg.cc/0j0WR4cC/Screenshot-20240818-142126-Chrome.jpg

The 2018 Cleveland Cavs were huge favorites to come out of the East. And they didn't have any signifigant injuries like the Celtics did.

The Pacers were an astounding +125,000 odds to win the title and you name dropped them.

:roll:

The Cavs were by far the number 2 title contenders in that year backed by the above time stamped factual data.

[1987_Lakers]

Going the 3ball route and bringing up pre-season odds. Do you ever come up with your own original ideas? Cavs had a 30-22 record at one point and traded half their roster at the trade deadline because of how bad they were. And it was obvious to everyone watching how bad LeBron's teammates were during the playoffs. The money line tends to favor the team with the superstar and LeBron proved Vegas right because he carried his team.

You literally tried to put 2022 Curry's postseason run as "all-time great" despite having 2 bad series in that playoff run.

Embarrassing.

[RRR3]

Going the 3ball route and bringing up pre-season odds. Do you ever come up with your own original ideas? Cavs had a 30-22 record at one point and traded half their roster at the trade deadline because of how bad they were. And it was obvious to everyone watching how bad LeBron's teammates were during the playoffs. The money line tends to favor the team with the superstar and LeBron proved Vegas right because he carried his team.

You literally tried to put 2022 Curry's postseason run as "all-time great" despite having 2 bad series in that playoff run.

Embarrassing.
Not to mention LeBron beats the Warriors in game 1 if it weren't for the most blatantly rigged officiating I've ever seen. Corrupt af. But he won't point that out.

[Hey Yo]

Yea but they beat rookie teenage Tatum and Brown Celtics to get there. The east was extremely weak. Curry beat the full form evolved version 4 years of experience later.

Nobody on Boston even averaged 20 ppg in their ECF vs Cleveland. They didn't have a single star player since Hayward snapped his leg in half and Kyrie was out.

Boston was up 3-2 in the series....Love played 5mins in game 6 and missed game 7.

[tpols]

The Celtics being without two of their All Stars in Kyrie and Hayward was a far bigger blow to Boston than anything Cleveland went through in 2018...

But the biggest thing that blew my mind was you hyping the Oladipo +125,000 odds underdogs as being better than the Cavs.

That's actually insane. :lol

[Hey Yo]

Hayward wasn't an All-star that year. LeBron playing in his 8th consecutive conference Finals had much more milage than the Celtics combined that year.

[warriorfan]

Lebron choked vs the spurs and lebron stans go “he was only 22 years old!”

Then in 2018 lebron whoops on some 19 and 20 year old kids and it’s supposed to be some sort of blood bath


lmao

[1987_Lakers]

The Celtics being without two of their All Stars in Kyrie and Hayward was a far bigger blow to Boston than anything Cleveland went through in 2018...

But the biggest thing that blew my mind was you hyping the Oladipo +125,000 odds underdogs as being better than the Cavs.

That's actually insane. :lol

Celtics were better without Kyrie. This was common knowledge back then.

[Carbine]

I find it a hard argument to make that Curry peak is "as good as anyone ever"

I watched every single game between Lebron in his general peak vs Curry in his and it was clear as day who the better player was. It was a level above for Lebron.

First 3 peat MJ you would feel that same thing if he played against Curry. Win or lose.

[Stephonit]

I find it a hard argument to make that Curry peak is "as good as anyone ever"

I watched every single game between Lebron in his general peak vs Curry in his and it was clear as day who the better player was. It was a level above for Lebron.

First 3 peat MJ you would feel that same thing if he played against Curry. Win or lose.

Did you watch everything else happening on the court while they were on it?

Steph Curry is the only player I have ever seen who could look mediocre for the majority of the game—then blast an opponent away in the space of 3 minutes.

That's why opponent's sell out to stop him.

That's why people keep complaining about his teammates being so good despite them not having a history of being as good without him.

That's why we see the winning results that we do.

[ILLsmak]

you gotta give Steph credit for changing the game. Bron changed the game in regards to his team. He took drive and kick to the next level, but Steph actually was instrumental in the game changing to just jacking 3s. As he is, by most opinions, by far the best 3 point shooter, and on volume, you have to respect it.

The thing is that there is a level of variance, so it's good to have a balance person who can get middies or score inside. That's why KD was such a great teammate.

Steph might be the GOAT in regards to impacting any team, no matter how stacked they are; anyone care to disagree?

-Smak

[HoopsNY]

LeBron on the other hand in 2018 was a one man show averaging 35/9/9 on 62 TS% & basically willing his team to the Finals. It's probably the greatest individual run I have ever witnessed.

Yea but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If 2017 is Steph's best run and KD wins FMVP, then that's a credit to Steph, not a detriment. Steph saw immense defensive attention and defaulted to KD in order to win. LeBron putting up that stat line is largely because of his teammates of a lack thereof.

His 2022 chip is immense because the Celtics had arguably one of the greatest defenses of all-time, when adjusting for eras. I think something like six Celtics players got All-Defensive or DPOY votes...some crazy 'ish like that. Steph still put up 31 PPG on 63% TS% while being guarded by one of the best man to man defenders of this era.

At the same time, my pushback to that argument from tpols would be, it took a longggg time for us to see that.

[HoopsNY]

you gotta give Steph credit for changing the game. Bron changed the game in regards to his team. He took drive and kick to the next level, but Steph actually was instrumental in the game changing to just jacking 3s. As he is, by most opinions, by far the best 3 point shooter, and on volume, you have to respect it.

The thing is that there is a level of variance, so it's good to have a balance person who can get middies or score inside. That's why KD was such a great teammate.

Steph might be the GOAT in regards to impacting any team, no matter how stacked they are; anyone care to disagree?

-Smak

I'm not completely sold on the idea, but it is one to entertain. But then we do have to consider the defensive side of the ball. The question is, does Steph's offensive impact make up for it? I'm not sure it does.

I mean, look at a guy like Hakeem, who no one ever talks about. Steph's over here getting praised for scoring 26-28 PPG while his team leverages his shooting to maximize on spacing, minus any defense at all.

Imagine Hakeem has a bunch of shooters for his entire career in an era like this while offering arguably the greatest defensive impact of all time. It really does make you wonder. He could do what Steph does on the regular while providing GOAT defense.

[dankok8]

Celtics were better without Kyrie. This was common knowledge back then.

This is false.

2018 Celtics

With Kyrie: 41-19, +4.4 MOV
Without Kyrie: 14-8, +1.5 MOV

They were noticeably better with Kyrie.

[Stephonit]

I'm not completely sold on the idea, but it is one to entertain. But then we do have to consider the defensive side of the ball. The question is, does Steph's offensive impact make up for it? I'm not sure it does.

I mean, look at a guy like Hakeem, who no one ever talks about. Steph's over here getting praised for scoring 26-28 PPG while his team leverages his shooting to maximize on spacing, minus any defense at all.

Imagine Hakeem has a bunch of shooters for his entire career in an era like this while offering arguably the greatest defensive impact of all time. It really does make you wonder. He could do what Steph does on the regular while providing GOAT defense.

Except Hakeem never made any of his teams look like a historical outlier. The impact numbers theoretically already account for the defensive side of the ball. Why then do you still think Steph's offensive impact does not make up for the defensive side? Are you applying a serious analysis or are you just grasping at straws?

You say no one is talking about Hakeem, I'd say the truth is even now no one is really talking about Steph. You see superficial reasoning over and over again. What Steph forces defenses to do is materially different from what Hakeem forces defenses to do. But I hardly ever see people acknowledge that.

[ImKobe]

I find it a hard argument to make that Curry peak is "as good as anyone ever"

I watched every single game between Lebron in his general peak vs Curry in his and it was clear as day who the better player was. It was a level above for Lebron.

First 3 peat MJ you would feel that same thing if he played against Curry. Win or lose.

Steph was so good that he didn't need to touch the ball to make his team better. Just the threat of him off-ball took the attention of the entire defense. Lebron's impact is more visible because he's always with the ball.

And then you think about prime Lebron. Teams sagged off him and gave him space because he was an inconsistent shooter. They wanted him to shoot.

[tpols]

Yea but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If 2017 is Steph's best run and KD wins FMVP, then that's a credit to Steph, not a detriment. Steph saw immense defensive attention and defaulted to KD in order to win. LeBron putting up that stat line is largely because of his teammates of a lack thereof.

His 2022 chip is immense because the Celtics had arguably one of the greatest defenses of all-time, when adjusting for eras. I think something like six Celtics players got All-Defensive or DPOY votes...some crazy 'ish like that. Steph still put up 31 PPG on 63% TS% while being guarded by one of the best man to man defenders of this era.

At the same time, my pushback to that argument from tpols would be, it took a longggg time for us to see that.

I mean what are Currys averages in the playoffs and Finals before 2022? They were still superstar level. 2016 Finals was his only "bad" series and all superstars except MJ have had at least one bad playoff series. Kobes 2004 Finals and Lebrons 2011 Finals were even worse than Currys. So 2022 domination shouldn't be a surprise. We just saw him do it again in the 2024 Olympics when Team USA was on the ropes down 17 in an elimination game.

[tpols]

This is false.

2018 Celtics

With Kyrie: 41-19, +4.4 MOV
Without Kyrie: 14-8, +1.5 MOV

They were noticeably better with Kyrie.

Boston looked awesome before he got hurt. If Hayward didn't snap his leg in half right @ the start of the season that team would've been a straight up juggernaut capable of swinging with Golden State.

[1987_Lakers]

Celtics were 37-30 with Kyrie the next season with the same cast, 12-3 without him.

Made the ECF without him, got spanked in the 2nd round with him in the line-up.

We done with Kyrie!

[Stephonit]

LeBron on the other hand in 2018 was a one man show averaging 35/9/9 on 62 TS% & basically willing his team to the Finals. It's probably the greatest individual run I have ever witnessed.

The constant drooling I see over LeBron's 2018 always has me cocking an eye brow.

The Cavaliers were favorites to take the Eastern Conference at the beginning of the year. The Oladipo Pacers had no previous track record. The Raptors theoretically should have been a solid matchup but we knew even beforehand they were mentally shook after being swept the previous year and that was even before LeBronto happened. The Celtics were led by a rookie and a sophomore. DeRozan (2nd Team) and Oladipo (3rd Team) were the only All-NBA he faced. This is the impressive run we're supposed to be impressed by? I don't get it.

In comparison in 2022 Curry on his way to the finals faced two All-NBA 1st Team in Jokic (who was also MVP) and Doncic as well as Ja Morant who was All-NBA 2nd Team. In the finals Curry met a much more experienced version of the team that brought LeBron to the brink of elimination 4 years earlier with a now All-NBA 1st Team Jayson Tatum and more All-Defensive guys than you could shake a stick at yet Curry still disposed of them in 6 games.

Curry 2022 simply looks more impressive overall and beating the Celtics who were basically a more experienced version than the one LeBron faced makes it as much of an apples to apples comparison as one can realistically get. Curry in 2022 was even roughly the same age as LeBron was in 2018.

[ImKobe]

Celtics were 37-30 with Kyrie the next season with the same cast, 12-3 without him.

Made the ECF without him, got spanked in the 2nd round with him in the line-up.

We done with Kyrie!

It's not the same cast. Hayward was terrible when he returned from injury and that alone cost them a bunch of games and made others on the team upset because they now had less minutes & touches. Celtics looked great with Kyrie in 2018 but were still good enough to get to the ECF without him.

Their Net Rating was actually better in 2019 and they were still 6th in +/-, but there clearly were chemistry issues that weren't all on Kyrie.

Also, the W/L record without Kyrie is very misleading. They played a couple 50-win teams but most of those teams that he sat out against were bad (post-Bron Cavs, Wiz, Kings, Pistons, Nets, Wolves).

[gbaLL]

goat 3 pt shooter, def

[dankok8]

Celtics were 37-30 with Kyrie the next season with the same cast, 12-3 without him.

Made the ECF without him, got spanked in the 2nd round with him in the line-up.

We done with Kyrie!

They also played a monster 60-win +8 SRS Bucks team in that 2nd round. Hayward was back and Tatum and Brown were a year older.

[ShawkFactory]

The constant drooling I see over LeBron's 2018 always has me cocking an eye brow.

The Cavaliers were favorites to take the Eastern Conference at the beginning of the year. The Oladipo Pacers had no previous track record. The Raptors theoretically should have been a solid matchup but we knew even beforehand they were mentally shook after being swept the previous year and that was even before LeBronto happened. The Celtics were led by a rookie and a sophomore. DeRozan (2nd Team) and Oladipo (3rd Team) were the only All-NBA he faced. This is the impressive run we're supposed to be impressed by? I don't get it.

In comparison in 2022 Curry on his way to the finals faced two All-NBA 1st Team in Jokic (who was also MVP) and Doncic as well as Ja Morant who was All-NBA 2nd Team. In the finals Curry met a much more experienced version of the team that brought LeBron to the brink of elimination 4 years earlier with a now All-NBA 1st Team Jayson Tatum and more All-Defensive guys than you could shake a stick at yet Curry still disposed of them in 6 games.

Curry 2022 simply looks more impressive overall and beating the Celtics who were basically a more experienced version than the one LeBron faced makes it as much of an apples to apples comparison as one can realistically get. Curry in 2022 was even roughly the same age as LeBron was in 2018.

The “run” isn’t necessarily what decides it, but rather the level of basketball Lebron was playing in 2018. It was incredibly high level.

[Carbine]

I believe that 2018 Lebron was the best version of him because he had added a post game, shooting and was just an his peak of the combination of basketball IQ, Mindset, Skills and Athleticism.

[warriorfan]

Lebron stans: “Curry didn’t face good enough competition”


Lebron stans also: “Weak competition doesn’t really matter because lebron was playing at such a high level in 2018”


:lol

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron stans: “Curry didn’t face good enough competition”


Lebron stans also: “Weak competition doesn’t really matter because lebron was playing at such a high level in 2018”


:lol

Did one person say all that? You can’t just piece together things that different people have said to create one narrative that you think is happening.

When you think about that’s about as nonsensical as it gets.

[warriorfan]

Did one person say all that? You can’t just piece together things that different people have said to create one narrative that you think is happening.

When you think about that’s about as nonsensical as it gets.

So you trying to say all the posters who are hyping lebron 2018 run in this thread have never thrown shade on Steph Curry’s runs for lack of competition. Or bringing up injuries in 2015 to try to detract from his performance?




Get the f.uck out of here with that nonsense bro. Lol.

[ShawkFactory]

So you trying to say all the posters who are hyping lebron 2018 run in this thread have never thrown shade on Steph Curry’s runs for lack of competition. Or bringing up injuries in 2015 to try to detract from his performance?




Get the f.uck out of here with that nonsense bro. Lol.

I don’t know. I haven’t read the whole thread to be honest you’d have to tell me. It just appeared as though you were quoting me.

I personally don’t much care about the “run”. Many times it’s a product of circumstance or matchups.

[SATAN]

The constant drooling I see over LeBron's 2018 always has me cocking an eye brow.

The Cavaliers were favorites to take the Eastern Conference at the beginning of the year. The Oladipo Pacers had no previous track record. The Raptors theoretically should have been a solid matchup but we knew even beforehand they were mentally shook after being swept the previous year and that was even before LeBronto happened. The Celtics were led by a rookie and a sophomore. DeRozan (2nd Team) and Oladipo (3rd Team) were the only All-NBA he faced. This is the impressive run we're supposed to be impressed by? I don't get it.

In comparison in 2022 Curry on his way to the finals faced two All-NBA 1st Team in Jokic (who was also MVP) and Doncic as well as Ja Morant who was All-NBA 2nd Team. In the finals Curry met a much more experienced version of the team that brought LeBron to the brink of elimination 4 years earlier with a now All-NBA 1st Team Jayson Tatum and more All-Defensive guys than you could shake a stick at yet Curry still disposed of them in 6 games.

Curry 2022 simply looks more impressive overall and beating the Celtics who were basically a more experienced version than the one LeBron faced makes it as much of an apples to apples comparison as one can realistically get. Curry in 2022 was even roughly the same age as LeBron was in 2018.

The real discussion is if Curry can break into the top 10. Stop kidding yourself.

[Stephonit]

The real discussion is if Curry can break into the top 10. Stop kidding yourself.

Stop kidding yourself? Ha! Say that to a mirror.

A top 10 that doesn't have Curry is instantly recognizable as not worth taking seriously.

Curry is the guy who led a team to the single season wins record, single season playoffs wins record, greatest NBA team ever, and produced what is perhaps greatest individual statistical season ever.

Might as well say Usain Bolt doesn't belong in a top 10 list of 100 meter dash runners.

[ELITEpower23]

https://fadeawayworld.net/stephen-curry-is-0-14-from-the-field-on-shots-to-take-the-lead-in-the-final-50-seconds-of-playoff-games


Now we can close thread.

OP I hope you're ok man. This is unhinged.

Little Michael has five while LeGoat has 17 :lol

And Curry has...ZERO

ZVC

[Stephonit]

Little Michael has five while LeGoat has 17 :lol

And Curry has...ZERO


Poor LeManufactured fans, they don't seem to realize that when you look at this in light of Curry's winning record that the lower number is an indication of being better and that the higher number is an indication of being worse. We just saw the US come back against Serbia and Curry pull the US away from France. Did the US need a last minute shot to win despite being 13 down at the start of the 4th? No because Curry made sure it wouldn't be necessary to chance it.

[gbaLL]

i pa$$

[Stephonit]

The question in the title of this thread is going to be answered like the one asking why Steph doesn't have an iconic playoffs moment.

[Axe]

I find it a hard argument to make that Curry peak is "as good as anyone ever"

I watched every single game between Lebron in his general peak vs Curry in his and it was clear as day who the better player was. It was a level above for Lebron.

First 3 peat MJ you would feel that same thing if he played against Curry. Win or lose.
Goes to show how much help chef has had with the dynasty. It doesn't feel that he's a true alpha even though he's usually branded as the face of his very own team.

[Stephonit]

Goes to show how much help chef has had with the dynasty. It doesn't feel that he's a true alpha even though he's usually branded as the face of his very own team.

In other words: "He's too short to be the greatest player ever!"

[Axe]

Welp, you've said it yourself. Not me. :confusedshrug: :roll:

[Stephonit]

Only emphasizes how great he is.